Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: wEvil on March 26, 2002, 06:06:17 am
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http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2002/03/020325_CBDTPA/020325_CBDTPA.htm
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Heard about this already; it's insane, but I doubt it will pass, as it would be practically impossible to enforce such a thing.
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Originally posted by CP5670
Heard about this already; it's insane, but I doubt it will pass, as it would be practically impossible to enforce such a thing.
even if it were possible, it inhibits free will to do what you please, especially with things that are created by an individual. legally he can do whatever he wants with it. sell or for free. even if the senate passes the bill, it would have to go through the prez, then the supreme court, who i feel honestly would deem the bill UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!! :ha: !!! i love the checks and balance system... to prevent stupid arse senators who want to make up the minds of the masses with his won dumb ambitions.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin said it best!
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Well, unless people actually kick up a fuss against it the chances are it will get through.
Dont sit back and rely on the people you voted for to stop it - the amount of money being thrown their way to keep them quiet is probably astronimical.
So dont say everything will be OK, because if you do, you'll wake up in 2 years and find you can't take a crap without a "wipe your own arse" license.
or something.
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They can't stop companies from making games moddable, people like Blizzard and Valve will just find backdoors to this. And they cant stop us from distributing mods... I mean porn and warez and crackz run free throughout the internet, and they can't stop it. So pass the bill you bastards, nothings going to change.
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Originally posted by vadar_1
So pass the bill you bastards, nothings going to change.
Couldn't said that better myself. If it passes(which isn't really easy to do) it won't be enforcable, we can't even keep up with the drug trade
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Originally posted by Blue Lion
Couldn't said that better myself. If it passes(which isn't really easy to do) it won't be enforcable, we can't even keep up with the drug trade...
Indeed. :ha:
(if anyone needs a reliable server outside the US, I'll gladly provide one, for a small fee, of course...) :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Heard about this already; it's insane, but I doubt it will pass, as it would be practically impossible to enforce such a thing.
In this case? No, i wouldn't be. Not at all.
The important thing to remember about this act is that it requires manufacturers to reengineer existing hardware to only allow you to copy what they deem is appropriate to be copied. This means that in the future, should this bill pass, you won't even be able to use a normal telivision to get normal television signals, as it won't have the appropriate digital rights management (copy protection) hardware in it to decode them.
You would have to replace your hard drives, modems, cable/dsl terminals, etc. Only machines that can report proper hardware IDs will be able to connect to the internet. You'll still be able to dial up to the internet via an international long distance call, of course, but who is going to pay for that?
Deep Eyes mentioned that such a bill would have to make it past Congress, the President and the Supreme Court. In this, he is wrong. A bill, once ratified by the Congress can be vetoed by the President, but the Congress can overturn that Veto should they muster a strong majority. Not that this is likely to happen since the current administration is very much behind big business. The MPAA and the RIAA and Disney and the rest 0wnz them. Once the President signs it, *BAM* its a law and there's nothing the Supreme Court can do about it unless someone challenges it. Even then, they can rule that copying someone else's work does not violate free speech protections (copying DVD movies across the internet hardly meets the criteria for 'fair use', does it?). Your files, your data, etc, would still be under your control, as you would have the 'keys' to copy it. You could freely distribute it. You just wouldn't be able to hook up a friend with a copy of 'Who let the Shivan's Out? (Carl's Mad Mix)'.
The article's comment about Game modding is FALSE. Game modding, with the support of the company would still be perfectly legal. Iw2 modders would have no problem. Starcraft modders might be screwed.
Linux/*BSD/Other free operating systems, however, would be ****ed. As the industry would have no way to ensure that such OSs included hardware support for their copy protection crap. As such, they would be considered 'circumvention' devices and would have to be made illegal.
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All this means only one thing: if it passes, it'll suck to live in the US. This time I'll be thankful for the majority of free-speech supporters, open source lovers, half-communists in Brazilian congress.
There's also the fact that there's No Way In Hell™ that the hardware companies will abide to this, because they will be forced to rebuild all their foundries and factories just to make a product that noone wants to buy - and they'll probably start focusing a lot more on the outside-US market, that won't have such stupid restrictions and will be a whole lot more profitable because of that.
And how long will it take for people to start using satellite uplinks to other countries around the US to get unrestricted access to the net? I can get that kind of stuff right now if I want, and I'd surely do it if something like that came to happen. This stuff will just screw the US hardware and internet markets, with negligible gains for the movie and record industries. Those guys are Dumb, with a capital D...
