Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: icespeed on April 07, 2002, 07:55:00 am

Title: glass ships
Post by: icespeed on April 07, 2002, 07:55:00 am
had this weird idea yesterday and just remembered it.
if it were possible to make spaceships totally from some sort of transparent material without them collapsing in on you or anything (like glass but lots harder).
what do people think? stupid idea, interesting implications, rendering possibilities (lotsa people floating around midspace!)...?
(there's probably more to the idea, but i have to have people telling me what's wrong with it before i can add to it.)
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 07, 2002, 08:07:29 am
diamond.  hardest material known to man.

Physical imapacts...yer laughing.

Energy beams?  would YOU want to be in a massively refrative contruct when hit by a PetaWatt X-ray beam?
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 07, 2002, 09:24:33 am
It's a very interesting and different idea but there are so many things that could go wrong with it. Radioactivity floating around in space, heat, cold, all sorts of the nasty stuff in space could affect it. It's a very unique idea though, never heard of anything like it before.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Nico on April 07, 2002, 09:35:05 am
Watch the old freelancer introduction, there's an alien ship about like that. Imagine the Aliens in Abyss if you want, they're almost the same design trend.
Title: glass ships
Post by: LtNarol on April 07, 2002, 10:04:12 am
i think a more practical idea would be to have a diamond exterior but with collapsed molybdenum (sp) on the inside.  That would take care of the radiation and hot/cold problems.  The fact is that if it gets hit with a beam, the molybdenum wouldnt hold up as long because the diamond would sorta speed up the effects (wouldnt it?)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Thorn on April 07, 2002, 10:24:53 am
Like a big assed magnifying glass...
Title: glass ships
Post by: LtNarol on April 07, 2002, 10:33:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn
Like a big assed magnifying glass...
figures, be good for a missile though, cut right through the hull.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Nico on April 07, 2002, 10:46:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn
Like a big assed magnifying glass...


except beams aren't lasers. if beams are amplified, any primary will be too (save the maxim I think), otherwise, nope.
Title: glass ships
Post by: LtNarol on April 07, 2002, 10:54:56 am
and a ship completely made of some clear substance could cause some privacy issues...
Title: glass ships
Post by: Thorn on April 07, 2002, 10:55:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


except beams aren't lasers. if beams are amplified, any primary will be too (save the maxim I think), otherwise, nope.

Particles beams, or something else?
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 07, 2002, 11:14:12 am
Particle beams are made up of that..particles.  A beam weapon is an open-ended continuous particle accelerator.

Vasudan beams would work since they are big lasers (photon beams)
Title: glass ships
Post by: ZylonBane on April 07, 2002, 02:11:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
It's a very unique idea though, never heard of anything like it before.
You must not read much science fiction then. Fairly ordinary idea.

Now, clear gravy... that's a unique idea!
Title: glass ships
Post by: KillMeNow on April 07, 2002, 05:08:22 pm
i tried afew rendered based on this idea - tran parent ships with fancy imbeeded colour lumious displays to add abit of well fuctionality to the ship but retain the transparency but i have gotten satisfactory results yet and i given up on it for the moment but might try again soon
Title: glass ships
Post by: Mr. Vega on April 07, 2002, 05:15:20 pm
Quote
diamond. hardest material known to man.
Do you realize how expensive that would be?
Title: glass ships
Post by: mikhael on April 07, 2002, 05:56:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
diamond.  hardest material known to man.


Hard == Brittle == Brittle == Guaranteed-HullBreach

Due to its basic structure (crystalline lattice of carbon atoms), diamond (and all similar structures) cannot flex. Any localized impacts of sufficient force will cause the diamond structure to crumble to dust. Shearing stresses (such as those produced by uneven propulsion, or high speed manuevers) will likewise shatter/powder the material.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Shrike on April 07, 2002, 06:00:18 pm
Some kind of transparent superplastic would probably be superior than diamond.  But the thing is, what's the point?  I can't see any real reason to build a ship like that, except because 'we can'.  Which is a good reason in itself. ;)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kitsune on April 07, 2002, 06:13:25 pm
ST has 'transparent aluminum' in some of its' ships construction.
So why not figure out a way to make better 'transparent steel'?
Title: glass ships
Post by: Stryke 9 on April 07, 2002, 06:29:48 pm
Forget transparent materials. Too easy. How 'bout a ship that's almost entirely made of force shielding?;7
Title: glass ships
Post by: LtNarol on April 07, 2002, 06:35:23 pm
diamonds are just about worthless until they're cut.  Its the crafting that goes into the cuting of diamonds that makes them worth so much.  As for the transparent steel, im pretty sure thats Star Wars and not Star Trek.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 07, 2002, 06:45:00 pm
Beams aren't lasers? What are they then?
Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
You must not read much science fiction then. Fairly ordinary idea.

