Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Locutus of Borg on September 25, 2009, 04:48:11 pm
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I'm thinking anywhere between $125 and $200, depending on the features of the card.
Right now I have an ATI Radeon 2400 HD, and I'm getting sick and tired of it lagging u games like Mass Effect, and even FSO. Basically I'm looking for a card which can run a game like Mass Effect pretty smoothly (mine can't even run it smooth on low settings, lol) that doesn't require a whole lot of power.
thoughts guys?
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I'd wait just a bit for the next generation of cards since they seem to be just around the corner. If you are not in a hurry that is.
If you are, I might want to check the HD 4890.
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How long? lol
I am not really in a rush, but I'm really anxious to improve this machine. It's clear in all other forms of functionality visa vi games, except for video card.
I don't really like ATI, and since nVidia seems to be the market standard these days...what about those?
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Well, the HD 4870 was an awesome deal and eats Mass Effect alive (Crysis too, with a good comp!), but if you want to avoid ATI...
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Mass Effect is just a badly programmed game. The graphics are generally mediocre but the framerate still drops a lot in some areas for no reason, even on good hardware.
The 4890 is still the best choice for anything under $200. The 275 competes with it but is $20-$30 more.
I'd wait just a bit for the next generation of cards since they seem to be just around the corner. If you are not in a hurry that is.
The 5870 came out a few days ago, but that and the 5850 are out of his price range. The Nvidia stuff is still a few months away.
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I can't play Homeworld 2 with 5 computers without the computer lagging.
I can't play FSO and look at asteroids, and everything on high settings runs well enough to be playable, but isn't exactly smooth.
Not to mention, I like to play an old idtech3 game (Elite Force) and I sometimes get low framerates on complex maps.
If you guys think ATI 4870 is best?
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Well, the 4890 sounds great, but what are your computer's other specs?
A new video card will only do so much.
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Vista Home Premium (32 bit)
4GB Ram
HP Media Tower
... (sorry if that's not what you wanteD)
I have a 3.5 on the Windows Experience Index. If you exclude the gaming and gaming graphics slots though, I'd have a 5.1
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Processor?
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INTEL Core 2 CPU
6400 @ 2.31 ghz
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If you don't mind waiting something from the 5700 series might be a better option for your price range.
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When?
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They're supposed to be getting released in a month or so.
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I don't really like ATI, and since nVidia seems to be the market standard these days...what about those?
ATI has better performance/price ratio at the moment in nearly all of their lineups.
Unlike what others have told you, I don't think it is necessary for you to wait for new DX11 cards since you want a cheap upgrade. I personally recommend ATI 4890 series and you will soon find lots of them for sale in auctions like ebay now that 5-series is coming. Even if you can't wait that long, ATI 4850 and 4870 still offer great performance for their price. 4870 should be just about in your price range now, so go look for those.
Even if you wait for 5-series of cards, lower-end cards will probably take months to appear and are initially really hard to get since most are going to OEM's (especially now that Christmas is close) and those who preordered.
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I concur, spring for the 4870 or 4890, unless you want to hold out for something new.
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I have the 4870 1Gb and I am very pleased.... I play everything from Crysis to Prototype to Call of Juarez to Supreme Commander all on full resolution (for my 22 it's 1680x1050) and highest detail very smoothly. (on a couple of the heaviest games I maybe kick down the AA 1 or 2 slots.) And if the 4890 is any better and is still under $200 (I saw a couple of 4890s on newegg for under 200) you will not be disappointed by either choice.
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When will this 4890 be released, or reduced in price?
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Has ATI really fixed the "OpenGL? What's that then? We only do DirectX here!" problem?
In my experience, more than 75% of the graphics-related support calls I've dealt with were caused by ATI drivers failing to do OpenGL properly. (The remainder were Intel graphics chipsets.)
So personally, I'd never consider an ATI card for OpenGL-based graphics. I gather that they are very good for DirectX though.
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Huh? Several major game engines are coded on OpenGL, such as id Tech 3 and id Tech 4. Many commercial professional applications also use OpenGL. ATI has as much reason to keep their OpenGL drivers in shape as does NVIDIA.