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Originally posted by Styxx
There's also the fact that there's No Way In Hell? that the hardware companies will abide to this, because they will be forced to rebuild all their foundries and factories just to make a product that noone wants to buy - and they'll probably start focusing a lot more on the outside-US market, that won't have such stupid restrictions and will be a whole lot more profitable because of that.
You must have missed the changes IBM and some others wanted to put into hard drives a year or two ago. Basicly, you could not reinstall your OS without the hard drive manufacturer's and the OS company's permission. Oh, and copying files to other media? Nope. Wasn't happening. This WAS from the hardware companies, not the media companies.
And how long will it take for people to start using satellite uplinks to other countries around the US to get unrestricted access to the net? I can get that kind of stuff right now if I want, and I'd surely do it if something like that came to happen. This stuff will just screw the US hardware and internet markets, with negligible gains for the movie and record industries. Those guys are Dumb, with a capital D...
Sattelite uplinks will become illegal, just like the cable modems, etc. Welcome to the all new, more secure, anti-terrorist America! Now 99% freedom free! Yeah baby.
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That would indeed suck. America will become the only country where you don't have full freedom of speech in the Internet...
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Land of the free indeed. Are you sure this is true and not some joke?
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I think it has to do something with disney :mad2: :mad2:
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Originally posted by Zeronet
Land of the free indeed. Are you sure this is true and not some joke?
If this is a joke, perhaps Senator Ernest F. Hollings needs to be informed? Read his speech on the bill to congress. (http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/hollings.cbdtpa.release.032102.html) He doesn't seem to think its a joke. Notice how all of this garbage is predicated on the idea that it will help convince consumers to ADOPT HIGH DEFINITION TELEVISION. Yeah. So, make our computers garbage so that we can watch really high resolution garbage. Hollings, you can blow me.
Hannibal over at Ars Technica (http://www.arstechnica.com) pointed out the logical incongruity in Hollings' speech, as illustrated by these two paragraphs:
Unfortunately, as technology has advanced, copy protection schemes have not kept pace, fostering a set of consumer expectations that at times actually promote illegal activity on the Internet. For example, according to a Jupiter Media Matrix report, over 7 million Americans use technology on the Internet to swap music and other digital media files. More recent news reports place this number at over 11 million... Every week a major magazine or newspaper reports on the thousands of illegal pirated works that are available for copying and redistribution online. Academy award winning motion pictures, platinum records, and Emmy award winning television shows ? all for free, all illegal. Piracy is growing exponentially on college campuses and among tech savvy consumers.
(translation: The Net is flooded with high definition digital content that consumers want)
At the same time, millions of law abiding consumers find little reason to spend discretionary dollars on consumer electronics products whose value depends on their ability to receive, display and copy high quality digital content like popular movies, music, and video games. Accordingly, only early adopters have purchased high definition television sets or broadband Internet access, as these products remain priced too high for the average consumer. The facts are clear in this regard. Only two million Americans have purchased HDTV sets. As for broadband, rural and underserved areas aside, there is not an availability problem. There is a demand problem. Roughly 85% of Americans are offered broadband in the marketplace but only 10-12% have signed up. The fact is that most Americans are averse to paying $50 a month for faster access to email, or $2000 for a fancy HDTV set that plays analog movies. But if more high-quality content were available, consumer interest would likely increase.
By unleashing an avalanche of digital content on broadband Internet connections as well as over the digital broadcast airwaves, we can change this dynamic and give consumers a reason to buy new consumer electronics and information technology products. To do so requires the development of a secure, protected environment to foster the widespread dissemination of digital content in these exciting new mediums.
(translation: there is not high definition digital content on the internet, so people won't buy broadband or HGTV)
WHAT?! Which is it you moronic media mouthpiece? Obviously, we're not supposed to notice he's a tool.
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Haha, stupid american. He's a puppet, i bet this would annoy Kazan a great deal. As mircosoft would benefit greatly, no more linux.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
Haha, stupid american. He's a puppet, i bet this would annoy Kazan a great deal. As mircosoft would benefit greatly, no more linux.
Well no more Linux in the US, which I could probably get behind. ;) But it would also mean no more FreeBSD, which is a truly bad thing.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Well no more Linux in the US, which I could probably get behind. ;) But it would also mean no more FreeBSD, which is a truly bad thing.
