Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Guthan on December 09, 2009, 12:04:51 pm

Title: SOC
Post by: Guthan on December 09, 2009, 12:04:51 pm
Hey, Im a newbie freespace 2/wing commander fan. When I saw this mod, I really appreciate the work that you guys did.

Heres just a suggestion for the SOC: It would be really neat if you guys can implement the well, in Wing Commander IV, the Dragon. Just to make it different for freespace 2, you can make it more shivanish, as its a result of a SOC experiment between the Shivan Dragon and various GTVA experiments.

As a result, this fighter would be the badass *excuse my french* and secret fighter.
Heres a schematic of what I would want for its specs:

Speed: 90 ms - Afterburners: would last for over 20 sec; up to 160 ms.
Armor: Heavy
Manuverbility: Extreme
Gun Ports: 6
Missile Ports: 3

Note: it will be radar invisible; or if you can implement the Wing Commander Cloak, that will be awesome!

Also; may you guys add a new weapon? Like the Flash bomb that the Dragon's in Wing Commander used to destroy ships in one hit?



To involve these ships in a storyline; you can have it where the UED forces mysteriously find one of their Destroyer's missing. What the player finds out is that the ship was destroyed, the Flash bomb works like a SABOOT round, where it sucks all the atmosphere out of the ship.

Eventually, you can make it where the player itself finds its production facilities, or make it where the player can even fly as one of these ships.


*shrug* just a suggestion and could add some drama in the game. Thank you for your hard work, and listening to me.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 12:54:24 pm
We've got some new hardware for the GTVA, don't worry. A lot of our innovations have more to do with ultra-skilled pilot AI than ultra-powerful ships.

And I'm afraid we couldn't make a whole UEF destroyer disappear because they've only got three of them and they all play a pretty critical story role.  :p

Glad to see you around. Stick around, join in the discussion! Have you played Age of Aquarius?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: headdie on December 09, 2009, 02:38:57 pm
maybe a destroyer would be to much anyway but a cruiser i think would be more feasible both in more plausible technobable and storyline, it would alow you to introduce storyline aspects involving fear of using cruisers because of the risk of loosing them suddenly so relying on their small number of larger ships causing great strain on their manpower
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Guthan on December 09, 2009, 03:53:21 pm
We've got some new hardware for the GTVA, don't worry. A lot of our innovations have more to do with ultra-skilled pilot AI than ultra-powerful ships.

And I'm afraid we couldn't make a whole UEF destroyer disappear because they've only got three of them and they all play a pretty critical story role.  :p

Glad to see you around. Stick around, join in the discussion! Have you played Age of Aquarius?

Yeah, i played age of aquarious, some of the missions gave me a headache haha. (meaning i failed it 2-3 times)

I just recently saw your ultra-skilled AI, and I am impressed.


Still, i know this is kinda pressing; but would it be too much if you guys might implement a storyline involving the SOC? Where some missions could be like a person flying as an SOC pilot. (Like in Halo 2, the switch between arbiter/master chief)

Anyways! Good luck with the designing of the missions!

Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 04:08:23 pm
Dilmah_G has FREDded a side campaign involving SOC pilots, and Foxtrot_Tango and eliex are working on a campaign involving the SOC.

However, the WiH story is very tight, very complete, and very far along in development. We aren't going to add a new viewpoint character at this stage.

All that said, once the modpack is out in the open, there's no reason why people couldn't FRED whatever they like.  :)
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Commander Zane on December 09, 2009, 04:12:52 pm
More mods featuring these ships would be great.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Vip on December 09, 2009, 04:28:36 pm
Dilmah_G has FREDded a side campaign involving SOC pilots, and Foxtrot_Tango and eliex are working on a campaign involving the SOC.

However, the WiH story is very tight, very complete, and very far along in development. We aren't going to add a new viewpoint character at this stage.

All that said, once the modpack is out in the open, there's no reason why people couldn't FRED whatever they like.  :)

Do I sense a link to this:

Quote from: Part 2: The Balance of Power
The battle of Neptune was a preliminary engagement but it was still a significant one. However, it led into an even more startling event - a high-risk, deep-cover SOC operation that brought the war home to the UEF.

 ;7
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 04:36:06 pm
MY LIPS ARE SEALED.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: AugustusVarius on December 09, 2009, 05:36:56 pm
My guess is that the "deep-cover SOC operation" is somehow related to the nuking of Luna mentioned in the WiH gameplay trailer.  In any case I'd like to see more campaigns with loops (SOC or otherwise) like the ones in the main FS2 campaign.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 05:45:32 pm
The problem with loops is that they're optional, so in a continuity-heavy campaign like Blue Planet, it means we'd have to write the rest of the story as if the main character had never experienced them.

