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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro MX on November 09, 2009, 11:29:37 pm

Title: Noses.
Post by: Pyro MX on November 09, 2009, 11:29:37 pm
*Warning, content may offend certain readers.*

Let's talk about a poorly designed piece of plumbing.

Noses.

That's right. Noses. I'd be sleeping right now but it seems that that cluttered piping mess decided to make my night more difficult than compiling OpenOffice.

It's not that it doesn't breathe well. It's just than when it decides to get full of lukewarm fluid, there's no way out of it.

Have-you ever tried to follow a differential equations class while your nose keeps making you feel your heartbeat up to your head? And the eyes. Talk about an intelligent emergency system. Make the eyes cry. Why the frak would the eyes even NEED to cry? Get the fluid out of my nose, not my bloody eyeballs damn it! Would it be intelligent to get the mouth full of urine because you suddenly have to pee and block the needed evacuation tube? Of course not! Not only you annoy everybody in the class with constant sneezing, but you look like a complete idiot with your eyes full of water. "Man, he really hates maths" must they say.

And just to piss you off just a bit further, when you get up, everything clears up. Sit down again, and BAM! Circulation completely cut off. Speaking of circulation, what amount of fluid can the nose possibly contain? Damn I could cool down my computer just with the fluid that would come out of my nose. But then, I'd have to be standing up all day.

And that's not the worse part. When you go to sleep, you're in for a treat. No matter which position you are : on the back, lying on the side, face down the frakking pillow, banging your head on the wall... the nose will feel the need to block everything going in an out of it and make the pressure go to unprecedented levels. I DON'T NEED TO BE CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT MY NOSE IS BLOCKED! I KNOW IT ALREADY! So of course, frustration rises. You get up, throw the damn kleenex box on the wall (or the toilet paper roll, because you depleted the kleenex box in minutes) just to notice that your nose suddenly cleared. THEN YOU LIE AGAIN ON THE DAMN BED JUST TO FIND IT CLUTTERED AGAIN! SERIOUSLY!

STUPID NOSE!  :hopping:

Off to sleep now. If my noses permits it.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 09, 2009, 11:33:04 pm
Take two Tylenol and call me in the morning.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: watsisname on November 09, 2009, 11:34:49 pm
Your nose is bothering you and you can't sleep, so you're posting on HLP?  Jesus, go take some Niquil and a couple shots and you'll be out in no time. =P
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: redsniper on November 10, 2009, 12:41:16 am
lots and lots of pills
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on November 10, 2009, 01:02:25 am
Your nose is bothering you and you can't sleep, so you're posting on HLP?  Jesus, go take some Niquil and a couple shots and you'll be out in no time. =P

It's never that easy.  I get bad sinus infections all the time and it's terrible trying to sleep with them.  Even worse when you have a cold or flu on top of it.  Taking medicine can make it even worse at least it does for me.  Drop some NyQuil in me and I'll be freaking out pacing the floor all night.  Same goes with anything with psudoephedrine in it.  Try being awake for 2 or 3 days not being able to breath and wanting to sleep so bad but you can't even lie down.  It's not fun. 
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Narvi on November 10, 2009, 01:09:38 am
Dude, the blockage will be different when you're standing and when you're lying down. Try sitting up on your bed.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on November 10, 2009, 01:33:39 am
That doesn't work either.  Just results in coughing constantly and you can only eat so many cough drops before you stomach just can't take them anymore. 
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Liberator on November 10, 2009, 02:07:58 am
Sudafed PE

One of those little white jewels and you'll be so dry, the sahara will look like a tropical resort.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Narvi on November 10, 2009, 02:32:59 am
That doesn't work either.  Just results in coughing constantly and you can only eat so many cough drops before you stomach just can't take them anymore. 

The point isn't to clear it up, just to let him breathe without falling over.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 10, 2009, 03:38:06 am
Hot shower.

Failing that, drink hot water. :P
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Narvi on November 10, 2009, 03:52:07 am
Or you could steam it to death.

Buy one of those medical steam things, add to hot water, and inhale.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on November 10, 2009, 04:02:32 am
Hot showers work for about as long as you have hot water.  Vaporizers don't work very well and will actually make things worse with repeated use.  Probably good for short periods like colds but if you have any kind of chronic condition it will probably only make it worse. 

