Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: JGZinv on August 19, 2009, 04:20:36 pm
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I've got one person doing our modeling and texturing, and we're both somewhat stumped here.
Everything is made in Max, and we're using a diffuse, normal, bump, and spec maps for textures per item.
For some reason, once moved over to FS2, everything gets hit with a noticeable lack of detail.
To illustrate:
Max -
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/MaxArch.jpg)
FS2 -
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/FS2Arch.jpg)
Max -
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/MaxGuns.jpg)
FS2 -
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/FS2guns.jpg)
I know the rendering engine in FS2 isn't like Max, but something isn't right when
others are getting HTL models in and these are seeing such a loss.
I've had our modeler read both:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,64769.0.html
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,37158.0.html
but things aren't really clear as to what the issue be.
What's the secret to making very clear or detailed textures show up in FS2 halfway decently?
Suggestions?
*Note I won't be around for a few hours to reply, but will check back asap.
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Scooby's the man, post specs and methods followed please :)
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I think it's borked mipmaps.
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That is very strange indeed. You're using DDS textures?
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DXT 1 textures... not sure if he's saving with alpha or not.
Here's the launcher flags since someone'll ask for that.
C:\Games\Games\FreeSpace2\fs2_open_3_6_10d.exe -mod Fringespace,
mediavps -spec -normal -ship_choice_3d -fps -window
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Tried DXT 3 or 5 yet?
it's wierd though, i'm using DXT1a most of the time and it doesn't do this for me. (i'm having some issue's with DXT5 though)
What max version are you guys using?
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Sorry to bump in... maybe this is the problem, you need to save the normal and shine maps on DTX5 format, DTX1 does not save alpha channel AFAIK.
check here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,64769.0.html) for more details on that.
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I seem to recall the Photoshop Nvidia plugin has a check box for alpha when you
save as DXT1, but again I don't know if Carl's doing that.
He's using Max 8, I'm using 2009.
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Could be borked mipmaps like Snail said, or wrong settings when exporting to dds.
Compare the original file and the resulting dds file too.
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you really shouldnt use dxt1a, 1 bit alpha looks horrible. you shouldnt use dxt3 either. if you need alpha use dxt5, otherwise use dxt1. if the image is small and needs to be free of artifacts just use tga. but i really only use tga for scripted hud gfx.
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Not to mention that FS2_Open only reads RGB information from DXT1 files, so whether it's DXT1a or DXT1c makes no difference whatsoever.
If you want an image free of artifacts, don't use TGA. Use uncompressed DDS files. u888 for 24-bit (without alpha) and u8888 for 32-bit (with alpha). There's also the option of using u555 for effects with additive blending, or starfield for example. The advantage of DDS is that it can be mip mapped and the GPU can use the file directly so it reduces CPU cycles even if it's uncompressed and doesn't save memory.
TGA should only be used in WIP stages of developement. For which it is exceedingly convenient.
Regarding the actual issue. Have you checked that the hardware textures areon the highest settings in F2->Detail settings?
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well considering im using tga almost exclusively for hud gfx, i really wouldnt need any mipmaps. and their not the finalized versions. id perfer to use greyscale images with the drawMonochromeImage() function, which is supposed to colorize the bitmaps by the set color as seen on the normal hud. unfortunately that function is borked. but yea, use tga only for dev/demo purposes.
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Got a response:
The dds plugin I'm using for photosho does mipmaps automatically, so (hopefully) that's one less hassle. I'll try redoing the archangel's textures with alpha tomorrow, see how that goes.
Also, if I save something out in a format that has an alpha channel, does it generate content based on the RGB map? Or does it just make an empty alpha channel, and I have to figure out what to do with it?
As for the too many textures problem, what I could try is reducing their size and stitching them together with other textures 4 at a time. So instead of 4 areas of the model having their own 1024 texture, they each get 1/4 of the same 1024 texture.
Herra - Running video settings on High, 32 bit color, Trilinear, 4x filtering, no AA. All in-game detail options are maxed out.
*note each of the in game settings were down by a dot, I maxed them out and it seems to have made some small improvement on the fighters. Weapons though look pretty much the same as before. Ticking the environment maps option in the launcher seems to have added a holographic style lighting to the tech viewer.
