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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: chief1983 on April 14, 2009, 10:29:11 am

Title: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: chief1983 on April 14, 2009, 10:29:11 am
 :snipe: :snipe: :snipe:



If you've been living under a rock for 5 days (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/africa/14sniper.html?ref=global-home)
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: portej05 on April 14, 2009, 10:39:33 am
You, sir, are a sick man.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: karajorma on April 14, 2009, 12:41:24 pm
No idea how true it is but this is pretty funny. :D

(http://14.media.tumblr.com/oaDQWwRAbm98xg3mZqG8JbV2o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Flipside on April 14, 2009, 12:43:26 pm
This was actually EA testing their new DRM ;)
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Fury on April 14, 2009, 12:43:34 pm
Next up on the list; ninjas.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Knight Templar on April 14, 2009, 12:45:47 pm
:snipe: :snipe: :snipe:



If you've been living under a rock for 5 days (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/africa/14sniper.html?ref=global-home)

I lol'd.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: The E on April 14, 2009, 12:46:10 pm
Next up on the list; ninjas.

You mean this wasn't Pirates against Ninjas, Round 1?
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 14, 2009, 12:49:42 pm
Damn, looks like Obama has no intentions on changing the US attitude towards climate warming.

(http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif)

Then again, I doubt these pirates use the proper full pirate regalia, so it might not invoke the wrath of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If Mr. Obama prays for forgiveness.

We'll see.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: General Battuta on April 14, 2009, 01:17:25 pm
Apparently there was a fourth pirate from the group who was on board a US ship negotiating at the time the snipers attacked.

Wonder what he thinks.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Flipside on April 14, 2009, 01:22:55 pm
He's probably realising that the response to Piracy has been the same throughout history to be honest. It's unfortunate and underhand, but then, so is hijacking a tanker fill of innocents purely for profit.

Had this had some kind of political/attention motivation, maybe I'd have more sympathy, and it does, unfortunately, mean the lines are drawn now for future pirate negotiations, things are going to get a lot rougher out there, but to be honest, it was the only real response that America could give, whether it is now or in 5 years time, it is going to kick off.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Inquisitor on April 14, 2009, 01:34:01 pm
What does shariah law say about stealing?

Makes me wonder where the Somali pirates think they are going to get sympathy ;)

And I love that chart, kara :)
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: General Battuta on April 14, 2009, 01:36:43 pm
He's probably realising that the response to Piracy has been the same throughout history to be honest. It's unfortunate and underhand, but then, so is hijacking a tanker fill of innocents purely for profit.

Had this had some kind of political/attention motivation, maybe I'd have more sympathy, and it does, unfortunately, mean the lines are drawn now for future pirate negotiations, things are going to get a lot rougher out there, but to be honest, it was the only real response that America could give, whether it is now or in 5 years time, it is going to kick off.

Oh, I don't at all disagree with the American response -- I think it was an excellent move.

I just bet that pirate who was negotiating is glad he wasn't still on the boat!
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: The E on April 14, 2009, 01:39:39 pm
What does shariah law say about stealing?

Makes me wonder where the Somali pirates think they are going to get sympathy ;)

And I love that chart, kara :)

Yeah. Comes in handy during those correlation != causation debates. (Whether it's an argument for or against is left as an exercise for the reader).

AS for shariah law, according to wikipedia:
Quote
In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed and depending on the item of theft. However, before the punishment is executed two eyewitnesses under oath must say that they saw the person stealing. If these witnesses cannot be produced then the punishment cannot be executed.[citation needed] Witnesses must be either two men, or, if only one man can be found, one man and two women. Several requirements are in place for the amputation of hands, so the actual instances of this are relatively few[citation needed]; they are:

    * There must have been criminal intent to take private (not common) property.
    * The theft must not have been the product of hunger, necessity, or duress.
    * The goods stolen must: be over a minimum value, not haraam, and not owned by the thief's family.
    * Goods must have been taken from custody (i.e. not in a public place).
    * There must be reliable witnesses.
    * The punishment is imposed even if the thief repents. [said by the Prophet]

All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority. [Qur'an 5:38][121]
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: captain-custard on April 14, 2009, 01:42:04 pm
What does shariah law say about stealing?

Makes me wonder where the Somali pirates think they are going to get sympathy ;)

And I love that chart, kara :)

Yeah. Comes in handy during those correlation != causation debates. (Whether it's an argument for or against is left as an exercise for the reader).

