So if the gameplay was run of the mill, but was backed up by a spectecular story, you'd play that over the one with little to no story but unbelievably awesome gameplay?If I had to choose? Yes. Games can be fun and I like having fun, but stories are what I'm really interested in. Interactive fiction is fascinating to me.
You cannot enjoy a story if you have to fight poor gameplay. Hence gamepay is more important than story. You can enjoy a game with excellent gameplay but poor story, but you cannot usually enjoy a game with excellent story but poor gameplay.It really depends on the way in which the gameplay's poor. The Silent Hill games, for instance, have universally abysmal gameplay but are well-respected because of their stories; likewise, Planescape: Torment's gameplay is functional at best, sloppy at worst, and the majority of the enjoyment comes from the narrative. The aforementioned Arcanum has some of the worst damn gameplay I've ever experienced, for God's sake. I still adore it.
I like Perimeter, and that thing has a crappy ass story.Bite your tongue. Perimeter has a wonderful story. I wish more games were half as charming and convention-defying as that title's setting.
Bite your tongue. Perimeter has a wonderful story. I wish more games were half as charming and convention-defying as that title's setting.You could make it out? I couldn't. Only things I got were that for some reason, humanity was leaving Earth through some warp system and the Scourge appeared somewhere, and some wanted to move back down some 'Chain' thing.
Hmmm. Point. Then what if the gameplay was just average, nothing fancy, just tons of been-there-done-that. But the story is fantastic. Would you still go for the one with excellent gameplay but weak story?
You could make it out? I couldn't. Only things I got were that for some reason, humanity was leaving Earth through some warp system and the Scourge appeared somewhere, and some wanted to move back down some 'Chain' thing.It's a bit convoluted and delivered in a moderately confusing way due to cuts made to the script, but no, I didn't have trouble following it.
So I was reading (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6214951/index.html) a Gamespot article [...]
Gameplay or story?
It depends on the game, TF2 and asteroids are great for gameplay even tetris is more addictive than crack. But Zork and the like excell at storyplaying. Finding a median between the two sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't. It just depends on personal disposition most of the time and how much effort the developers put in.
Either no story or a good story. Good gameplay can't make up for a crappy story. But if there's no story, then it's excusable. If a game tries to push a crappy story, it's a crappy game.
Any good gameplay tells a story, so it's kind of a false dichotomy.
I don't think so. It's very true that gameplay and story should be inseparable, but that doesn't relate to how fun the gameplay is nor whether the story's worth telling. Seems to me the question concerns fun versus the cerebral more than it does the role gameplay has in storytelling.
I don't think so. It's very true that gameplay and story should be inseparable, but that doesn't relate to how fun the gameplay is nor whether the story's worth telling. Seems to me the question concerns fun versus the cerebral more than it does the role gameplay has in storytelling.
If the FPS has a gun that shoots shurikens and lightning does it really need a plot?
Play COD4, let me know what you think afterwards.I did. It was fun, good AI. There was a story, but it really wasn't that big, imo. It was just there, you know, and not really interactive. I'll admit I enjoyed it. What about it?
I had time while so I decided to tweak my Gamespot settings instead, and ran across that one.So I was reading (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6214951/index.html) a Gamespot article [...]Why would you do something as silly as that? :P
... Oblivions 'baby spoonfulls' ...You mean the levelled lists?
Any good gameplay tells a story, so it's kind of a false dichotomy.
You mean the levelled lists?
The real problem was that NPCs did not level with the lists. Or you. Sure, guards are supposedly always five levels up on you, but tell it to the guy with the 40+ fire/lightning enchanted sword and see how hard he laughs.
Any good gameplay tells a story, so it's kind of a false dichotomy.
Right, but not really a good story. I mean, I had lots of fun in the Battlefield mod Eve of Destruction taking unarmed NVA choppers and ramming them into fully loaded Hueys. Over and over again. So, what, 'kamikaze! Respawn! Kamikazee! Respawn! Kamikaze!'
I guess it's a story. It's just not a story I'd have the slightest interest in if I weren't the kamikaze.
The real problem was that NPCs did not level with the lists. Or you. Sure, guards are supposedly always five levels up on you, but tell it to the guy with the 40+ fire/lightning enchanted sword and see how hard he laughs.Eh. Guards are pussies. Good way to get money selling their gear though. Especially if you raid a guard house.
Five levels? Damn, a level 50 guard is a pushover!
*snip*My heavy armor + block speccing meant my endurance maxxed out long ago...
I suppose that's what I mean in a way, the story is compelling, but even without the story, just wandering into random sites, the gameplay alone holds the game together quite well, even with the levelled lists, that's why I consider it an example of a good mixture of the two, though admittedly, I don't think the game would hold together without the various stories in it at all, you could only face so many random encounters before you got bored.So; again, you could say the story held it together.
I think this bespeaks something of a miscommunication about what we mean by 'story'. Asteroids has no story, per se, but the gameplay certainly tells a story: you are surrounded, you are harried, you must move quickly to defeat obstacles. No matter how simple the gameplay task, the player is probably constructing a narrative to go with it: "I'm a hero, I'm so skilled, oh no this is impossible", etcetera and whatnot.No, no, I understood that. I concur with the observation - I've taken the same line of argument elsewhere - but the OP clearly equates 'story' with a hard narrative. It seems to be asking how a developer should weigh gameplay with directed storytelling. I think the emergent story that a player creates for themselves is a very different beast to the kind that is told and, while the best games manage to get them both to sing in harmony, it seems a bit dismissive to me to brush the whole thing off as a false dichotomy when you're essentially answering a different question to the one the OP asked.
Take...Peggle. No plot whatsoever. But when you play, you're nonetheless spinning out a narrative of sorts - one built out of very small gameplay events (I succeeded! I did better than last time! Uh-oh, I'm not getting as many points as I used to). And that story is part of why the game becomes so addictive; the drive to constantly improve is powerful.
That's what I mean by 'all gameplay tells a story'. Gameplay mechanics must be invested with meaning and value in order to be enjoyable. This is why grinding in MMOs so often becomes objectionable; it feels sterile and unrewarding, a mere mechanical action in pursuit of an abstract goal.
*snip*He's right. I know that every game, simply by playing through, will cause the player to 'see' a story, that they created themselves. That one can only be controlled so much by the story writers and designers. The 'story' referred to in the my first post means the one that can be controlled by the designers, i.e the underlying story that unfolds through cutscenes, scripted events, characters and the like, the one that they write and try to instill into the game.
I play Freelancer more for the gameplay than for the story.
Gameplay tells us which games are good - storylines tell us which games are legendary.QFT.
Gameplay's vital, but the assertion that games can't be a serious storytelling medium is nonsense.
Gameplay tells us which games are good - storylines tell us which games are legendary.
Gameplay of Transcend was rubbish in my opinion, but the story kept me going all the way to the end, even after I knew I was stuck in a Herc II with crap firepower.Well, the appalling gameplay of Transcend is a reflection of my lack of mission design talent and is not indicative of any mutual exclusivity between gameplay and storytelling.
And yet most "classics" are deemed so because of their gameplay not their story.Digital gaming is still a very young industry and, at least in this discussion, "classic" doesn't mean much. Narrative didn't really become a talking point in gaming until the late 90s. As far as storytelling goes, I think we're yet to see the best the format has to offer.