Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Bas on June 28, 2009, 05:23:23 am
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Huhu,
although I am not that active here or don't play FS2 actually regular (I might change that...I am also on a try to convince some of my Freelancer-clan members to start playing the game) I want to point out a problem about the MP scene and presenting the solution(s)
1. It seems that many players stay in the SP campaign only? Try to convince them to play coop in MP! Where is the downside for those guys? In the worst case they play as solo player if his team mates are too low - so no difference !?
2. One thing I did in the Freelancer community just recently - I created some kind of promotion thread for c & ping, (http://the-starport.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1638.0) to advertise Freelancer at other forums. Might be worth a try for you guys too.
3. At least in the Freelancer community I made the experience that many old players come back if you remind them to the great game. Two options: 1. Everyone shall try to chat with friendly ex-players to convince them giving the game an additional try - I mean, just a person asked in the xfire thread why I don't play FL at the schedulded game times and now I am considering playing the game again? WTF?
2nd option: Send as massmail to all forums members at HLP and GW, but not simultaneously as this can causes problems with the spam filters. In this mail include great processes made in the community, SCP & Modding, and whatever else is required.
I hope my feedback is appreciated and some of my ideas work for you/FS2.
Best Regards,
Bas
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Hmm. I got the impresssion that multi has been picking up steam over the past few weeks, thanks to colecampbell666 and jedimasterseth...
There is usually at least one person per day asking whether anyone would want to have a go on #hard-light, which I take to be a good sign.
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*wonders whether to start using IRC
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There's been some discussion in the multiplayer board about SquadWar returning. Not having been around when it was operational, I really don't know very well what it was like, but that might help, I imagine.
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I don't know if SW would work right now. There simply aren't enough players to fill a map.
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Eh, at least I think a mass mail to all forums members wouldn't harm - you have over 7000 registered users !
So the chances are good that at least some will return back to the game, and some of these some will may play FS2 in MP again ^^
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Eh, at least I think a mass mail to all forums members wouldn't harm - you have over 7000 registered users !
Spam much? I certainly would at least feel somewhat wierded out if i was receiving "marketing emails" about Freespace SCP multiplayer.... /boggle.
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I didn't know FS HAD a multiplayer, so a message at least informing people that it does is a step in the right direction.
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Personally I'd be against sending emails to all members. Sending advertising email to people without being requested to is spamming, regardless of the intentions. It would be ok if HLP had a subscripable newsletter and the message was sent that way. Or perhaps sending PMs to the members. And the Announcements are always there.
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I am talking about ONE SINGLE mail to all forums members, not to spamm them over the whole time ;)
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One spam mail is also spam. If people haven't chosen to receive advertisement/informatory emails about FreeSpace and related things from HLP, it wouldn't be polite to send them advertisement/informatory emails.
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Spam, however well intentioned, is still spam.
Besides, I guess that in most cases, people who are inactive are inactive because they have lost interest in FS for whatever reason.
I didn't know FS HAD a multiplayer, so a message at least informing people that it does is a step in the right direction.
There is a whole Multiplayer board, has been there forever... :wtf:
I am talking about ONE SINGLE mail to all forums members, not to spamm them over the whole time ;)
And what would happen if that mail has no discernable effect at all? Send another one?
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never actually tried multiplayer, I guess i'll give it a try once.
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Spam, however well intentioned, is still spam.
For me PERSONALLY it isn't that bad to recieve an additional spamm mail - I receive X mails, so one additional doesn't make any difference at all.
Besides, I guess that in most cases, people who are inactive are inactive because they have lost interest in FS for whatever reason.
If I recall correctly, I already wrote something like this: If you remember people to one game they loved to play they might grab it out again. For instance, I am sure that the reminder in the xfire thread as well as the xfire calendar entries will get me a bit back to FS2 ^^^^
Yep, really.
I didn't know FS HAD a multiplayer, so a message at least informing people that it does is a step in the right direction.
There is a whole Multiplayer board, has been there forever... :wtf:
Not everybody reads HLP forums threads regulary ;)
I am talking about ONE SINGLE mail to all forums members, not to spamm them over the whole time ;)
And what would happen if that mail has no discernable effect at all? Send another one?
NO, of course not !
If one mail won't have the impact to a specific person a second one won't have any effect at all to him.
And we don't know if the mail has no effect if we don't try, correctly?