Im not a fan of linux either.
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but would you rather see M$ rule the world?
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well, then, we'll just have to rock the system!!!!!!!!YAHOOO!!!!!!!:D
Naw, just kidding, but, still, if this goes through, they will have to turn the U.S. into a communist state to enforce it, after all, we simply have to use the web, and they can't take that down, unless they manage to get every single server on this planet, if I remember correctly....
So, basically, it's one of those things that can't be enforced.
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Originally posted by PhReAk
but would you rather see M$ rule the world?
Actually, Microsoft has opposed this bill, if my memory serves.
But we don't need Linux to counter microsoft. We just need a horde of Daemons. Like FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD. :D
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Hack the Matrix is what I say...
euhm, now they're after me!
*runs*
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Actually, you'd better believe they WILL be able to enforce it. It'll be yet another "political" crime, like marijuana laws, that exist largely so that cops can convieniently round up dissidents and other annoying characters and put them in prison for a long, long time without ever admitting to the real reason they're doing it. Something the Bush government really wants, in fact needs, now. Since it's virtually impossible not to violate it (file sharing? As in, what HLP was founded on? Abandonware? Perhaps you wouldn't be affected, but I know a good thousand HOTUers who would), if you have an opinion that differs from the government-approved one and say so, you're basically screwed. Someone had a petition out a while ago; I'll see if I can find it. But let me just say that, should this thing pass... you're ****ed, you're ****ed, and YOU'RE ****ed. I'm certainly ****ed, unless I can get out of the country somehow, which I plan to do as soon as possible...
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But democracy was founded on the people, so, if [enough] people say no to this, then they can't do it, without defying our constitutional rights.
Now, they can ignore this, but too many ppl. file share, up to and including the heavy players, like M$, Redhat, and the others.
I mean, that's what makes this country great! So, if this happens, there'll be so many demonstrations, your head'll spin!
Or, well, Americans will stay complacent, lazy, etc.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm just an optimist:(
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Er...
1. America is not a democracy
2. Like marijuana, any legal protest will be dismissed as the product of so many criminal ultra-leftist creeps, and ignored by the public. Any real protest will result in the arrests of leading demonstrators.
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well..to go all philosophical -
theres a sortof balance between what corporates/govornments and insitutions want and what individuals want.
Obviously you cant please everyone all the time but its my honest feeling the former are being "pleasured" far more than the latter.
Time to rip the system and get that pendulum swinging the other way, IMO.
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Originally posted by Unkown Target
But democracy was founded on the people, so, if [enough] people say no to this, then they can't do it, without defying our constitutional rights.
Now, they can ignore this, but too many ppl. file share, up to and including the heavy players, like M$, Redhat, and the others.
I mean, that's what makes this country great! So, if this happens, there'll be so many demonstrations, your head'll spin!
Or, well, Americans will stay complacent, lazy, etc.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm just an optimist:(
If you're implying the USA is a democracy, you're not an optimist, you're grossly misinformed. We are a republic, a representative democracy. We do not vote on our laws. We elect people to vote on those laws. Unfortunately, a republican system requires that the elected body be advised by its constituents. Guess which constituents are able to do the most advising by 'virtue' of the fact that they have more money? Corporations and organisations of corporations.
People like the RIAA and MPAA have ridiculous amounts of money to throw around and pressure legislation like this onto the floor of Congress. Not content to milk you and me and everyone else for 2600% profit on CD or DVD we buy, now they wish to ensure that profit by removing our ability to do legitimate things on the grounds that we MAY do illegitimate things.
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...Don't get me started on the government...I'll only end up using bad words that hurt children's ears. :D
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And you peeps wonder why I like anarchy so much.
I hope that the bill goes through. It'll bring to light just how readily computer users will fight for free information and how far they're willing to go. Anything like Linux would immediately become based in another country. And 3 months before the first copy protection system is available to the public it will have been ripped to pieces and patches will be available for all afflicted machines. Things like this can only help to illustrate just how easy it is to get people who know nothing about each other to stand side by side and fight American oppression.
To Summarise: Anything like this acts copy protection thingy would be ass raped before release and would only show how superior the internet people are to the government peeps.
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I get the feeling Democracy is dying (very slowly) in America.