However, it's true that some time ago ATIs OpenGL support was below average. And problems are often encountered on low-end cards, which is nothing new as they had problems with DirectX features too. This was when a low-end card of same series didn't support same DirectX feature set as mid-range and high-end cards and were in all intents and purposes previous generation cards.
There shouldn't be any OpenGL problems since 2k series. Not sure about older. My 4870 works flawlessly with OpenGL.
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My HD 2400 works well with idtech3
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Has ATI really fixed the "OpenGL? What's that then? We only do DirectX here!" problem?
In my experience, more than 75% of the graphics-related support calls I've dealt with were caused by ATI drivers failing to do OpenGL properly. (The remainder were Intel graphics chipsets.)
So personally, I'd never consider an ATI card for OpenGL-based graphics. I gather that they are very good for DirectX though.
I hate ATI, but I want to point out that the last time I installed their drivers on windows 7, openGL worked fairly well, and directX caused a BSOD.
So IMO, they just suck at everything, period.
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do what i did - get two Radeon 4890 XXX edition cards. there's nothing more powerful than the two of them out there right now :D
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and do what with the second one, use it as a drink holder?
XD
I don't even have two PCI-E ports...at least I don't think so.
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Crossfire baby, crossfire! :)
i researched the 4890 inside out before purchasing. it may be a little outdated now, but at the time, for the price, it beat geforce's 270, so i'm happy.
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do what i did - get two Radeon 4890 XXX edition cards. there's nothing more powerful than the two of them out there right now :D
Two 5870. Or strangely, a single 5870. :p
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Bah, Nvidia sets, and has set, the standard by producing cutting, reliable hardware and they're drivers don't suck.
[urlThis card]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150398[/url] or any other along that line should give you the performance you want. However, you need to be aware that you most likely will need a new power supply to meet the demands of either the ATi or Nvidia offerings recommended, which may be nigh-impossible with HPs being HPs and all. The solution is a migration from the (possibly proprietary) HP chassis to something more standardized.
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I know for a fact that there are wires inside my computer right now leading from the power supply that don't connect to anything.
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Perhaps, perhaps not, but HP, Dell and most of the other boxed computer companies tend to put the least amount of power supply they possibly can into they're chassis which are usually designed to a custom form factor.
If your PSU says anything resembling Bestec on it's label then it needs to be replaced ASAP just to keep it from frying what's in there, nevermind any addons you might get.
Photos! I need Photos!
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Bah, Nvidia sets, and has set, the standard by producing cutting, reliable hardware and they're drivers don't suck.
Sure it does (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1050162/nvidia-recommends-buying-defective-chips). Also, please learn the difference between "their" and "they're".
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reliable hardware
You're aware that nvidia has been hit really hard by massive number of hardware failures especially in their notebook line of cards in these past few years? They have lost significant amount of money due to this.
Edit: Bah, Spicious beat me to it. With a link!
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Perhaps, perhaps not, but HP, Dell and most of the other boxed computer companies tend to put the least amount of power supply they possibly can into they're chassis which are usually designed to a custom form factor.
If your PSU says anything resembling Bestec on it's label then it needs to be replaced ASAP just to keep it from frying what's in there, nevermind any addons you might get.
Photos! I need Photos!
I had to replace the original Power Supply when it died. It didn't even make it two years.
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do what i did - get two Radeon 4890 XXX edition cards. there's nothing more powerful than the two of them out there right now :D
Two 5870. Or strangely, a single 5870. :p
OK well i didn't know anything about a card that's been released within a week =P
still, my two 4890 XXXs will without a doubt beat a single 5870 :)
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I don't know about that...
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nVs budget range (bang for buck) and reliability have also sucked since ..erm.
..Actually have nV ever done a decent budget card?
Ever?
They have a HELLUH long history and I don't remember _ONE_, and I have first hand experience with a lot of them.
ATi have really pulled it back in recent years, I have no brand loyalty to either, I always swap between(to) what's best for me at the time, but for the last few years that's always been ATi (sometimes simply because I'd been impatient to wait for nV, or bought into a generation of cards late, but most of the time, just 'cause ATi cards have done more bang for buck on all but the most extreme top end ranges, which, even as a hardcore gamer, I have trouble forcing myself to care about these days).
