Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: brandx0 on September 30, 2009, 01:21:25 am
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Looks like my random prefixing has gotten the best of me here. Without further ado, our first WIP shot of the NuB-wing.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5367/nub01.jpg)
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Hawt....
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One of my favorites, if this comes out as snazzy as the A Wing then hawt damn.
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:wtf: it already lookks ready for texture...wow.
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:yes:
The only SW ship I absolutely hated to fly in X-Wing. Maneuvered like a tub-O-s**t and had shuch a huge spread of fire that hitting a small craft was very hard indeed. I'd take a Y-Wing any day...
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I imagine the cockpit offset would be pretty hard to get used to, but that once you got the hang of it it wouldn't be a problem.
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problem in comparing Y-wing to B-wing is in capabilities is like comparing a Zeus to an ursa they where is, Zeus is like the Y-wing supposedly a bomber capable of dogfighting (though the Y-Wing suffers from age) the B-Wing is more of a pure capship killer
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Oh, it's actually called a B-wing? :nervous:
Indeed, it already looks as if it's ready for texturing. Thumbs up again.
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Thats silly. Most of the fluff points at it being the Helldiver to the Y-wing's Dauntless. At best you could argue with it being analogous to the hard-hitting strafer B-25Gs with a nose full of 50 cals and a 75mm, it's certainly no B-24 Liberator. The B-wing is still a snubbie not a strategic bomber. Heck in RotJ it was keeping pace with the rest of the rebel fighters at Endor.
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I think a lot of the role differentiation was entirely done by the games. In the movies they really all just fly around shooting stuff to look cool.
The only real exception I can think of (not counting unique ships) is the TIE Interceptor; IIRC there were wings of normal TIE's with 1 TIE Interceptor leading them.
Also, they look like bow ties. The acronym was obviously just a silly retcon.
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Will it have cabin, pylons and main wing as separate submodels?
I think I will be able to animate it if it will be set up like that.
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Yeah, they're all separated.
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I wonder how the animations are going to work on this ship...
thinking the cockpit always 'right side up', and obviously the s-foils open, but i really wonder what it'll be like to fly a ship whose guns keep rotating around you...
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Tell it to quit lying down on the job there is an intergalactic war on. :P
Other then that great so far.
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Brand, was a system settled on yet that will determine how S-Foils will work?
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Not that I know of, I don't make things work, I just make them pretty
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Tell it to quit lying down on the job there is an intergalactic war on. :P
Intergalactic?
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Tell it to quit lying down on the job there is an intergalactic war on. :P
Intergalactic?
The "Rishi Maze" and another Satellite Galaxy seen on a terminal of Episode II.
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So in other words, not really intergalactic at all. Gotcha.
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It's galaxywide.
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The point being...
I'm also curious how the cockpit would work for the B-wing.
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I'm also curious how the cockpit would work for the B-wing.
The weird thing about the B-Wing is that its centre of mass is in the cockpit. And having the fuselage continuously rotate around the cockpit doesn't make much sense either. It would be impossible to aim at smaller targets. As a game feature, I think the rotation of the fuselage should be determined by rolling.
If the centre of mass is put in the cockpit, rolling would swing the fuselage around the eye-point. Approaching a capship in a roll would make the pilot hard to hit (the fuselage is moving even when the fighter's overall motion is perpendicular to the target), but allow the player to get an easy lock on since the reticule would remain stationary.
When trying to peg enemy fighters, the pilot wouldn't roll, so it would be easier to predict where the shots would land.
It still doesn't explain why the craft's centre of mass is in the cockpit, but at least it would be fun to fly.
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A wizard. . . I mean Jedi did it.
Repulsor doodads or handwavium.
On a rather different note, I can appreciate most of the other "alphabet fighters" look like their namesakes from certain angles, but I never twigged how the B Wing did.
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Unobtanium for the win. :yes:
Do what X-Wing did with a bit more creativity. Put the CM in the central connection point - you know, where the engines are. A fighter making turns about the cockpit pod would just look... odd. It would play strangely as well. S-Foils with the B-Wing will get really tricky really fast unless you decide on a convention quick. According to much of the SW stuff I've read (may be based on the games), the B-Wing typically only has the wing locked so it lays to the side of the cockpit or swings beneath it when the smaller foils extend. The reason for this is the rotation mechanism on the cockpit was... generally not the most reliable.
If FotG has atmospheric missions... you might consider two different B-Wing models: one that positions itself normally and one that lays on its side even when the smaller attack wings are extended. You would use the normal one (looks like a t or cross) for space combat and the wing for atmospheric ops. The latter strangely makes a bit-o-sense for SW. The B-Wing is strangely aerodynamic for a change...
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You know, when I was young, I always knew if it was a Rebel or Imp ship just by the name. If it was "Letter"-wing, it was Reb.
Nice ship anyway. Done in 3DS Max?
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Personally, I was happy with the way the b-wing worked in x-w:alliance. No need to overcomplicate things.
