Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Rampage on April 08, 2002, 07:59:36 am
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After 6 months of trying to make time for my followup on Analozon (Misspelling?)'s famous campaign Derelict, I have decided to make a sequel (I discussed this about 8 months before on Hard Light). I am notw opening the campaign to production and will start producing the missions. I have the ship mods done already. Quite interesting storyline. But I suppose that this campaign will take AT LEAST two years if I do this on my own or people do separate missions for me without collaboration.
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campaigns are good. M'kay??
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Especially ones like Derelict :yes:
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So long as you can match or beat the original.... and that the creators don't object (as it is kind of their literary work)
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Hm Derelict 2. :rolleyes:
I don't know. I played the campaign only once but I think that it should have less dirty language though :rolleyes:
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Derelict kind of sucked in my opinion, to tell the truth (no offense to the creators), but as Stunaep said, new campaigns are always welcome. ;)
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Originally posted by CP5670
Derelict kind of sucked in my opinion, to tell the truth (no offense to the creators),
Really?? From which end? I liked it.
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I liked it... there are questions left unanswered after it's over, just like FS2...
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And like which questions?
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Well, the only major plus point I saw in the campaign were the number of missions, which was extremely high. The story was too implausible in general IMHO for a number of reasons, and some events that occurred during the campaign simply made no sense. (the evil corporation thing, for example, really had me laughing) The mission quality was also well below average, the missions being filled with play-balance issues, event bugs and general plausibility problems. Some of the less interesting "filler missions" intended only to advance the story should have been removed; the story should complement the missions in a campaign, not the other way around. Overall, I was not really impressed by the campaign except for the fact that there were so many missions, but little thought and work seemed to have gone into each one, and I personally would have preferred fewer but better missions.
(I bet I'm going to get flames here as I'm about the only person over at the VBB who doesn't think Derelict is the best campaign out there, but what the heck :p:D)
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uh. BWO is the sequel. Derelict was good though, very good.
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Well...
First off, I've seen too many occasions where the sequel to a movie or game is produced simply to profit off of the sucess of the original, but only sucked so bad that it actually devalued the first, good one to say I trust this enterprise. And THAT was a rambling sentence.
Anyway, I'd say Derelict needs no direct sequel. Make a campaign like it, sure, but just DON'T claim it's Derelict revisited, because no matter how good you are (and odds are you aren't quite that good), it won't be. Stylistic differences, you see.
I'd also note that you'd be in for a time trying to get a new campaign launched these days, as we already have...
[counts forums]
:jaw:
...er... more than a dozen, I'd say, and that's just hosted here. Doesn't account for independent runs like BWO, the Bab5 TC, and the Archon campaign. Modders and FREDders are stretched quite thin, and it's getting thinner all the time. If you plan on getting a campaign done, you'd better expect to be doing most of it on your own like me, and thus taking more than twice even your most pessemistic deadline.
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Originally posted by CP5670
(I bet I'm going to get flames here as I'm about the only person over at the VBB who doesn't think Derelict is the best campaign out there, but what the heck :p:D)
You aren`t the only one. I just keep my head down about it :)
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I doubt it. People aren't quite as fanatical here as on the VBB, and tastes would vary, anyway.
Everyone thinks their own campaign is the best ever.:p
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I never finished Derelict. How does it end? I'd be glad to help though, if you remade it!
Oh, and 158th is the best squadron/group of campaigns ever! :D
*runs*
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So we are talking about squadrons eh? :D
139th Eagles rule! :p :D ( he he my squadron )
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Well...
First off, I've seen too many occasions where the sequel to a movie or game is produced simply to profit off of the sucess of the original, but only sucked so bad that it actually devalued the first, good one to say I trust this enterprise. And THAT was a rambling sentence.
Anyway, I'd say Derelict needs no direct sequel. Make a campaign like it, sure, but just DON'T claim it's Derelict revisited, because no matter how good you are (and odds are you aren't quite that good), it won't be. Stylistic differences, you see.
