Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Galemp on March 26, 2002, 09:39:27 am
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Hello all...
Port staffer and resident modeler DTP is literally flying through the model work that needs to be done. His current project is a shielded Lucifer, something done by Inferno ages ago, but now much better. Here's the progress so far, never mind the shield color:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/working/lucyshield.jpg)
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Try and do something original and unique with the color, like making the shields black. After all, the Lucifer had vewy, vewy special shields.
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Originally posted by an0n
Try and do something original and unique with the color, like making the shields black. After all, the Lucifer had vewy, vewy special shields.
....black....:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Hello all...
Port staffer and resident modeler DTP is literally flying through the model work that needs to be done. His current project is a shielded Lucifer, something done by Inferno ages ago, but now much better. Here's the progress so far, never mind the shield color:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/working/lucyshield.jpg)
hey, while he's at it, he could add all the missing spikes on the Luci, no? :p
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and maybe those glowing moving things on the side of it in that command breifing! It also needs to be immune to bad humor... I dont know how you will accomplish that...
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If I remember correctly, the Lucy's shields weren't visible, but more along the lines of right up against the hull. Similiar to StarWars shields.
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actually, it didn't have shields, just the invincible tag...
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Originally posted by venom2506
actually, it didn't have shields, just the invincible tag...
Grr, try to think of what would have happened dude, and not state obvious things like that. We know it was just invincable, but hes saying that the Lucifer's shields is right up against the hull, not the poor lack of programming done on [V]s part.
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that's my point: I think it would have been a big bubble like for any other ship, why would it be different? making a shield that conforms to a ship, that must not be easy :p
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Originally posted by venom2506
making a shield that conforms to a ship, that must not be easy :p
The previous shielding attemt was just a big bubble that didn't even surround the ship, and it looked hideous. DTP confirms that no, it is not easy, particularly around the spikey turrets. This shield, like every other shield, will only be visible where you shoot at it. The picture only shows the mesh, not the final result.
By the way, those textures are from Freespace 1, which is why they look so dandy. :)
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lol, I meant the real shield :)
the shield for my NGTA ships conforms too ( tho not so closely).
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That looks quite cool. :nod:
By the way is it possible to fly through a shield mesh if there is too much space between the shield and the ship's hull? Or does it just act like a wall?
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Hrm, I want Fulgrymm's new Lucifer.. :(
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Originally posted by venom2506
that's my point: I think it would have been a big bubble like for any other ship, why would it be different? making a shield that conforms to a ship, that must not be easy :p
Yes, it was the invincible tag, and as for it being easy:it would actually probably be doable for the Shivans. The Lucifer's shield is more advanced than that of any other. Perhaps that is why you've only seen 1 Lucy? ;7 (Duh.)
The point, is that the shield would be compiled and spread out through several generators which would only emit a high level field AROUND and AGAINST the hull. I think it's actually better for the Lucy to not have the 'traditional' shields. I think that capships that do have shields like fighters do, probably use an impractical design. (I know, it looks cool, and it's fun, but. . .speaking from a realistic FS universe point of view.) Fighters have shields based off of small generators, which are likely too small to generate the advanced form of Lucy shields.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Port staffer and resident modeler DTP is literally flying through the model work that needs to be done.
No he isn't. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
No he isn't. :rolleyes:
Yes he is! He is -flying- through space in a Ulysses -through- (a la Karnak) the models that he is working on. So there! :ha:
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Not bad. Though it looks more like a Terran invention than a Shivan.
How 'bout a few spikes or depressions in it, make it look more organic? Spline curves or whatever they're called- curve up into the point. Look schoveet.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Not bad. Though it looks more like a Terran invention than a Shivan.
How 'bout a few spikes or depressions in it, make it look more organic? Spline curves or whatever they're called- curve up into the point. Look schoveet.
You... don't know... about... the SD Lucifer... :eek: :confused: :jaw: :mad2: :doubt:
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I was referring to the shields. If I thought that wasn't damned obvious, considering I've been here for over an hour, I'd have mentioned something about the ship.:p
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Oh... okay...
Actually the shield is supposed to conform to the shape of the ship. I don't think shield bits and pieces sticking out willy-nilly would enhance it at all.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
I was referring to the shields. If I thought that wasn't damned obvious, considering I've been here for over an hour, I'd have mentioned something about the ship.:p
you know, inhame, what you'll see of it are just some ... her "scrolling down to look at the pic" HUGE white blobs when you shoot at it.