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On a rather different note, I can appreciate most of the other "alphabet fighters" look like their namesakes from certain angles, but I never twigged how the B Wing did.
The answer to how the B-Wing got it's name has to do with the design team on RotJ. One of the guys (looking at a side view of it) said it looks like a blade. Hence B-Wing. I personally thought it made more sense to be called a T-Wing. But then again the Y-Wing is not a rear view either.
Although the Colonial Viper from the original BSG was the concept design for the Y-Wing.
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And then the EU made a T-wing anyway.
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Although the Colonial Viper from the original BSG was the concept design for the Y-Wing.
Wait, really? I thought Star Wars predated BSG.
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Yep. Star Wars opened in 77, BSG started in 78 as a cash-in. And I would like to see some evidence of that, because the Viper doesn't look anything like the Y-Wing design concepts I've seen so far....
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Yep. Star Wars opened in 77, BSG started in 78 as a cash-in. And I would like to see some evidence of that, because the Viper doesn't look anything like the Y-Wing design concepts I've seen so far....
so in other words "pics or it didn't happen"?
the cockpit is a little bit similiar, so its not entirely impossible, except for the dates being backwards.
maybe its the viper that's loosly based on y-wing? anyway, little OT there, so...
yeah, the simple way it worked in XWA would work dandy, i'd think, but maybe it could be the way we see it in render in 'flight' mode, then the wing swings underneath with the s-foils deploying, ready for attack..?
like this:
flight:
o=--
attack:
........... o
...........-|-
.-..........|
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Although the Colonial Viper from the original BSG was the concept design for the Y-Wing.
Wait, really? I thought Star Wars predated BSG.
I assume he might mean the Colonial Viper was based off a failed concept piece for the Y-wing, ie made for Star Wars but not used in A New Hope. Ergo it is not a temporal anomaly and the timeline secure. Go Agent 5 of the TSA!
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Okay, that makes sense. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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I had to read it a couple times at first myself. Though there is no guarantee he did actually mean it the other way and has been huffing glue :D
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*snip
Actually said the same thing earlier in my post. :D
The whole spinning thing is a cool idea, but practical implementation will either: (a.) be impossible to manage properly and make gamplay... more unpleasant [than it will be already with the B-Wing] or (b.) you do it right, but development speed suffers as a result. Given the difficulty with respect to the second option, option 'a' is unfortunately a more plausible outcome. A complex flight operation involves complex controls. Either it will take the SCP coders a tremendous amount of time and effort to get those controls for truly proper or the mod staff will determine that the average player doesn't/shouldn't need to worry about those factors; the latter obviously nerfs and degrades gameplay. Seeing as that's the sort of thing Lucas Arts does in respect to these things... FotG should probably just keep it simple.
Again I reference my earlier post. A B-Wing for space (required) that extends into a 't' or cross, and an atmospheric B-Wing (possible depending on the final scope of FotG) which stays flat and opens its wings while in attack mode so as to look like the sideways 't.' In which case, you'd be flying your fighter like an asymmetrical aircraft. Also note that aiming with the B-Wing against small targets, regardless of position, is going to be hard. If it's spinning about the cockpit... it's going to be really tough to 'a whole 'notha level.'
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Again I reference my earlier post. A B-Wing for space (required) that extends into a 't' or cross, and an atmospheric B-Wing (possible depending on the final scope of FotG) which stays flat and opens its wings while in attack mode so as to look like the sideways 't.' In which case, you'd be flying your fighter like an asymmetrical aircraft. Also note that aiming with the B-Wing against small targets, regardless of position, is going to be hard. If it's spinning about the cockpit... it's going to be really tough to 'a whole 'notha level.'
yeah, i just realised re-interated your post :rolleyes:
anyway, maybe that making it a ***** to aim at small targets can serve as a balance for a lot of firepower...?
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The B-Wing's main attraction is its heavy torpedo load, very dense (albeit scrawny) hull, and thick shields. It's usually cited as being faster than the Y-Wing as well. I'll agree to that. But I refuse to believe any 'superior maneuverability' crap that Lucas Arts tried putting out in the past. As for balancing goes, I think that would be fair.
Sure it holds more torps, is a bit toughter and faster than the good 'ole Y-Wing, but it's garbage in a furball...
As far as cannons go, The B-Wing actually isn't all that over-powered. Three... not terribly placed laser cannons and three widely separated ion cannons... though that's debatable. Many sources have different configurations for the weapons; some even claim the big gun at the bottom is a turbolaser! ;7
<Thaeris notes that he could forgive the B-Wing for sucking so hard if FotG made the bottom gun a turbolaser.>
Note ion cannons are quite specialized... but that might change depending on how the team balances everything. However, you're only going to use that weapon only so much... unlike the lasers, which you're going to be using all the time. Three lasers isn't too overpowered. The moral of the story is that the B-Wing is unfun enough in fighter combat already. There's probably no good reason to make it worse by spinning it around [by the engine pod... not the cockpit!], having the viewpoint change consistantly, and having the firepoints change all the time despite any auto-aim. It would be a shame to let anyone who actually likes this hulk now change their mind due to FotG... Boanerges syndrome, perhaps?
