Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: azile0 on June 30, 2009, 05:25:11 pm

Title: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: azile0 on June 30, 2009, 05:25:11 pm
So, I was wondering what the effects of destroying subsystems were? Obviously destroying engines stops craft from moving, but what about weapons, Nav, Comms, and Sensors?

Weapons, I've heard reduces accuracy of turrets
Communications, I have no idea.
Navigations, no idea.
Sensors are supposed to stop turrets firing at you, but never works for me.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Gibbusflame on June 30, 2009, 05:41:06 pm
I can't remember, but I think that either Nav or Comm is supposed to knock out targeting/tracking abilities (whatever you want to call it).
Weapons (based off of personal experience) knocks out the ability to fire, but I'm not sure about Cap ships.

Never thought about this before, I wanna go fly now :p

Edit: Sensors, sensors? Hmm, I don't know about this one :p
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on June 30, 2009, 05:42:10 pm
Well on fighters if destroyed:
Weapons = No Firing Primaries/Secondaries
Communications = No sending/recieving messages (except support ship)
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = No radar/targeting
Engines = No moving

On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Retsof on June 30, 2009, 08:20:42 pm
You think it could be done so that the weapons system causes turrets to fire much less often, and the sensors causes them to fire much less acurately?
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on June 30, 2009, 09:58:38 pm
Probably would be another AI Profile option even if it was implemented.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on June 30, 2009, 10:20:17 pm
Let me guess. Reactor: Self destruct if feature is enabled in AIProfiles.tbl. Also, I know if a fighter bay is destroyed, it can stop fighters from being launched, but that doesn't seem to work on the final mission of Silent Threat on the Hades. So I'm guessing it is an AI enabled thing too. There are also several other uncommon subsystems depending on the ship. Also new ones on certain models that probably don't do anything if destroyed. Like collector (gas miner), (radar dome) AWACS, blade, core, shell (comm node) and fan-made models that have things like hanger, cryo-chamber, ect. Oh yeah, what if you destroy the bridge on a Typhon or a solar panel on a Fenris or Leviathan? What about a radar dish on other ships?
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Sushi on June 30, 2009, 10:49:08 pm
As far as I know, most "special" effects from destroying subsystems have to be done by the FREDder (and most anything you can imagine is possible). IMO this is better than having hardcoded values (even if toggled in AI Profiles) and gives a lot more flexibility in how things are handled. For example, maybe on one ship destroying the reactor is just like destroying the engines, but for another it would cause catastrophic explosion. Both fairly easy via FRED, totally not worth writing into the .exe in any way.

Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 30, 2009, 10:49:19 pm
I didn't think that fighterbays were destructable.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on June 30, 2009, 11:58:28 pm
They are even though there is no obvious integrity percentage for it listed next to the subsystem. I know because I destroyed fighter bays before. One should try a Moloch or any corvette first to prove it since its fighter bay can be destroyed the fastest, I believe.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2009, 12:24:09 am
Some fighterbays are destructable, most aren't.
Indestructable ones launch fighters regardless. The one on the Hades is probably this type. Alternatively, they could have been no-warp arrivals in the launch bay...donno...

Self-destructs for losing Reactors or Crystal are FREDded, not AI profiles.

I wish turret refire rate and accuracy could be changed in FRED separately. (Changing the turret AI class does...both IIRC, or it doesn't affect accuracy at all.)
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Killer Whale on July 01, 2009, 05:20:46 am
On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Flaming_Sword on July 01, 2009, 05:26:51 am
I don't suppose it's possible to create a script to make ships self-destruct when all the reactor subsystems are destroyed?
/me is a lazy fredder. :D
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Dragon on July 01, 2009, 06:13:05 am
Just port one event from "Good Luck" (FS1 final mission to destroy Lucifer).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: IceFire on July 01, 2009, 08:34:22 am
I don't suppose it's possible to create a script to make ships self-destruct when all the reactor subsystems are destroyed?
/me is a lazy fredder. :D
Even the most lazy of FREDDers can script that one :)
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Ziame on July 01, 2009, 10:46:25 am
Even I can FRED that. Though I have always been thinking: WHY DO THE PSAMTIK (can't spell hachepsoot), HAVE BRIDGE. I think they had something in mind with it...
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: azile0 on July 01, 2009, 12:51:15 pm
On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)

Maybe. I'd have to test that, like in the mission where the Colossus kicks the bucket.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2009, 01:10:39 pm
Well, the Comm definitely won't prevent it from jumping.
FREDded orders are still completed, just player orders can't be given (and it's not like you can order hostiles anyway).

