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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghostavo on October 08, 2009, 11:17:00 am

Title: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 08, 2009, 11:17:00 am
U.S. Court: Software is Owned, Not Licensed (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/AutoCAD-Autodesk-Court-License-Software,news-4806.html)

Quote
Autodesk said that its products are licensed, not owned. A recent ruling says otherwise.

Most software publishers believe that their products are licensed, not owned. Most consumers disagree, saying that once they shell out the ridiculous gobs of money for said products, it's theirs for keeps no matter what publishers claim. This mentality especially holds true for Windows, with consumers purchasing one copy and installing it on multiple PCs. But as most consumers already know, Microsoft squashed those hopes and dreams with the release of Genuine Advantage, making it impossible for multiple installations without applying a WGA crack.

But there may now be some hope for consumers. In its battle to prevent the second-hand sale of its software, Autodesk has discovered that the "products are licensed" theory just doesn't jive with the government. According to Out-Law, the US District Court for the Western District of Washington is backing eBay retailer Timothy Vernor who was selling legitimate copies of Autodesk software in his eBay store.

Originally, Autodesk said Vernor didn't have the right to sell the software, claiming copyright infringement because the company only sells licenses. The court disagreed, and said that Vernor had every right to sell the software in his eBay store. The court based its decision on the previous "Wise" case, a ruling that said an actress had ownership over a Hollywood film because the rights were transferred to her name via a previous agreement.

With that said, the court made a groundbreaking decision that may effect every software publisher from here on out. "The Autodesk License is a hodgepodge of terms that, standing alone, support both a transfer of ownership and a mere license," the ruling dictated. However, the court eventually concluded that the previous Wise case "leads to the conclusion that the transfer of AutoCAD copies via the License is a transfer of ownership."

So what do you people make of this?
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: jr2 on October 08, 2009, 11:22:02 am
:yes:
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: butter_pat_head on October 08, 2009, 12:12:29 pm
About frakking time!  I'm non too bothered about the ownership/licence thing but I can't help but feel angry whenever I hear about some company trying to stop second-hand sales.  If I'm non too mistaken there was a big legal uproar about second hand videogame sales in Japan some years ago...
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: BloodEagle on October 08, 2009, 12:39:25 pm
Hallelujah!

Now to wait and see if a higher court holds fast.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Topgun on October 11, 2009, 12:52:24 pm
Victory!
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Locutus of Borg on October 11, 2009, 12:57:29 pm
I wonder what EA will do now.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Topgun on October 11, 2009, 01:07:14 pm
I wonder what EA will do now.
starforce 4
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 12, 2009, 03:34:14 pm
ive always hated the idea of software licencing. to me, i just assume most eulas say we can screw you over any way we see fit. i can understand one copy one user, or one copy one computer. but when they start throwing in ridiculous and arbitrary requirements, such as requiring an internet connection for single player games, or requiring that you keep the disk in your drive (flipping disks has always annoyed me). i can pirate software and avoid these software annoyances, and by extensions the pirates are offering better products than the retail version. essentially the cripple their software to protect it. why protect crap? its just anti-consumerism. weve gone from a customer is always right attitude to a customer is cattle attitude, and no one seems to give a ****.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Thaeris on October 12, 2009, 03:38:11 pm
I for one advocate raging against the machine.  :yes:
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 12, 2009, 03:44:15 pm
The quote should say affect not effect. . . .
 
 
:nervous:
 
 
I'm happy with the subject content though.
 
At last I can buy a copy of Flash CS4. Cheap.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 12, 2009, 03:45:15 pm
This just means they will go away from selling the software and everything will be download only or played from a central server like on demand movies.  Since you will never own a physical copy this will become irrelevant.  They will probably even take it a step farther and you will have to license it for a period and it will auto-erase from your machine like a PPV movie does from a DVR.  
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 12, 2009, 04:08:34 pm
Well i'm just going to hoard current software. . . Screw cloud format software. Screw it in the ear.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 12, 2009, 04:16:39 pm
This just means they will go away from selling the software and everything will be download only or played from a central server like on demand movies.  Since you will never own a physical copy this will become irrelevant.  They will probably even take it a step farther and you will have to license it for a period and it will auto-erase from your machine like a PPV movie does from a DVR.  

At which point the pirates step in and anally violate the whole industry and it crashes and burns. And rightfully so, because that's a completely predictable consequence.