Dictatorship->Revolution->Democracy->Dictatorship->Revolution->Democracy
In a place like America the deterioration is inevitable. People take freedom for granted and do not oppose moves by the government toward a dictatorship. I don't think in Britan there are many people who want power like the corporations in America do, or have the influence over officials the way Mega-Cs do.
If they pass this, it will be like prohibition all over again. Everybody will violate it, even the people who made it. And I bet you internet crime will rise.
In other words, HLP the modding speakeasy!
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And 3 months before the first copy protection system is available to the public it will have been ripped to pieces and patches will be available for all afflicted machines.
Exactly. Not only that, but just about everyone will use these patches and cracks. The police can't round up the whole nation, even if they had some way of detecting who was using the patches and who was not. (remember what happened when they tried to ban certain drugs in the 1930s?)
I think you all are making too much of a big deal of this issue; the chances of this bill actually passing are next to nil. Every nation has its idiots and quacks; the US has this man Hollings. They usually make a lot of ruckus temporarily without actually getting anywhere, and after a while they lose whatever little support they had and pass out of history. Yeah, this law can be enforced if they put vast amounts of money into doing so, but with this anti-terrorism surge, the government has other things on its list of priorities. If corporations were actually supporting this, then I would be more worried, as they have the money to bribe politicians. It seems that many corporations are against this as well, though, since they would have to re-engineer all of their existing hardware and software, which would cost some money. As it stands now, there is not much to worry about in my opinion.
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Microsoft vs. Blizzard
Intel vs. Sierra
Now thats something I'd pay money to see.
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Nah, more like this:
Republic -> Revolution -> Dictatorship -> Multiple Revolutions -> Fragmented City-states and regional dictatorships/monarchies, all vying for control of natural resources
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Nah, more like this:
Republic -> Revolution -> Dictatorship -> Multiple Revolutions -> Fragmented City-states and regional dictatorships/monarchies, all vying for control of natural resources
->war->Democracy(Republic)->(war->)Dictatorship
Who needs Word Association when you've got this!
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Lets put it in there! You can link just about anything to any other thing in that thread anyway... :D
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Lets hope you're sarcastic
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Originally posted by CP5670
I think you all are making too much of a big deal of this issue; the chances of this bill actually passing are next to nil. Every nation has its idiots and quacks; the US has this man Hollings. They usually make a lot of ruckus temporarily without actually getting anywhere, and after a while they lose whatever little support they had and pass out of history
If corporations were actually supporting this, then I would be more worried, as they have the money to bribe politicians.
Yeah, but see, Hollings is just one of several Senators behind this bill in this form. it used to be SSSCA before it became this lovely little piece of tripe.
As for the corporations, it DOES have corporate backing. Time-Warner backed it at one point (And may still), DISNEY is behind it, and the RIAA and MPAA are behind it. We're not talking about little people here. We're talking about the most of your large media companies with interest/holdings/money in the United States.
They do have the money. They got the DMCA through, didn't they? Besides anything else, in this era of paranoia and the government being rather pro-corporation right now AND the government being quite willing to pass half-considered draconian bull**** measures (PATRIOT act anyone), yeah, I am very much worried that **** like this will pass.
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Ahhh yes...only in America.
*waves Canadian flag* :D
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www.standonguard.com
People are not that nice without planning something....Be very wary of Canadia :D
and yes I know ;)
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I'm not too worried, Mocrosoft is against this, and MS will kidnap Disney's CEO's family, hack the MPAA bank acound, buy the RIAA, and plant a nuke in the senit's floor, for once I'm happy that mosnter is still lose. I mean there is no way even all the media companys combind could stand in an all out war againsed MS, I mean that would be like the USA vs Iraq, and we all know how that will end.
if you're realy worried about it wright to you're congressman, organise a million nerd march, or better yet call Bill O'reily, he hates the government-corperation aliance, and he loves finding some major story the other news networks won't run becase there under there parent companies thumb,
anything to make himself and\or FoxNews look better.
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Mmm... no luck with the petitions today. I'll try later.
And can we stop using the word democracy until we have the slightest understanding of what it means? There have been semi-democratic governments- the US government is not one, nor does the government claim to be one, except through the mouths of fools and propogandists. See, I actually used to believe in the idea of installing a democratic movement, but gave it up because it's simply impossible to set up through revolution, and no government's gonna hand over power to the people of its own accord. Suffice it to say, you can safely rule out anything that's happened since a few hundred years BC outside of some experimental utopian colonies who got obliterated by the government and several other aggressors as being democratic. Including the Democratic party, anyone who uses the phrase "preserving democracy", etc.;)
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I'm not sure if I laugh or I cry. It's sad to see such stupidity in people - specially in governants. I foresee lots of people leaving the USA in the near future, if that thing actually passes...