Nav will stop it from jumping if the AI Profiles option is enabled. (You just have to knock its nav below 30% IIRC).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 01, 2009, 03:19:15 pm
What's the point of the bridge though? It just seems to be there and doesn't do anything when destroyed, but in reality, you destroy that and the ship will probably go down or be disabled in everyway possible. That's the brains of the ship, both when it comes to controls and when it comes to the people in that section, in most ways, I think.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2009, 03:43:55 pm
You could always FRED it like that!
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 01, 2009, 03:51:40 pm
On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)
Only if you destroy navigation. Communications has nothing to do with warping out.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2009, 03:51:49 pm
What's the point of the bridge though? It just seems to be there and doesn't do anything when destroyed, but in reality, you destroy that and the ship will probably go down or be disabled in everyway possible. That's the brains of the ship, both when it comes to controls and when it comes to the people in that section, in most ways, I think.

No.

Ships are controlled by CIC deep inside the hull. The bridge is for navigation.

On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)
Only if you destroy navigation. Communications has nothing to do with warping out.

And even so I don't believe that option is turned on in AI profiles in the FS2 retail AI profile.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2009, 04:00:59 pm
Any ship which has an easily reachable external bridge which just happens to control the its vital operations is an inherently stupid design. It's so stupid I find it offensive.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Spoon on July 01, 2009, 04:33:19 pm
Any ship which has an easily reachable external bridge which just happens to control the its vital operations is an inherently stupid design. It's so stupid I find it offensive.
(http://xs541.xs.to/xs541/09273/salamis931.jpg)
Derp derp, from up here we can see everything in space!

Gundam has some of the most retarded shipdesigns.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Mongoose on July 01, 2009, 06:58:10 pm
The Super Star Destroyer was no model of brilliance in that regard, either. :p
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 01, 2009, 07:18:32 pm
Some fighterbays are destructable, most aren't.

I tried to work this out once and swiftly came to the conclusion that those fighter bays which are assigned to launch fighters in the mission are not destructable.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2009, 07:22:17 pm
Oh? It does? Interesting...
I thought it was only a table thing where if you set a %HP value for it, then it will be destructable, but if you leave it as 0 it will be invulnerable...
I guess the game prevents you from messing up missions that way? (Though I do recall someone saying that they messed up High Noon because they Helios'd the Sath's fighterbay and Gemini wing stopped spawning or something).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 01, 2009, 07:25:18 pm
AFAIK. It's possible this has changed since I reached that conclusion, as I stopped paying attention to that detail afterwards.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 01, 2009, 10:31:42 pm
It seems you can always destroy the fighterbays but they (at least on the Hades) will keep launching fighters regardless, so in most cases it probably wouldn't make a difference. That is my memory anyways. Just like when I was barely able to destroy a main beam turret of the Ravana in the main FS2 campaign as it was jumping in right before it destroyed the Lysander and it still fired from that turret even though the turret was destroyed.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Spicious on July 01, 2009, 10:44:38 pm
Last time I checked, taking out weapons prevented targeting of bombs. Fighterbay subsystems have nothing at all to do with the ability to launch fighters. This comes up every time someone adds a fighterbay subsystem and wonders why they can't get it to launch fighters.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 01, 2009, 10:51:42 pm
Taking out weapons makes the warship less accurate when shooting at you or other friendlies. It seems that the lower the weapons subsystem integrity, the less accurate its aiming becomes. It may still be possible that it will shoot down a bomb by chance if the bomb is close enough.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2009, 11:11:16 pm
Yeah, I know that fighter launch only really needs bay paths, but I thought that the engine may actually disable fighter launch if the fighterbay subsystem is destroyed?
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 01, 2009, 11:14:01 pm
The Super Star Destroyer was no model of brilliance in that regard, either. :p

The pity of it is the ISD/VSD is not actually a bad design; it allows for 50% guns to fire broadside or nearly 100% frontal fire. The Super's design rather destroyed that with the addition of the "haft" section.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 02, 2009, 12:51:30 am
Yeah, I know that fighter launch only really needs bay paths, but I thought that the engine may actually disable fighter launch if the fighterbay subsystem is destroyed?

