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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flipside on December 02, 2009, 08:39:42 pm

Title: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Flipside on December 02, 2009, 08:39:42 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8392193.stm

Quote
Meeting the demand for family planning in poor nations is a cheap and effective way to cut CO2 emissions, a new website initiative claims.

The UK-based Optimum Population Trust says human activity is exacerbating global warming and higher population levels mean higher emissions.

Ok, so the thinking behind the idea is sound, but I can see a ****storm on the horizon for the approach which sounds curiously like something out of a Johnathan Swift monologue...
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Solatar on December 02, 2009, 09:04:01 pm
Maybe they should cut emissions even more by eating the babies they already have?

A modest proposal, but it could work. :nervous:

In all seriousness; maybe a good idea.  You're absolutely right, I could think of very few worse ways to present this.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: General Battuta on December 02, 2009, 09:23:27 pm
Sounds fine to me. Bringing their growth rate down to something like developed nations is probably not going to hurt them.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Bobboau on December 02, 2009, 09:45:59 pm
except only 3 out of there 12 children survive to adulthood.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Flipside on December 02, 2009, 10:03:47 pm
My problem is the fact that somehow reducing the number of consumers in the countries that have the least in the way of industry, and whose people consume the least in the way of luxuries and energy will somehow help CO2 emissions. If you want to reduce CO2 emissions by cutting populations, the third world is probably the worst place to start.

Edit: For example, the UK, if it had 25% less population would have a far greater impact on the worlds CO2 emissions than if Central Africa had 25% less population.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 02, 2009, 10:11:23 pm
Yeah, but it's sort of a moot point, since the nations in question are generally in dire need of birth control anyway.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Flipside on December 02, 2009, 10:13:33 pm
I'll agree that Birth Control, or, at the least, Contraception for protection against STD's is required in third world countries, but the difference is that, in that case, it's about protecting third-world citizens, whereas this seems to be more about putting the blame on them.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 02, 2009, 10:26:37 pm
Oh yeah, I agree. I'm just hesitant to apply too much resistance to poor rationale for a good thing.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Solatar on December 02, 2009, 10:31:46 pm
You know what would really cut C02 emissions? Those God damned cows...all those cows farting all the time; stinking up my atmosphere.

It's funny 'cause it's true...
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Flipside on December 02, 2009, 10:35:30 pm
Apparently, Termites are guilty of producing several times as much CO2 as the worlds population of Cows, but are a staple part of so many diets that there is actually very little that can be done about it :(
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 03, 2009, 04:17:35 am
This will
A- be a good punishment for idiot chavs relying on sex to gain a council flat.
 
B- dunno.
 
C- does China or Malaysia have a one baby rule or something in place already? I can't guarantee that, but I thought I heard it somewhere already. I'm pretty sure that it was one of the huge population centres, imagine if the rule wasn't in place.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2009, 04:34:29 am
China has a one free baby rule. After that you have to pay.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 03, 2009, 04:44:37 am
China has a one free baby rule. After that you have to pay.

I'm pretty sure they're a bit more stringent then merely paying. At the least "pay a lot", but I think it's more "get a license that you'll never be approved for hahaha suckers".
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2009, 04:55:21 am
You'd be wrong. Virtually all my class have brothers or sisters.

It's actually a quite complicated system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy) that varies from province to province.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Kosh on December 03, 2009, 06:30:26 am
My problem is the fact that somehow reducing the number of consumers in the countries that have the least in the way of industry, and whose people consume the least in the way of luxuries and energy will somehow help CO2 emissions. If you want to reduce CO2 emissions by cutting populations, the third world is probably the worst place to start.

Edit: For example, the UK, if it had 25% less population would have a far greater impact on the worlds CO2 emissions than if Central Africa had 25% less population.

I was under the impression that population growth in the world has been coming almost entirely from poor nations.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: mxlm on December 03, 2009, 06:49:42 am
Sure. But poor nations aren't responsible for the lion's share of emissions. Remember that bit about the US alone consuming something like 1/4 of the world's resources? Yeah.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: castor on December 03, 2009, 07:51:07 am
Yet the poor nations also have the most potential for emission growth. So population control there is imperative anyway.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Flipside on December 03, 2009, 08:18:43 am
Birth rate is highest in poor countries, population growth is higher, iirc, in more advanced countries, due to immigration and the sudden increase in birth survival rates due to medicine.

Considering it's going to be decades before third world countries make any real kind of environmental impact, it is, surely, more important (at least from this particular point of view) to worry about the actual emmission creators than culling the environmental competition?

This just seems to be passing the buck, "We're creating tonnes of pollution, so quick, blame Africa!"
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Rian on December 03, 2009, 10:54:24 am
Yeah, it's a pretty obvious dodge to blame developing countries for emissions when the US is currently emitting at six or seven times the sustainable level.

