Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghostavo on October 08, 2009, 11:17:00 am
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U.S. Court: Software is Owned, Not Licensed (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/AutoCAD-Autodesk-Court-License-Software,news-4806.html)
Autodesk said that its products are licensed, not owned. A recent ruling says otherwise.
Most software publishers believe that their products are licensed, not owned. Most consumers disagree, saying that once they shell out the ridiculous gobs of money for said products, it's theirs for keeps no matter what publishers claim. This mentality especially holds true for Windows, with consumers purchasing one copy and installing it on multiple PCs. But as most consumers already know, Microsoft squashed those hopes and dreams with the release of Genuine Advantage, making it impossible for multiple installations without applying a WGA crack.
But there may now be some hope for consumers. In its battle to prevent the second-hand sale of its software, Autodesk has discovered that the "products are licensed" theory just doesn't jive with the government. According to Out-Law, the US District Court for the Western District of Washington is backing eBay retailer Timothy Vernor who was selling legitimate copies of Autodesk software in his eBay store.
Originally, Autodesk said Vernor didn't have the right to sell the software, claiming copyright infringement because the company only sells licenses. The court disagreed, and said that Vernor had every right to sell the software in his eBay store. The court based its decision on the previous "Wise" case, a ruling that said an actress had ownership over a Hollywood film because the rights were transferred to her name via a previous agreement.
With that said, the court made a groundbreaking decision that may effect every software publisher from here on out. "The Autodesk License is a hodgepodge of terms that, standing alone, support both a transfer of ownership and a mere license," the ruling dictated. However, the court eventually concluded that the previous Wise case "leads to the conclusion that the transfer of AutoCAD copies via the License is a transfer of ownership."
So what do you people make of this?
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:yes:
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About frakking time! I'm non too bothered about the ownership/licence thing but I can't help but feel angry whenever I hear about some company trying to stop second-hand sales. If I'm non too mistaken there was a big legal uproar about second hand videogame sales in Japan some years ago...
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Hallelujah!
Now to wait and see if a higher court holds fast.
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Victory!
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I wonder what EA will do now.
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I wonder what EA will do now.
starforce 4
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ive always hated the idea of software licencing. to me, i just assume most eulas say we can screw you over any way we see fit. i can understand one copy one user, or one copy one computer. but when they start throwing in ridiculous and arbitrary requirements, such as requiring an internet connection for single player games, or requiring that you keep the disk in your drive (flipping disks has always annoyed me). i can pirate software and avoid these software annoyances, and by extensions the pirates are offering better products than the retail version. essentially the cripple their software to protect it. why protect crap? its just anti-consumerism. weve gone from a customer is always right attitude to a customer is cattle attitude, and no one seems to give a ****.
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I for one advocate raging against the machine. :yes:
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The quote should say affect not effect. . . .
:nervous:
I'm happy with the subject content though.
At last I can buy a copy of Flash CS4. Cheap.
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This just means they will go away from selling the software and everything will be download only or played from a central server like on demand movies. Since you will never own a physical copy this will become irrelevant. They will probably even take it a step farther and you will have to license it for a period and it will auto-erase from your machine like a PPV movie does from a DVR.
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Well i'm just going to hoard current software. . . Screw cloud format software. Screw it in the ear.
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This just means they will go away from selling the software and everything will be download only or played from a central server like on demand movies. Since you will never own a physical copy this will become irrelevant. They will probably even take it a step farther and you will have to license it for a period and it will auto-erase from your machine like a PPV movie does from a DVR.
At which point the pirates step in and anally violate the whole industry and it crashes and burns. And rightfully so, because that's a completely predictable consequence.
Come now, they're not actually stupid. Just greedy.
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How many people are going to take their equipment apart and replace chips required to run the content? This is what it will come down to. Again I will compare it to a DVR. It's nothing but a Linux based machine with proprietary technology that does what it is told to by the company that you subscribe to who have to. For instance DirecTV already auto erases downloads and gives you no way to transfer them to anywhere except maybe a DVD player but that is limited to only 640x480 res. HD can't be backed up. How long before this type of system becomes a requirement for PC hardware as well? The average end user is just going to by it and go with the flow just like with cell phones and MP3 players. Sure there will still be hackers making the stuff but once it becomes hardware that needs hacked it becomes a whole new ballgame.
Not saying I like any of it. On the contrary I hate the whole system and think you out to be able to transfer any software/music/video to any device that will support it freely and not making software that can run on all consoles and PCs should be illegal.
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The main reason I object to iPhone :nod:
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Hallelujah!
Now to wait and see if a higher court holds fast.
Yeah, you can bet this is going to go to appeal. Supreme Court, watch out!
But in the meantime :nod:
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like i bought red faction guerrilla like 2 days ago and was deeply dispapointed that it required an internet connection to save your game. this is the second game ive bought that had some bat**** insane activation schema. i dont see why developers of all people would cripple their games and other software on purpose with arbitrary system requirements that are such only to protect the software. this whole games for window crap really has me pissed off to no end. if theyre gonna keep doing this i can change my policy about not pirating games.