There are a couple instances storywise where the Colossus and Aquitaine couldn't launch because of fighterbay damage, but it may not apply in mission unless designed that way for the mission. So I would think that if you destroy a fighterbay, they will either have to get the flight deck cleared, or by destroying the fighter bay, you actually destroy many fighters and bombers from within the destroyer in the process, realistically speaking.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 02, 2009, 09:16:19 am
Yeah, I know that fighter launch only really needs bay paths, but I thought that the engine may actually disable fighter launch if the fighterbay subsystem is destroyed?

There is a couple instances storywise where the Colossus and Aquitaine couldn't launch because of fighterbay damage, but it may not apply in mission unless designed that way for the mission. So I would think that if you destroy a fighterbay, they will either have to get the flight deck cleared or by destroying the fighter bay, you actually destroy many fighters and bombers from within the destroyer in the process, realistically speaking.
Yeah, but they just said that, the fighterbays were, IIRC, undamaged.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 02, 2009, 09:22:58 am
Right, subsystems...

Sensor: Unable to target ships
Comms: Unable to send orders
Nav: Unable to jump out
Weapons: Unable to shoot and accuracy of mounted turrets reduced drastically
Laser Turret: Unable to utilise mounted turret
Engines: Unable to move (or even turn while stationary)
Fighterbay: Unable to deploy ships
Crystal: Destroys object (not hard-coded)
Reactor: Destroys object (not hard-coded)
Radar Dish: No effect
Engines FRT: Reduces speed of the GTVA Colossus
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2009, 11:34:53 am
Yeah, I know that fighter launch only really needs bay paths, but I thought that the engine may actually disable fighter launch if the fighterbay subsystem is destroyed?

There is a couple instances storywise where the Colossus and Aquitaine couldn't launch because of fighterbay damage, but it may not apply in mission unless designed that way for the mission. So I would think that if you destroy a fighterbay, they will either have to get the flight deck cleared or by destroying the fighter bay, you actually destroy many fighters and bombers from within the destroyer in the process, realistically speaking.
Yeah, but they just said that, the fighterbays were, IIRC, undamaged.
Actually they just don't have any HP and are thus considered invulnerable. Kinda like how you cannot "kill" something which wasn't alive to begin with. Or, you can't destroy something that doesn't exist.

The Super Star Destroyer was no model of brilliance in that regard, either. :p
Yeah... If your 19.5km superflagship can be destroyed by zapping a few sensor domes and crashing an A-Wing into the bridge, your design is inexcusably idiotic.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Sushi on July 02, 2009, 12:38:27 pm

Yeah... If your 19.5km superflagship can be destroyed by zapping a few sensor domes and crashing an A-Wing into the bridge, your design is inexcusably idiotic.

Well, from the same minds who designed death stars that could be taken down by a handful of fighters not once, but twice...
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: wistler on July 02, 2009, 01:05:02 pm
I don't know how much weapon subsystem loss affects beams but it makes blobs almost always miss there target from my experience.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: redsniper on July 02, 2009, 01:45:11 pm
Blobs almost always miss their targets anyways...
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Dragon on July 02, 2009, 01:59:54 pm
Not when firing at torpedoes (getting to weapon subsystem with Maxim before launching them really makes the run a piece of cake).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Mongoose on July 02, 2009, 02:58:31 pm

Yeah... If your 19.5km superflagship can be destroyed by zapping a few sensor domes and crashing an A-Wing into the bridge, your design is inexcusably idiotic.