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In principle, yes. However, I'd advise you to read up on laws such as the CAN-SPAM act (I believe that was the name for american Anti-Spam laws.). In short, sending unwanted bulk e-mail opens you up for litigation. And yes, if I were living in the right jurisdiction, I would sue. Even if it is only one e-mail. Even if it advertises something I enjoy. THERE ARE NO CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH SPAM WILL EVER BE A LEGITIMATE TOOL FOR ADVERTISEMENT.
All we can do is raise awareness for the FS scene. xfire is one way. ModDB (I'm looking at you, Diaspora, TBP and WCS) is another. Random magazine features, like what happened for TBP recently, is yet another perfectly legitimate, perfectly legal, not-annoying way of generating publicity.
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OK...if it is a legal problem then I can more than fellow. (But I guess of course it also depends on the country and state in which the server/website is located)
How about advertising at other sites, especially which have focussed at space-sims? Try to advert at all sites at once for the MP scene, so you get the best possible results.
Some nice sites are The Starport, Station Network (german), SWAT-Portal, Reactorforge, Space Sim Central....
And of course also advert here at the same time for a try to convince people to play MP again.
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How about advertising at other sites, especially which have focussed at space-sims? Try to advert at all sites at once for the MP scene, so you get the best possible results.
In the name of justice, such advertising should be done by the people who want to increase awareness of multiplayer. There's no need to bother other people with such a task.
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Y'know, I'm gonna come out and say why a lot of people don't play Freespace multiplayer: it's not much fun.
Even LAN co-op is laggy, glitchy, and kind of onerous.
Single player is where it's at for Freespace.
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There's that, of course. The mods that are hotly awaited right now (BP:WiH, for example) all concentrate on delivering a kick-ass single player experience that doesn't translate too well to multi.
FS multi now is better than what it was a year ago, but there's still room for improvement.
Don't get me wrong, it IS fun, but you have to lower your expectations.
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I do really enjoy co-op missions when everything's working smoothly.
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How about advertising at other sites, especially which have focussed at space-sims? Try to advert at all sites at once for the MP scene, so you get the best possible results.
Some nice sites are The Starport, Station Network (german), SWAT-Portal, Reactorforge, Space Sim Central....
And of course also advert here at the same time for a try to convince people to play MP again.
So instead of spamming peoples with emails you would like us to spam peoples boards now, eh ? :wtf:
A "shotgun blast" of "advertising posts" across several boards all at once like you propose up there is only certain to earn you one thing: A lot of hate. - no matter what it's actually about.
If you actually want to promote the game, then you are free to do so and so is anyone else. Board moderators everywhere are also free to ban you if you come on too strong ;)
Trying to organize a grand scale spam fest however, is not going to help anyone and might even end up dragging the Freespace name in the mud - and i couldn't imagine a greater disservice to the great work of all the people involved in the SCP project and all its mods and campaigns.
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So instead of spamming peoples with emails you would like us to spam peoples boards now, eh ?
A "shotgun blast" of "advertising posts" across several boards all at once like you propose up there is only certain to earn you one thing: A lot of hate. - no matter what it's actually about.
What's wrong to post information about a space sim at space sim sites? I know most of the admins of the sites I wrote about, they won't be bad about some additional information about FS2, also or may be especially cause they don't have the time or they don't want to research about scene news by themselves.
Although, at some general gaming sites I got some problems, but not at all of those. And TBH I personally won't have anything against game advertising at my clansites etc. because they are ABOUT GAMING itself. As long as the commercial aspect isn't in the foreground.
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Basic netiquette, for once.
Here, I give you a hint: Look up the user "admiralxgmx" on this board, and on gamewarden. Compare his posts. Then do a google search on him.
What's wrong to post information about a space sim at space sim sites? I know most of the admins of the sites I wrote about, they won't be bad about some additional information about FS2, also or may be especially cause they don't have the time or they don't want to research about scene news by themselves.
Although, at some general gaming sites I got some problems, but not at all of those. And TBH I personally won't have anything against game advertising at my clansites etc. because they are ABOUT GAMING itself. As long as the commercial aspect isn't in the foreground.
Get this: This isn't about what you have or haven't got problems with. I can guarantee you that if you start linkspamming, and especially linkspamming to "help" HLP or FS2, you WILL generate more ill will than interest.