That said, improving access to birth control in developing nations can have a lot of local economic benefits as well. If women aren’t trapped into having and raising more children than they can reasonably support, then fewer of them will be impoverished and more of them will be able to contribute to the economy. Fewer unwanted children can also mean less unemployment, crime, etc. because their parents are more able to provide for them, and better birth control access means less maternal death and less reliance on abortion (both legal and illegal.)

Unfortunately, there's a lot of suspicion in some regions toward any kind of external efforts to promote family planning. People still believe to some extent that there's strength in numbers, and worry about powerful western nations trying to weaken them by reducing birthrates. Some of the arguments start to sound like you're promoting eugenics, when in fact it's to everyone's benefit if women are able to take charge of their own childbearing capacity. It's a sensitive issue.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Sushi on December 03, 2009, 11:07:06 am
I still favor moving back to horse & buggy.   :P
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: BloodEagle on December 03, 2009, 11:47:59 am
Have you ever ridden in one of those? They're quite uncomfortable.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: StarSlayer on December 03, 2009, 12:18:43 pm
I still favor moving back to horse & buggy.   :P

I still favor being forced to fight wars with medieval technology.  Be a lot less apt to rush off to war if it meant having to hew through people nose to nose instead of killing people from miles away.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Turambar on December 03, 2009, 12:23:19 pm
also, going back to bows and arrows and swords will make it less effective to arm children and send them into battle, make it easier to distinguish between enemy troops and civilians, and reduce collateral damage.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Sushi on December 03, 2009, 01:00:49 pm
also, going back to bows and arrows and swords will make it less effective to arm children and send them into battle, make it easier to distinguish between enemy troops and civilians, and reduce collateral damage.

That settles it! Now, we just need to get the enemy (whoever they are) to agree to those terms...

Better yet, in order to save lives and prevent needless bloodshed, just have the leaders fight in single combat.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: StarSlayer on December 03, 2009, 01:31:38 pm
also, going back to bows and arrows and swords will make it less effective to arm children and send them into battle, make it easier to distinguish between enemy troops and civilians, and reduce collateral damage.

That settles it! Now, we just need to get the enemy (whoever they are) to agree to those terms...

Better yet, in order to save lives and prevent needless bloodshed, just have the leaders fight in single combat.

To be honest if I was President that would be my policy before committing to full scale war.  Trial by Combat with the opposing foreign leader.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: perihelion on December 03, 2009, 01:33:16 pm
I would totally pay to see that.
OBAMA!...
AHMADINEJAD!...

...FIGHT!
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2009, 04:23:47 pm
Better yet, in order to save lives and prevent needless bloodshed, just have the leaders fight in single combat.

Only if the speakers are playing Amok Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyhhFzE5O5U) in the background while it goes on. :p
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Liberator on December 03, 2009, 05:20:46 pm
I would totally pay to see that.
OBAMA!...
AHMADINEJAD!...

...FIGHT!
Like we don't all know how that'd turn out..... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: General Battuta on December 03, 2009, 05:24:31 pm
Obama crushing him with his ripped abs?
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: StarSlayer on December 03, 2009, 06:23:56 pm
Obama crushing him with his ripped abs?

Actually in a judicial duel foreign policy world Ahmadinejad probably isn't the one you need to worry about...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Vladimir_Putin_in_Japan_3-5_September_2000-23.jpg)

though Obama does have a fearsome fly swatting technique.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Scotty on December 03, 2009, 08:13:29 pm
"I demand a trial of grievance for you affront to my honor!"

That phrase would solve half of world politics.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: SpardaSon21 on December 03, 2009, 08:38:44 pm
Damn Clanners.  Can't you guys settle things the Inner Sphere way by sending every 'Mech in your command at the enemy in a sneak attack designed to destroy all his forces in a single blow, forcing him to admit his culpability?
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Scotty on December 03, 2009, 09:08:58 pm
Why can't you Spheroids learn that sending every 'Mech in your command invites massive retaliation and death for all involved. 

True honor is found in single combat. :P

(all views presented are not necessarily mine)
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 03, 2009, 10:13:18 pm
True honor is found in single combat. :P

Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: headdie on December 04, 2009, 02:46:52 am
True honor is found in single combat. :P

Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.

sorry i thought defeat was a mushy pulp on the floor
Title: Re: How not to present an idea...
Post by: Black Wolf on December 04, 2009, 05:24:20 am
You know what would really cut C02 emissions? Those God damned cows...all those cows farting all the time; stinking up my atmosphere.

It's funny 'cause it's true...

I don't know if it's also true for cows, but apparently sheep emit more greenhouse gasses through burps than farts.