Well, from the same minds who designed death stars that could be taken down by a handful of fighters not once, but twice...
To be fair, the second Death Star would have been all-but-invulnerable had it been able to be completed.  Too bad the Emperor didn't count on an Ewok-assisted guerrilla squad being able to take out its only defensive measures and leave it open to said fighters. :p
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2009, 03:13:12 pm
Still not nearly as retarded as the Trade Federation central command center being blown up ACCIDENTALLY by some nine year old.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: The E on July 02, 2009, 03:15:56 pm
I choose to believe that that was entirely R2s doing, with the wizkid being just along for the ride.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 02, 2009, 03:47:51 pm

Well, from the same minds who designed death stars that could be taken down by a handful of fighters not once, but twice...

Given that the 2nd Death Star was about only 70% complete (check star wars books), it is understable that the fighters  / Millenium Falcon were able to get to its core.  The flawed reactor core vent from the first design had been removed and once complete, the new Death Star WOULD have been indestructible.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 02, 2009, 03:49:52 pm


Too bad the Emperor didn't count on an Ewok-assisted guerrilla squad being able to take out its only defensive measures and leave it open to said fighters. :p


Luke Skywalker DID tell Palpatine: "Your overconfidence is your greatest flaw"

Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 02, 2009, 06:04:20 pm
May the vasudans be with you....
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 03, 2009, 01:06:57 am
To be fair, the second Death Star would have been all-but-invulnerable had it been able to be completed.  Too bad the Emperor didn't count on an Ewok-assisted guerrilla squad being able to take out its only defensive measures and leave it open to said fighters. :p

It's amazing, isn't it? Palpatine's a powerful Sith Lord, and yet he fails to read the fine print. :drevil:
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Killer Whale on July 03, 2009, 03:59:15 am
Interesting, a few days ago I saw a star destroyer website, it said some ships had terratonne lasers. The harbinger is a megatonne. So that particular laser does the same damage as 1 000 000 habringers!! 100s of colossuses down the gurgler.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 03, 2009, 04:09:00 am
Interesting, a few days ago I saw a star destroyer website, it said some ships had terratonne lasers. The harbinger is a megatonne. So that particular laser does the same damage as 1 000 000 habringers!! 100s of colossuses down the gurgler.

Several things wrong with that.

Mainly, it's only the Death Star-level crap that gets that high. (Anybody who tries to tell you a Star Destroyer has anything better than kiloton-range main battery output is ignorant of Empire Strikes Back or lying.)

The Harbinger is five thousand megatons, for all practical purposes a single Harbinger is sufficent to wipe out life on a complete continent.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 03, 2009, 06:52:45 am

The Harbinger is five thousand megatons, for all practical purposes a single Harbinger is sufficent to wipe out life on a complete continent.

all that with an explosion shockwave less than 1 km in diameter XD
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: The E on July 03, 2009, 07:20:56 am
*Cough* That's an explosion shockwave in vacuum. We do not know the effects it would have in an atmosphere.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 03, 2009, 08:09:11 am
I think it'll expand pretty quickly given the composition of the atmosphere. Earth has a substantial amount of oxygen, for instance.

Try doing it on a planet with lots of hydrogen. :drevil:
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2009, 08:53:42 am
That's not how shockwaves work. It's a compression effect, not combustion.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Spicious on July 03, 2009, 09:48:30 am
Not when firing at torpedoes (getting to weapon subsystem with Maxim before launching them really makes the run a piece of cake).
That's because they don't target the bombs with the weapons subsystem destroyed.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 03, 2009, 10:46:44 am
That's not how shockwaves work. It's a compression effect, not combustion.

I'm aware of how nuclear explosions work, they are well explained in the Vault Dweller Survival Guide (the Fallout 1 manual :) - actually the description is quite scientific)
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_Survival_Guide#Nuclear_blast_effects (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_Survival_Guide#Nuclear_blast_effects)


The displacement wave of a kiloton bomb would be of about 1km, and with increased power, the blast increases, which would also apply in space.  so while the yield of the harbinger is 5000Mt, its blast wave is compressed.  Thermal radiation (heat) increases parallel to the bomb's power, but the blast does not.  to quote the "Survivor's guide" I linked (again, the explanations are rather backed by scientific fact, its just an easy source of info XD )
Quote
"A 20 megaton bomb can cause potentially fatal third degree burns at a range of 40km, where the blast can do little more than break windows and cause superficial cuts. A convenient rule of thumb for estimating the short-term fatalities from all causes due to a nuclear attack is to count everyone inside the 5 psi blast overpressure contour around the hypocenter as a fatality