AS for shariah law, according to wikipedia:
Quote
In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed and depending on the item of theft. However, before the punishment is executed two eyewitnesses under oath must say that they saw the person stealing. If these witnesses cannot be produced then the punishment cannot be executed.[citation needed] Witnesses must be either two men, or, if only one man can be found, one man and two women. Several requirements are in place for the amputation of hands, so the actual instances of this are relatively few[citation needed]; they are:

    * There must have been criminal intent to take private (not common) property.
    * The theft must not have been the product of hunger, necessity, or duress.
    * The goods stolen must: be over a minimum value, not haraam, and not owned by the thief's family.
    * Goods must have been taken from custody (i.e. not in a public place).
    * There must be reliable witnesses.
    * The punishment is imposed even if the thief repents. [said by the Prophet]

All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority. [Qur'an 5:38][121]


well no loosing limbs then , find me someone oin somalia who isnt hungry!
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Flipside on April 14, 2009, 01:44:50 pm
And yet they'd rather ransom a tanker of food than empty it?
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 14, 2009, 01:47:05 pm
I just bet that pirate who was negotiating is glad he wasn't still on the boat!

He actually wasn't still negotiating; he more or less turned himself in because he was injured and needed treatment, and advised the others to do the same. This apparently made things worse.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: captain-custard on April 14, 2009, 01:48:45 pm
And yet they'd rather ransom a tanker of food than empty it?


its a bit difficult to unload it.......at sea
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Flipside on April 14, 2009, 01:52:42 pm
Not really no, You don't need to take the containers, just the contents, take it to somewhere hidden, keep the crew under guard, ferry off the food, or at least as much as you can, and then release the crew sans a load of cargo, if this was about the food itself, that is what the sensible course would be, because you don't want people finding out who you are, you are ashamed of being a thief, but it's a matter of survival.

This was a blatant announcement of 'We are thieves and we want money', I don't think any court in the world would buy 'hunger' as a defence.

That said, I'm not entirely sure that, as relief aid, this would be considered 'private property'.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Silent Warrior on April 14, 2009, 02:00:01 pm
Herra Tohtori: You, sir, have made my day. Ramen! May your marinara be succulent! :lol:
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: maje on April 14, 2009, 04:22:58 pm
Lol, that chart is pretty funny, despite that while Obama may indeed have been the only president to authorize the use of force against pirates in recent memory, he's still a long ways from beating Thomas Jefferson's record.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Knight Templar on April 14, 2009, 07:04:44 pm
What does shariah law say about stealing?

It doesn't - not when you're stealing from the West et al. The Sharia in practice, is the law as dictated by religiously based political regimes internally, as a code of conduct regarding their own people. In this context it doesn't apply to interactions with people the extremist Muslim world sees as essentially class enemies. There's also no need to uphold any sort of mutual respect toward the Sharia, as most people found on the opposite side of it are either A) not Muslim, and thus unworthy of it from a black & white point of view, or B) aiding those who are enemies of Islam, which leads to the former.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: StarSlayer on April 14, 2009, 07:48:26 pm
I'm surprised they don't start using convoys, a lot easier to tag a tin can to protect the sheep if they're in a herd.  Trying to chase motor boats all over the bloody coast with a handful of warships will be a fools errand.  Plop one of those helicopter assault ships the Corps uses and have Whiskey Cobras chase them down and frag them.  It same strategy that broke the back of the Kiegsmarine Wolf Packs in WW2, convoys and escort carriers to provide air cover. 
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: redsniper on April 14, 2009, 09:06:56 pm
Or why don't the shipping companies just hire a few mercenaries to defend their boats? Would it not be worth it to hire a couple guys with rifles to pick off any incoming pirates?
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: IceFire on April 14, 2009, 09:45:20 pm
I'm surprised they don't start using convoys, a lot easier to tag a tin can to protect the sheep if they're in a herd.  Trying to chase motor boats all over the bloody coast with a handful of warships will be a fools errand.  Plop one of those helicopter assault ships the Corps uses and have Whiskey Cobras chase them down and frag them.  It same strategy that broke the back of the Kiegsmarine Wolf Packs in WW2, convoys and escort carriers to provide air cover. 
I think they should one up that. Send in a full carrier battlegroup.  Do what a CVBG does best and project some serious firepower in the region.  Get approval from the UN to engage pirate targets under some sort of proper rules of engagement and make it happen.  A ship gets in trouble and a pair of Super Hornets are all over it in minutes with AWACs and Sea Hawk support.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: chief1983 on April 14, 2009, 11:07:00 pm
They've been afraid that putting armed guards on the boats would put the civilians at risk.  Up til now, any hostages have been fairly well cared for, and released upon receipt of payment from the shipping company.  So, since lives weren't necessarily at risk, putting them in danger didn't seem like a good idea.  That's why I like decoys, no civilians in the way.  Just a boat full of whoopass.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Nuke on April 14, 2009, 11:31:08 pm
Or why don't the shipping companies just hire a few mercenaries to defend their boats? Would it not be worth it to hire a couple guys with rifles to pick off any incoming pirates?