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...only to get screwed just as badly when the US decides to really start getting imperialistic. Hopefully, (it's a long shot, unfortunately, what with the current propoganda machine), Bush won't get reelected and that won't happen. But the two WILL come hand-in-hand...
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If that passes I'm moving to either Europe (probably Ireland) or Canada after I finish college.... Probably Canada, considering they're closer.
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Originally posted by HeX
Ahhh yes...only in America.
*waves Canadian flag* :D
I wouldn't do that for too long. You guys might be pressured to do it next.
Personally, I'll be moving overseas if this does come to pass. I've got a few buddies I can stay with if need be.
I flat out refuse to obey this law. There is no way they can enforce it. Hell, they can't even envorce the DMCA for crying out loud! I'd love to see them try to make me obey it. They'd have to call the frelling swat team to get past my dogs let alone get in my room.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Mmm... no luck with the petitions today. I'll try later.
Ohh, you mean this:
http://www.petitiononline.com/SSSCA/petition.html
:)
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Mmm... no luck with the petitions today. I'll try later.
And can we stop using the word democracy until we have the slightest understanding of what it means? There have been semi-democratic governments- the US government is not one, nor does the government claim to be one, except through the mouths of fools and propogandists. See, I actually used to believe in the idea of installing a democratic movement, but gave it up because it's simply impossible to set up through revolution, and no government's gonna hand over power to the people of its own accord. Suffice it to say, you can safely rule out anything that's happened since a few hundred years BC outside of some experimental utopian colonies who got obliterated by the government and several other aggressors as being democratic. Including the Democratic party, anyone who uses the phrase "preserving democracy", etc.;)
Actually the soviets did it before they became the Soviets (note the capital S). For a short time every village and every city had multiple soviets (people's-assemblies) where every citizen had a say. It was dismantled faster than you could say: 'The USSR is not a real Communist State'
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Anyway: if this gets through it will effectively kill all pc-use that's not bussiness related. Thus making everything pc-related irrelevant ---> millions and millions of jobless.
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Only in the US. Im glad country is not a S but a K for UK.
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Crazy Ivan: Exactly. Absolute Democracy entails a political weakness people always seem more than willing to take advantage of- its other major flaw.
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Socialist states, republics, parliamentary republics with figurehead monarchs..... Why can't anything be what it says it is? In the dark ages you had a feudalistic system. That's what they claimed to be. And they didn't claim to be 'compassionate conservatives'.
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As far as Britain goes... I live there so I'm well aware that the UK is americas *****. If this goes down then you can bet the british government with a minor amount of pressure will back it.
mikhael, I think you're being a little extremist. Your argument is well founded but lets face it, if they attempt to f**k the free information loving PC users of the world i.e. 99.999999 percent of us then we will simply find a way around it. Microcontrollers are reprogrammable. Software can be cracked, hacked and made to do whatever we see fit. Piracy won't be a crime anymore, it'll be a necessity that most PC users will be guilty of and I'll be hanging out with an0n supplying 'warez' to the masses.
Who afterall is going to sit back and let a greedy few steal our freedom?
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This blasted bill passes and im going to Europe...the shear gall of these people, jeeze, no more internet privacy. As for Microsoft buying the RIAA, LOL, thats just the kind of thing you expect from microsoft. Let the monster kill the monster.
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99.999999 percent of us then we will simply find a way around it. Microcontrollers are reprogrammable. Software can be cracked, hacked and made to do whatever we see fit. Piracy won't be a crime anymore, it'll be a necessity that most PC users will be guilty of and I'll be hanging out with an0n supplying 'warez' to the masses.
Exactly, and the police won't be able to do a thing about it, because they will have no way of detecting who is obeying the law and who isn't, and even if they did, they cannot arrest the whole country. :p
If the bill passes, I won't be moving anywhere; I will just disregard it and use whatever hacks I can find, as will 99% of the population. (hey I already use w-word stuff) As I said earlier though, the chance of such a thing passing are so incredibly small (no enforcement possible) that there's really no need to make contingency plans right now.
