Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Black Wolf on June 07, 2009, 10:16:17 am
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Just got back - still grinning like an idiot. :D I really liked it, though one of the guys I went with wasn't so happy. Everything he nitpicked though, I thought about for awhile and it actually made sense (They have a lot of tech in this movie, for example, which makes sense if you asssume they still have ten years to fight, and needed somewhere to start from). You can find niggling little issues if you really want to (Kyle Reece's age, for example - his birth shouldn't really be linked t judgement day - he should have been born at the same time regardless, and been older, since Jday was later. Plus skynet knowing who Kyle Reece even was), but these are easily ignored. In fact, one of the things I liked about it was that it was a movie which took an existing canon and built on it to make a fun, exciting movie without anything being glaringly inconsistent or silly enough to jerk you out of suspension of disbelief. There were just he right amounts of nods back to the old films, but they were, with one somewhat OTT example, quite subtle and well done. That and they stepped quite carefully around T3 - they took some of the elements of the story, yes, but there's nothing in there that references it directly, so - with the exception of the fact that T2 actually ties it up quite nicely and prevents JDay - you can omit it from the storyline and not really lose anything.
Also, Arnie's integration was done really well, both technically and in terms of the way it was done cinematically.
Overall, I really liked it, which puts me two up (Watchmen and Terminator) and two down (Star Trek and Wolverine) on my big, anticipated action movies of 2009 list. It's up to Traqnsformers to tip the scales one way or the other :D
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One of my friends at work saw the movie on Wednesday and said it was way crappier than T3 was.
Looks like the movie really divides people.
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It was okay, CGI was cool, obviously the tech of skynet was great to watch. Is it just me or was John Connor completely unnecessary in this movie? It seemed to me it was more supposed to be about Marcus Wright and his "Salvation". Meh I don't know, at least I got to see some explosions, cyborgs, and Arnie.
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I saw the movie on Saturday night, it's my favourite movie of the year already :P (Then again I've seen a lot of crap). John Connor was my favourite character
If you're listening to this, you, are, the resistance.
Man, the twist was excellent, the atmosphere was done even better. Especially Connor's opening scene with the Hueys moving in, I knew from then, it was a good use of $12.50. ;) I can't think of any points where it fell off, the only moment I didn't like was at the end, where it sets itself up for a sequel with little foreshadowing before, WTF moment for me. The ending quote was good though, made up for it.
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It was okay, CGI was cool, obviously the tech of skynet was great to watch. Is it just me or was John Connor completely unnecessary in this movie? It seemed to me it was more supposed to be about Marcus Wright and his "Salvation". Meh I don't know, at least I got to see some explosions, cyborgs, and Arnie.
Apparently when they cast Bale (who they wanted for Marcus) he demanded both to play John Connor and that Connor be given a bigger role, which explains a big chunk of why Connors parts seem so tacked on - for the most part, they were.
Oh, and keep an ear out for Sam Worthington slipping ever so slightly in and out of accent every now and again :D
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Yeah I noticed that too, about 3 times. Highly unattractive, the movie was still awesome nonetheless.
Mmm, I didn't notice so much.
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...where it sets itself up for a sequel...
Apparently from what i read in empire magazine in the uk its supposed to be the first of a new trilogy.
Seen it yesterday and thought it was brilliant. Lots of action, explosions etc, tho like has been said before, Connor could have been taken out of the film for all he actually did in it. (I say that as a big fan of Christian Bale btw)
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There were some wallbangers, but overall it was an OK movie.
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It is a modestly entertaining film that falls apart when subjected to any sort of scrutiny. John Connor, tactical and strategic genius. Messiah. The reincarnation of...well, just look at his initials. Doesn't occur to this awesome dude that, like, if he hovers his chopper three feet above the water, the terminators in the water might, like, attack. For that matter, he has forgotten the previous three films and is unaware that M4s and sidearms are not ideal for fighting terminators. Of course the rest of the leadership is just as stupid. Never occurs to them that broadcasting a signal continuously might give away their position--and even if the signal worked (talk about stupid assumptions), it never occurs to them that Skynet might have standoff weaponry.
Skynet has been transformed from implacable death into a Bond villain. Why does it let Marcus shut down the defenses? Why does it try to 'convince' him by talking, rather than doing something, anything, while he was hooked up to the system? Why does it not kill Kyle Reese? Ever? Why do the various terminators that get their hands on JC not, like, kill him? Instead of throwing him against a wall repeatedly? Or trying to slowly strangle him?
Of course, everyone in the movie is incompetent. The A-10 pilots, upon realizing there's a HK behind them...do nothing. Until JC yells at them to take evasive action, at which point the survivor reverses course to attack the massive VTOL again.