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Center of gravity in the engine pod, definitely. Just because the cockpit is the only place that swivels, doesn't mean it's the center of gravity, even though it seemed like it was in the games. We have the technology (I assume) to put the viewpoit somewhere besides the center of gravity.
Sure it'll be a little harder to dogfight in, but it always was; no reason to complicate it further by making the ship constantly swinging willy-nilly.
@Thaeris, I think the ions could be useful, even for just adding extra punch to taking down a cap ship's shields, or in a dogfight to save your cannons for the killing shot. Of if two of them are mounted on the cockpit pod-like in X-Wing-they could be useful in their own right.
P.S. Excellent model work as always, Brand.
P.P.S. Generally, the Star Wars universe tends to follow our laws of physics, wherever possible.
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The laser at the wingtip is a Gyrhil R-9x Heavy Laser Cannon, which will probably be the most powerful fighter laser in the game, however there's only one of it. Still, it will pack a punch, if you can hit something with it.
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Where exactly do the torpedoes fit, anyway?
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That's debatable. Some say in the tip of the wing, some say alongside the engines.
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My flag is planted at the engine camp.
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Center of gravity in the engine pod, definitely. Just because the cockpit is the only place that swivels, doesn't mean it's the center of gravity, even though it seemed like it was in the games. We have the technology (I assume) to put the viewpoit somewhere besides the center of gravity.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. If the whole fuselage rotates arount the cockpit, then the centre of mass would be in the cockpit. The eyepoint hasn't got much to do with it where it's rotating.
I've thrown a little simulation of a b-wing. It's not much compared to brand's b-wing, but it illustrates the idea of having the centre of mass in the cockpit and how it affects gameplay. It looks a little bit odd flying around, but not too bad. There's no mission supplied, so you'll have to make your own.
p.s. If I said centre of gravity before, I meant centre of mass. Maybe a pointless distinction, but whatever.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think the point he was trying to make was that physically the B-wing probably shouldn't rotate around the cockpit, as the centre of mass would be in the engines. Just because the cockpit rotates doesn't mean the whole ship rotates around the cockpit.
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Hmmm. So what I'm picturing here, now, is a b-wing flying in a straight line, with its cockpit spinning. Is this right?
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Hmmm. So what I'm picturing here, now, is a b-wing flying in a straight line, with its cockpit spinning. Is this right?
I think we're talking about the ship spinning around the cockpit still....right?
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Holy cow Brandx... How many ships do you do a day? I guess that may be besides the point though. Anyhow, that's a nice looking ship you've got there. :yes:
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I think we're talking about the ship spinning around the cockpit still....right?
Well, I had just looked at wookiepedia, and they don't actually say what's rotating around what. They just mention a rotating cockpit system.
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I think we're talking about the ship spinning around the cockpit still....right?
Well, I had just looked at wookiepedia, and they don't actually say what's rotating around what. They just mention a rotating cockpit system.
yeah, i think its interpertation is that it rotates so the pilot is always 'right side up' IN SPACE, so relative to the pilot, the rest of the ship spins around it, but really its just the cockpit if you think about it spinning, but could be other way around while barrel rolling
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Go Agent 5 of the TSA!
Careful... the forums have been known to be "slippery when wet". :p
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Did they ever solve the argument about putting ion cannons in the game or not? If so how many will the B-Wing have?
And Yes I meant that BSG took ideas from Star Wars. John Dykstra was one of the concept designers on episode IV. Lucas had thrown several concepts into the trash can and Dykstra took them back out and used the on BSG. Lucas sued Dykstra and lost due to the designs having been in the trash. That you can look up for your self. And this is why you don't see as much concept art for IV as you do V and VI.
Some examples as as follows:
Cylon Base ship = Death Star
Battlestars = Star Destroyer
Cylon Raider = TIE Fighter
Colonial Viper = Y-Wing (look at it dead on from the back or front. It is an upside down Y)
Centurions = Stormtroopers
Warrior uniforms = Rebel uniforms.
There were others. I just don't remember them off the top of my head.
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Hate to cite 4chan, the greatest hive of scum and villiany on the net, but you should post your source in this instance. Your information does sound quite credible, though. :yes:
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*snip*
Makes sense...
But the B-wing's engine is not on its cockpit.
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TBH I'm not sure about the TOS baseship being a rejected concept from the Death Star. I do know for sure that they came up with the ship using a greebled up empty film roll, see here:
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2edz71h.png)
Of course, that doesn't preclude the possibility that it's still a lucasfilm early Death Star concept, but I wasn't able to find anything to support this. I've also seen some concept art on the first Death Star, and from what I can tell it was always meant to look like a small moon.. could be mistaken tho. Doesn't mean that the rest of the info isn't true, TOS BSG was the poor man's Star Wars, after all.
