Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => FreeSpace Conversion => Topic started by: da1edwin on August 16, 2009, 11:07:44 am
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Subject ^^ How does one protect all three cargo containers? I'm destroying the shivan wings almost as soon as they jump in, and I have it so that the HoL wings (Pi and Mu) warp in as initially friendly. Even so, the cargo containers, except for the last one, get destroyed so fast it's like they're self-destructing. I can't even save two containers. Normally, I'd just move on, but I want the medal...
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Personally, I just order two wingmen each to protect a cargo container and then fill the missing escort position. Seems to work pretty well for me.
Or you could always cheat and make the cargo containers invulnerable...
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Personally, I just order two wingmen each to protect a cargo container and then fill the missing escort position. Seems to work pretty well for me.
Or you could always cheat and make the cargo containers invulnerable...
I tried that, but somehow two defenders per container weren't enough; if Alpha 2 and I are protecting cargo Alpha, then either cargo Beta or cargo Gamma will die. Then I reassign defenders to three per container, and then whichever one I'm not defending dies. I've tried the mission on both Medium and Hard, to no avail. For now I just cheated my way past it.
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I've found that I have more success just giving wingmen "attack everything" orders and letting them take out any fighters that appear.
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You're not going after the HoL fighters attacking the Vasudan transports, are you? You need to stick with the cargo. Double Avengers should take down those fat, slow Basilisks easily enough.
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My solution:
Have one wing guard Alpha and Gamma each. The Shivans never attack Beta, for me. Ignore the Vasudan freighter, all it does is suck you out of position, and those HoL ships jump out anyway once the freighter escort is gone too. When the "friendly" Vasudans jump in, fire a couple shots at them each, take them to about 30% a piece. As soon as they arrive, c-3-9. The instant they turn hostile, your buddies will open up on them. If they're already at 30 or so percent, they last about two seconds, altogether. Voila, win.
(Played on Very Easy. YMMY)
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You're not going after the HoL fighters attacking the Vasudan transports, are you? You need to stick with the cargo. Double Avengers should take down those fat, slow Basilisks easily enough.
Nope, I'm not. I did the first time I played the mission, realized my mistake when cargo Gamma went down, ordered my wingmen to protect cargo Alpha and Beta, raced back to the cargo, and finished the mission with only cargo Alpha surviving. In subsequent playthroughs, I no longer budge when the Andromeda calls for assistance, but I still can't protect all three. The FS Wiki says that the FSPort version of this mission is significantly harder than the FS1 one; in what way has it been changed?
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The Shivans don't attack Beta until Alpha or Gamma bites it. Stick all fighters to escorting those two until the HoL "escort" ships jump in. When they do, c-3-9 and take them down to about 30% before they go hostile.
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The FS Wiki says that the FSPort version of this mission is significantly harder than the FS1 one; in what way has it been changed?
It hasn't been. That could be one player's opinion masquerading as fact, or it could be a result of some change in the FS2 engine we haven't identified.
One significant change is that missiles are more accurate in FS2 than in FS1.
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The FS Wiki says that the FSPort version of this mission is significantly harder than the FS1 one; in what way has it been changed?
It hasn't been. That could be one player's opinion masquerading as fact, or it could be a result of some change in the FS2 engine we haven't identified.
One significant change is that missiles are more accurate in FS2 than in FS1.
Ahh, okay. Thanks!
And I'll try Scotty's suggestion and see how that works.
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On any mission where "friendlies" turn hostile, it's a good idea to take their hull down but not kill them early on. That way, they either bite it during the mission (...But Hate the Traitor is wonderful for that one. All but Beta 2 died to sentry guns :lol:), or you can take them down in seconds.
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On any mission where "friendlies" turn hostile, it's a good idea to take their hull down but not kill them early on. That way, they either bite it during the mission (...But Hate the Traitor is wonderful for that one. All but Beta 2 died to sentry guns :lol:), or you can take them down in seconds.
cheaterrrr :P
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On any mission where "friendlies" turn hostile, it's a good idea to take their hull down but not kill them early on. That way, they either bite it during the mission (...But Hate the Traitor is wonderful for that one. All but Beta 2 died to sentry guns :lol:), or you can take them down in seconds.
cheaterrrr :P
Not cheating, but it's most effective only on missions that have no traitor FREDed in. Of course, you can always get away with a few shots and simply ignore Command's first warning.
Update: Went into mission simulator to try assigning Alpha wing to protect cargo Alpha and Beta wing to protect cargo Gamma. Cargo Gamma was reduced to 23% hull integrity within six (sic) seconds of the arrival of the first Shivan wing after Andromeda's arrival (since the very first Shivan wing doesn't attack the convoy). My wingmen and I killed that wing, and then the next wing arrived, which promptly finished off Cargo Gamma. This is on Medium difficulty, by the way.
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Hmmm, worked for me.
Then again, I played it on Very Easy...