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I think it's another one of the signs of the Apocalypse. Lemme get my anti-hellfire shelter ready... :p
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This is for real? :eek::eek::jaw::jaw:
If that's true, I'm going to Europe with Narol...
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this way our IT shortage will be solved fast :p
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
If that passes I'm moving to either Europe (probably Ireland) or Canada after I finish college.... Probably Canada, considering they're closer.
Don't think that you can so easily escape.
As some of the people behind this are the manufacturers of the computers that are used the world 'round, you're likely going to be out of luck. The same sorts of parts will likely end up distributed globally. It only makes financial sense for the manufacturers to not sell crippled lines and uncrippled lines. Besides that, some of these companies would have to relocate out of the US to avoid coming under the jurisdiction of these laws.
If this passes in the US and is not successfully challenged, it will spread all over the world by fait accompli. Other countries will get hardware that meets american legal requirements.
What really needs to happen is that people that live in countries allied to the US need to pressure their governements to pressure the US government. There have been several instances in the last decade where Britain has successfully lobbied the US to not pass laws that would affect European interests as a side effect. If such action were combined with stateside pressure from soon to be guilty-and-can't-ever-be-innocent US citizens, this proposal would never make it through.
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Britians different to US, only one party calls the shots, better that way, cos if they do something you dont like, you dont vote for them. It wont spread, American isnt the be all and end all.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
It wont spread, American isnt the be all and end all.
No. It isn't, an no one implied it was. However, companies that do business in the US have to abide by US law. Further, since some of the companies that have sponsored this little catastrophe are international AND are the ones manufacturing the hardware (certain consumer electronics copmanies comes to mind, don't forget this isn't 'just' computers), they will use this as an excuse to support one productline. Thus, TVs the world over will end up having the same content control hardware.
They, the people who are behind this stupidity, are global. Thus, to say "It won't spread," is wishful thinking at best. Tell me, is your vcr a Betamax or VHS unit?
If people weren't worrying about such a thing spreading or affecting people outside the US, then why did a Brit bring the whole thing up anyway? There is a definate legitimate concern.
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About the SSSCA (Security Systems Standards and Certification Act), which was never drafted as legilation, but is the basis of this newer bill:
...it would be illegal to create or distribute “any interactive digital device that does not include and utilize certified security technologies” approved by the Commerce Department...
This, of course, goes hand-in-hand with the DMCA (for those unfamiliar, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act allows a content producer to order a content provider to remove 'infringing material' with no question asked. The DMCA has been used to shutdown 'infringing' websites in Europe, btw). Of course, this has a wonderful side effect. To sell any consumer electronics product in the United States, manufacturers will have to comply with US law. This can be used to keep foreign competitors out of the US market.
Another fun little detail in the SSSCA was that it calls for media corporations and digital device manufacturers to cooperate and develop a copy protection scheme. If one cannot be agreed upon within two years time, the federal government would mandate one. What's wrong with tihs, you might ask? Content creators (artists, writers, singers, musicians, GAME DEVELOPERS) are not in on the specification. They don't get any input. Zero. Zilch. None. Way to protect the rights of the people.
Of course, this year, the Honorable Fritz Hollings (D-South Carolina) brought out his lovely little hammer, the CBDTPA (Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Protection Act). He brought along with him five cronies: Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), John Breaux (D-Louisiana), Bill Nelson (D-Florida) and Dianne Feinstein (D-California). The lovely thing about this bill? Its SSSCA with some addons and a nice little smokescreen (the broadband/digital-television thing). Now everything digital has to be 'secured'. Fax machines, MP3 players, computers, software, the television, the vcr, the DVD player, your radio, your cellular phone, your pager, your printer, your PDA, your hard drive, your digital camera, your--heck, lets just say 'anything that can store and carry data in any form, be it read or write'.
Isn't that lovely? It means that Particle Systems has to write games that work with these copyright protection systems--else they can't sell in the US. Funny, I didn't think that a British game company--who is neither subject to US law nor party to making them--would be affected, because this stuff "won't spread". Most major content producer, to include game companies, enjoys the United States as one of its biggest sources of revenue. Most anyone smaller than a major corporation cannot get in on this to make or modify or use these laws to their advantage. Smaller content producers (like Particle Systems) will not be able to sell products in one of their major markets without joining up as a part of a corporation (Volition and Interplay anyone?). Doing so, they will lose the rights to their own products (Freespace, anyone?).