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yeah, i think its interpertation is that it rotates so the pilot is always 'right side up' IN SPACE, so relative to the pilot, the rest of the ship spins around it, but really its just the cockpit if you think about it spinning, but could be other way around while barrel rolling
I think you've hit this on the head for the most part. The whole point of the rotation mechanism was to keep the pilot oriented with the target, despite moving the ship about. There's not too many shots of the B-Wing in the films, namely due to the fact that it was a hard ship to film. But, if there were more shots, you can be sure you'd not see the ship rolling about the cockpit. SW is famous for illogical ship design/handling aspects in many instances, but having the CM inside the canopy would be just... too stupid, even for LucasFilm. Part of the reason dogfights in SW were so fun to watch was there was some form of believeability to them... in some abstract sense, at least. If they could film more of the B-Wing, you better believe they'd not have the CM in the cockpit for this reason at least.
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My source for this predates WWW. But I have found a few links here and there.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/John_Dykstra (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/John_Dykstra) (look under BSG section there).
http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#G6 (http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#G6)
http://www.adherents.com/people/pl/George_Lucas.html (http://www.adherents.com/people/pl/George_Lucas.html)
While I have not been able to find specifics to the lawsuit, they do suggest that Dykstra took concepts for effects from SW to BSG. I might be wrong about the designs being taken from the trash, as I can find no direct evidence of this. The logic is sound in the matter as Dykstra was known to piggy back everything he did. Admittedly I was told this over twenty years ago and it could have been a game of telephone from the original lawsuit. If you can find specifics on the lawsuit as to what the "similarities" were that Fox was suing over we might be able to get clarification.
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It'd really be nice if this thread got back on topic.
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Post progress.
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It's coming, don't worry.
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Sorry Brand.
I did ask a question earlier that was on topic. Did they ever finish the debate about whether or not they were putting ion cannons in the game? if so how many are going to be on the B-Wing?
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Why wouldn't we give the B-wing ion cannons?
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Yes, of course there will be Ion cannons in game, and the B-wing will have 3. The debate was never whether we would include ion cannons, it was what sort of effect will ion cannons have.
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There was another thread at one point debating the validity of using ion cannons in this game. I think it started with a discussion as to whether or not the GUN should be brought in. Which lead to the reason it was in the X-Wing series was for it's ION cannons. And the debate went downhill from there.
Hence I was not sure IF they were going to be in the game or not.
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The debate was never whether we would include ion cannons, it was what sort of effect will ion cannons have.
Was that part settled?
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Not entirely.
Oh, and an update here on the texture:
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5975/nub02.jpg)
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holy ****!
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MWAHAHA-HA
If only I could forgive the B-Wing for its countless hours of disappointment...
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MWAHAHA-HA
If only I could forgive the B-Wing for its countless hours of disappointment...
STFU N00B... the B-wing was the be-all and end-all in XvT.
OT: Very nice, I'm looking forward to see this finished in the same quality as the previous Rebel fighters.
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STFU N00B... the B-wing was the be-all and end-all in XvT.
SILENCE, FOO!!!
Ever play X-Wing? The B-Wing has always been overplayed by LucasArts... well, not in X-Wing... but, still! Comparable to FS bombers/the Ares in many respects... packs a punch and might be fast... but it's a damn potato! (Otherwise TIE-Fodder...)
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The Ares is fast? :P
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The B-wing is fast? :p
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...I was thinking Artemis when writing that...
And the B-Wing was supposed to be pretty fast... Faster than the Y-Wing at least. Though you're going to die in a dogfight with a B-Wing, whereas the Y-Wing should be able to hold its own.
How or when should we expect to see some cockpits, Brand?
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The B-wing is a bomber. It's not supposed to be fast. And it isn't fast.
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[/quote]
packs a punch and might be fast... but it's a damn potato! (Otherwise TIE-Fodder...)
[/quote]
True. It was just me and my little TIE fighter picking off countless B-wings. The head on was the deadliest, but the TIE's agility was more than enough to avoid the b-wing's barrage of death. Once a TIE got on your back, you were pretty much dead. Same with the Y-wing.
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STFU N00B... the B-wing was the be-all and end-all in XvT.
SILENCE, FOO!!!
Ever play X-Wing? The B-Wing has always been overplayed by LucasArts... well, not in X-Wing... but, still! Comparable to FS bombers/the Ares in many respects... packs a punch and might be fast... but it's a damn potato! (Otherwise TIE-Fodder...)
BURN THE HERETIC!
;) Ok, granted the games pulled stats out of dark places, but I had heaps of fun with the B-Wing in "Balance of power", it's almost as fast as the X-Wing and has shields to shrug off almost any fighter attack. Although it's sort of sluggish, I preferred it over the Y-Wing to dogfight any day.