A 5000Mt bomb would annihilate a continent not because of the size of the explosion but the sheer magnitude of the thermal radiation and blast power, you'd crack the planet's crust on the impact site at that power level.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 03, 2009, 03:18:52 pm
To be fair, the second Death Star would have been all-but-invulnerable had it been able to be completed.  Too bad the Emperor didn't count on an Ewok-assisted guerrilla squad being able to take out its only defensive measures and leave it open to said fighters. :p

It's amazing, isn't it? Palpatine's a powerful Sith Lord, and yet he fails to read the fine print. :drevil:

His overconfidence is his weakness, remember?

I don't know how much weapon subsystem loss affects beams but it makes blobs almost always miss there target from my experience.
It also makes flak and those quick small laser blasts less accurate. Blobs are more for attacking capships that are slower than any fighter/bomber.

Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 03, 2009, 05:09:40 pm
Blobs are for intercepting bombs. They don't do **** to capships. Even Flak does a better job.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 03, 2009, 05:37:36 pm
A 5000Mt bomb would annihilate a continent not because of the size of the explosion but the sheer magnitude of the thermal radiation and blast power, you'd crack the planet's crust on the impact site at that power level.
Only 116 grams of antimatter. :D
Not enough to make Earth go poof :P
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 03, 2009, 06:16:12 pm
Blobs are for intercepting bombs. They don't do **** to capships. Even Flak does a better job.

Well in FS1 they were more for caps. Those blobs were a threat to the Omega transports fleeing past the Anvil and the blob turrets were in the front of the Typhon, and capships used them to duke it out in FS1.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Dragon on July 03, 2009, 06:28:51 pm
Only 116 grams of antimatter. :D
Can you tell me how do you calculated it?
I'm intrested in such things.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2009, 06:38:18 pm
E = MC^2.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 03, 2009, 06:40:28 pm
Blobs are for intercepting bombs. They don't do **** to capships. Even Flak does a better job.

Well in FS1 they were more for caps. Those blobs were a threat to the Omega transports fleeing past the Anvil and the blob turrets were in the front of the Typhon, and capships used them to duke it out in FS1.

Well, yes, Blobs were anti-capital weapons in FS1. But that's all capital ships had, except for the odd missile launcher.
And yeah, I guess the weak, unshielded non-combat craft could be killed by blob fire, but Flak is generally faster at it.

Blobs are excellent anti-bomb weapons though, as they don't miss like Flak does (flak explosions do not affect bombs), and fire much more often than AAA beams. In FS1, where ships had a lot more blob turrets, taking out weapons is very useful, if not necessary, when doing bombing runs. FS2 mixes it up a bit by adding more things that threaten the bomber, replacing the things that intercept the bombs.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Dragon on July 03, 2009, 06:41:54 pm
E = MC^2.
I meant energy unleashed in an explosion of 5000mt bomb, I know how to recalculate energy to antimatter.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2009, 06:52:30 pm
E = MC^2.
I meant energy unleashed in an explosion of 5000mt bomb, I know how to recalculate energy to antimatter.

Try this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaton)
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Dragon on July 03, 2009, 07:06:20 pm
Thanks, it will certainly come in handy when I will be designing weapons (both nuclear and antimatter).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 03, 2009, 09:22:06 pm
Doh, kilograms, that's right.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 03, 2009, 10:27:28 pm
Blobs are for intercepting bombs. They don't do **** to capships. Even Flak does a better job.

And flak is already quite terrible at it... :drevil:
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 03, 2009, 10:36:18 pm
Well, those Negator flak guns on the final mission of Tides of Darkness are quite great and fire very often.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 03, 2009, 10:46:07 pm
Well, those Negator flak guns on the final mission of Tides of Darkness are quite great and fire very often.

They are, but we're talking about the flak cannons in canon. :)
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: eliex on July 03, 2009, 11:35:26 pm
Flak isn't supposed to be good against capships - only acts as a deterrent screen to fighters and bombers and a moderate hazard to freighters.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 04, 2009, 12:12:04 am
The Aeolus makes most of its capital ship kills by bathing them in flak fire though, not it's SGreens, nor its blobs, nor its AAAs.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: High Max on July 04, 2009, 12:45:03 am
You also have to be careful with the Deimos flak, on top of the fact that you can't destroy its turrets easily.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: eliex on July 04, 2009, 01:43:32 am
The Aeolus makes most of its capital ship kills by bathing them in flak fire though, not it's SGreens, nor its blobs, nor its AAAs.