isnt that kind of illegal under maritime law
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: chief1983 on April 14, 2009, 11:43:09 pm
Strictly speaking, I'm pretty sure that killing pirates isn't illegal, but not sure about the hiring mercenaries.  They could work it around on the books though.  Just list them as 'guides'.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Nuke on April 14, 2009, 11:45:04 pm
well i kinda thought i was illegal for crews of civillian ships to carry weapons. killing pirates probibly isnt illegal, so long as you use something other than a firearm in the process.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Kosh on April 14, 2009, 11:51:18 pm
Convoys guys, thats the way to go if you aren't willing to throw too many ships at the problem. If it can beat state of the art u-boats (for their time) then it can beat htese guys.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 16, 2009, 05:29:09 am
I think they should one up that. Send in a full carrier battlegroup.  Do what a CVBG does best and project some serious firepower in the region.  Get approval from the UN to engage pirate targets under some sort of proper rules of engagement and make it happen.  A ship gets in trouble and a pair of Super Hornets are all over it in minutes with AWACs and Sea Hawk support.

Just a thought.

Continous close escort via aircraft would be possible with a CVBG, but very fuel-expensive. Convoying is simply not practical as too many nations would not allow ships with their flag to be convoyed by warships of major Western nations.

On the other hand, this is exactly the sort of situation that the P-3 was designed for, but we sent most of them to the boneyard. Damn. :P
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 16, 2009, 08:17:13 am
Build a high barbed wire fence around the sides of the ships?

If nothing else it would at least make it a bit more difficult and slower for the pirates to board the ship.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Dilmah G on April 16, 2009, 08:41:55 am
Build a high barbed wire fence around the sides of the ships?

If nothing else it would at least make it a bit more difficult and slower for the pirates to board the ship.

How do people get out? In the event of an emergency, life rafts would be little use, and for clumsy crane operators....
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 16, 2009, 08:51:28 am
Either catapults or ejection seats.

I vote for catapults, since they could be used to fling stuff at the pirates too.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: TrashMan on April 16, 2009, 09:54:22 am
Or why don't the shipping companies just hire a few mercenaries to defend their boats? Would it not be worth it to hire a couple guys with rifles to pick off any incoming pirates?

isnt that kind of illegal under maritime law

Who cares? Nuke the pirates!
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Dilmah G on April 16, 2009, 09:57:11 am
Either catapults or ejection seats.

I vote for catapults, since they could be used to fling stuff at the pirates too.

Or sortie aircraft.....as the British Merchant Navy learned
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Turambar on April 16, 2009, 11:43:53 am
I propose that merchant ships contract ninjas, to combat the pirate threat.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Demitri on April 16, 2009, 12:24:53 pm
Pirates vs Ninjas. Now thats something I'd pay good money to see!  ;7
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: MP-Ryan on April 16, 2009, 12:36:32 pm
Pirates vs Ninjas. Now thats something I'd pay good money to see!  ;7

Pirates have wenches.  Ninjas don't.  Pirates win.  Next scenario.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: The E on April 16, 2009, 12:43:21 pm
Oh no...

Ninjas had every wench in existence. They just don't brag about it all day.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: General Battuta on April 16, 2009, 12:58:07 pm
Ninjas? What ninjas? There aren't any ninjas.

I mean, do you see any ninjas?
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: StarSlayer on April 16, 2009, 12:59:30 pm
Pirates vs Ninjas. Now thats something I'd pay good money to see!  ;7

Pirates have wenches.  Ninjas don't.  Pirates win.  Next scenario.

Don't ninjas have Kunoichi?  In which case they would disguise themselves as wenches then kill the pirates?
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: chief1983 on April 16, 2009, 01:53:10 pm
And then have the real wenches without interruption.
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: Mobius on November 07, 2013, 03:06:40 am
:bump:

:snipe: :snipe: :snipe:



If you've been living under a rock for 5 days (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/world/africa/14sniper.html?ref=global-home)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Phillips_(film)

Watched the movie yesterday and remembered this thread. Wow, just wow. :eek:
Title: Re: Captain Phillips Rescue Reenactment
Post by: chief1983 on November 07, 2013, 10:16:15 am
I'll admit, I completely forgot I'd posted this, so the email notification for this thread was a bit surprising.  Can't believe this was 4 and a half years ago.