I can't think of many series of...well, anything...that have gone well past the third installment of a single story arc, though.
QuoteI can't think of many series of...well, anything...that have gone well past the third installment of a single story arc, though.
David Edding's (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/e/david-eddings/) the Belgariad has five books that dealt with the same story arc, well written too. (You could argue there are 8 books but "Belgarath the Sorcerer", "Polgara the Sorceress" and "The Rivan Codex" are more back stories)
Then there was the Malloreon, another five books.
I'm sure there are many other authors that have written story arcs that cover more than 5 books.
Back on topic - yeah FS3 aint gonna happen. (YET!!!!) :doubt:
Bull****. I think it dipped a bit, yes, but the fifth was even better than the second (IMHO). The sixth is my least favorite, but is still written well and has a decent plot. The seventh through ninth are good pieces of writing, and while I don't particularly like the tenth because of lack of combat, it's not a bad book. The eleventh is epic, and the side books (bringing it to fourteen full length novels at present) are all wonderful stories.
Bull****. I think it dipped a bit, yes, but the fifth was even better than the second (IMHO). The sixth is my least favorite, but is still written well and has a decent plot. The seventh through ninth are good pieces of writing, and while I don't particularly like the tenth because of lack of combat, it's not a bad book. The eleventh is epic, and the side books (bringing it to fourteen full length novels at present) are all wonderful stories.
Bull****! The side books were all awful, and as the stories went on, they became increasingly turgid and bloated. The second one was the last one to offer a decent, well-paced, self-contained narrative.
Honor turned into a colossal Mary Sue. Seriously, look at this. She has:
-a telepathic cat
-who is sentient
-who now makes her ambassador to an entire alien species
-who is an effective personal self-defense weapon
-who allows her to acknowledge her feelings for her one true love
-a husband
-a wife
-both of whom are married to each other
-royalty status on two planets
-massive wealth on two planets
-a personal kill count in the...'big' range
-an indirect kill count via fleet tactics in the millions
-intuitive talent at using multiple archaic weapons
-like swords
-and .45 handguns
-a constant feed of new technology that makes her totally invincible (Apollo missiles, pods, CLACs, Ghost Rider before that)
-been exiled, came back; been captured and 'executed, came back;
-a huge fan club, including subordinates who repeatedly sacrifice themselves for her
-tremendous beauty, but she's 'self-conscious and unaware of it'
-a gun in her finger (no really)
-and little children love to listen to her read stories.
And that's just getting started.
War of Honor was a huge book, and that huge end battle took up dozens (hundreds?) of pages. But it could have gone like this:
"Honor's fleet jumped in. A billion missiles flew everywhere. EVERYONE DIED."
It was kinda fun for all that, but man, those books are just SO bloated with infodumps...ugh.
The second one was the last one to offer a decent, well-paced, self-contained narrative.
-a constant feed of new technology that makes her totally invincible (Apollo missiles, pods, CLACs, Ghost Rider before that)
-a gun in her finger (no really)
"Honor's fleet jumped in. A billion missiles flew everywhere. EVERYONE DIED."
She has been wounded, in action, what, four times now? Captured once, check. Stranded on a planet aptly named "Hell" for the better part of two years. During that time, lost an arm, an eye (again) and Nimitz's own empathic sense. Let's not forget the duel with Young. She got shot in the shoulder there. Am I missing any of the obvious ones?
Handy thing to put in the arm that she lost.
not to mention the hilarious pratfalls of her enemies and rivals - just combine into a kind of sickening love for Honor.
It doesn't matter how much factual danger she's in; the narrative will never again be able to build up a convincing sense of menace without actually going and killing her off for good.
Weber should've killed Harrington in At All Costs as he'd planned. Unfortunately the fanbase had its way, and, well...
Look, a good series builds up its villains and takes the hero to darker and darker places.
the promising Republic of Haven development fell apart gloriously at her hands.