Now, clear gravy... that's a unique idea!

Nah, I mostly read Tom Clancy and Clive Cussler nowadays. I'm into the modern navy thrillers right now. Finished with my big scifi obsession a year ago or something. I'll go back eventually.

And clear gravy? whoa, that'd be so cool. :D
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 07, 2002, 06:45:05 pm
one Carbon isotope:

Buckminsterfullerine? Nanotubules?  A little hard to come by but great if they could be manufactured in large quantities.

And as for solid diamond..i was thinking more of modular plates on top of some kind of segmented flex lattice.

THe problem with rendering refractive objects in space, which is black...iss..the fact space is black.  Theres nothing to reflect/refract and unless you go overboard on self illumination/falloff controls and the old cliched glow effects i'm afraid it wont happen.

Transparency only works really well in bright, busy environments unless you use a whole bunch of tricks like whitecards or environment bitmaps.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Stryke 9 on April 07, 2002, 06:58:41 pm
Narol: Nope. ST. Transparent aluminum- features in one of the movies. And I'm ****ing humiliated to admit I know that.:D
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kitsune on April 07, 2002, 08:13:51 pm
Transparent aluminum was not only mentioned, but Scotty GAVE it (the chemical compound/formula) to the plastics manufacturer as payment for the sheets of plastic needed to contain the whales so they could save earth.  (The Journey home?)

Edit:  Force Shielding?
What happens if they bring back the old disrupter missle?  
"Sir we collapsed their shields!"  
"Good man, keep firing."
"But sir you don't understand, their ship was nothing BUT shields!"
After a long moment, "Hot damn, hit that one over there with it too!"
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 07, 2002, 08:21:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kitsune
Transparent aluminum was not only mentioned, but Scotty GAVE it (the chemical compound/formula) to the plastics manufacturer as payment for the sheets of plastic needed to contain the whales so they could save earth.  (The Journey home?)

Edit:  Force Shielding?
What happens if they bring back the old disrupter missle?  
"Sir we collapsed their shields!"  
"Good man, keep firing."
"But sir you don't understand, their ship was nothing BUT shields!"
After a long moment, "Hot damn, hit that one over there with it too!"


and that, boyz and girlz, that is an example of...err something.

:headz:
Title: glass ships
Post by: KillMeNow on April 07, 2002, 08:22:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
THe problem with rendering refractive objects in space, which is black...iss..the fact space is black.  Theres nothing to reflect/refract and unless you go overboard on self illumination/falloff controls and the old cliched glow effects i'm afraid it wont happen.

Transparency only works really well in bright, busy environments unless you use a whole bunch of tricks like whitecards or environment bitmaps.


this is why i not had great results

as for the buckminsterfullerine - yup best contruction material ever conceived - as for diamond shattering - yes it is possible but i imagine that it would need a very hard imapact to convince it to do so it is incredibully tough stuff athough they are small noonter ever really done stress test on a support beam of it since that beam would be the msot valuble thing on earth lol

anwyah back to the fullerines - i heard they were one posibilty for the contructions or orbital towers ( a tower that streaches from the equator all the way to geostationary orbit so a skyscrapper oh 24 thousand miles high or there abouts =) cool stuff
Title: glass ships
Post by: ZylonBane on April 07, 2002, 08:31:01 pm
Taelon Mothership (Earth, Final Conflict)--
(http://tanksalvala.homestead.com/files/Mothership3.jpg)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Zeronet on April 07, 2002, 08:49:16 pm
Thats more organic material though.
Title: glass ships
Post by: ZylonBane on April 07, 2002, 11:43:27 pm
And... your point is?
Title: glass ships
Post by: Carl on April 08, 2002, 12:08:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
diamond.  hardest material known to man.

Energy beams?  would YOU want to be in a massively refrative contruct when hit by a PetaWatt X-ray beam?


diamonds are the strongest material known to man, but they burn up pretty easily.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Shrike on April 08, 2002, 12:10:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
as for the buckminsterfullerine - yup best contruction material ever conceived - as for diamond shattering - yes it is possible but i imagine that it would need a very hard imapact to convince it to do so it is incredibully tough stuff athough they are small noonter ever really done stress test on a support beam of it since that beam would be the msot valuble thing on earth lol
Actually, diamonds are easy to shatter.  All you have to do is hit them along the right plane and they split.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 12:29:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kitsune
Transparent aluminum was not only mentioned, but Scotty GAVE it (the chemical compound/formula) to the plastics manufacturer as payment for the sheets of plastic needed to contain the whales so they could save earth.  (The Journey home?)