Come now, they're not actually stupid. Just greedy.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 12, 2009, 04:34:38 pm
How many people are going to take their equipment apart and replace chips required to run the content?  This is what it will come down to.  Again I will compare it to a DVR.  It's nothing but a Linux based machine with proprietary technology that does what it is told to by the company that you subscribe to who have to.  For instance DirecTV already auto erases downloads and gives you no way to transfer them to anywhere except maybe a DVD player but that is limited to only 640x480 res.  HD can't be backed up.  How long before this type of system becomes a requirement for PC hardware as well?  The average end user is just going to by it and go with the flow just like with cell phones and MP3 players.  Sure there will still be hackers making the stuff but once it becomes hardware that needs hacked it becomes a whole new ballgame. 

Not saying I like any of it.  On the contrary I hate the whole system and think you out to be able to transfer any software/music/video to any device that will support it freely and not making software that can run on all consoles and PCs should be illegal. 

Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 12, 2009, 04:41:42 pm
The main reason I object to iPhone :nod:
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: carbine7 on October 12, 2009, 04:56:32 pm
Hallelujah!

Now to wait and see if a higher court holds fast.
Yeah, you can bet this is going to go to appeal. Supreme Court, watch out!
But in the meantime  :nod:
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 12, 2009, 06:39:39 pm
like i bought red faction guerrilla like 2 days ago and was deeply dispapointed that it required an internet connection to save your game. this is the second game ive bought that had some bat**** insane activation schema. i dont see why developers of all people would cripple their games and other software on purpose with arbitrary system requirements that are such only to protect the software. this whole games for window crap really has me pissed off to no end. if theyre gonna keep doing this i can change my policy about not pirating games.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 12, 2009, 06:42:32 pm
Not so Nuke.  You only need an online G4WL account if you want achievements.  I pirated both RF:G and RE5 and I was able to save on both with an offline G4WL account.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Topgun on October 12, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
Maybe because you pirated them?
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 12, 2009, 07:11:04 pm
Don't think so.  Not sure though.

EDIT: The crack was probably for the inevitable disk check, not anything to do with G4WL.  Nuke, have you tried making an offline G4WL account and trying to save that way?
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ioustinos on October 12, 2009, 08:45:35 pm
Sounds really cool, but I'm skeptical that the higher courts will agree with this ruling.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 12, 2009, 10:18:32 pm
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 01:11:44 am
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.

If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: BloodEagle on October 13, 2009, 02:32:43 am
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.

If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.

Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 12:40:41 pm
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.

If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.

Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!

Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: TESLA on October 13, 2009, 01:42:21 pm
Its about fraking time! :)  :yes:  :yes:

Hmmm EA was mentioned.....

Frak em, they have been pissing on customers for a while now

The earlier poster was probably right about 'starforce 4' only this time, they will probably want a blood and urine sample to proves your the one using the product  :p
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: BloodEagle on October 13, 2009, 01:51:44 pm
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.

If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.

Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!

Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.

I installed a hard-copy of it, and it makes you connect to activate it. Twice, actually. Once during install, and once during boot.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 01:57:16 pm
http://www.tweakguides.com/CrysisWar_2.html

Quote
Connection to the Intenet for activation of Crysis Warhead is only required upon installation, and when installing updates. At other times you do not need to be connected to the Internet to play Warhead.

Q.E.D.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: BloodEagle on October 13, 2009, 02:09:22 pm
It's good to know that we're talking about Crysis Warhead, and not Crysis. And that my personal experience with the product is a complete fabrication.  :yes:
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 02:40:15 pm
Well, the original Crysis has no online verification whatsoever, so one assumes he's talking about Warhead.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: BloodEagle on October 13, 2009, 04:45:31 pm
Well, the original Crysis has no online verification whatsoever, so one assumes he's talking about Warhead.
i know oen of my crysis games i took to the wods and couldnt play it because we have no internet out there.

If you buy anything from Steam, are you that surprised it requires an internet connection? Valve is like a pioneer of internet required games for reasons of copy protection.

Wait. What? When did Valve make Crysis!? WHO ARE YOU!? IT'S A COOKBOOK!!

Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.

I installed a hard-copy of it, and it makes you connect to activate it. Twice, actually. Once during install, and once during boot.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 04:52:00 pm
http://www.tweakguides.com/Crysis_4.html

Quote
Crysis is protected by SecuROM copy protection, which requires a serial number during installation, and for online gameplay. It also contains a disk check component, which means you need to keep the DVD in the drive during play. It does not contain any activation or other online verification systems.