I'd also note that you'd be in for a time trying to get a new campaign launched these days, as we already have...
[counts forums]
:jaw:
...er... more than a dozen, I'd say, and that's just hosted here. Doesn't account for independent runs like BWO, the Bab5 TC, and the Archon campaign. Modders and FREDders are stretched quite thin, and it's getting thinner all the time. If you plan on getting a campaign done, you'd better expect to be doing most of it on your own like me, and thus taking more than twice even your most pessemistic deadline.
Good point. It my be better to hold off any new campaigns to assist in finishing the other ones, where possible. Plus, that would also free up their staff members ;7
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hmm... I liked derelict. Some plot stuff were ridiculous tho ( the Lucifer, it just can't get stuck at one place in a subspace corridor, it has to be sucked all along, and would be lost as soon as the first wing that found it jumped in another system- the "jumping jump gate", my favourite hehehe - the evil corporations with their thousands of fighters :rolleyes: ), but the mood was good, and the dream thiguy was cool.
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BWO is Derelict 2, and Warzone 2
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Originally posted by venom2506
my favourite hehehe - the evil corporations with their thousands of fighters :rolleyes:
That was probably the main thing I hated about Deralict. It just didn`t make sense that the enemy could sneak that large a force of ships around without someone spotting it.
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Really? Ever heard of subspace, and the fact that the universe, and even a smallish solar system, is pretty damn big and hard to keep an eye on in the first place?
'Course, subspace IS a cop-out, but I don't see how it would be so hard with it...
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I loved derelict. That campaign drove me right up the wall. The only things I thought it was missing was voice acting and animated cutscenes.
The story was rich and the missions were challenging.
With some voice acting, new music, a few animated cutscenes, and original music it would have made an excellent expansion pack to FS2, imho.
If you're thinking about a Derelict 2 I'd be glad to contribute some music to it.
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I DIDN'T MAKE IT!!!
(btw..name is Analazon :p)
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That was probably the main thing I hated about Deralict. It just didn`t make sense that the enemy could sneak that large a force of ships around without someone spotting it.
LOL yeah; that part really had me laughing for a bit, as the evil corporation idea is one of the things that has been done many times in storylines (almost to the point of being cliched), but it doesn't really sound like something that could realistically happen. There were all kinds of things that were not consistent with the main campaign and some story ideas that were downright nonsensical, and overall the campaign did not have the detailed and realistic war/politics/mystery feel of the main campaign. ;) Still, this would have been forgivable if the missions were of high quality, but Derelict failed there as well for the reasons I stated earlier. Maybe my standards are a bit too high, but I like to see the same level of perfection that was in the main campaign in user-designed campaigns. (TPI, anyone? :D)
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Derelict was pretty good. The fact that they focused a lot on the Auriga and Morgan Technologies kind of wore off the whole Shivan thing. Why the hell would you make an uber-powerful destroyer like that?
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I haven't finished Derelict, but it is okay so far. I was kind of hoping that everything would be explained later n the game, but according to some of the posts here, baddies will just pop up out of nowhere with no explanation.
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This is the current plot for Derelict ][:
Missions 1-7 (or 8)
After the Destruction of the Nylathotep, Tau Sigma has been in a state of reconstruction and is prospering thanks to the new wave of Capellan refugees settling in the outer rim of the system and other systems.
You are Alpha 1, a veteran of the 543th Harpies based in Sirius and the central GTVA systems who get transferred to Tau Sigma because of its new rebel problem: the Terran Vasudan Christian Fundamentalists (TVCF). They are radical Chrisitan cultists who pirates on GTVA convoys and engage in terrorist acts. You have been ordered to hunt them down and eradicate the group.