Whenever an enemy Aeolus arrives, Command always warns out to watch for the flak, not anything else.  :nod:
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 04, 2009, 06:31:32 am
It's not just Command; Snipes says it too.

Quote from: Lieutenant-Command Christopher Snipes (Beta 1), Love the Treason...
The NTC Mylae has jumped in! Watch the flak!
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 04, 2009, 09:10:08 am
It's not just Command; Snipes says it too.

Quote from: Lieutenant-Command Christopher Snipes (Beta 1), Love the Treason...
The NTC Mylae has jumped in! Watch the flak!

this is not an exact quote (to my knowledge) but command also states something like this in "The King's Gambit"

Quote from: Command
Here comes the NTC Liberty.  Aeolus class cruiser, watch the flak cannons on that warship
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Woolie Wool on July 04, 2009, 12:47:59 pm
Interesting, a few days ago I saw a star destroyer website, it said some ships had terratonne lasers. The harbinger is a megatonne. So that particular laser does the same damage as 1 000 000 habringers!! 100s of colossuses down the gurgler.

Several things wrong with that.

Mainly, it's only the Death Star-level crap that gets that high. (Anybody who tries to tell you a Star Destroyer has anything better than kiloton-range main battery output is ignorant of Empire Strikes Back or lying.)

The Harbinger is five thousand megatons, for all practical purposes a single Harbinger is sufficent to wipe out life on a complete continent.

Wrong. The K-T asteroid impact that contributed to the Cretaceous mass extinction is estimated at 100 TT or more, which equals 20,000 Harbingers. And even that impact did not wipe out all life on any continent. Even if the dinosaurs were exterminated, there were many, many species that survived the extinction event. A Harbinger impact on the Earth would be a regional catastrophe, but it would sterilize a continent or cause a mass extinction. You'd need a full broadside from a Star Destroyer to do that.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 04, 2009, 01:04:35 pm
And what would Mt. Everest's volume be, because 100 TT would be around the number of 2.3 gigagrams of antimatter, and in order to destroy the planet you'd have to fill a space equivilant to Mt. Everest's volume, inside the core. :P
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Woolie Wool on July 04, 2009, 01:20:00 pm
2.3 gigagrams = 2.3 million kilograms = 2,300 tonnes. So it would be like dropping four jumbo jets made of antimatter on the planet, a far cry from Mt. Everest. The actual asteroid that delivered this energy was much larger, about 10 miles across.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 04, 2009, 01:44:32 pm
Simply dropping them on the planet isn't going to do squat other than catastrophic surface damage, the theory of one of the ways to destory Earth is the detonation of Mount Everest's volume in antimatter in the center of the core.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Woolie Wool on July 04, 2009, 02:05:10 pm
Uh, but I'm talking about a big giant space rock that exploded with 100TT of energy on the Earth's SURFACE and killed a whole bunch of creatures on the SURFACE. You just came out of nowhere with this antimatter Death Star tangent.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 04, 2009, 02:16:28 pm
Actually I've mentioned it since this following reply was posted:

A 5000Mt bomb would annihilate a continent not because of the size of the explosion but the sheer magnitude of the thermal radiation and blast power, you'd crack the planet's crust on the impact site at that power level.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 04, 2009, 02:35:32 pm
On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)
Only if you destroy navigation. Communications has nothing to do with warping out.

And even so I don't believe that option is turned on in AI profiles in the FS2 retail AI profile.
Who cares,if it was active in the AI profiles then taking out navigation would keep you from warping out while communications has nothing to do with warping out.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 04, 2009, 02:41:48 pm
Exactly.

