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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flipside on August 28, 2009, 11:35:48 am

Title: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Flipside on August 28, 2009, 11:35:48 am
A team at IBM have managed to get an exceptionally good image of a single molecule using a new imaging technique:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8225491.stm

That's pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: redsniper on August 28, 2009, 11:45:57 am
Looking kind of blurry there.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Flipside on August 28, 2009, 11:48:32 am
Yeeesh...

Sometimes I could weep...

Edit : Though I suppose it is a good example of how nonchalant society has become to scientific advancement.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Sushi on August 28, 2009, 11:59:38 am
SHOPPED!  :P

Just kidding. That's actually pretty cool.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: redsniper on August 28, 2009, 12:55:17 pm
Yeeesh...

Sometimes I could weep...

Edit : Though I suppose it is a good example of how nonchalant society has become to scientific advancement.
Arrrgh, I should've put a ":p"

Yes, I can appreciate that it's hard to take pictures of molecules and that's actually pretty damn awesome.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mongoose on August 28, 2009, 01:10:30 pm
That's fantastic.  During the summer research I was doing two years ago on magnetic nanoparticles, some of the uber-powerful scanning electron microscope images of my samples displayed hints of the atomic lattice structure, which I thought was awesome in and of itself, but this is whole orders of magnitude beyond that. :)
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: blackhole on August 28, 2009, 06:13:18 pm
THE NANOBOTS ARE HERE!
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Pred the Penguin on August 29, 2009, 12:20:08 am
Fascinating...
Finally we get see things at a molecular level.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Liberator on August 29, 2009, 01:59:55 am
This is pretty amazing.  Of course it doesn't look like much of anything but at this scale it'd be kinda hard to make out details with any clarity. 
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mongoose on August 29, 2009, 02:51:49 am
There aren't really any "details" to make out at this scale, at least not how we conventionally use that word.  What you see in that image are the manifestations of the actual bonds between different atoms, which is already far more than we've ever been able to observe.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: karajorma on August 29, 2009, 04:36:31 am
Looking kind of blurry there.

If it was clear then it's faked. :p

An atom isn't solid. Not at this level.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: headdie on August 29, 2009, 08:10:09 am
be interesting to see how long it takes technology to come along that can be attributed to this
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Ghostavo on August 29, 2009, 08:11:29 am
Of course calling it an "image" of an atom is somewhat misleading since interaction with photons at this scale starts to have different meanings than at a macroscopic level. Of course that's assuming they used photons instead of electrons and whatnot.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Tomo on August 29, 2009, 08:56:04 am
None of these really tiny microscopes use any kind of light, because photons don't mean anything at that scale.

"Atomic Force Microscopes" (AFMs) basically work by 'poking' the object and sensing the repulsion force.

"Scanning Tunnelling Microscopes" (STMs) work by passing a tiny, tiny current between the 'probe' and the object. They raise and lower the probe to keep the current at a constant value, and the contours of that motion are the result.

(These explanations are both lies-to-children. If you do a PhD in Atomic Physics you might come to understand what really is going on here, or your head might explode.)
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Pred the Penguin on August 30, 2009, 01:07:18 am
I've read about AFMs before... 
Not really sure how big an advancement this is.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Black Wolf on August 30, 2009, 09:24:21 am
Wow. I've seen stuff at a scale... somewhat like this, looking at the individual unit cells of clay minerals, but still... wow.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 30, 2009, 11:57:51 am
Wow, i may actually be able to find my sense of shame/guilt with one of those!
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Ghostavo on August 30, 2009, 12:18:33 pm
These microscopes are not so good as to see imaginary things Dekker.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 30, 2009, 02:21:03 pm
Suppose it was a bit much to ask.... Maybe in the next fifty years then ;7
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 30, 2009, 06:21:53 pm
These microscopes are not so good as to see imaginary things Dekker.

Old Intelligence maxim: If you look hard enough for something you will find it, whether it actually exists or not.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: QuantumDelta on August 30, 2009, 09:05:00 pm
These microscopes are not so good as to see imaginary things Dekker.

Old Intelligence maxim: If you look hard enough for something you will find it, whether it actually exists or not.
That applies to more things than recon  :doubt:
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 30, 2009, 09:14:27 pm
Jealous girlfriends for instance :lol:
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Nuke on September 01, 2009, 05:28:21 am
cool, now we can measure derek smart's brain
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2009, 02:48:19 pm
I don't think this would qualify as "imaging" in optical terms.

Anyways, great job. Makes one wonder how does the Heisenberg uncertainity principle work with these thingies. Now that it would be possible to "see" it.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mongoose on September 03, 2009, 04:14:41 pm
Yeah, you're just "seeing" the structure of the bonds themselves, not the actual electrons that are being shared.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Flipside on September 03, 2009, 04:19:03 pm
Well, imaging means 'visual representation of', I think there's a bit of picking at carbon nanotubes going on here :p
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mika on September 03, 2009, 05:36:44 pm
Quote
Well, imaging means 'visual representation of', I think there's a bit of picking at carbon nanotubes going on here

Ummm, no, in the optical context it does not mean that. In everyday context it does. This actually lead me to think that they have managed to actually image the molecule with some photons sporting insanely short wavelengths.

I was wondering how does the uncertainity principle manifest itself from that depiction of the molecule? By showing the bonds as "tubes", rather than localized electrons? Ditto for protons.

Off the record, I never liked quantum physics (and actively try to forget it), but maybe here could be a chance to catch up what is really going on inside those molecule thingies. Like, it could start to make some sense when you see it.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Flipside on September 03, 2009, 05:57:03 pm
Quote
Ummm, no, in the optical context it does not mean that. In everyday context it does. This actually lead me to think that they have managed to actually image the molecule with some photons sporting insanely short wavelengths.

:lol:

Only on HLP....
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: General Battuta on September 03, 2009, 06:12:26 pm
Off the record, I never liked quantum physics (and actively try to forget it), but maybe here could be a chance to catch up what is really going on inside those molecule thingies. Like, it could start to make some sense when you see it.

I think that's what quantum physics already does. It's just not an intuitive kind of sense.

We want the world to be hard and discrete, but at the quantum level, things may actually be fuzzy.
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Mongoose on September 03, 2009, 10:56:46 pm
Some wishful part of me hopes that that "fuzziness" appears only because we haven't found the universe's focus knob yet. :p
Title: Re: Molecular Imaging
Post by: Ghostavo on September 03, 2009, 11:16:38 pm
If there's such a focus knob, the results of the double-slit experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#When_observed_emission_by_emission) would be very interesting to explain.