Missions 9-14 (or 15)
When the last TVCF station is being destroyed by Alpha wing and the GVC [Unnamed, Yet], the MTD Auriga jumps in and destroys the TVCF depot and ion-cannons your cruiser, you have been ordered to find out the motive(s) behind the Morgan Tech. Corp.
You chase the Auriga into the Tanis Australis system and tracked it down. Meanwhile, several unknown subspace disturbances has been descovered by recon units in the system. The MTD Auriga in one mission is found dead in space. When your bomber wing engages the destroyer, it mysteriously made an intersystem jump. Command Tracked down the its jump signature and later discovers an undiscovered node.
Missions 16-22
The newly-discovered node is surprisingly a node to another new system with a backdoor node to Sol. You finally discover how to manipulate this unstable node and travels to Sol after all these years. The PTMC (Original Descent Seriesis now the dominatrix in Sol. Morgan Tech. have made an alliance with the PTMC to crush the GTVA. The PTMC surprisingly have a new weapon, a Hades class destroyer. Command later found out through GTVI that the rogue GTI faction 30 years ago had known this backdoor node to Sol and sold the schematics of the Hades to the newly-born PTMC for area and mine control.
Alpha wing will now be stationed in Sol as you prepare to take down the PTMC, which you finally do. Dravis is killed in the battle but the Hades and the Auriga escapes Sol and back into the system connecting Tanis Australis and Sol. They discover another node which leads into a mysterious nebula.
More Mission Plots Later
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Awww man, I had planned to make a seqel with the backdoor to Sol. I'll guess I'll just go ahead anyway. In my campaign the Hammer of Light return. No Shivans though.
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Make your campaign anyway, its a good idea and shouldn't be limited to just one campaign because they posted it on HLP first.
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Hah! in my followup to TAC (yeah, right), Sol wipes the floor with the GTA!:p
Want my Sol mods? Be a hard campaign easy, then. Capships as solid as a planet, with 400-odd fighters to a hangar.;7
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do it, but please don´t post the entire campaign story in HLPBB. Whats the fun in playing it later. :(
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do it, but please don´t post the entire campaign story in HLPBB. Whats the fun in playing it later. :(
:nod:
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I think the thing I liked the most about Derelict was the new ways missions played out. Agatheron and Kellan presented their missions in an entirely different way than Volition did with the original FS2 campaign. Some parts of the game, like the dream sequence, were just awesome.
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Originally posted by Mr. Vega
Awww man, I had planned to make a seqel with the backdoor to Sol. I'll guess I'll just go ahead anyway. In my campaign the Hammer of Light return. No Shivans though.
There are sequels to Derelict, they are called warzone and BWO.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
There are sequels to Derelict, they are called warzone and BWO.
Not really. BWO and Warzone are set in the same universe, but neither of them are intended to be a true sequel.
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The dream sequence was very neat and innovative, but it can't really be a substitute for the other deficiencies in the campaign. ;) (it was basically what some would call a gimmick, although a very good one nevertheless)
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Originally posted by VW-Dynamo
Not really. BWO and Warzone are set in the same universe, but neither of them are intended to be a true sequel.
Yeah but "Radical Christian cultists", thats just.... :wtf: :wtf: to me. Think this whole concept of a sequal needs a rethink.
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I rather liked Derelict. I can't wait till the second one is released.
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Originally posted by CP5670
(I bet I'm going to get flames here as I'm about the only person over at the VBB who doesn't think Derelict is the best campaign out there, but what the heck :p:D)
I prefer Warzone to derelict anytime. Then again, I'm not in the VBB either.
Personally I thought there were many good missions, but some just sucked plain. Fore example the dream sequence which is just the kind of mission CP refers tothe story should complement the missions in a campaign, not the other way around
exactly. And then there was the final mission, which violated about every rule in the FS universe (summoning knossos', oh please), and finally, if you're gonna put in a lucifer, GIVE IT A SHIP-VULNERABLE TAG!!!!
I liked it though overall...