In Europe, I believe originally from France, content producers (those writers and artists and programmers and singers and songwriters and musicians I mentioned earlier) have so-called 'moral rights'. Even should a content creator give up his legal copyright, he or she still has certain rights to that content. Among these, and perhaps the most important, is the 'right of integrity'. Basically, the right of integrity means that anything that includes a piece of cannot be distorted in anyway that could harm the artist's reputation. 'Copy protected CDs' are an example of this, since the 'protect' the music by adding actual acoustic distortions that will prevent it being copied.
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And then some American politicians still don't understand why tens of thousands of people protest at WTO or G8 meetings, or why nutcase fanaitcs are bent on flying planes into buildings.
This thing, if it's true, is nothing more than the most blatant exponent of global imperialism on an interplanetary scale.
If it's true and it passes... the US should expect troubles, big troubles.
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Well, nobody is going to obey it and it could not be enforced, so it will just turn into a joke like the drug restrictions thing did back in the 1930s...
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Still, I can't believe the US would vote something like this into law. It would kill of your most vibrant industry faster than you can say "Relocate to China"
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Let the monster kill the monster.
[badly-dubbed-japanese-movie-voice]With Mothra here we will surely die......Oh no. Wait! Here come Godzilla. He wil surely save us from Mothra.[/badly-dubbed-japanese-movie-voice]
C'n you say 'hackers ****in' over ev'ry gov'rm'nt computer in th' US'? I know y' can.
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Hackers of the world, Unite!
*Starts the Hackers Internationale*
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Originally posted by CP5670
Well, nobody is going to obey it and it could not be enforced, so it will just turn into a joke like the drug restrictions thing did back in the 1930s...
CP, I don't think you're paying attention. Your compliance is not required. The equipment manufacturer's compliance is required. Microsoft's compliance is required. Gamespy.com's compliance is required. Yours? Not at all.
If this bill passes, your compliance become a fait accompli. At some point, you will not be able to buy a hard drive, motherboard, monitor, printer, television, radio, firewall, modem, cable/dsl terminal/router etc that doesn't have the copy-prevention systems BUILT IN. In hardware, not software, where you can't turn it off without mangling your brand new hardware.
Why asks the users to comply with something when you take the choice completely out of their hands? Heck, if you want to force it, its pretty easy. Guess who one of the big backers is? Time-Warner (as in Time-Warner, one of the biggest cable/broadband providers in the US). All they have to do is change their system so that you can't get cable without a TV that has copy-prevention technology. You wouldn't be able to tape things to your VCR without a VCR with copy-prevention technology. You would be unable to watch or tape a TV show without the express permission of Time-Warner. Even better, Time-Warner, by the letter of the law, would be required to make this change..
Groovy, yeah? Now consider that we're not talking about just Time-Warner, or Disney. That already includes AOL, and then there's Sony and all its friends and neighbors (who make most of your consumer electronics and computer parts).
The inmates will be literally running the asylum. These corporations will be the ones that must abide by the rules of their own making. Your opinion and compliance does not matter after the fact. Your opinion only matters NOW, before the fact.
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Hmmmm. Methinks every computer retailer and manufacturing company world-wide would collapse. I'm guessing around half the computer using people's of the world would turn to the black-market to get un-fux0red hardware. And with Turkey being the only place nearby that says '**** You' to all the international copy-right laws, their economy would skyrocket from producing un-fux0red gear.
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*The corporations backing this deal shall fall to the headz. :headz:*
Now that's over with, there is no way this bill will pass. Think of the protest. Its gonna be harware companies(for) vs. software companies(against).
Guess who's gonna win. Remember the Democrats control the Senate now. Software everytime. NO ONE has more influence than Microsoft (looks like the decision to not split them was a mixed blessing after all). Not AOL, not Time Warner, not Disney, not anyone.
And I question whether companies like Intel would support this.
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If this bill passes, your compliance become a fait accompli. At some point, you will not be able to buy a hard drive, motherboard, monitor, printer, television, radio, firewall, modem, cable/dsl terminal/router etc that doesn't have the copy-prevention systems BUILT IN. In hardware, not software, where you can't turn it off without mangling your brand new hardware.