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Not so Nuke. You only need an online G4WL account if you want achievements. I pirated both RF:G and RE5 and I was able to save on both with an offline G4WL account.
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Maybe because you pirated them?
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Don't think so. Not sure though.
EDIT: The crack was probably for the inevitable disk check, not anything to do with G4WL. Nuke, have you tried making an offline G4WL account and trying to save that way?
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Sounds really cool, but I'm skeptical that the higher courts will agree with this ruling.
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i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
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i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
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i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!
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i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!
Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
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Its about fraking time! :) :yes: :yes:
Hmmm EA was mentioned.....
Frak em, they have been pissing on customers for a while now
The earlier poster was probably right about 'starforce 4' only this time, they will probably want a blood and urine sample to proves your the one using the product :p
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i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!
Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
I installed a hard-copy of it, and it makes you connect to activate it. Twice, actually. Once during install, and once during boot.
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http://www.tweakguides.com/CrysisWar_2.html
Connection to the Intenet for activation of Crysis Warhead is only required upon installation, and when installing updates. At other times you do not need to be connected to the Internet to play Warhead.
Q.E.D.
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It's good to know that we're talking about Crysis Warhead, and not Crysis. And that my personal experience with the product is a complete fabrication. :yes:
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Well, the original Crysis has no online verification whatsoever, so one assumes he's talking about Warhead.
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Well, the original Crysis has no online verification whatsoever, so one assumes he's talking about Warhead.
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!
Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
I installed a hard-copy of it, and it makes you connect to activate it. Twice, actually. Once during install, and once during boot.
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http://www.tweakguides.com/Crysis_4.html
Crysis is protected by SecuROM copy protection, which requires a serial number during installation, and for online gameplay. It also contains a disk check component, which means you need to keep the DVD in the drive during play. It does not contain any activation or other online verification systems.
Well, I don't know what to say.
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no it was warhead. i took some games with me on one of my trips to the woods. and it wouldnt run because i had no internet to activate. i think its ridiculous that they expect everyone who buys their product is an urbanite with a 20 megabit connection. i was only visiting and i found this annoyig, but what about my brother in law, a big time gamer, who lives almost entirely off the grid. how do they expect him to use a product that he bought fair and square. creating unneccisary requirements is a really stupid idea. so my advice was to not buy any games with "games for windows" on the package.
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Then I assume you either installed it on your way to the woods, or didn't run it beforehand?
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thats not the point. the point is that its an unneccisary requirement that shouldnt be there. if i feel like i get ripped off one more time then il just resort to piracy for games. if these companies have no respect for their consumers then i will have no respect for their bottom line.
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Fair enough.
Although, while I dislike protection schemes that make the product unusable when the company goes bankrupt, I must say that I don't see many pleasant ways for companies to reduce piracy (that is, taking pricing and availability aside). Game keys and other such gimmicks are too easily bypassed and disk checks are following the same trend.
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Stardock and Ironclad have done that quite effectively with Sins. Although an internet connection is required to acquire and update the games, once they're on your computer, they're entirely yours.
I am unaware of any pirated version of the latest version of Sins.
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Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
Unless you bought it from the EA store as a download, in which case the Download Manager must be run which requires an internet connection.
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This whole license thing was bull**** from the beginning. When I buy a piece of software, its mine. This is also why i hate subscription software.
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So do we all.
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SO SAY WE ALL!!!
FixOred for the great justice. :D
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i will never use subscription software nor will i pay for downloads. it just seems like its too easy for them to screw me out of my money.
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So what will you do when sale of software by physical medium becomes less and less commonplace?
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Spore, spore, spore, spore. . . .
Worst of the bunch, sparked limited installs as a trend. I hope the guy that envisioned the concept gets hit by a refuse truck full of Aids shrapnel from the Leprecy wars.
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Independent software developers need a cheap retail solution, since people apparently dislike buying software online.
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Oh I don't mind buying software online as it's often cheaper, and i'm almost guaranteed to find classic titles that I wouldn't find in the average high street retailer. But I resent my software being tied into internet dependant use for authorisation or play like some terminally ill old codger hooked up to life support (steam) why? Bandwith limits and fair use policy. .Dawn of War 2? Ridiculous patch size. . .
I appreciate it's convenient for some people, just not for me. ;)
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i buy software online, but not downloads. i have to have physical media that i can store and backup as needed.
i may have said this already, but not everyone has a fast connection or unlimited transfer. i know i get charged extra if i go over 4 gb. and its a 512kbit connection shared between two computers.
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Change to Finland (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Finland-Broadband-Legal-Right,8858.html) then. :p
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well not everybody lives in finland
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/me ignores everything on pages 2 and 3
The quote should say affect not effect. . . .
I also noticed that.
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What can I say, it's like using piece instead of peace. . . Or they're instead of their. It drives me Loco Bananas!
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their their now.
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Loco Bananas I say! :mad:
The day that I need to buy a dedicated land line to play new releases is the day I switch to console for life. Although saying that, isn't the new PSP rom only or something like that?