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Play on Ace or Insane and you get more effective wingmen. :)
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There is no Ace difficulty. :nervous:
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Er, Hard. I meant Hard. :D
Must've gotten mixed up with Descent...
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Hello,
I have the same problem. There are two wings of shivans, that jump in in such position, that they are able to fire missles at transports while jumping. Since missles can't be targeted it seems to be impossible to save all three transports on medium difficulty.
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Play on Ace or Insane and you get more effective wingmen. :)
Play with Fury's enhanced AI replacing the default ones and you get more effective wingmen regardless of skill level.
And you get raped by pretty much everything with turrets... :shaking:
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Just don't let turreted ships use the new AI then, and you'll get a very much improved gameplay ;)
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Since I just tried the mission on Hard, it seems impossible on this level as well. It's not a matter of wingmens(or players) lack of skill. It's probably a problem that arose because of better missle tracking abilities in FSPort than Freespace Retail(more of the missles fired by the shivan wings on arrival hit the cargo, and those salvos are impossible to stop).
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That's true, unless you play on very easy, it's nearly impossible to save all three containers. I managed to save two of them in hard, with and without Fury's AI.
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I'm not an amazing player, but I managed to save all three on Hard last night...I like to have one wing stay and protect a random cargo container (just to keep them close to the convoy) while the other, I use "form on my wing" to keep close when I fly around near the convoy; then c-3-9 when anything hostile shows up. That way I have one defense wing that can get a few ships that I miss and me and my "assault" wing can open up as soon as they jump in.
I don't manage it every time or anything, but you have to be aware of where things are. When the HoL ships jump in, I just have
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It hasn't been. That could be one player's opinion masquerading as fact
All the responses here prove that the FSPort version *is* harder.
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That doesn't mean it's the Port's fault. It could be a code change.
I would be interested to see whether there is a difference in this mission between FSPort running on retail FS2, and FSPort running on FSO.
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I didn't say it was the FSPort's fault.
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Or only slap it on capital ships you want to be truly fearsome.
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What build are the people who are finding Port harder than Retail FS1 (Please let me know this!)?
I can only really recommend you pick up a very recent nightly to test, as a lot of AI behavioural problems in the builds after Sushi's AI profiles post effected FS1 in missions with Avenger/Shields much more harshly than pretty much any other mod.
As far as I can tell (beyond missiles ...and who cares about missiles?) there is very little/no appreciable differences between Port and Retail because I had a similar complaint when I started playing it, I did however flesh out the problem quite a lot, and came to the conclusion it was some SCP based changes that had effected /everything/ not just Port.
...Most obvious in port? Yes, but not Ports fault.
As for the mission, on insane the only realistic ways to do this mission is to do it the same way as ST:Rs escape pod mission.
You memorise the warpin points of the enemy fighters and have your fighters on c37 while you sit behind said warp in points in order and then hit engage enemy as they come in.
The HoL ships /ARE/ saveable, however you have to be quite trusting in your AI to look after the convoy (can't remember which cargo container it is, but if you order the ai to protect the right one and are burning to the HoL/Vasudans before it arrives then you can manage it, I actually think I remember you having to swap which cargo container your ai are protecting on the way back too).
If you don't want to bother flying all that way and back, you can let the convoy die to no ill effect, infact - you can also steal a fighter from it (well on retail anyway, I imagine on port too but I haven't checked).
It's very doable and as far as I know only the AI general problems (most, of which have been fixed, seemingly? (I need to confirmness)).
But yea, good luck it's a very tough mission to get a 'perfect' on (note; you don't need to save the Vasudans).
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Also helpful to damage the "friendly" Vasudan ships when they jump in before they turn hostile. A couple shots should take them down to about 1/3 hull, and then they become really easy pickings even for your wingmen.
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Hello there.
I had no problem playing on Easy mode saving the 3 shield prototypes, but now i'm wondering something else.
is it possible to save the Andromeda ? Is this a bonus objective ?
I mean, it's not self-destructing and warps with a Rho wing as cover. Then it must be defendable.
Also, the distance is crossable in time using a Valkyrie with maxed engines.
But, i can't get to destroy the HoL ships in time... they're targeting it directly, and it dies way too fast <_<
I tried doing it on Medium difficulty (I restarted the campaign to try getting all those bonus objectives)
BTW, What's that Fury's enhanced AI ?
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AFAIK, there is no bonus objective for saving the frieghter. However, if you kill all the HoL ships, you might get a few friendlies you can order around.
Fury's AI is orders of magnitude better than FS retail AI. Think better piloting, greater use of craft, dodging, firing faster, and being all around better and more challenging.
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Blue Planet Presents
An AI Profile Enabled By All The Hard Work of Sushi and Wanderer
The Fury AI Templates!
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What build are the people who are finding Port harder than Retail FS1 (Please let me know this!)?