In XWA the B-Wing got even deadlier with the laser convergence and the ability to link lasers and ions together. A concentrated blast from all 6 guns could ruin any Imperial fighter pilots day... even those pesky TIE Advanced only could take 3 or 4 concentrated hits.
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An excellent model, well done! :yes:
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Woweee!! :eek2: She's coming along nicely, brandx0. :yes: Gorgeous.
I read someone asking about the proton torpedo tube placements earlier. If memory serves me right, the default configuration has one just above the engine cluster (between it and the cockpit pod) and one at the base within the weapon mount cluster. Speaking of which, will the B-wing's weapon load out configuration be customizable? ;7
And the B-Wing was supposed to be pretty fast... Faster than the Y-Wing at least.
Actually, you got it backwards. However, both are slower than the X-wing. Forget what you've scene in the X-wing/TIE Fighter series. lol
The B-wing is a bomber. It's not supposed to be fast. And it isn't fast.
Well technically the B-wing's combat designation is Assault Starfighter, but yeah, it's not suppose to be fast. It wasn't designed to dogfight.
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I always liked the B-Wing. Maybe not fast or designed to dogfight but correct me if I'm wrong but the B-Wing is basically the greatest amount of firepower in the smallest ship possible right? Its designed to make things bigger than it hurt... a lot.
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It was always my fighter of choice (in XWA), as it could carry a lot of torpedoes or missiles, had a lot of weapons and autoconvergence to compensate for them being spread off center.
It's only flaw was low speed and manouverability, but I learned to compensate by using it's "Corner velocity" a lot and transfering power to engines when needed (I bound ETS functions to HAT). Anything that got in front of my guns was dead in a short while and I mastered many ways to make this happen. Also, that's what I expect from FoTG B-W, to be though, well armed and sluggish, but not in the way that makes dogfighting impossible.
On a side not, are you going to make versions B-E (It would be great to fly this one in XWA, as it's even better armed and faster, but less maneuvrable, which is easy to compensate in that game), B-E2 (Ackbar's B-W, which he crashed due to sabotage), or shuttle variant (may open some interesting possibilities for FREDers)?
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The B-wing won't be an effective dogfighter, but that's not to say it won't be able to get the occasional lucky shot. But anyone stupid enough to get caught in its line of sight deserves a quick death.
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I always liked the B-Wing. Maybe not fast or designed to dogfight but correct me if I'm wrong but the B-Wing is basically the greatest amount of firepower in the smallest ship possible right? Its designed to make things bigger than it hurt... a lot.
So true. :nod:
Also, I'm with Dragon. I'd LOVE to see the B-wing/E and E-2 variants in FOTG.
The B-wing won't be an effective dogfighter, but that's not to say it won't be able to get the occasional lucky shot. But anyone stupid enough to get caught in its line of sight deserves a quick death.
I agree, but I also think a skilled B-wing pilot could get off more than a lucky shot in a fighter-to-fighter engagement. Anyone stupid enough to get caught in it's line of fire is gonna get a quick death whether they like it or not. :lol:
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In reality, I think that the initial release will have primarily the base ships. Variants will possibly show their faces later.
After all, how many variants of the X-Wing are there? T-65B, T-65C-A2, T-65D, etc., etc.
...Not to mention all the types that haven't been modeled yet...
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There are 4 versions of standard X-W that would require major remodelling, XJ Wings are more like another class of fighters.
In fact, FoTG may be interested in standard, ReconX and TandemX (larger, more torpedoes and 7 engines) versions, as the 4th one was a trainer.
There's also T65D, but it only lacked astromech droid.
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Here's my source for data on the X-Wing:
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/
Hopefully the link isn't broken. If you have to fool about the site to find the data you need, please take the time, as it's worth the read. The believe the man took a great bit of time reading through many, many novels to come up with the variants list. In fact, I like the article so much that I saved it as a word file...
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Why the "Nu" behind B-Wing?
Glorious model
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Because like in the music industry (Applies heavily in Electronic music), Nu is the word for New.
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Why the "Nu" behind B-Wing?
It's a ship so powerful, it's so easy to fly it that it's almost considered cheating. Which is why it's called a NooB-Wing, or Nu B-Wing for short.
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Hehe, not quite newman.
Ever since I started redoing my old models I added a Nu in front of them just for fun, to say that these were new versions of old models, so people wouldn't get confused. It just so happened that on the B-Wing the prefix added an odd hilarity
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It's a ship so powerful, it's so easy to fly it that it's almost considered cheating. Which is why it's called a NooB-Wing, or Nu B-Wing for short.
And it's so hard to hit. It's like the SF Dragon of Star Wars. Not only must you be very skilled, you must be flying a fighter that is almost as agile as the B-wing, and that's very, very rare.
I agree. Flying a B-wing is, for this very reason, cheating. :rolleyes:
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Where did we get the idea that the B-Wing was agile...?