Edit:  Force Shielding?
What happens if they bring back the old disrupter missle?  
"Sir we collapsed their shields!"  
"Good man, keep firing."
"But sir you don't understand, their ship was nothing BUT shields!"
After a long moment, "Hot damn, hit that one over there with it too!"


:lol:
This somehow produced the vision of a force shield ship with water and... dolphins.... and then the GTVA send 'em out... Don't ask me how that came up... :p
Title: glass ships
Post by: icespeed on April 08, 2002, 02:35:32 am
oh, cool stuff guys. well done. you deserve a prize which i havent got. :D

okay, so maybe transparent ships aren't too good an idea in terms of fighting and stuff.
it was just an idea, after all.

but why diamond? why can't someone synthesise something? and im sure all the other problems can be solved some how... (im saying this because 1. im too lazy to propose solutions myself and 2. i dont know enough about ships to solve them anyway)

and yeah, transparent gravy would be cool...:)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 02:51:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
2. i dont know enough about ships to solve them anyway


I don't really think most of us know what we're talking about anyway ;)


So basically to make a nice, working millitary ship transparent there really would be no point (unless and uber-powerful clear solid material is found) so that should be ruled out.

However, it would be pretty as a tourist kind of thing. (you know: cruise liners and such) But still we don't want our tourists frying so there would be some kind of material used. Diamond is a bit bad because of some of its weaknesses (shatters, burns etc.). So either we find some transparent metal or transparent plastics of some kind. Plastics would be simpler because we already have them - so we could just make them super-strong (somehow) and then you'd have your nice, pretty transparent ship. :nod:

Did that make sense or do I not know what I'm saying either? :p
Title: glass ships
Post by: icespeed on April 08, 2002, 05:14:30 am
yeah, you sound like you know what you're talking about. but that doesn't mean you do.:)

what exactly do you mean when you say that the tourists would fry? fry from what?
Title: glass ships
Post by: Setekh on April 08, 2002, 05:38:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
this is why i not had great results


Tried doing it inside a nebula? :)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Nico on April 08, 2002, 06:43:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


Tried doing it inside a nebula? :)


space is black, but inside a ship, tehre could be a lot of lights :)
think about those fishies in the abyss, they're transparent, but because they have some kind of inside lightning ( they work with Duracel I bet :p ), they still have all those pretty effects ( that's if you don't look at how their "face" looks like, that is "oh, darling, what's wrong with your teeth?" )
Title: glass ships
Post by: Styxx on April 08, 2002, 09:06:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kitsune
Edit:  Force Shielding?
What happens if they bring back the old disrupter missle?  
"Sir we collapsed their shields!"  
"Good man, keep firing."
"But sir you don't understand, their ship was nothing BUT shields!"
After a long moment, "Hot damn, hit that one over there with it too!"


Well, if you can build shields strong enough, the fact that your shields dropped would mean that you're screwed anyway, so it would be a nice idea. Just imagine those Culture GSVs that are a lot of separate parts floating inside a huge hullfield. :)
Title: glass ships
Post by: mikhael on April 08, 2002, 10:13:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
one Carbon isotope:

Buckminsterfullerine? Nanotubules?  A little hard to come by but great if they could be manufactured in large quantities.


Buckminsterfullerine and carbon nanotubes are similar geometrically but are, in fact different things. Buckminsterfullerine, or 'buckyball' as its so often called, is a geodesic carbon sphere surrounding a molecule of water. Groovy stuff.

Carbon nanotubes, or 'bucky tubes' as they are sometimes called, are regular latticework tubes on the order of several microns long. They are not hard. They are like threads. They have a higher tensile strength than any other material yet concieved by man, but they have a low yield in manufacture. You could not make hull plating or the like from them. You could make, however, really strong ropes, or better yet, Beanstalk wire.
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 08, 2002, 11:14:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael


Buckminsterfullerine and carbon nanotubes are similar geometrically but are, in fact different things. Buckminsterfullerine, or 'buckyball' as its so often called, is a geodesic carbon sphere surrounding a molecule of water. Groovy stuff.

Carbon nanotubes, or 'bucky tubes' as they are sometimes called, are regular latticework tubes on the order of several microns long. They are not hard. They are like threads. They have a higher tensile strength than any other material yet concieved by man, but they have a low yield in manufacture. You could not make hull plating or the like from them. You could make, however, really strong ropes, or better yet, Beanstalk wire.