I can only really recommend you pick up a very recent nightly to test, as a lot of AI behavioural problems in the builds after Sushi's AI profiles post effected FS1 in missions with Avenger/Shields much more harshly than pretty much any other mod.
As far as I can tell (beyond missiles ...and who cares about missiles?) there is very little/no appreciable differences between Port and Retail because I had a similar complaint when I started playing it, I did however flesh out the problem quite a lot, and came to the conclusion it was some SCP based changes that had effected /everything/ not just Port.
...Most obvious in port? Yes, but not Ports fault.
Well, I don't know what build it is, but I used Freespace Open Installer to install it, if it helps;). Installed about a week ago - the version is 3.6.10.
The problem seems to be only with missles hitting more often - I also have retail installed, so I tried comparing both. Shivans behaviour is pretty much the same, but they manage to cause more damage to cargo, while freighters seem less damaged in FSport, thus my conclusion of missles hitting better being the cause. In retail they seem to hit freighters instead of cargo more often.
As for the mission, on insane the only realistic ways to do this mission is to do it the same way as ST:Rs escape pod mission.
You memorise the warpin points of the enemy fighters and have your fighters on c37 while you sit behind said warp in points in order and then hit engage enemy as they come in.
I managed to this after 17 trials on hard:P. In retail it took me 2 trials, and I seem to be able to pull it of regularly.
The HoL ships /ARE/ saveable, however you have to be quite trusting in your AI to look after the convoy (can't remember which cargo container it is, but if you order the ai to protect the right one and are burning to the HoL/Vasudans before it arrives then you can manage it, I actually think I remember you having to swap which cargo container your ai are protecting on the way back too).
If you don't want to bother flying all that way and back, you can let the convoy die to no ill effect, infact - you can also steal a fighter from it (well on retail anyway, I imagine on port too but I haven't checked).
It's very doable and as far as I know only the AI general problems (most, of which have been fixed, seemingly? (I need to confirmness)).
But yea, good luck it's a very tough mission to get a 'perfect' on (note; you don't need to save the Vasudans).
You can also still the figter in FSport(Rho 2 I belive) - anubi with ~30% hull. Did you manage to save all prototypes and vasudan convoy? I never seem to be able to go back in time to defend cargo from the first targeting it shivan wave, and my wingman never seem to be able to defend them by themselves even from only the first of two dangerous waves.
Hello there.
I had no problem playing on Easy mode saving the 3 shield prototypes, but now i'm wondering something else.
is it possible to save the Andromeda ? Is this a bonus objective ?
I mean, it's not self-destructing and warps with a Rho wing as cover. Then it must be defendable.
Also, the distance is crossable in time using a Valkyrie with maxed engines.
But, i can't get to destroy the HoL ships in time... they're targeting it directly, and it dies way too fast <_<
I tried doing it on Medium difficulty (I restarted the campaign to try getting all those bonus objectives)
BTW, What's that Fury's enhanced AI ?
As said - saving andromeda only gives you the warm fuzzy feeling you should get when saving someone;). To defend it you must go in it's direction before they arrive(preferably from the beggining of the mission, since your wingmen will fend off first shivan waves without a problem).
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I can only really recommend you pick up a very recent nightly to test, as a lot of AI behavioural problems in the builds after Sushi's AI profiles post effected FS1 in missions with Avenger/Shields much more harshly than pretty much any other mod.
good luck it's a very tough mission to get a 'perfect' on (note; you don't need to save the Vasudans).
Blue Planet Presents
An AI Profile Enabled By All The Hard Work of Sushi and Wanderer
The Fury AI Templates!
To paraphrase Homer Simpson:
"Here's to the AI.tbl update: the cause of, and solution to, all of FSO's problems!"
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The problem seems to be only with missles hitting more often - I also have retail installed, so I tried comparing both. Shivans behaviour is pretty much the same, but they manage to cause more damage to cargo, while freighters seem less damaged in FSport, thus my conclusion of missles hitting better being the cause. In retail they seem to hit freighters instead of cargo more often.
A viable solution might be to sexp the shivans to target the freighters instead of the cargo, maybe the behavior and balance would then be closer to retail FS1 ?
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Did you manage to save all prototypes and vasudan convoy?
In Retail yes, in FSP I haven't tried.
Realistically I think the reason you're probably finding it harder is because the AI (Shivans) fire a lot more Rockeyes coming in on the Cargo.
Personally that doesn't bother me because I can just fly between the shivans/cargo firing CMs to pull the rockeyes off track, I don't need CMs for myself because there isn't a missile in the game that can hit me >.>; (even before you consider that Ports missiles have worse tracking).
Generally if you micro the AI you get better results.
The time I did the retail-insane-perfect (cargo/andromeda save/all vasudan ships alive), was before FS2 came out when getting stuff like that in FS1 was all the challenge left really ;P
Beyond multi....but multi FS1 was too laggy to REALLY enjoy for the sake of flying.