The B-wing was designed to replace the aging BTL Y-wing starfighter in the heavy assault role, as it had the advantage of more weaponry and stronger shields. However, the B-wing had several weaknesses, notably being difficult to fly and lacking speed and agility. Its large hull furthermore made it an easier target and it also had less armor protection. Consequently, it never fully succeeded supplanting the Y-wing as intended.
The cockpit module of a B-wing showing the groove allowing for rotation.In particular, the rotating hull system made the B-wing a challenge to master. It also made the ship abnormally delicate; too many sharp turns could cause extreme strain to the spaceframe, and the cockpit rotation system could get stuck in one position
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It's hard to hit from behind without any assistance, but get it to cross your T and you should get a nice broadside on the big ass wing.
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I've said in the past that I didn't mind the B-Wing being faster than the Y-Wing, as it was that way in good 'ole X-Wing. However, your maneuverability was for the toilet and anything that shot at you was going to hit you. I assume the hull would, despite being so thin, be quite dense and well armored. And though the Y-Wing is very tough, the plating on the B-Wing doesn't expose "all the guts," so you might argue the hull is generally tougher than the glorious Y-Wing. However, I'd take the "Y" anyday over the B-Wing... :mad:
The B-Wing is simply not a balanced fighter. The X- and Y-Wings are capable of doing about anything, though.
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As far as I can tell the direction we're going now is to make the top speeds of the various fighters be reasonably close to each other - energy management included. So the B-wing isn't going to be dreadfully slow compared to the X-wing, for example: the B-wing's base speed is noticeably slower, but you'll get a much bigger boost when you divert all energy to engines than the X-wing would, so most of the time it'll be slower but it can still almost keep up for a while if it really needs to. The X-wing on the other hand has a pretty good regular top speed, but it doesn't gain as much from diverting all energy to engines. A TIE Interceptor or an A-wing would get even smaller speed boosts from doing the same.
Also I think the biggest differences between "fast" and "slow" fighters should be in manouverability, not raw speed. Even if the B-wing was as fast as every other ship, it still wouldn't save you in a dogfight if your manouverability was a lot worse. Besides, speed is the main ingredient in avoiding turret fire, so the B-wing might end up quite useless against bigger ships (which it's supposed to be good at striking) if it was actually a lot slower than the other fighters.
So yes, the B- and Y-wings won't be dreadfully slow. Somewhat slower and less manouverable, sure.
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As far as I can tell the direction we're going now is to make the top speeds of the various fighters be reasonably close to each other - energy management included. So the B-wing isn't going to be dreadfully slow compared to the X-wing, for example: the B-wing's base speed is noticeably slower, but you'll get a much bigger boost when you divert all energy to engines than the X-wing would, so most of the time it'll be slower but it can still almost keep up for a while if it really needs to. The X-wing on the other hand has a pretty good regular top speed, but it doesn't gain as much from diverting all energy to engines. A TIE Interceptor or an A-wing would get even smaller speed boosts from doing the same.
Also I think the biggest differences between "fast" and "slow" fighters should be in manouverability, not raw speed. Even if the B-wing was as fast as every other ship, it still wouldn't save you in a dogfight if your manouverability was a lot worse. Besides, speed is the main ingredient in avoiding turret fire, so the B-wing might end up quite useless against bigger ships (which it's supposed to be good at striking) if it was actually a lot slower than the other fighters.
So yes, the B- and Y-wings won't be dreadfully slow. Somewhat slower and less manouverable, sure.
so long as the Y can dogfight with the dance of power and throttle, I'll cope.
And the B-wing seems like it'll be mainly used in single-player campaigns for capital strikes, and in MP it'll be...interesting to say the least.
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And it's so hard to hit. It's like the SF Dragon of Star Wars. Not only must you be very skilled, you must be flying a fighter that is almost as agile as the B-wing, and that's very, very rare.
I agree. Flying a B-wing is, for this very reason, cheating. :rolleyes:
Please tell me you didn't take my comment seriously. I mean, I actually said the craft's name is n00b-wing, come on..
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Oh? I did. I missed the :rolleyes: smiley that's often used to indicate sarcasm.
Sorry for the countersarcasm then. :D
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Did they ever film the B-Wing sequence for Return of the Jedi? I know they were planning to do it but cut it because the ship was hard to film. If there is actually footage is that floating around somewhere in the interwebs?
Edit>>I should clarify, supposedly there was going to be a B-Wing specific segment highlighting there usage like popping an ISD or something. I am not referring to the mixed fighter shots and strike foil change.
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Did they ever film the B-Wing sequence for Return of the Jedi? I know they were planning to do it but cut it because the ship was hard to film. If there is actually footage is that floating around somewhere in the interwebs?
Edit>>I should clarify, supposedly there was going to be a B-Wing specific segment highlighting there usage like popping an ISD or something. I am not referring to the mixed fighter shots and strike foil change.
I keep thinking there is a scene featuring them specially, but alas, i have yet to see it, but keep thinking it exists. its maddening .