The F3 viewer seems to be roughly about right I guess:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/FS2Arch2.jpg)
In game seems to still be somewhat blurry:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/FS2Arch3.jpg)
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Well we've tried editing bump and normal, seems it has no affect. Saved as DDS 3 and 5, no change.
Shine has given us a holographic coating to the ship, although it doesn't show up in mission, only in
the tech viewer.
Anyone got another idea or want to take a look at the files?
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Hand me the model/pof&textures and i'll take a look
Though I promise nothing
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Some screenies on how it looks here.
Though for odd reasons this ship seems to look a lot better on my old crt screen then my new lcd screen... which kinda confuses me.
http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/no_mediavps659.png
Thats before I made a mod.ini for mediavps
http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/with_mediavps_normal_off783.png
Mediavps on, normals off
http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/with_mediavps_normal_on736.png
normals on
http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/in_game816.png
in game.
Looks fine to me. Have to get 3ds max9 working against to see how it looks in there.
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What I'm getting is your first two pictures... what looks like no depth.
What I want... is the last two (http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/with_mediavps_normal_on736.png (http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/with_mediavps_normal_on736.png) and
particularly http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/in_game816.png (http://xs942.xs.to/xs942/09346/in_game816.png) )
That's what I've been trying to get without any luck. It is much more well defined in game.
This is my in-game:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/ArchNew2.png)
Please explain if you've got an idea... what the mediavps have to do with this?
I thought everything was controlled on a per ship basis via the norm, spec, bump, etc..
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You are not using the mediavp's then huh?
Well that explains why bumpmapping doesn't show up.
Open up notepad, copy paste this:
[launcher]
image255x112 =
infotext = Blackholes for everyone!
website =
[multimod]
secondrylist =,mediavps;
And save it as mod.ini in your mod map so for example c:freespace2\zinv'sawesomemod\ (not in the data map)
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Effect shaders are present with the mediavps. :yes:
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Well I butchered the main VPs a while ago to try and get closer to standalone status.
That seems to be a source of many of my problems.
My mod.ini already looks like so:
[launcher]
image255x112 = fringespace.bmp;
infotext = This project is designed to duplicate, as closely as possible, the "feel" of Tachyon: The Fringe, to the Freespace 2 game engine. Tachyon was always plagued by bugs, hacking, and lack of updates. This mod is an attempt to rectify most of the egregious problems, and to update the playing experience for Tachyon fans. ;
website = http://fringespace.org;
forum = http://fringespace.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=index;
[multimod]
secondrylist = ,mediavps;
So I'm going to assume that's fine.. since the major parts are the same, probably go and get turey's installer again and redownload the VPs.
Eventually I guess I'll need to figure out which files control the shaders, then keep those separate.
I go get this done, see if everything reverts to normal.
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Shaders should be in MV_Core...
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Well we went from bad to worse.
Did a new install, updated using the installer... now it looks like the maps are trashed.
Here's the launcher flags:
C:\Games\Games\FreeSpace2\fs2_open_3_6_10.exe -mod Fringespace,mediavps -spec -glow -env -mipmap -missile_lighting -normal -targetinfo -ship_choice_3d -snd_preload -fps -window -ambient_factor 70 -spec_exp 8.2 -spec_tube 1.0 -spec_point 8.6 -spec_static 3.5
EDIT - Never mind for the moment, working on several different things.
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Well we went from bad to worse.
Did a new install, updated using the installer... now it looks like the maps are trashed.
Here's the launcher flags:
C:\Games\Games\FreeSpace2\fs2_open_3_6_10.exe -mod Fringespace,mediavps -spec -glow -env -mipmap -missile_lighting -normal -targetinfo -ship_choice_3d -snd_preload -fps -window -ambient_factor 70 -spec_exp 8.2 -spec_tube 1.0 -spec_point 8.6 -spec_static 3.5
EDIT - Never mind for the moment, working on several different things.
Try not using this.
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Talked with Zacam, straightened a lot out but I need to break down the log
into more digestible bites.
I've got several issues, mainly with the textures and even the POF.