Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Kolgena on October 10, 2009, 09:44:51 am

Title: Soft Particles
Post by: Kolgena on October 10, 2009, 09:44:51 am
I'm sure this has been mentioned previously, but I was just wondering what it would take to implement soft particles in FS, and whether anyone's working on that right now.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Nighteyes on October 10, 2009, 01:57:16 pm
Soft Particles? and what exactly are those? and why are they needed? from what I see all particle systems right now are pretty ok... they only lack a bit of tuning options...
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Sushi on October 10, 2009, 02:32:44 pm
As far as I can tell based on 5-minute research, soft particles make billboard particles look better when they intersect with geometry. In FS2 terms, this would probably be most useful for making explosions and fountains on ships look more natural.

I don't think anyone's working on it right now, so if you're interested, feel free. :) The idea sounds simple enough, but I'm not sure what degree of computational complexity is involved.

http://www.makingartstudios.com/research.shtml
http://www.naixela.com/alex/

(http://www.naixela.com/alex/screens/softparticles.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Nighteyes on October 10, 2009, 02:42:39 pm
ahh I see, and you'r right, it dosn't sound complex, only feather out intersecting edges... :)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Aardwolf on October 10, 2009, 03:27:22 pm
Well, no...

It would probably be done on the graphics card, and would involve comparing current fragment depth (i.e. the distance of the object showing in the pixel to be drawn on) to the distance to the particle being drawn. Although I'm sure it could be done without shaders, I'm not sure it would be worthwhile.

I actually suggested this, eons ago, but some reason nobody seemed to care.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Bobboau on October 11, 2009, 01:54:29 am
because at the time, four people had the hardware to handle it.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Hery on October 11, 2009, 04:10:53 am
I'm going to implement soft particles when I finish my post-processing code and start working on some more advanced effects.

@Bobboau: I think I will be able to make it working on machines that can handle shaders and post-processing. However, I'm not sure if simplified implementation will look good enough :P
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Snail on October 11, 2009, 06:05:24 am
I'm going to implement soft particles when I finish my post-processing code and start working on some more advanced effects.
Awesome. :)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Kolgena on October 11, 2009, 10:09:50 am
I'm going to implement soft particles when I finish my post-processing code and start working on some more advanced effects.

@Bobboau: I think I will be able to make it working on machines that can handle shaders and post-processing. However, I'm not sure if simplified implementation will look good enough :P

Hero status right here.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: portej05 on October 11, 2009, 10:16:58 am
Hero status right here.

He's already got it :P
I haven't seen as much excitement on HLP as when he posted that PostProcessing code :P
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Bobboau on October 11, 2009, 12:10:18 pm
note I said 'at the time' last time I remember this being talked about was like 2005ish
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Aardwolf on October 11, 2009, 01:37:56 pm
because at the time, four people had the hardware to handle it.

note I said 'at the time' last time I remember this being talked about was like 2005ish

Nah, I think it was probably 2007/2008. I can probably check, even though it really doesn't matter.

Edit: yeah, Groundhog's Day of 2008: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=51976.0
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Nuke on October 11, 2009, 04:36:02 pm
Soft Particles? and what exactly are those? and why are they needed? from what I see all particle systems right now are pretty ok... they only lack a bit of tuning options...

dont get me started on this, freespace's particle system sucks, because its not really a particle system so much as a sprite system. particles are supposed to be used in large numbers to create the desired effect, and the number of particles that can be rendered effectively is kinda low. now if were using a few big poofs this idea is awesome. but when you want to do a lot of simple particles this becomes a bad idea. i think we should be able to have 2 kinds of particles, pointsprites and quads. the latter would work as the picture above shows, and is softened. the former would be single color points with maybe some blurring applied and would be hard culled whenever possible. the uses would be distinct, the point sprites would bebetter suited for weapon effects while the quads would be better suited to damage spews.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Pottuvoi on October 12, 2009, 03:33:32 am
This would fix the engine glow clipping.

Nebula had quite bad particle intersections as well, this would fix that nicely.
At least until someone thinks easy and good way to do nebula properly. ;)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Commander Zane on October 12, 2009, 04:15:00 am
I thought nebula clipping was already fixed.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Nighteyes on October 12, 2009, 12:01:45 pm
Personally I think that if its processor heavy, and hard to implement it shouldn't be a concern, some high profile game that are coming out today still don't use this, and especially with the new bloom effect the problem is covered up pretty nicely IMO :)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Aardwolf on October 12, 2009, 07:39:33 pm
I thought nebula clipping was already fixed.

Well, sort of. They made the effect entirely camera-space now. The problem with that is that all poofs are 100% visible (rather than having an actual distance to them, and being visible depending on the proximity of other objects)
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: General Battuta on October 12, 2009, 07:42:20 pm
Is that why the nebula looks less convincing...?

I'd love it if we could find a way to get explosions to stop clipping through hulls.
Title: Re: Soft Particles
Post by: Pottuvoi on October 13, 2009, 12:03:35 am
Is that why the nebula looks less convincing...?
Well, the parallax fx makes the puffs look like they would be behind the ships, but they are rendered on top of the ships anyway.