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Don't you see a few opening their S-Spoilers on the Battle of Endor?
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It's a three-second segment, and that's it for the B-wing.
Maybe you can see some during the "Departure to Endor" scene when the Alliance fleet is jumping from Sullust.
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So it's like the Badger (Two-seat) Starfury, only shows up on one episode for two seconds on the entire series. :P
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Well, you see the B-wings in multiple shots when they're jumping from Sullust, then in a couple of shots when approaching the Death Star and opening S-foils, and in two more shots when they're pulling up. After that, no trace of them whatsoever.
They're also the only fighter which is never seen firing. Even the Y-wing and A-wing are both seen firing their lasers once (and the A-wings of course also firing missiles at Executor's dome).
I'm sure Adywan will insert a few into the background during the fight scenes, though.
P.S. Extra cookie for whoever knows in which scene the A-wing is seen firing its lasers, it's pretty easy to miss.
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When they destroy the Executor's shield generator, of course.
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Aren't those concussion missiles?
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They fired those in quick succession, but they were a bit thick to be lasers, so I don't know.
I rewatched the battle. One A-wing shoots a single projectile right after Wedge says: "Good shot, Red 2." It's when you can see a lone frigate harrassing an ISD's side.
As for the SSD scene: Whatever the A-wings shoot then, it makes a sound that's more like the sound of laser fire. The concussion missiles that were fired at the reactor make somewhat of a different sound, however.
Whatever. :nervous: The battle wasn't made to be analyzed in such depths.
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Whatever. :nervous: The battle wasn't made to be analyzed in such depths.
The fact that we can sit around and do such analysis is why I love you guys so much.
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They fired those in quick succession, but they were a bit thick to be lasers, so I don't know.
I rewatched the battle. One A-wing shoots a single projectile right after Wedge says: "Good shot, Red 2." It's when you can see a lone frigate harrassing an ISD's side.
Correct! And if you look closely, that shot even hits one of the TIEs, sending it crashing into the ISD.
As for the SSD scene: Whatever the A-wings shoot then, it makes a sound that's more like the sound of laser fire. The concussion missiles that were fired at the reactor make somewhat of a different sound, however.
I'm sure one could come up with some different interpretations of what exactly happens on-screen in those scenes, but so far we've chosen the following assumptions: the A-wings shoot Dymek HM-6 missiles missiles at the dome, so that's what HM-6's will look and sound like. The Falcon shoots Arakyd ST2 missiles at the core, so that's what ST2's will look and sound like. Of course we don't really know what missiles the ships were equipped with, but HM-6 and ST2 were picked simply because they'll probably be the most common missiles in FotG, meaning that the familiar and recognizable effects will get the most screen time.
Whatever. :nervous: The battle wasn't made to be analyzed in such depths.
Maybe not, but if I need reference material for some kind of an effect for example, I'd still rather grab that from a couple of isolated frames from the movie than by just coming up with something entirely on my own.
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Of course they could be bigger then normal laser shots due to power redirection ala the AT-AT taking out the power generator in ESB.
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Not so fast. They aren't originating from where the laser cannons are mounted either. ;)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Not so fast. They aren't originating from where the laser cannons are mounted either. ;)
well spotted.
its also a bit yellow-ish to be a laser.
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Pic is a bit on the small side, but from what I can tell the color and shape seem to be consistent with missile exhaust. What we need are those CSI guys to do a picture analysis with their magical equipment.. Like this (http://eatliver.com/img/2009/4914.jpg).
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hehe, lol.
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Here from the SW databank:
Behind the Scenes
The peculiar shape of the B-wing fighter worked against it in earning screen time. The extremely thin front and back views of the fighter made it all but disappear in shots against space, so many of the planned B-wing sequences were cut from the film.
My question did they bother to film it and cut it or not at all? If it was filmed is it somewhere?
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Here from the SW databank:
Behind the Scenes
The peculiar shape of the B-wing fighter worked against it in earning screen time. The extremely thin front and back views of the fighter made it all but disappear in shots against space, so many of the planned B-wing sequences were cut from the film.
My question did they bother to film it and cut it or not at all? If it was filmed is it somewhere?
methinks they wanted to demonstrate wartime development and the progression of the alliance tech, similar to the introduction of the TIE interceptor.
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I know of no deleted scene that features the B-wing. I know, however, that a couple of concept drawings were made for the B-wing. There's one in which you can see some (three/four?) B-wings with an ISD that's about to explode in the background.
And judging from the wording of the Databank excerpt, there were more scenes that would have featured the B-wing, but they were filmed but cut. I suppose they didn't make those scenes public.
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Or it could mean that filming them were too difficult and the storyboarded scenes were never actually filmed.
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Brand, did you finish this model? I know you've moved on to the TIE Interceptor - is that just a break from your other projects or is the B-Wing complete? I'm trying to pull together all your finished Wallpaper renders to shuffle through my desktop - do you have those all in one place or do I need to search through the individual threads for them?