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Originally posted by CP5670
:nod:
Blackify the text or something, if you must post it...
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Let me straighten you all out.
Derelict was created by Kellan and Agatheron. Agatheron started the whole thing off and Kellan joined a bit later to get some of the missions in. The missions they did were par excellance. I haven't seen better missions produced by anyone yet. Someone was complaining about balance or something...Kellan and Agatheron and I went over alot of those missions with balance in mind. I thought they were pretty close to perfect.
Derelict and Warzone for the most part are compatible...if you take into account that the Shivan attacks happened pretty much at the same time and that the Warlock didn't know of what was going on in Tau Sigma.
BWO is sort of a successor to both campaigns...but the connections are medium to small. We mention ships and the occasional event...but BWO is more of a standalone.
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Okay just wait for a month and you'll see what real quality missions are... :D ;7 :D
I agree with Stunaep though; Warzone was a better campaign than Derelict due to the much more plausible storyline and better missions. :nod:
Blackify the text or something, if you must post it...
Yeah, I needed some CONTENT in there; I will try to remember that next time. ;)
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Originally posted by IceFire
The missions they did were par excellance. I haven't seen better missions produced by anyone yet. Someone was complaining about balance or something...Kellan and Agatheron and I went over alot of those missions with balance in mind. I thought they were pretty close to perfect.
Finally, somebody talks some sense around here :D
These were my thoughts exactly.
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Hey everyone...here's my $0.02 on Derelict... ;)
Okay, so it may be the biggest campaign around (it might not be, but I'm not keeping up) but I agree that it wasn't the most polished. We never went back and fixed the first few missions, which you have to remember were Agatheron's first for example. There were a few spelling errors in the dialogue, and not all of it would fit on a Command Briefing screen at 640*480.
There were also a couple of missions that I would've liked to go back and change or rebalance. One of the missions in the first Loop particularly gets me like that. However, the bottom line was that after spending so much time on it, and with exams looming, I didn't have the time (or to some extent the inclination) to fix every little thing. Agatheron was busy with RL stuff and needed a break too. So, like the voicing, Derelict 1.1 Final kinda fell by the wayside. :o
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Overall though, I'm still very pleased with Derelict. I disagree that some of the non-combat missions and the ones where you don't fight MT or the Shivans were fillers - if nothing else, they brought the characters in your wing further out at least.
Oh, and the Auriga was my idea. :nod: So hurt me for it, if you must. I don't, however think that it's so infeasible that the Auriga could move around without being spotted. Firstly, space is a big place - I mean, have you seen estimates of the diameter of the Solar system out to the Kuiper belt and Oort clouds? Secondly, Tau Sigma and all the systems beyond were very isolated. There wasn't even a Vasudan Fleet in the system to provide support, and it took the GTVA long enough to send reinforcements once the Shivans made their appearance.
I don't think it's ever-so odd that Morgan Technologies would create the Auriga either. It's just an extension of the current behaviour of large corporations. When a corporation is bigger and more powerful than the government that regulates it, as well as being multinational you have to wonder what happens next...
Anyway, a bit of MT's rationale is this:
They want the Tau Sigma system for themselves. It's got minerals and will soon have a population of refugees willing to take any job that's offered. The GTVA is too busy with the reconstruction to really care. However, MT's attempts to dominate Tau Sigma using corporate means falter because pirate activity in the lawless system is heavy and the GTVA can't or won't do any more. The Auriga is the logical extension of this plan for domination. Nobody can really oppose it in Tau Sigma or beyond.
I'd rather not reveal where the destroyer, it's components or fighters actually came from though...yet. All will be revealed in due course. :wink:
One day we may go back and buff up Derelict to a shine. But BWO has priority. It's markedly different to Derelict if you ask me - more combat. It's like a mix of Warzone and the Big Plot/Character elements of Derelict. And it shall be good. :D
Until then...