Now if you were to talk about workstation cards and other professional cards sure nV are king.
But when it comes to the home user nV likes to **** on people, a LOT, and in as many ways as they can, so you have to be very careful to find some of the few 'genuinely good' deals they do on occasion (*normally one card per range).
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It sounds like I'll be going for the ATI cards then...XD
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The talk about ATI and OpenGL is about five years out of date. :p Both companies generally have good drivers today.
The latest 190 Nvidia drivers actually have a number of huge problems and most people don't use them at all, but the previous 186 ones are very good. The one thing in favor of Nvidia drivers are the somewhat better third party programs available, especially for profile setup.
OK well i didn't know anything about a card that's been released within a week =P
still, my two 4890 XXXs will without a doubt beat a single 5870
They will be faster in terms of benchmark framerates, but since you are dealing with multi-GPU, that won't necessarily translate to smoother gameplay.
..Actually have nV ever done a decent budget card?
Ever?
The 8800GT/9800GT comes to mind. I can think of many others if you go back in time further.
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You mean the card that got renamed about 5 times and sold at higher/current gen prices every time?
*spits*
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The prices were never all that different, at least around here. I don't care what they call the card as long as it works well.
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OK well i didn't know anything about a card that's been released within a week =P
still, my two 4890 XXXs will without a doubt beat a single 5870 :)
Actually, it's not that simple. Depending on the benchmark, a single 5870 will be either slightly worse, or amazingly ahead!
For (http://media.bestofmicro.com/0/W/224240/original/HAWX%208x%20AA.png) example (http://media.bestofmicro.com/0/S/224236/original/Far%20Cry%202%208x%20AA.png).
Assuming the 4890 CF won't have a performance over 200% than a 4890 which is the theoretical maximum for crossfire.
Here (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422.html)'s the article where I pulled this off.
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nVs budget range (bang for buck) and reliability have also sucked since ..erm.
..Actually have nV ever done a decent budget card?
Ever?
GeForce 7600 GT was a decent budget card. 8800 GT with G92 core is another one.
After that though it seems there haven't been any single decend budget solution from NVidia, and it also seems that AMD is going to be the better solution as far as performance/price ratio goes for the next generation as well, although that'll only really be certain after both AMD and NVidia release their new GPU's and especially the "high mid-range" budget versions of them.
Let's wait and see if they decide to rebrand some GeForce 200 series GPU's as low/midrange 300 series cards. They're already re-branding GeForce 9 GPU's as GeForce 100 series (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html) of cards that are going to be exclusively shoved on OEM computers :rolleyes:
/me predicts a generation of OEM computers with serious graphics card issues...
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All right,
could people just give me the names of the cards they think I should buy. ALl this ATI vs nVidia discussion makes it very confusing. :P
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here, you want good video cards? buy my 4890 XXXs.
Bought both of them within 2 months, and one of them isn't even out of the box yet...
I paid $220 plus shipping, but i'll give it to you for $200 shipped
buy them both, and you can have them for $375 shipped.
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Ok, I've settled for 4980s
The thing is, I will need to replace my power supply. Will buying a 500wat supply fry my computer which currently runs on a 300wat supply, or is energy supplied to the computer's parts based on demand.
I don't want to cook my computer :(
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Will buying a 500wat supply fry my computer which currently runs on a 300wat supply, [...]
No.
Just make sure you get a PSU with a lifetime warranty. Antec (I recommend their Earthwatts models) and Ultra offer those at a decent price.
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and those should probably fit in my computer?
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thinking about a cheap satellite SL-8600EPS, will deliver 600W so you wont have problems at all.. I have it runing on my pc (4400+ ; GTX260) for like 3 months now, running smoothly.
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and those should probably fit in my computer?
They should...