As for Sudafed PE the PE = pseudo-ephedrine = pacing the floor all night.  It's meant to clear you up but keep you awake too.  Hence the meth link. 
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 10, 2009, 04:30:03 am
Hot showers work for about as long as you have hot water.  Vaporizers don't work very well and will actually make things worse with repeated use.

Dehumidifier then.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Mika on November 10, 2009, 05:17:16 am
 :lol:

Ah the joys of common flue

I tend to eat several pieces of raw garlic before going to sleep. Keeps the other airway clear at least. Onion works also. At least in my case. If the smell bothers others, notify them next time about the smell of old alcohol when they have been partying.

15 min steam bath twice a day tends to push some stuff out.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 10, 2009, 06:38:09 am
Actually, if eating garlic is not effective, stuff some garlic in your nose.

If that doesn't help, try some Naga jolokia (or regular habanero if you're a pussy). Not in your nose though, unless you have a death wish. Oral application will be more than enough. I can guarantee you will not be thinking of your blocked nose in at least half an hour. You will be too busy trying to escape your head, but the bugger keeps following where ever you go...


...extreme measures aside, steam tends to be fairly efficient at loosening the stuff up in airways.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Pyro MX on November 10, 2009, 07:06:22 am
'Morning folks. Got about 4 hours of sleep! Hope you found the thread funny. :P

Your nose is bothering you and you can't sleep, so you're posting on HLP?  Jesus, go take some Niquil and a couple shots and you'll be out in no time. =P

That substance wasn't available at the moment of the problem. I'm only equipped with some kind of Tylenol. And as FUBAR said, I didn't want to make matters worse. As for posting on HLP, well, I thought it'd be funny.  I recall people posting drunk. Might as well post sick ;) . At least when I got to bed I kept wondering what kind of replies that thread got :P , which is better than wondering when will my head blow up in pieces under the pressure  :lol:

Aaaaanyway, thanks for all the tips. I think that combining all of them could be... dynamite. I think I'm gonna stick to steam for the moment. :D

*head falls on the keyboard*
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2009, 08:15:49 am
You're clearly dying...A Horrible, slow death. You should kill yourself now and spare yourself the pain.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: iamzack on November 10, 2009, 09:48:10 am
I used to get horrific sinus infections. But I have a really high pain tolerance, so I'd just lay down and not move for a few days, drifting in and out of sleep...
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Liberator on November 10, 2009, 12:36:20 pm
Ok, so use regular Sudafed or Aleve Cold & Sinus or something.  The point is that there is medication out there that will relieve it.  And BTW, and this just might be my bizarro physiology, but I have no problem sleeping when I take one.  Course most "energy drinks" slow me down if not knock me right out also.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: High Max on November 10, 2009, 04:45:04 pm
*_*
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: General Battuta on November 10, 2009, 04:46:46 pm
Yeah, High Max, if you're going to make a statement like this

Quote
Problem is if you take medicine to relieve the symptoms, your body will have a hard time getting rid of the problem.

you'll need data from a controlled experiment to back it up.

I don't believe that anything currently suggests that treating symptoms prolongs the duration of the disease.

Being healthy certainly helps, though, and the rest of the advice probably isn't bad.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: High Max on November 10, 2009, 04:53:47 pm
*_*
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Mongoose on November 10, 2009, 06:02:16 pm
Ignoring the quackery, Robutussin, yo.  And not the pills, either...the good ol' liquid suspension.  That blast of Cherry Mint flavor has never failed to unblock everything that needs it. :p
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Ford Prefect on November 10, 2009, 06:38:53 pm
Have you tried a netti pot? I've never used one, but I know several people who swear by them.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 10, 2009, 10:30:53 pm
High Max, there is some truth in what you are saying, but it doesn't apply to nearly all symptoms and diseases.

Taking a fever lowering substance (such as ibuprofein (Burana, Ibusal) or pseudoephedrine (Duact, the favourite medicine of Finnish Defense Force) when you're running just a low fever, it can indeed increase the time your body requires to defeat the infection. Especially if you take these drugs in order to feel capable of working, and refuse to stay home and rest. However, when running a high fever (depending on age and general health condition), treating the high fever might be more important than worrying about prolonging the infection, as fever can put an undue stress on organs like heart, kidneys and other assorted stuff. The fever can kill a person even if it's a natural response; however I won't deny that many people are a bit too pill-happy for treating the inconvenient small fever they get from the common cold. Letting it run it's course and just resting when you feel like crap anyway tends to make the disease go away a bit faster, since higher temperature kills the disease dead.