Just in case you didn't see this the first time:
THERE ARE NO CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH SPAM WILL EVER BE A LEGITIMATE TOOL FOR ADVERTISEMENT.
Most of the people who frequent Spacesim sites already know about FS, and FSO. If they have "pimp" threads, or threads debating which sim was the best, then supporting FreeSpace is encouraged. However, crossposting generic adverts across several boards (which, by their very nature, will have at least some overlap in users) IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.
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Then I suggest to PM an admin/mod maybe before submitting such a thread.
About "admiralxgmx" (I just did a very short search) you are talking about his SS adverts or something like that? Well, THERE IS (!) a difference; It is one thing to spamm a contextless thread over all forums, and maybe even multiple at the same board/website, or to write just ONE article about a game in a GAMING community, or even better, to write a single SPACE GAME article at a SPACE SIM SITE.
And as I have said...at least for the sites mentioned above the staffs will be more happy than annoyed to find such threads in their forums, most of them I know for a half year or even longer.
With "spam" I am talking about creating such a single gaming article at a gaming community ONCE.
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Oh. OK. That is something different. (I still am no big fan of the idea, but if you think you can pull it off in a non-spammy way, more power to you.)
As for the adimiralxgmx thing: His first few posts seemed sensible enough, an advert for his gaming clan and so on. It then escalated into madness. I do not want this community to be associated with acts like those.
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I can follow yor thoughts, but at least you can trust me it WILL NOT harm the FS2 community if you post it at the starport, SWAT portal, space sim central, station network & reactorforge. I REALLY know those guys very well (ok, maybe excepted reactorforge admin Baked Potato, but I am still VERY sure that he won't be mad about it - If you ask him he might even host a FS2 gameserver, lol ^^)
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Whats wrong with the News and Announcement section?
A simple advert wouldn't be intrusive.
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Just in case you didn't see this the first time:
THERE ARE NO CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH SPAM WILL EVER BE A LEGITIMATE TOOL FOR ADVERTISEMENT.
You are not talking about facts, please stop making such declarations which you have no authority to make.
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I'm not? If you're talking about my disagreement with Bas, I'll concede that I didn't read the thread as carefully as I should have (which, you'll note, was adressed in my previous post here). If you're talking about Spam in general, please give evidence of Spam being a legitimate tool for advertisement and not a bandwidth-wasting nuisance.
Should my previous ranting have hurt any feelings, I apologize.
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I'm not? If you're talking about my disagreement with Bas, I'll concede that I didn't read the thread as carefully as I should have (which, you'll note, was adressed in my previous post here). If you're talking about Spam in general, please give evidence of Spam being a legitimate tool for advertisement and not a bandwidth-wasting nuisance.
You've said there are no circumstances in which it will ever be a legit tool as though this proves we should not use it as a tool to advertise. You seem to be using it as factual evidence to support your POV that we should not use it.
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So, by your reasoning, spamming would be OK? I'm making the argument that, in the pursuit of FS promotion, we should not use tactics commonly employed by people selling viagra and dodgy financial advice.
If there ARE legitimate uses for spam, I've yet to see them. If you have, please share your anecdotes or references.
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I think I have to agree with The_E here. In part because one of the definitions of spam is that it's unwanted, unsolicited mail.
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I think it's getting slightly off message here.
What would be a good way to get people into multiplayer then?
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Try to convince old players/friends of you coming back into FS2 MP or to try it out (contact them, for instance, by Instant Messenger)
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How long ago did Squadwar get turned off? I'm sure most of them have drifted to new emails or accounts.
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Regarding mass forum e-mails, was there ever any option during registration allowing users to be contacted by HLP in the event of major site happenings? And if not, could such a checkbox be added? The game music site Overclocked Remix uses a similar option to send out periodic member mailings (once every few months or so) in the event of major events, project releases, and the like; each includes instructions at the end of the e-mail for turning off the profile option if the user doesn't want to continue to receive such e-mails in the past. A system like that would be quite useful around here to announce events like new SCP versions/MediaVP releases, or the release of total conversions. If it's a completely optional system that the user has to consciously opt into, I don't see how the concept of spam applies.
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So, by your reasoning, spamming would be OK? I'm making the argument that, in the pursuit of FS promotion, we should not use tactics commonly employed by people selling viagra and dodgy financial advice.