The machines are incompetent throughout. And while their inability to hit Marcus and Kyle is--laughably--explained near the end, their inability to kill JC never is. Regardless, the folks who fail to kill Kyle and Marcus are no less competent than anyone else in the film, which robs the explanation of any sort of power. If the machines were otherwise competent but never seemed able to hit Kyle and Marcus, that'd be one thing. But they're not.
Oh, and the airbases. Firstly, Skynet doesn't know how to make guided weaponry? They can build massive mechs and HKs and whatever that transport was, but not cruise missiles or the sentient equivalent thereof? Secondly, how are there still scores of operational A-10s, Hueys, and Blackhawks? There was a nuclear apocalypse, so where exactly are the spare parts and fuel and munitions coming from?
There's a fair amount of other stuff I'm forgetting as well. It's not notably more stupid than Star Trek or, say, Transformers but it is substantially less fun than those films. Might be worth a rental, but certainly not theater price. I'd have been a lot happier if there had actually been proper battles in the film; as it was, the closes we got to the war was an air strike.
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I'd say that was overly harsh. I was having too much of an SFX wank to notice about 3/4 of that.
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The A-10/Huey thing was the first thing I noticed during the film. Well, aside from 'this intro sure is boring. Hope they get on with it'. Well, they got on with it. With an air strike. And Hueys. And M4s.
I wanted my lasers. I was very cross.
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Yeah I suppose I half-noticed the A-10s thing. Still, didn't get in the way of much.
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Haven't seen it yet but it sounds kinda rubbish how they've transformed the original human grueilla force with lasers into, uh, the US airforce....?
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I'd say that was overly harsh. I was having too much of an SFX wank to notice about 3/4 of that.
How does you not noticing stuff make him harsh?
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Haven't seen it yet but it sounds kinda rubbish how they've transformed the original human grueilla force with lasers into, uh, the US airforce....?
It's so much cooler IMO.
I'd say that was overly harsh. I was having too much of an SFX wank to notice about 3/4 of that.
How does you not noticing stuff make him harsh?
They're things the layman won't take notice of, and seeing them in text form is quite, offputting to some potential viewers.
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I'm with Dilmah, I loved the CGI and there was more than enough BOOOM! to go around. Having said that, the plot was full of holes, the resistance's command was laughable and there are just certain things that don't happen. I mean, come on, hueys don't just get caught in a nuclear explosion and fly away without even minor turbulence. Not to mention that I wouldn't put John Connor in charge of taking care of my cat. (See them terminators? There, in the water. Let's get closer so they can jump up and knock us out of the bloody air.)
The film was enjoyable, sure but was it worth the $12.99? The girl I went with didn't think so (And the movie was her idea, I might add) and I'm inclined to agree.
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Haven't seen it yet but it sounds kinda rubbish how they've transformed the original human grueilla force with lasers into, uh, the US airforce....?
Its because IIRC the movie is at the start of the war and neither side has developed a energy weapon yet and even as to the US airforce thing, at this point they would still have something capable of flying. Since this is likely to be a trilogy, on the 2nd and 3rd we'll likely see energy weapons and the resistance getting more desperate because they cant possibly maintain what they have for very long.
I've seen the movie yesterday and I liked it alot, its a great action movie. I agree with mxlm on the part that they turned Skynet a bond villain, it would've been much better if they had maintained Skynet as a faceless villain but its not something that breaks the film.
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The film was enjoyable, sure but was it worth the $12.99? The girl I went with didn't think so (And the movie was her idea, I might add) and I'm inclined to agree.
I saw it with my "Crew", we beg to differ, the last time we spent $12.50 on a movie, it was Star Trek, which makes this look pretty good in comparison (plot wise, I still don't have a lot of beef with Star Trek though). I suppose it's just been a while since I've seen a decent war movie with a 3-dimensional plot that isn't based off a true story.
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Haven't seen it yet but it sounds kinda rubbish how they've transformed the original human grueilla force with lasers into, uh, the US airforce....?
That force is from about 10 years later on in the timeline.
EDIT : One thing that did puzzle me is why Skynet didn't just kill Reese, but after I left the cinema I started wondering if Skynet actually knew who Reese was or whether it simply knew that he was important to Conner and thus could be used as bait. It's possible that Skynet could have found out about Conner trying to find Kyle Reese without having a clue who he was after all.
Did Skynet ever actually say that it knew who Reese was?
2nd EDIT : Rewatched all of Skynet's exposition and not once does it actually say that it knows who Reese is.
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He was on that list of resistance personnel or whatever Skynet were planning to take out, so Skynet must've had some idea of who Kyle Reese was.
It's possible that Skynet could have found out about Conner trying to find Kyle Reese without having a clue who he was after all.
They must've found out at least a little from the events of T1.