Same goes with medication that helps clear the airways. In a typical common cold, the upper airways mucous membranes are infected, which causes them to swell and be filled with liquid, which both increases the secretion of mucus and constricts the airways; this is why the nose is easily blocked. Taking something that reduces the swelling of the mucous membranes relieves the mechanical symptom, but I don't think it significantly affects the rate at which the dead infectants are removed from the body. It's main effect is making it easier to remove them from the nasal cavity and other parts of upper airways (including sinuses). Besides, the mucus mainly contains dead infectants anyway; the actual work to kill the infection is made on cellular level and the increased mucus secretion is just a result of that.

Cough medicines typically make the sticky mucus stuck in your lungs come loose easier, letting you get rid of it easier and thus reducing the coughing; remember that excessive coughing can cause mechanical damage to the lower airways (sore throat, coughing blood in extreme cases) without actually getting anything done if the mucus is just stuck there, irritating your airways and prompting the cough response again and again. It also spreads the infectants to the surrounding area very effectively by aerosole spread, and treating it is definitely worth it. It isn't an integral part of the healing mechanism that eventually destroys the infection internally.


...Aside from that, you can't really "train" your body to be resistant to stuff like common cold or flu virus infections. They typically mutate between the seasons so that your immune system is just as unprepared for them as it is for other stuff. Not treating symptoms does nothing to your flu/cold resistance. However, you can keep your natural defenses high by eating healthily and staying in good shape, which all contribute to the effectiveness of your immuneresponse level.

Of course, there's always the possibility of the flu virus causing a cytokine storm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm) and then your strong immunity system can cause more damage than the infection itself. In fact, that's what killed significant portion of the victims of the 1918 flu infection (along with bad hygiene and overall conditions that contributed to both the spread of infection and general condition of patients).
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Pyro MX on November 10, 2009, 11:23:47 pm
Now that's a lot of information!  :p For the most part, I think I'll be fine - nose is still a bit blocked tonight, but it's not as worse as yesterday (this time, no crying or excessive sneezing). So I might be able to have some sleep.

Should things get unexpectedly goes worse in the following days, I'll now where to check for the info  ;)! 'Never thought that this thread would turn out on such a scientific note!
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: blackhole on November 11, 2009, 12:07:18 am
I want to mention that both of you guys are ignoring the fact that if you FEEL better, you are actually highly likely to BE better, even if its via pills. The placebo effect is scientifically proven fact.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: General Battuta on November 11, 2009, 12:11:07 am
I don't think anybody's ignoring that. The placebo effect would be accounted for in even the most basic between-subjects design.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: High Max on November 11, 2009, 01:03:17 am
.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 11, 2009, 02:00:34 am
Exposure to different kinds of infectants and foreign substances like pollen and dust and mold spores in reasonable amount does help to make their immunity system react normally to these substances (rather than developing an oversensitivity to them, aka. allergy), but mainly when the immunity system is still developing. This mainly means that if you live in the countryside as a kid, you are (slightly) less likely to develope allergies (or asthma for that matter) than your city-dwelling brethren, but I don't know if there's any statistical data about bacterial/viral resistance between such generic groups. Obviously children totally isolated from normal bacterial and viral environments don't usually develope resistance to them - at least not as strong as those exposed to them, but I don't know if the difference between city kids' and country kids' exposure causes any significant difference in their sensitivity to bacteria and viruses. Is there any research about this?

On the other hand overexposure to something like mold in a building can cause one to develope an allergy from the continuous immunoresponse, and one becomes overly sensitive to even small amounts of similar substances. The developement of a healty immunity system seems to require an average amount of exposure to infectants and foreign substances. And things like allergic anaphylactic shock reaction can be lethal from the first minimal exposure to something like bee sting, egg protein or walnuts...

Claims of using "mind over matter" to actually affect the rate of defeating infections on cellular level I take with a few grains of salt. Subjective experience about how ill you are is a different matter and there's no doubt one can very well affect that consciously as well as unconsciously. That's part of why relieving symptoms often feels like such an effective treatment even though in cases of common flu the body actually does all the work to defeat the illness, and the old saying is pretty much true: "A common cold can lasts as long as a week untreated, but only seven days with medication". However, in cases of bacterial infections like sinus/middle ear infections, antibiotics are often proscribed to reduce the bacterial compound of the infection, while in cases of severe flu infection antiviral medication is used. These medications affect the cause of the disease directly, and they are usually proscribed for a reason.