By about Book 4 it was clear that she was never going to be in real jeopardy
Put bluntly, it's not enough to just beat your characters up. That is the mark of many an amateur writer running about ff.net. What is a problem is that the injuries serve no narrative purpose. (I believe the trope is called Law of Conservation of Detail.) None is permanent, okay, I'll bite on that one because of the setting. (I'll even buy pyschological recovery to a point, but I would expect them to actually remember it happened on occasion.) This is magical spacetech land, the concept of permanent injury is probably outmoded anyways. However they are also not important to the scene in which they occur. They just happen, for no narrative reason, and thus come across as a lame attempt to paint Honor as not invincible.
If you're going to hurt somebody, do it for a reason.
Yet in the latter two cases, the reader feels no particular urge to throw the book down in disgust every time a dignitary, family member, friend, or captured enemy captain (!) begins to fawn over the main character.
"I take your point—yours and Alistair's both," Honor said after a moment. "But I think this is probably something we shouldn't be discussing even 'in the family.' " She knew Yu and Caslet well enough to feel no discomfort at saying such a thing in front of them, and Grant, Yu's chief of staff, was an old-school Grayson; it was impossible to conceive of him ever telling tales out of school. Besides, the three of them were family themselves, by adoption, at least, and she gave the them a smile as she went on. "
"They probably aren't making formal demands because they don't realize what gutless wonders are running the Star Kingdom," Honor said with a flash of sudden rage. "They think there may actually be someone in the High Ridge Government with a spine—someone who'd actually stand up to them! Someone—"
She chopped herself off abruptly as she realized just how much frustration she was revealing. And, for that matter, startled to realize how angry she actually was . . . and how clearly she was allowing it to show, despite the way she'd admonished McKeon, Orndorff, and Brigham in the lift car.
No one else said anything else for at least thirty seconds, but then McKeon cleared his throat and cocked an eyebrow at her.
"I take it," he said in a wry tone, "that your last comment indicates you haven't received any secret new orders from the Admiralty which we're not aware of?"
"No," Honor replied, then snorted. "Of course, if they were secret orders, I'd tell you I hadn't gotten any anyway, wouldn't I?"
"Sure," McKeon agreed. "But you're not a very good liar."
Honor chuckled, almost despite herself, and shook her head at him. But he'd succeeded in breaking her mood, exactly as he'd intended, and she gave him a smile of thanks, as well. Then she shook herself and turned resolutely back to the matter at hand.
"You think they're being distracted by the Peeps? I mean, by the Republic, of course," McKeon said.
Neither Yu nor Caslet so much as blinked, but Honor felt both of them wince internally. Not in anger, and certainly not because either of them suffered from mixed loyalties at this late date. It was more of a sense of loss, a bittersweet regret for the changes in Haven which they would never be a part of.
And a smoldering anger, worse even than that of most Graysons, over the policies of the High Ridge Government which seemed to be fanning the tensions between Haven and the Star Kingdom once again.
And you apparently missed the page I referenced (hmm, which I now see that both link to the same page). Not all Mary Sues are bad!
That's right, because when you defect to a foreign power in order to join up with the captain who defeated you, then take up arms against your own homeland, you do it completely. No mixed loyalties! Just some bittersweet regret.
Because, after all, you're not defecting to Manticore. You're joining Honor's Party!
ah TVTropes we can now have a common language for analyzing and ridiculing our media.
We went from proud ships of the line to enormous missile buses in just a few years.
And you apparently missed the page I referenced (hmm, which I now see that both link to the same page). Not all Mary Sues are bad!
No, not all tropes are bad.
Mary Sue is pretty much always bad.
Kane and Thrawn are not bad.
Kane and Thrawn I have at least heard of, Mary Sue and Honor??? :shrugs:
Speaking of dying protagonists, I'd like to know the name of the author who:
1) writes fantasy settings
2) protagonists die in his books, up to a level that you start to think that he spent so much time describing the guy he couldn't die!
I couldn't find that much information on Bakker, could have been him or not.
Honor has:wut
...
-a husband
-a wife
-both of whom are married to each other
Basically she married this guy who was already married to another girl. Really weird, I know.