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But why would Skynet know? Skynet's interest in John Conner is easy to understand. John's been on the radio telling the world about things that Skynet is going to do before it's even done them. It's obvious that there is something special about Conner. But why would Skynet have even heard of Kyle Reese in the first place? The only person who knew he was Conner's father was Sarah Conner. She told John via the tapes and I suppose it's possible that somehow Skynet got wind of Dr Silberman's recordings when Sarah was in the institute but it seems just as likely that Skynet doesn't know who Reese is beyond the fact that he's somehow important to Conner winning the war.
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Yeah- wait, then how does the HK do the verification thing on Reece's face? You're right in it being plausible them knowing he had importance to Connor, but they must've found out a little about him while ascertaining his DNA matchups and defining facial features (things Skynet would've found out so they could register Reece on their database, or facial features at the very least.)
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Yeah but why would any of that tell Skynet his connection to Conner? Sure it if runs a DNA test then robot Maury Povich will be straight in to say "You ARE the father" but why would Skynet bother?
Let me put it this way. Suppose Skynet knows that Kyle Reese is the man who gets sent back in time to save Sarah Conner. It doesn't know he's John Conner's father though. Perhaps it's got hold of the footage and transcripts of the original T-800's attack on the police station where Reese and Sarah were being held for example. That would be enough to know that Reese is from the future and that he saved Sarah without showing he's Conner's father.
Killing Reese achieves nothing. Conner would have just send someone else or maybe even gone back himself. But counting on John Conner's emotions to make him want to save the man who saved his mother before he was born? Now that's a plan that might work.
As for how it would recognise Reese, I'm sure Reese's mugshots along with those of the T-800 would have been distributed far and wide following the attack on the police station. It's not hard to believe that facial recognition is good enough that it can recognise him even though he's much younger.
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The whole storyline post T1 makes no sense anyway. Why would Skynet send back ever more powerful assasins along a 20-ish year gap ? Why not send a T800, a T1000 and a TX together, or atleast to the same time destination ?
Let's see those pesky humans deal with all 3 together.
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Maybe the time portal-ish thing that lets them go back has a maximum reach. That would make every subsequent attempt later in the actual(?) timeline.
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Maybe the time portal-ish thing that lets them go back has a maximum reach. That would make every subsequent attempt later in the actual(?) timeline.
That doesn't work either, since Arnie ws supposed to be Skynet's last ditch plan to win. I prefer to think of it as Skynet being thorough. Arnie was sent to stop Sarah Connor, T1000 to stop John Connor and (if we have to acknowledge that it actually happened :ick: ) TX to kill Connor's lieutenants, so that if the previous attempt(s) failed, then the others would have a chance. Limited time and possibly limited access to Terminators explains why only three were sent back, and their relative order makes sense too (weakest terminator vs. the least prepared, least dangerous enemy). The timing could be because these were the only times Skynet could reliably and definitively place the individuals in question, or maybe just when they were easiest to access.
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Yeah, a little sense. More sense would be to send strongest first, then possibly (if it actually failed) weakest, then reserve second for last ditch. More likely to win the first time around.
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I'm curious; did anyone else have a squick reaction to that bit about 'we're in cattle cars, man!' It just...I dunno, if you're making a movie called Terminator Salvation and your name is McG then you probably shouldn't be making barely-veiled allusions to the Holocaust.
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Why not? In that situation who the **** wouldn't be thinking that?
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Poor taste? Same reason James Bond shouldn't deal with Darfur. You need to have a fair amount of talent to combine Hollywoodish sfx spectacles and power fantasies with things like real world genocide.
YMMV
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Kara's point stands. In that situation, it would be a very ignorant man indeed who didn't draw the parallel.
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Poor taste? Same reason James Bond shouldn't deal with Darfur. You need to have a fair amount of talent to combine Hollywoodish sfx spectacles and power fantasies with things like real world genocide.
Sorry but I think you're just inventing reasons to be upset now. The original movie contained this line.
Kyle Reese: Hunter-Killers. Aerial and ground patrol machines built in automated factories. Most of us were rounded up, put in camps for orderly disposal.
[Pulls up his right sleeve, exposing a mark]
Kyle Reese: This is burned in by laser scan. Some of us were kept alive... to work... loading bodies into dumpsters and incinerators. The disposal units ran night and day. We were that close to going out forever.
So it's obvious that the original movie was going for a concentration camp vibe right from the start. The laser scan is a pretty blatant Auschwitz reference. Did you get annoyed at it being used there?
Your comparison with Darfur is silly because that would require deliberately writing that in to a storyline that doesn't need to. But Reese has already described the processing plants as being like a concentration camp. It's an established part of the story that he was in a camp. You can't write around that and still make a movie involving him.