Thanks!
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Well there's always the FotG Screenshots (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/sshot.php) browser.
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Hehe, no the B-Wing is not finished, I was getting a bit frustrated with some things on it and decided to take a break for a while with the Interceptor.
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Done, minus dirt of course:
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3323/nub03.jpg)
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Righteos awesome, Brand. When do we get the cockpit?
:p
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Dirt you say. How much you need I just picked up a whole truckload?
Back on topic. Have you thought about keeping the clean ones for alternate textures? They had to be new at some point.
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Done, minus dirt of course:
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3323/nub03.jpg)
Whoah, baby! :jaw: She's gorgeous! It's about time, brand. lol :yes: :yes2: Can't wait to see her all dirtied up. ;7
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I always keep my dirt on separate layers, so there's no need to worry about keeping separate dirty and clean versions
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Woohoo! I'm so glad you finished this one - it looks amazing. I look forward to seeing final dirtied version so I can add this to my desktop wallpaper rotation!
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Aaaand we're done
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5905/bwingfinal.jpg)
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Lookin' good :yes:
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Ummm, pardon me while I have an aneurysm...
Guuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh...
Ok, yes, that is quite good work you've done there. It looks excellent. Yes.
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You da man! So what's your next project going to be? Gonna put some more into the Star Destroyer or do some more smaller projects first?
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I'll probably pop out another smaller one or two before I go back to the ISD, that one takes a lot out of me hehe
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:yes: Well done. I especially like the laser cannons and the wheel-like something behind the cockpit.
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I always keep my dirt on separate layers, so there's no need to worry about keeping separate dirty and clean versions
And you regularly back those up on the FTP now. Right? :nod:
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Fan-freak'n-tastic, brand! The weathering adds just the right real-world touch.
I would love a FOTG wallpaper with Y, X, A, and B-wing fighters getting ready to engage Imperial forces. That would be insane. lol
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Very cool. I like it.
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LODded, converted and committed at last.
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I'm looking forward to see it in action and to fly it myself to blow up some Frigates. :)
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I'm looking forward to see it in action and to fly it myself to blow up some Frigates. :)
That'll require Frigates to be in game...I don't think we've heard from the guy who was working on that for over a year.
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Carrack, Strike and Dreadnought cruisers are in. B/Ws work quite well against these.
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That and we're getting quite close to having a finished ISD. B-Wings vs ISD....mmmmm, me likey.
(http://www.topwallpapers.com/gif/wallpapers/movies/bwing_1024.jpg)
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Hmm, your image makes my antivirus go nuts...
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Maybe it's the domain it's hosted on? Either way, I just posted that in IRC the other day, seems people are a fan of that particular image.
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Yeah, it's a good one! It was included in a star-wars poster pack I got when I was a kid. Either way...I just grabbed it off google image search. Strange it would do things to your AV...
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Indeed. It's old school, it's E-P-I-C, and it's a crime the scene wasn't added to the Special Edition.
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Can't add a scene that was never filmed. It was just a publicity shot, IIRC
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Can't add a scene that was never filmed. It was just a publicity shot, IIRC
There were scenes that were planned for RotJ involving the B-wing, but problems with blue screen tech at the time and the fighter's slim profile made it very difficult to shoot. So the scenes were scrapped. What I meant was that they should've done the scenes with modern film fx for RotJ:SE. Same principal as the added scenes for the Battle of Yavin in ANH:SE.
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Can't add a scene that was never filmed. It was just a publicity shot, IIRC
There were scenes that were planned for RotJ involving the B-wing, but problems with blue screen tech at the time and the fighter's slim profile made it very difficult to shoot. So the scenes were scrapped. What I meant was that they should've done the scenes with modern film fx for RotJ:SE. Same principal as the added scenes for the Battle of Yavin in ANH:SE.
Well, the thing is that as far as I can tell, nothing actually got added to ANH:SE. All they did was replace old poor scenes with new ones. Adding completely new scenes is probably really difficult to do without badly breaking the flow of the scenes, with ANH:Revisited being a prime example.
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Yeah, I really liked Adywan's version for the most part, but that TIE intro scene just sticks out like a sore thumb. The music pops out of nowhere, the long lingering shot doesn't really fit with the style of the rest of the scene, and that weird camera pan just doesn't work for me at all.
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I agree. While I do love what Adywan has done (his attention to detail and meticulous adjustments are inspiring), there are several things I would have done differently.
Regardless, combat scenes with the B-wing were going to be in the Battle of Endor, but the ship's unique shape coupled with early '80s film fx 'caused them to get scrapped. That can all be done now, no problem, and I doubt there's anyone here who wouldn't love to actually see the B-wing kick ass in RotJ. ;)
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We'd all love to see that. Hey, maybe Lucas'll put it on the second Blu-Ray release he does...
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Along with flashbacks and random Gungans dancing in the background of various shots.