But as I noted above, there's a distinct possibility that it won't as HP, Dell, ect like making things as proprietary as they can get away with so users are forced to purchase they're overpriced, underpowered "upgrades". :sigh:
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:(
I've very close to just taking it to the store with me. I don't want to order this part and the card, then not have it fit; especially considering the amount of effort required to take out the PSU
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:(
I've very close to just taking it to the store with me. I don't want to order this part and the card, then not have it fit; especially considering the amount of effort required to take out the PSU
yeah, its almost to the point thaat you might aswell build a new machine...
but then there is the money issue, putting you in the similiar boat as i am...
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def. buying a custom computer next time around
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Make sure you get a quote/parts list and research the parts before you buy.
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So what should I do if I don't want to buy a super expensive 500w PSU from HP? I hope it isn't true that they've built the machines so other ones won't fit.
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You should check the size of and the cables connecting to your current PSU. If they match ATX specs, then you're gold.
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grrrr, I feel so silly asking so many questions but...
I looked up my power supply and I seem to be getting different dimensions wherever I go, HP says that the dimensions are 6in x 5in x 3.25in (they don't say for specifically my PSU, but for most) then others say 5.9 x 5 x 3.4 etc. etc.
How can I buy a new PSU that doesn't exactly match the measurements of mine? I'm 99% sure it's an ATX supply, but all the dimensions I find for replacements vary. If you want to look it up, I'm using an HP Media Center m7760n. The power supply is a replacement, but I didn't replace it. I had to have someone replace it with a similar part because the first one broke. (So I'm assuming they're the same dimensionally)
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...Uhm.
Measure it yourself?
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That would require taking it out, and I don't feel comfortable doing that :doubt: :doubt: :doubt:
Obviously, someone is gonna be helping me with this. While I know he feels comfortable replacing parts, he';s never swapped PSUs.
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Measure the socket, then. And give us a picture. :P
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I got about 3.25 tall by 5.5 wide
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:(
Nope, not ATX standard.
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Uh, if that is in inches, it is about the right size for ATX.
The best low priced power supplies are probably the FSP and Antec Earthwatts units for around $50, and the Corsair 450VX for $60.
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@Blood
I think it is, keep in mind I had to guess since I can't actually see the sides of the unit.
@CP5670
I need at least 500 watts for the cards mentioned before
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You don't need any specific combined wattage. The official requirements are meant to cover all the low quality to units out there and can be ignored. What you want is something from a reputable brand that has enough power on the 12V lines.
The power usage of the 4890 itself is about 150W maximum. A typical system with it will use 300-350W on load. At least the Corsair unit I suggested will handle that easily.
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Uh, if that is in inches, it is about the right size for ATX.
Standard ATX (the case, not the PSU) is usually 3.5 x 6 x N.
Mine (the PSU, not the case) is 3.4"(H) x 5.9"(W) x 6"(D).
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I have a 350 watt power supply, but the ATI page says I need a 500 watt power supply
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/requirements-4890.html
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Standard ATX (the case, not the PSU) is usually 3.5 x 6 x N.
Mine (the PSU, not the case) is 3.4"(H) x 5.9"(W) x 6"(D).
You may actually be right. I thought he was measuring the size through the PSU cover on the case, in which case the actual size would be larger. However, the Micro ATX dimensions are closer to ATX than I thought, so it could really go either way.
I have a 350 watt power supply, but the ATI page says I need a 500 watt power supply
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/requirements-4890.html
Yes, this is what I was saying you should ignore if you're buying a new PSU.
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Why, I mean
I wouldn't want to risk it getting a 400 watt PSU. I'm already at 350...it seems reasonable to get a 500 anyway. Why tempt fate, right?
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Exactly, besides, you don't wanna be running the thing at max output, it'll be more efficient at about 75% load.
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Why, I mean
I wouldn't want to risk it getting a 400 watt PSU. I'm already at 350...it seems reasonable to get a 500 anyway. Why tempt fate, right?
If it's in your budget, sure. It will give you some room for future expansion. (assuming your case is in fact standard ATX)
But "500W' by itself doesn't mean anything. Your computer is not going to use more than 300W in reality, but there are plenty of low quality 500W units out there that will fail on it, and also some high quality units rated much lower that will work fine.
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I'd rather spend the extra $20-$40 for what they recommend, than have a failing unit or one that doesn't end up working.