BEANSTALK WIRE!!! OMG!!! :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:

still, buckies would be great if you could make them.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 11:31:37 am
I'm still waiting for someone to invent the clear gravy...:D
Yeah, icespeed is right, why doesn't somebody just synthesize it so it's strong and not easily shatterable? That would probably be easiest.:nod:
Title: glass ships
Post by: Mad Bomber on April 08, 2002, 11:45:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
Buckminsterfullerine?


Technically, buckyballs aren't the only kind of fullerene. Fullerene is also the nanotube, aka "buckytubes". Not only is it uber-strong, but it's a superconductor.

And buckies ARE being made by some small companies. They churn out maybe a kilo per month, tops. They're working on it, its still a very primitive tech at the moment tho.
Title: glass ships
Post by: KillMeNow on April 08, 2002, 03:30:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mad Bomber


Technically, buckyballs aren't the only kind of fullerene. Fullerene is also the nanotube, aka "buckytubes". Not only is it uber-strong, but it's a superconductor.

And buckies ARE being made by some small companies. They churn out maybe a kilo per month, tops. They're working on it, its still a very primitive tech at the moment tho.


primative lol its exceedingly difficult but its nto primative jsut because its slow process if it was prmative would could churn teh stuff out
Title: glass ships
Post by: ZylonBane on April 08, 2002, 03:45:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
I'm still waiting for someone to invent the clear gravy...
Here ya go...
(http://snltranscripts.jt.org/93/pics/93bcrystalgravy1.jpg)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 03:56:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Here ya go...
(http://snltranscripts.jt.org/pics/93bcrystalgravy1.jpg)

:eek: That is soooooooooooo cool! :D
Title: glass ships
Post by: wEvil on April 08, 2002, 04:08:55 pm
hoh boy.

you've DONE IT!!
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kitsune on April 08, 2002, 08:26:43 pm
Crystal gravy?
Was done on Saturday Night Live, or mad TV, one or the other.  Looked hideous as they poured it on potatoes and meat and stuff.  When I thought about if I would eat that I came up with a very definite :no:.
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 08:55:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kitsune
Crystal gravy?
Was done on Saturday Night Live, or mad TV, one or the other.  Looked hideous as they poured it on potatoes and meat and stuff.  When I thought about if I would eat that I came up with a very definite :no:.

I wonder what it tastes like...
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 09:02:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

I wonder what it tastes like...


If it tastes as bad as it sounds, it'll be really bad.. :p
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 09:07:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
If it tastes as bad as it sounds, it'll be really bad.. :p

It sounds pretty cool...except for the description from SNL :p
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 09:11:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

It sounds pretty cool...except for the description from SNL :p


Imagine clear jel-like stuff being poured onto meat and potatoes. Imagine the taste as you chomp into the piece of meat with it's clear gravy coating. Imagine your reaction. Tell me what you think :p (I think it sounds very gross although I'll eat it if I ever find it for the novelty :D)

Actually my reaction is because once I had this disgusting *ahem* rice with "sauce" stuff I was forced to eat at school. It had these digusting old vegetables and had clear sauce on it... :no:
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 09:12:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Imagine clear jel-like stuff being poured onto meat and potatoes. Imagine the taste as you chomp into the piece of meat with it's clear gravy coating. Imagine your reaction. Tell me what you think :p (I think it sounds very gross although I'll eat it if I ever find it for the novelty :D)

I imagine the taste would be of GRAVY and that it would just be clear instead of its usual brownish color. :p:ha:
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 09:14:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

I imagine the taste would be of GRAVY and that it would just be clear instead of its usual brownish color. :p:ha:


Clear sauces have traumatized me, they are evil! - I cannot accept your rationalization :p:ha:
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 09:24:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Clear sauces have traumatized me, they are evil! - I cannot accept your rationalization :p:ha:

Whatever. I win, and you backed down. Now the divine winds must commit harakiri for having failed. :p:ha:
*runs from kamikaze pilots*
Title: glass ships
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 09:43:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

Whatever. I win, and you backed down. Now the divine winds must commit harakiri for having failed. :p:ha:
*runs from kamikaze pilots*


But I have my Zeroes - you cannot win against the uber-Kamikaze power of the Japanese! :p:ha:

(BTW: I'd need a friend to commit harakiri and since I don't see any around me I cannot :p)
Title: glass ships
Post by: Corsair on April 08, 2002, 09:48:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
But I have my Zeroes - you cannot win against the uber-Kamikaze power of the Japanese! :p:ha:

(BTW: I'd need a friend to commit harakiri and since I don't see any around me I cannot :p)

Hmmm...us Corsairs will shoot down all the Zeroes first! Remember the Marianas Turkey Shoot? :D
And you could do digital harakiri and I'm here to help you...;)

EDIT: heh heh, look at my new birth date on my profile. :D