Well, the software hackers have repeatedly proven that their efforts are far superior to those of corporations; they could quite easily extend their efforts to hardware as well, and I bet there would be guides and walkthrough all over the internet on how to remove the protection a few hours after the first products with the stuff are released. Although it is significantly harder to modify hardware than software, it still can be done if precise instruments are used and the expertise is there. It would be hard for an average consumer to do, but these things are done by people with experience and are readily available on black markets. (heck, you can already find modified hardware through these places)
And, if all else fails, we would still have the older hardware without any of this in it. The sales of the new products would be much lower than those of the old ones since some of the people would refuse to buy anything with the copy protection when they already own items without it, and modified versions of the new items are sold cheap through illegal channels. At some point, corporations will be doing so poorly that some will just outright refuse to obey the law, and release their products without the copyirght stuff anyway. The government could stamp down a few companies, but a "domino effect" would incite others to ignore the law as well. It would essentially be a repeat of the drug-ban law and would fall to pieces soon.
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Originally posted by CP5670
Well, the software hackers have repeatedly proven that their efforts are far superior to those of corporations; they could quite easily extend their efforts to hardware as well, and I bet there would be guides and walkthrough all over the internet on how to remove the protection a few hours after the first products with the stuff are released. Although it is significantly harder to modify hardware than software, it still can be done if precise instruments are used and the expertise is there. It would be hard for an average consumer to do, but these things are done by people with experience and are readily available on black markets. (heck, you can already find modified hardware through these places)
And, if all else fails, we would still have the older hardware without any of this in it. The sales of the new products would be much lower than those of the old ones since some of the people would refuse to buy anything with the copy protection when they already own items without it, and modified versions of the new items are sold cheap through illegal channels. At some point, corporations will be doing so poorly that some will just outright refuse to obey the law, and release their products without the copyirght stuff anyway. The government could stamp down a few companies, but a "domino effect" would incite others to ignore the law as well. It would essentially be a repeat of the drug-ban law and would fall to pieces soon.
You're missing the point. You can ignore the law all you want. When your TV doesn't work with the new cable system or you can't copy play a CDR in your car CD player, or you can't connect to the internet because your provider has switched to the new modem standard mandated by law and you haven't, you'll be locked out. You'll have to 'upgrade' to compliant hardware or do without. You, however, are not important.
My mother, like most people's mothers, and my father, like most people's fathers, will just accept it. Joe Average consumer in this country does not care. Consider the 'copy protected CDs' that have been released. Where is the public outcry? Where is the consumer complaint? Strictly limited to the fringes: geeks and audiophiles. Not Joe Average consumer.
Even better, Joe Average consumer will be behind laws like this. Why? Because DISNEY will tell them that it is a good law. What good family-oriented consumer doesn't think that Disney can do any wrong? Everyone, especially parents LOVES Disney. Everyone, especially parents, TRUSTS Disney. Many of these consumers just won't care because, after all, they don't copy mp3s or dupe CDs or worry about duping a rented DVD to a video tape. Other consumers will get behind this and cheer it on because "only criminals would want to prevent something like this! We must protect the artists!" (despite the fact that laws like this do not protect the artists in any way, only the distribution corporations).
It gets better STILL. Mr. Vega contends that such a bill could not get past the Democratically controlled Senate. Perhaps he did not look carefully: CDTBBA is a Democrat sponsored bill. It promotes and protects corporations. Republicans are historically pro-BigBusiness. Who is left to disagree? The Libertarians? Sorry, there's not enough left over to prevent a simple majority.
The meat of the issue is not this bill but this bill combined with the DMCA. With the two combined running Linux is a felony. Not a civil offense, but a criminal one. Modifying a system to allow content duplication is a felony. Buying or selling modified systems is a felony.
To recap:
- Most consumers will not care
- The rules are made by the people who have to abide by it
- Circumventing the rules is a criminal offense
- Only the fringe cares
Sorry. There is no way--no way at all--that you can convince me that this should be ignored or that it won't be enforceable. This is not the drug war. This is almost the opposite. This is almost as if the drug laws were being made by the Columbian drug lords.
Like I said, the inmates will be running the asylum.
We must do something about this before hand, before it passes to prevent it from passing.
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Originally posted by mikhael
We must do something about this before hand, before it passes to prevent it from passing.
*through megaphones*
Okay people this is it, we're starting our fight for freedom. Our first tarkget: Capitol Hill.
All Stealth bombers are to be deployed covered by airsupport. The remaining fighters will strike at nearby airfields to supress hostile forces...
*goes on*