Well, I don't know what to say.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 13, 2009, 05:02:51 pm
no it was warhead. i took some games with me on one of my trips to the woods. and it wouldnt run because i had no internet to activate. i think its ridiculous that they expect everyone who buys their product is an urbanite with a 20 megabit connection. i was only visiting and i found this annoyig, but what about my brother in law, a big time gamer, who lives almost entirely off the grid. how do they expect him to use a product that he bought fair and square. creating unneccisary requirements is a really stupid idea. so my advice was to not buy any games with "games for windows" on the package.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 05:06:34 pm
Then I assume you either installed it on your way to the woods, or didn't run it beforehand?
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 13, 2009, 05:10:26 pm
thats not the point. the point is that its an unneccisary requirement that shouldnt be there. if i feel like i get ripped off one more time then il just resort to piracy for games. if these companies have no respect for their consumers then i will have no respect for their bottom line.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 13, 2009, 05:33:22 pm
Fair enough.

Although, while I dislike protection schemes that make the product unusable when the company goes bankrupt, I must say that I don't see many pleasant ways for companies to reduce piracy (that is, taking pricing and availability aside). Game keys and other such gimmicks are too easily bypassed and disk checks are following the same trend.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Mars on October 13, 2009, 05:57:58 pm
Stardock and Ironclad have done that quite effectively with Sins. Although an internet connection is required to acquire and update the games, once they're on your computer, they're entirely yours.

I am unaware of any pirated version of the latest version of Sins.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: carbine7 on October 13, 2009, 06:17:54 pm
Quote
Well, Crysis by itself doesn't have any internet connection requirements, so I assume he bought it from Steam and it has some sort of internet connection in it's requirements.
Unless you bought it from the EA store as a download, in which case the Download Manager must be run which requires an internet connection.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: blackhole on October 13, 2009, 08:00:23 pm
This whole license thing was bull**** from the beginning. When I buy a piece of software, its mine. This is also why i hate subscription software.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: carbine7 on October 13, 2009, 09:45:08 pm
So do we all.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Thaeris on October 13, 2009, 09:51:14 pm
SO SAY WE ALL!!!

FixOred for the great justice.  :D
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 14, 2009, 03:16:52 pm
i will never use subscription software nor will i pay for downloads. it just seems like its too easy for them to screw me out of my money.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 14, 2009, 03:18:41 pm
So what will you do when sale of software by physical medium becomes less and less commonplace?
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 14, 2009, 05:30:52 pm
Spore, spore, spore, spore. . . .
 
Worst of the bunch, sparked limited installs as a trend. I hope the guy that envisioned the concept gets hit by a refuse truck full of Aids shrapnel from the Leprecy wars.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: blackhole on October 14, 2009, 06:05:42 pm
Independent software developers need a cheap retail solution, since people apparently dislike buying software online.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 15, 2009, 01:59:08 am
Oh I don't mind buying software online as it's often cheaper, and i'm almost guaranteed to find classic titles that I wouldn't find in the average high street retailer. But I resent my software being tied into internet dependant use for authorisation or play like some terminally ill old codger hooked up to life support (steam) why? Bandwith limits and fair use policy.  .Dawn of War 2? Ridiculous patch size. . .
 
I appreciate it's convenient for some people, just not for me. ;)
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 15, 2009, 05:40:01 am
i buy software online, but not downloads. i have to have physical media that i can store and backup as needed.

i may have said this already, but not everyone has a fast connection or unlimited transfer. i know i get charged extra if i go over 4 gb. and its a 512kbit connection shared between two computers.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Ghostavo on October 15, 2009, 07:15:41 am
Change to Finland (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Finland-Broadband-Legal-Right,8858.html) then.  :p
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Nuke on October 15, 2009, 02:47:24 pm
well not everybody lives in finland
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Aardwolf on October 15, 2009, 03:18:54 pm
/me ignores everything on pages 2 and 3

The quote should say affect not effect. . . .

I also noticed that.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 15, 2009, 03:33:11 pm
What can I say, it's like using piece instead of peace. . . Or they're instead of their. It drives me Loco Bananas!
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Bobboau on October 16, 2009, 01:05:10 am
their their now.
Title: Re: Software licencing and ownership
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 16, 2009, 03:51:52 am
Loco Bananas I say! :mad:
 
The day that I need to buy a dedicated land line to play new releases is the day I switch to console for life. Although saying that, isn't the new PSP rom only or something like that?