What's the reason to treat infections with antibiotics you might ask? Wouldn't it be better to let the body to defeat the infection naturally? No. It's true that proscribing antibiotics too often and too easily (especially if patients don't finish with the proscribed medication and quit taking it when they feel better!) has a tendency to increase antibiotics-resistance in the bacteria, and that's a very good reason not to assign them for common cold (fever-reducing and airway clearing medication is much more effective) but they have their definite uses for when the infection spreads from the airways to other cavities in the head.

The reason for proscribing antibiotics for sinusitis or middle ear infection is simple: Otitis media can be a very painful condition, can cause deafness if left unchecked and (as far as I know) can spread as mastoiditis, meningitis or brain abscess and these conditions can be life-threatening. Sinusitis can similarly spread up to the frontal sinuses in the forehead (typical sinus infection is just a maxillary sinusitis in which the sinuses below your eyes, on the "cheeks" are infected) and that can further spread to meningitis in severe unchecked cases (if I recall correctly).

Of course, middle ear infection can be relatively easily prevented by the installation of tubes in the ear that bypass the ear drum and fulfill the function of the Eustachian tubes. After all the middle ear infection is caused directly by Eustachian tubes becoming blocked, and since the middle ear is then isolated from the outside, the air inside is absorbed to the tissues which causes a vacuum (in itself a pretty painful condition) and when the vacuum becomes strong enough the middle ear fills with fluid that can be infected...
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: lostllama on November 11, 2009, 05:45:09 am
Someone I know came down with swine flu recently. He didn't bother with Tamiflu because he felt it was better to let his system overcome the virus by itself, which it did. Tamiflu would've only shortened the duration of the flu by about two days or something.

I know a nurse who reckons this concern over H1N1 is rather out of proportion. A doctor that my mother saw recently said the same thing to her. I've also heard of nurses that wouldn't consider taking Tamiflu, but I'm not certain what their personal stance is on having the vaccine (I believe medical staff are being vaccinated as of now, at least where I am).
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Mika on November 11, 2009, 04:13:26 pm
About thinking of flu and getting rid of it by thought power. I can somewhat control it, but cannot get rid of it - however I can somewhat delay it. Have had a couple of incidents when it was somewhat necessary. Yeah, you know it is about to come and you still continue onwards thinking that when this is over, it is time to be sick. The bad thing was that illness usually has some kind of comeback which is usually a lot worse. But at this case I expect nobody is going to believe me anyways so no need to talk about it any further.

The other thing is that by training lots, one is actually weakening his immune response. Meaning that body is using lots of energy to recuperate the muscle stress rather than fight the disease. Doing this for a long time can cause nasty surprises, like the four month long streak of sinus/ear/lung/throat infections last year. Required three antibiotic treatments. Not fun, being 27 and having an ear infection.

I think next time I will immediately stop doing all sport related activities when I get the hunch I might be getting a flu.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: iamzack on November 11, 2009, 04:20:41 pm
I've been sick for two and a half weeks straight. I've taken to compulsively disinfecting everything at work after someone so much as walks too close to it.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Janos on November 12, 2009, 01:26:40 pm
a ****load of amphetamine and some heavy-duty pliers ought to get you rid of your problem, bro
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Bob-san on November 12, 2009, 02:08:48 pm
My suggestion: find the hottest wings/chili/pizza/whatever that you can find and eat lots of it. The more it burns, the less sniffling you'll be doing. Within the first few bites, your nose should turn from the Hoover Dam to Niagara Falls. Be ready with Kleenex/whatever.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Liberator on November 12, 2009, 05:55:49 pm
My suggestion: find the hottest wings/chili/pizza/whatever that you can find and eat lots of it. The more it burns, the less sniffling you'll be doing. Within the first few bites, your nose should turn from the Hoover Dam to Niagara Falls. Be ready with Kleenex/whatever.

Agreed, a bowl of 5 alarm chili or buffalo wings would work well, if you don't like either of those, try eating a pepper straight.
Title: Re: Noses.
Post by: Turambar on November 12, 2009, 11:06:39 pm
some sushi along with some wasabi works wonders too.

or you could just make a sandwich and use wasabi instead of mustard.