Since the first Terminator film it has been quite clear that Skynet's goal is genocide and frankly I'd find it harder to believe it if no one in one of the "cattle cars" did make the association.
EDIT : And while I'm at it, why the **** should the directors name matter when it comes to mentioning the holocaust?
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Mm. I'd completely forgotten that bit from the first film. Been years since I've seen it. My mistake.
But no, not inventing reasons to be upset; it did jar me while I was watching the movie, but then I went back to being modestly entertained by A-10s shooting at things. It wasn't very high on my list of things I disliked about the movie but it was on the list; I was wondering if it was on anyone else's list. You've pretty clearly demonstrated that it shouldn't be.
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I suppose I can see how that could happen if you don't remember the first film that well. :)
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Maybe the time portal-ish thing that lets them go back has a maximum reach. That would make every subsequent attempt later in the actual(?) timeline.
That doesn't work either, since Arnie ws supposed to be Skynet's last ditch plan to win. I prefer to think of it as Skynet being thorough. Arnie was sent to stop Sarah Connor, T1000 to stop John Connor and (if we have to acknowledge that it actually happened :ick: ) TX to kill Connor's lieutenants, so that if the previous attempt(s) failed, then the others would have a chance. Limited time and possibly limited access to Terminators explains why only three were sent back, and their relative order makes sense too (weakest terminator vs. the least prepared, least dangerous enemy). The timing could be because these were the only times Skynet could reliably and definitively place the individuals in question, or maybe just when they were easiest to access.
While we're at it neither the T1000 or TX had any organic "parts".
And I still think the 101 was the best expression of the terminator ethos .
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Just recently saw it.
Overall pretty good, not up to par with the originals but then again James Cameron isn't taking the lead (again). Still, this is way better than the crapfest T3 was, and it's nice how it doesn't really refer back to it. This is what Terminator 3 SHOULD have been. I liked the view of Skynet's human resources department, showing it for the horrorshow that it was meant to be.
Limited time and possibly limited access to Terminators explains why only three were sent back, and their relative order makes sense too (weakest terminator vs. the least prepared, least dangerous enemy).
Skynet no doubt had plenty of T-800's, but it only had one T-1000, so why not send it against the most prepared target? As for why it only sent two, perhaps time......skynet at that point had lost and probably was about to be taken off-line, but did this at the last second.
it would've been much better if they had maintained Skynet as a faceless villain but its not something that breaks the film.
Agreed.
One other thing I wonder is why does it appear that some of skynet's bases inner areas look like they were designed to be operated by humans? Maybe if this particular facility was built before skynet nuked the world that would be understandable, but really why design something to be friendly to human users when you hate them so much?
For that matter, he has forgotten the previous three films and is unaware that M4s and sidearms are not ideal for fighting terminators.
It was all he had. I guess hyperalloy was just being introduced when the movie started, and was limited to just the state of the art T-800's.
Secondly, how are there still scores of operational A-10s, Hueys, and Blackhawks? There was a nuclear apocalypse, so where exactly are the spare parts and fuel and munitions coming from?
It's only ten years after the nuking, and the US does have a large number of all these aircraft. The parts to maintain them are partly based on whatever parts were stockpiled by the military with the rest coming from canniblized aircraft. Fuel and ammo comes partly from pre-war stockpiles, and it is entirely possible what is left of other nations are feeding the resistance as much as possible (Russia alone is no doubt sitting ontop of huge amounts of fuel). Long term none of this will last, human industry was largely wiped out and so every vehicle that is lost is gone for good (which is why by the time the T1 flashbacks happen, 32 years into the war, humans have almost nothing except banged up POS cars and trucks plus whatever cannons they could salvage from skynet wrecks). I think we can expect a lot more basic guerella action in the future.
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Agreed.
One other thing I wonder is why does it appear that some of skynet's bases inner areas look like they were designed to be operated by humans? Maybe if this particular facility was built before skynet nuked the world that would be understandable, but really why design something to be friendly to human users when you hate them so much?
From what I understand that facility was being used to research and build terminators for infiltration so it kinda makes sense to make the facility "human-friendly" because thats what Skynet is trying to do, a terminator that can be as convincing as possible to infiltrate human bases so it should be able to handle itself in a enviroment made for humans.
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From what I understand that facility was being used to research and build terminators for infiltration so it kinda makes sense to make the facility "human-friendly" because thats what Skynet is trying to do, a terminator that can be as convincing as possible to infiltrate human bases so it should be able to handle itself in a enviroment made for humans.
Good point, although I still think the elevator scene of the factory (which seemed like an homage to aliens) also seemed like it was built for humans. Why would automated factories need buttons at all?
Here's someone else's thoughts on skynet's archetecture, amoung other things. Certainly worth a look. (http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/musings.html)