Ok, the guy better increase the polycount of that shield, or it will be damn ugly.
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Originally posted by venom2506
you know, inhame, what you'll see of it are just some ... her "scrolling down to look at the pic" HUGE white blobs when you shoot at it.
Ok, the guy better increase the polycount of that shield, or it will be damn ugly.
Nah, then it wouldn't look original. Those shields are like from the Dune movie. ;)
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So is that a bad thing?
Looks nice from my point of view.
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Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
Nah, then it wouldn't look original. Those shields are like from the Dune movie. ;)
what I mean is if it has such a low polycount, you shoot a single laser at it, and half the shield will go bright ( I'm exagerating, but it's the idea). I've seen that, it's ugly as hell.
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Originally posted by venom2506
what I mean is if it has such a low polycount, you shoot a single laser at it, and half the shield will go bright ( I'm exagerating, but it's the idea). I've seen that, it's ugly as hell.
Well then I agree (I guess :rolleyes: )
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The poly shield is an exact replica of the Lucifer LOD1 mesh. this means it has approx 1236 Polies. Those pics just shows the progress, as they where send as a report of progress
In case any of you are wondering if PCS can handle this. Well it can’t, but CObtoPOF with high limits can, already converted a mesh to a POF with that very shield, around a Cube.
I will post some pics here later (and I mean later, meaning not today as I’m soon going to bed) when I get my render started up, These will shows how close the shields are to the Lucifer as it is now. It still needs a lot of work.
Note the shields are going to be even closer some places. And some places you cant see the shield because it is so close. And don’t worry about Large Areas going "BLOOP" when hit, since I will increase the polycount on large polygons.
Right now I’m debugging the shield for places where the Lucifer hull sticks out of the Shield,
I will not add the spikes seen in the Cut scene or Ani files. The Lucifer is created by Volition; they left it out for a reason. IMO the mesh is better without the “antennas” that would otherwise make it look too much an ant in space.
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Originally posted by DTP
IMO the mesh is better without the “antennas” that would otherwise make it look too much an ant in space.
LMAO :D
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Originally posted by Sheepy
LMAO :D
Sorry?
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Originally posted by DTP
I will not add the spikes seen in the Cut scene or Ani files. The Lucifer is created by Volition; they left it out for a reason. IMO the mesh is better without the “antennas” that would otherwise make it look too much an ant in space.
well, the reason is that the polycount was already very high, and just extruding new spikes wouldn't have helped ( don't forget that at this time, we didn't have the computers we have now :) )
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Nice one. Maybe you could ask Woosey to update his shield project files. :)
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Originally posted by venom2506
Well, the reason is that the polycount was already very high, and just extruding new spikes wouldn't have helped ( don't forget that at this time, we didn't have the computers we have now :) )
Oh, do you have any kind of reliable source on that.
Typhoon LOD1: 1215
Lucy LOD1: 1069
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Difference 146 polies.
So, it is not the polycount that made them discard the "antennas".
My polycount is 1236 as I added some polies to avoid the “bloop” effect.
Note this is for the Shield only.
Try and put some antennas on it, and you will see why they left them out.
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:o
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here are some links, to 1024*768 renders of the current state of the editing.
left (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/progress280602_1.jpg)
top (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/progress280602_2.jpg)
Perspective 1 (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/progress280602_3.jpg)
Perspective 2 (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/progress280602_4.jpg)
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:nod::yes: I like what I'm seeing!
I don't think polycount has an effect on performance if the polys are invisible, as they are for most of the time. Plus, FS1 missions are not very system-intensive, so you can probably go overboard with the polys. Just try to spread them out.
Please make sure, however, that the shield is close enough that the player can't get underneath it. I know it might be difficult, but I'm turning the Invulnerable tag on anyway.
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Worked overtime, and got bored, so I made a collage of various shots of the mesh as it is now.
Btw changed the color of the shield to red.
allinone (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/progress290602_3.jpg)
You will note if you can see through it all, that there are very few places where you can actually see the shield extend from the hull.
The places you can see are unedited, or failed to comply with my eyes and my brain :)
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Pleace say that you will add new maps to it, it just looks bad when you get up cloce, and a nother thing it has no dibreis!
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Use the FS1 maps. Those things are huge and look friggen sweet.
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Originally posted by StarGunner (fixed spelling)
Please say that you will add new maps to it, it just looks bad when you get up close, and another thing it has no debris!
Maps: fixored, see above, and screenshots. For some reason the maps used in FS2 were the LOD2 maps from FS1. :wtf:, I know.