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Incidentally, which missions did you really like in Derelict? :)
My money goes on the Meson Beam mission, and the battles against the Shivans in Phi Eridani. Plus the last mission, which I'm astonished Agatheron did. It's genius.
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The only mission I like is the one where you fly recon and when you encounter the Shivan Knossos for the first time.
Oh, and the one where you ''play dead''
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Originally posted by Kellan
Incidentally, which missions did you really like in Derelict? :)
My money goes on the Meson Beam mission, and the battles against the Shivans in Phi Eridani. Plus the last mission, which I'm astonished Agatheron did. It's genius.
Gorgon Cannon! Gorgon! Gorgon! :D :D
Anyway, my next fav to that is anyone of them that you get to hear Mackey in.
"You want to hear another story about duct tape?"
"Good. And when I get it, I'm going to duct tape it to my cockpit."
Man, he's funny.
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I liked 100% of Derelict.
Theres not a single mission I dont like.
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Gorgon Cannon! Gorgon! Gorgon! :D :D
Anyway, my next fav to that is anyone of them that you get to hear Mackey in.
"You want to hear another story about duct tape?"
"Good. And when I get it, I'm going to duct tape it to my cockpit."
Man, he's funny.
"Would you like me to knock on their exhaust pipes and ask for a headcount? I'm serious Command, all of the Shivans are here!!"
"Alright, but they so much look at me sideways and I am putting a Harpoon in their tailpipe."
"I've got a wad of duct tape I'd like to shove up your [bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt]."
:D
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They sure took the In-Mission conversations to the extreme in this campaign.
Actually one thing bothers me about Derelict and it has to do with all those little suns all over the place.
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Yeah, the language was kinda extreme...... :D
"Yee-hah! Take that you big, ugly *******!"
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Delilict 2 go for it.....
1 thing tho....
ive never been able to play Derilict...
im sat on the first mission doing nothing.... an hour into it and nothing is going on.......it says intercept poesidan 7 but nothing arrives...dang annoying..
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...An hour into it, before you realized nothing was happening?
Mmm... Might be something else to that...;)
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?
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Originally posted by nuclear1
Yeah, the language was kinda extreme...... :D
"Yee-hah! Take that you big, ugly *******!"
That really wasn't my point.
When I say extreme I ment it had a lot more conversations between pilots than the FS2 campaign.
The main FS2 campaign needed more cussing.
It sounds more real.
But of course you gotta think of the little kids who play this game
:rolleyes:
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It's kinda hard for language to be extreme in that way nowadays, anyhow. I mean, short of racial slurs, what really shocks people anymore? I tell you; it's rough being a public nuisance.
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By the way, expect a 5-7 mission demo soon.
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Cool :yes:
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derelict was best campaing but derelict 2 bad idea
:headz:
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Originally posted by SILVER DRACON
derelict was best campaing but derelict 2 bad idea
:headz:
I agree, if they want to make a Derelict sequel I think it should be done by Agatheron and Kellan. The creators of the original Derelict.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
It's kinda hard for language to be extreme in that way nowadays, anyhow. I mean, short of racial slurs, what really shocks people anymore? I tell you; it's rough being a public nuisance.
Racial slurs dont really insult me. They shouldnt be used, but still. The only thing i can remember being truly offended by are boybands. :mad:
pete
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Originally posted by beatspete
Racial slurs dont really insult me. They shouldnt be used, but still. The only thing i can remember being truly offended by are boybands. :mad:
pete
Just out of curiosity, what race are you? Vasudan? ;)
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i loved Derelict, and can't wait for this. i am... imensely happy.
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Originally posted by killadonuts
I agree, if they want to make a Derelict sequel I think it should be done by Agatheron and Kellan. The creators of the original Derelict.
Probably true, but they're just a tiny bit busy with BWO now I'm sure. Maybe they'd be available for a little consulting here and there, but I doubt they'd have time to take part in another big project.