Comm never has, probably never will. Besides, it doesn't make sense to.
You need your Nav computer to know where you're going. You need your engines to get you there. You DON'T need to tell anyone you're doing it.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 04, 2009, 03:27:19 pm
On CapShips:
Weapons = Turrets fire less accurately/less often
Communication = No sending messages/recieving orders
Navigation = No jumping (enabled via AIProfiles.tbl)
Sensors = Nothing
Engines = No moving
So if you destroy the comm or nav of the sathanas, it can't jump out, and you can destroy it? (if you can be bothered)
Only if you destroy navigation. Communications has nothing to do with warping out.

And even so I don't believe that option is turned on in AI profiles in the FS2 retail AI profile.
Who cares,if it was active in the AI profiles then taking out navigation would keep you from warping out while communications has nothing to do with warping out.

Even so the original statement (Only if you destroy navigation. Communications has nothing to do with warping out) is incorrect in FS2 retail.

Chill.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 04, 2009, 07:50:08 pm
It was just a logical statement. I wasn't talking about ai profiles.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 04, 2009, 08:04:26 pm
Your original statement was wrong too. Destroying the navigation subsystem of the Sathanas will not prevent it from warping out.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 05, 2009, 07:06:00 am
0% Nav does not affect AI ships; they can still jump out without any Nav integrity. I don't know about 0% Comms, though.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Snail on July 05, 2009, 07:11:01 am
Your original statement was wrong too. Destroying the navigation subsystem of the Sathanas will not prevent it from warping out.
In ai_profiles.tbl you can mod it so that navigation integrity governs ability to warp.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: darkdaej on July 05, 2009, 07:45:18 am
Your original statement was wrong too. Destroying the navigation subsystem of the Sathanas will not prevent it from warping out.
In ai_profiles.tbl you can mod it so that navigation integrity governs ability to warp.

yeah, but we're talking about canon here.  modding ai_profiles certainly breaks that, as navigation is NOT indicative of your ability to jump out in retail FS1 or FS2, nor does it prevent any ship from warping out.  The only way is to disable all engines.

But I agree with you that it makes sense to restrict jumping to nav 30% and below, it just doesn't apply to retail
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 05, 2009, 09:45:17 am
Your original statement was wrong too. Destroying the navigation subsystem of the Sathanas will not prevent it from warping out.
In ai_profiles.tbl you can mod it so that navigation integrity governs ability to warp.

Read the damn thread. I said that exact same thing when this correction of S-99 started.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Droid803 on July 05, 2009, 11:15:50 am
Yeah, not to mention the fact that Comms has nothing to do with jumping has been talked about already...

Also, if I recall correctly, the Nav thing was enabled by default in a certain version of FSO (probably by mistake).
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Snail on July 05, 2009, 11:26:05 am
Your original statement was wrong too. Destroying the navigation subsystem of the Sathanas will not prevent it from warping out.
In ai_profiles.tbl you can mod it so that navigation integrity governs ability to warp.

Read the damn thread. I said that exact same thing when this correction of S-99 started.
I had lots of tabs open I didn't know which thread this was. This could be in General Discussion for all I know. :P
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 10, 2009, 05:25:15 am
Like i said, i made a logical statement. The only reason it wouldn't be logical is if navigation gets taken out and you can still jump wherever you want (ala bsg style), but you wouldn't know where you're going to pop out from.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2009, 07:20:57 am
Like i said, i made a logical statement. The only reason it wouldn't be logical is if navigation gets taken out and you can still jump wherever you want (ala bsg style), but you wouldn't know where you're going to pop out from.

You do realize that in Freespace 2 you can, by default, jump just fine with your navigation disabled? That's the point we're trying to make.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: S-99 on July 10, 2009, 07:16:54 pm
Yeah i realize that, but people are talking about the game engine as well as a disabling subsystems theory of what we think should happen compared to how it happens in the game.

That's why i said taking out navigation should disable warping out when in contrast in the game it doesn't do that.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:23:57 pm
If this was a game like Freelancer, or even the X-Universe it could be used to make the ship's jumpdrive erratic and jump out in BFE. ;7
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: Killer Whale on July 11, 2009, 04:52:20 am
This conversation sounds very repetitive.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: redsniper on July 13, 2009, 11:21:45 am
This conversation sounds very repetitive.
Title: Re: Effects of blasting subsystems?
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2009, 11:44:32 am
c-c-c-c-

THREADLOCK