If there ARE legitimate uses for spam, I've yet to see them. If you have, please share your anecdotes or references.
I have received numerous useful e-mails from forums when I have accepted that I may receive e-mail from them, eg. informing me of new site developments, being told that I've not visited in a while (Subject of Kie99, we miss you!) information on new rules etc. It's an awfully sweeping statement that you make in big capital letters, but it's not necessarily true.
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The_E is still correct. If you gave consent for it, it's not spam. So you've got a valid point as well.
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Using the phrase SPAM is a bit misleading. If it was a message every week on the subject then perhaps, but one message on the subject that'll raise awareness won't make anyone cry, unless the concern is it starting a spam trend which i would doubt.
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The point is, there is no option in HLP's user control panel which reads "I want to receive updates and announcements from the HLP staff" or something like that. Now, sending every member a PM could work (There is an option which checks whether or not you want to be notified about new PMs), but I do not know what result that would generate.
Sending every registered member an E-Mail, out of the blue, while not on the same level as your typical spam attack, is still a questionable tactic, at least for me.
Back on topic: I do hope and believe that we're going to see an influx of new players once TCs like Diaspora and WCS release something multi-capable. IMHO, generating new and shiny content is the best possible way of (re-)generating interest for the scene.
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Back on topic: I do hope and believe that we're going to see an influx of new players once TCs like Diaspora and WCS release something multi-capable. IMHO, generating new and shiny content is the best possible way of (re-)generating interest for the scene.
That's pretty much it in my opinion as well.
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getting ppl back into multiplayer and having an enjoyable experiance depends on quite a few factors
some of the problems we encounter are
1. time zones........we are but a few players all over the world and finding a suitible time that we can play together can be challenging
2. people not following instructions ..... turning up not using the correct build or having some problems with there set up which causes a crash for all players
3. limitations ... we are still limited to a certain number of players in a game and although some multi-missions have been now updated and adapted to 12 players but it would be nice to see this as the standard for all multi missions
4. A lack of fredders creating new and exciting Missions and Coops ( and repairing some of the broken ones )
5. standalone servers..... this is one of the major problems a lack of standalone servers to support the game , atm it is only fubar that is hosting servers and he is USA based we certainly need standalones in europe and australaisia
6. Ping..;; this is always a problem but can be cured by more standalones being put in place
7. Support..; not from the SCP or any specific MOD but from players them selves willing to spend time bug testing and getting new things into the game quickly
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As for getting more ppl into playing multiplayer in one or more of its various guises , there is information posted in many hlp threads, some times the set up information although uptodate is swamped by lots of posts afterwards i think that this can be corrected by pulling the information out and stickying and locking it in its ow thread
other than that a little better communication with sister sites would be good and a lot more comunication between the gaming comunities , (not spam but a single post in the relevant areas)..;
but before we can support all of this we ( the ppl who spend half or more of our free time in here) need to get together and get the game play issues and limitations fixed , tested and out there so its up to us
are we capable of this can we do we want to do this ..
well there you go , i for one know we are capable and hope we can get this together
so if you are really interested in pushing the multiplayer project further pm me or post in the multiplayer section in the "the future of multiplayer " post which im about to create
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5. standalone servers..... this is one of the major problems a lack of standalone servers to support the game , atm it is only fubar that is hosting servers and he is USA based we certainly need standalones in europe and australaisia
I/we (www.station-network.de , general space sim fan site) am going to host a FS 2 server in germany/europe but I have to ask my hoster if it is possible (he meet up with my other hoster person this weekend) - Some help from the FS2 community in configuring this server will be much appreciated then.
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A FS standalone server, right now, is a standard FSOpen installation on Windows, with all the vps, and launched with the "Run as standalone" option ticked in the Launcher. Until some of the current projects regarding a wxWidgets port are ready for a release, it won't work on Linux, IIRC.
A "real" server isn't needed, just a spare PC hooked up to a DSL line will suffice. Hardware-wise, it doesn't need more power than, say, a 5 years old, mid-range PC has.
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Ok...I hope I can get it still running at the Linux machine in the data centre...may be via WinE or a VM or so?
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Wine should work. It mostly needs Windows for its UI functions.
Oh, and don't forget the multi-missions vp.
Also, you may want to try and run several instances of it, with varying -mod options (without mods, with mediavps, with FSPort...)