Anyway, that would just make BWO go even SLOWER than it is already :D
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derelict 2 is vey bad idea look the orginal derelict story
in was derelict SSD Lucifer class ship in tahat campaing
this was reason for name
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You're right about that...... but that quickly changed. The Nyarlathotep became active a little early in the campaign and it wasn't a derelict anymore. :ha: :D
What I'd really like to see is what would happen to the Auriga...... That little bugger....
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I just don't think it's right to sequel a campaign that you diddn't even do.
I would be kind of pissed if someone made a sequel to a campaign I made.
But that's just me
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Well, I also like Derelict, and didn't see anything so rediculusly impossible that it didn't make sense. And sure, make a campaign, but don't call it Derelict!!!! My campaign ITHOV uses Derelict as history, and some of the events/characters/places are being revisited, but it is a seprate story that could stand on its own. I just liked the idea of trying to create a continuity between the campaigns. That's one reason why I feel Derelict, Warzon and BWO are/will be great, because they seem like the next step in the FS story.
by the way, Mackie is comic genius!
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and for the record BWO is, in fact, Derelict 2, made by the origonal creators (even if only one of them is still active)
it is also Warzone 2, made by the origonal creator
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Long campaigns struggle to maintain... I suppose intensity is the word I'm looking for. Short campaigns, say 4 - 10 missions, with all the bells and whistles are the way forward, as I shall prove oh so soon...
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Isn't this thread pretty old? :p
Short campaigns, say 4 - 10 missions, with all the bells and whistles are the way forward, as I shall prove oh so soon...
I quite agree there, but does 15 count (10 of them being already finished)? ;7
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how is Derelict 2 coming along anyways? did it start? where is it? am i lost, or am I lost?
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BWO is comeing along nicely, thank you
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*Duely noted*
And!
Excellence
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I'm looking forward to it.:)
You got a web site?
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Pulling this conversation waaaay back, I really liked the tons of chatter in-game, but it's hard to reaed everything while paying attention to the game, and it also causes me to occasionally miss messages. Go voice acting in BWO!
the only problem, AFAIK, is that no compression can be used on speech, so the filesize could get nasty, couldn't it?
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Originally posted by Fry_Day
Pulling this conversation waaaay back, I really liked the tons of chatter in-game, but it's hard to reaed everything while paying attention to the game, and it also causes me to occasionally miss messages. Go voice acting in BWO!
the only problem, AFAIK, is that no compression can be used on speech, so the filesize could get nasty, couldn't it?
First, I believe the FS2 audio files (*.wav) are compressed with ADPCM. Second, if that's not good enough, there is always the option of decompressing the files (eg, decoding Ogg or FLAC or some such) on the user's machine after downloading, using an external program (an installation program, perhaps).
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Only Music files are compressed. All the sfx/speech I looked at weren't.
Lossless compression doesn't compress nearly as good as lossy, especially speech (Since speech is mostly lower frequency, almost nothing is lost (Since lossy compression methods loose the most info in high frequencies (Which is why in you can usually see compression errors in shades of blue in video/still images (for example, the FS2 intro), and not in other colors, and why lowering the highest frequency bar in the WinAMP equalizer will not make any difference to your ear when playing MP3s)), and I wanna see you doing an installer that decompresses OGGs into wavs. It's probably not that complicated, but every coder probably has better stuff to spend his time on.
Edit: My, My. Didn't I get a bit off-topic there :)
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Why not just get the SCP to put in support for mp3 and ogg and be done with it :)
It's something that will probably be done at some point anyway :)
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Originally posted by karajorma
Why not just get the SCP to put in support for mp3 and ogg and be done with it :)
It's something that will probably be done at some point anyway :)
I wouldn't recommend putting in MP3 support. You now have to pay money for decoders too, so if you do, don't be surprised to have Thompson come knocking...
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i'll help
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Just Ogg then. I forgot that mp3 wasn`t free to decode any more.