Debris: Well, I guess it would be nice, but you never see it destroyed in the main FS1 campaign, so why bother?
Hey look, new sig. :p
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I just managed to get PCS to import the COB file with the shield mesh and the new maps.
The shield mesh is still not perfect, some places the hull still penetrates the shield. Still tweaking those areas.
Still, I have not increased polygon count for large polygons, and I’m going to send a letter to Kazan to ask him, if there is any maximum polygon count in regard to the combined polygon max, or if the shield mesh falls under the sub object limit of 750 polygons.
The mesh currently has 636 polygons, as I have removed the shielding for the turrets.
I will wait until i get a reply from kazan regarding the max polygon count.
will post some in game pics here later.
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here are the pics, at low polycount, but as close as you can get to the hull.
These may not be the best shoots. but they show, just how close the shield is to the hull.
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen02.jpg)
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen03.jpg)
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen04.jpg)
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen07.jpg)
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen21.jpg)
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/screen31.jpg)
if you want to see more, enter my HP, via this link into the images directory
Click (http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/fastone.html)
It will be up shortly, seems my ISP changed some rules, Directory listing where permitted in the past.
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Can anyone say "Low Resolution!"
d00d, get a graphics card ;) :nod:
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Originally posted by untouchable
Can anyone say "Low Resolution!"
d00d, get a graphics card ;) :nod:
If you cared to check out the file format it is JPG, at 35% compression because i thought of download times, that comment is just being a smart mouth cause you thought you had a better GFX card than me.
The shoots where taken, with 1024*768 32 bit. You can’t get a better resolution than that with Freespace II
Next time, think before you act. :wink:
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Sorry :(
Styxx got me thinking about chocolate so............ mmmmm chocolate..... ;)
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no problem, i was not offended.
I like chocolate too, 25-35% profit.
Confectionery is my department at work. :D
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Just imported the full 4 LODs with shield, and most of the Turrets in working order with the shield mesh at polycount at 725. I’m a bit curious to see what happens when I go past 750.
Rotating turrets seems to be shielded even when they rotate outside the shield. That is a positive surprise. Thought they would be damageable when they did that.
Still Shield strength at 3500, is not enough.
I managed to punch the shield down with a couple of Helios bombs. So the strength should better be increased to something wild like 100000, if the game does not crash on such a high shield strength.
The shield seems however to glow just as you press the trigger and before the released projectile hits the shield where when it does, glows again.
I think this an in game thing, preventing you from being under the shield (meaning under the bounding box) of another fighter / ship, and therefore no shield effect should be. But a function catches this and shields the fighter/ship anyway. So I’m not sure if this can be removed.
Next test will be a full shielding of all turrets with shield mesh exceeding 750 polygons.
Wish me luck, as I’m entering the realm of blue screens and white letters. Dam I love my, hard tested system, for that it never screws up anything on crashes.
I think I got like the first 50 blue screens when I initially started testing "big shielding"
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Hmh.... but Lucy's shield still ignores beams, right?
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I doubt it :p
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Lucy's shield is impenitrable. It's the visuals that count. :D
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Looks good, DTP. I eagerly anticipate the release. :nod: :D
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The model is very close to release now, screwed up a bit at the wings. Got a rule confirmed that each vertex can only be connected to 3 other vertexes. But will fix that asap.
The Shield mesh current state is that it has 2580 polygons. Model view will block you as the programmers of that prog thought 1600 polygons must be enough. "I really hate when they think for us", but PCS is converting it without trouble.
in the meantime, here is shot of multiple fighters attacking the Really Shielded Lucifer. The white stuff is the shield.
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/glory.jpg)
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Just out of curiosity...what proggies do you people use for this sort of stuff?
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Well here is a list of what i have done in short.
1 Converted POF to COB. Used Cobtopof.exe
2 Converted COB to 3DS. Used 3d-exploration
3 Imported 3ds into 3D max 3.1
4 Edited everything in max, turrets, objects, shield etc.
5 Exported to 3ds from within max
6 Converted to COB with 3d-exploration
7 Edited hierarchies. Used Truespace 2.
7 Converted to POF with Pof Constructor suite.
So that must be
Cobtopof.exe
3d-exploration
3d max 3.1
Truespace 2
Pof constructor suite.
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s00per d00per sw33tness! You're incredible. It works in Freespace 2... I can't wait.
;7:yes:
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argh.....I can't find the POF constructor suite :mad2:
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Originally posted by MeatPie
argh.....I can't find the POF constructor suite :mad2:
http://alliance.sourceforge.net/files/Software/AllProFS2Kit.exe
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thanks man :D:yes:
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The shield is finished. :D
Look out for release on the FS1to2 port project site.
located at here (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/)
Here is a pic of the Lucifer shields only, from 3dmax. Complex. naaa :cool:
(http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dtp/images/sh43xx.jpg)
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From what I've seen sweet... :D
I'll try it when it's up :nod:
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;7
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If it works fine w/o any pb, I'll probably use it :)
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Originally posted by venom2506
If it works fine w/o any pb, I'll probably use it :)
There should be no probs / side effects. But feel free to use it. btw totally awesome explosions, nice work.
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thx :)
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I dont know what is taking GalacticEmperor so long, maybe he is waiting for me doing the insignias.
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Originally posted by DTP
I dont know what is taking GalacticEmperor so long, maybe he is waiting for me doing the insignias.
:p Real Life (TM), man. Do you have access to the 3DAP FTP server? Ask Steak or one of the other admins, and maybe you can upload and update yourself.
The shield, in game, doesn't look as good as the mesh looks like it should. Why on Earth does the shield flash when you pull the trigger and again when the laser hits? And why do some of the flashes look distorted or cut in half?
Still, great job on the turrets- most impressive. Is that Lucifer using the hi-res maps you showed in the screenshots? They still look the same to me.
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Odd, I usually get a mail when someone post here, but ohh, sorry for the late reply. Regarding the textures. Simply extract the ones in FS1 and Move them into the data/maps dir in FS2. The Tex names are equal.
I know those “Electric” lines looks cool, but they are a mistake from my side. Put them on wrong surface, and didn’t bother to correct it. Open your FS1 Lucifer model in model view, and you will see. If you want those electric lines, then it is simply a matter of exchanging capital02-02x with capital02-03x.pcx, where x is a, b and c, And you will get those electric lines.
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Regarding the flash. I suspect That is because the game has an in game "feature" that makes the shield flash when you "shoot" enters the Bounding box of the model. Imagine that you put a rectangular box around the model that just encloses The Lucifer. This is in the POF file and is used for many other things, and I suspect for the shielding ass well. Since Shields where only intended for fighters you would not notice this in the time for the shoot to enter the bounding box and hitting the shield, on a fighter.
This flashing occurs even when you are inside the bounding box and outside the shield. I have eliminated it as being some “hidden” secondary shield as I have creates a simple model that is basically a box with sticky antennas at the top, bottom, right and left, and put a simple Shield on it that does trace the contours of the simple model, and here the same thing happens.
Regarding cut in half effect. I think I just solved that in my mind. He he :D.
Looking into it, but now it is time for the dentist.
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Tested my theory and it did not work. Well I think the half flashing is because of the way a shield is UV mapped. This uvmapping is spherical and there’s no way of applying an Uvmap to the shield so that it has an effect in game, I already tried that. Unless I have to redesign the whole shield from scratch and add 10000+ polygons to it, then there is no way around it. I will try and maintain the form of the Lucifer shield and apply some “adding polygon auto feature”. Also known as mesh smooth in Max, but this usually deforms the mesh a bit. It would however look awesome on the original Lucifer. But… polygon count.
But the upside is that the shield does work against anything than collisions and beams.
Settings
$Shields: 1000000
$Power Output: 1000000
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Tested a shield polygon count of 26000, 16000 and 9300. PCS Crashed, cobtopof-with high limits ran out of "memo capacity". Don’t know why, as it only used 2 MBs of ram. gimme MALLOC coder’s gimme gimme. :D.
But, I managed to minimize the cut in half effect by a shield of 6003 polygons. No side effects or problems encountered yet. A pic of the new 6003 polygon shield will be up shortly.
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what are you talking about with UVmapping on the shields btw? you don't need to do that :nod: make the shield mesh, and that's all, no need to apply anything, the shield ani will just fit with the polygon's normals
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I'm pretty sure he's talking about the way the game does the UV mapping of the shield ani onto the shield polys ingame.
--TurboNed
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Originally posted by TurboNed
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the way the game does the UV mapping of the shield ani onto the shield polys ingame.
The thing is, the shield ani isn't UV'd onto the shield polys at all. The game simply uses the mesh's normals as display points and slaps it onto those. :)
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Even though I don't like the ship (especially because of the name I hate so much) I think that you did a good job on it.
:yes:
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Hate leads to nothing but what you hate.:sigh:
But thank you anyway.:)