Imagine if the Vishnan missions in AoA had been a loop!
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Scotty on December 09, 2009, 05:55:46 pm
Well, loops are optional yes, but it stands to reason that if the player refuses, someone else will "volunteer."  The missions will still happen, and the story can aknowledge that (and maybe tease the player about not accepting, like with a "Previous-event-false" check and a little quip about the loop's subject).
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: headdie on December 09, 2009, 07:15:22 pm
I think what Battuta is getting at is that say you have an SOC mission to recon a potential mission area for an ambitious fleet action and when going in the SOC pilots encounter say a new weapon the enemy shouldn't have and embark on subsequent missions in the loop to discover the weapons source and/or capability there needs to be a command brief to explain all this just in case the player chooses to opt out of the mission and therefor doesn't know what the missions explained

a good example of this in FS2 would be the second loop which explains the source of the additional shivan saths
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 08:33:56 pm
Actually, the problem that Scotty's missing is that the character herself will be now be missing a large chunk of her development - either that or the loop can't contain anything important to the character moving forward and can't be referred to again.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Droid803 on December 09, 2009, 08:36:09 pm
Wait her?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Scotty on December 09, 2009, 08:49:34 pm
Why can't the SOC loops be used to further the story, or make it more in-depth, instead of advancing the character's development?  AFAIK, story != character development.  Just because it didn't necessarily happen to the main character doesn't mean it can't be referred to again.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 08:55:11 pm
Because, barring head trauma, people do not simply forget events that happen to them.

It would be silly for the main character to have a span of time that she never referred back to.

Why add an optional loop of missions, when you could just make the same missions part of the campaign?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Scotty on December 09, 2009, 09:12:21 pm
We seem to be talking past each other. 

What I was saying, is that when (if) the player declines the SOC loop, why can't it be assumed that someone else did it?  Then in later missions, any lines that refer to the main character having done that be determined by a "previous-event-true" SEXP (or a "not""previous-event-true" as it may turn out).  That way, the SOC loop still happens for the purposes of the story, but not necessarily to the main character (but the option still exists for the SOC loop to be taken).

For your last point, I have no idea.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 09, 2009, 09:20:35 pm
I totally understand what you're saying, but you're talking about massive complexity added for minimal benefit. It's like somebody's suggestion that warship duels never be scripted, and that all possible outcomes should be taken into account by the campaign.

Adding a set of events that cannot be used to shape the character is narrative deadweight, especially when the same events could be shown in a way that does shape the character.

If the events are important enough to shape the story, they are important enough to shape the character, and thus the character must be able to refer to them. Events in a loop cannot be referenced by the character's later development because there's no guarantee the character experienced them.

Using hundreds of alternative SEXPs to change hundreds of lines of dialogue does not alter this, because the character's actions, as well as her words, are affected by what she has done in the past.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 10, 2009, 11:11:34 am
What the point of having optional loops anyway ? I mean, who ever ran the FS2 campaign without playing the loops ? Having this kind of missions being a simple part of the campaign instead of a loop just makes more sense.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dilmah G on December 10, 2009, 11:19:14 am
Dilmah_G has FREDded a side campaign involving SOC pilots, and Foxtrot_Tango and eliex are working on a campaign involving the SOC.

However, the WiH story is very tight, very complete, and very far along in development. We aren't going to add a new viewpoint character at this stage.

All that said, once the modpack is out in the open, there's no reason why people couldn't FRED whatever they like.  :)
Quote from: Part 2: The Balance of Power
The battle of Neptune was a preliminary engagement but it was still a significant one. However, it led into an even more startling event - a high-risk, deep-cover SOC operation that brought the war home to the UEF.

 ;7
AMG.

BATTUTA.
WE NEED TO TALK.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dilmah G on December 10, 2009, 11:21:28 am
On the note of an SOC Campaign, what do you guys want to see in it? (This is not a FRED-Your-Fantasy or anything, so leave those bloody socks at home, will you? :P)
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Thaeris on December 10, 2009, 04:22:37 pm
Atmospheric mission where your flight of GTF Kulas fighters, supported by Aroura recon fighters, is assigned to destroy a UEF airfield.

Interesting change in perspective, eh?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Guthan on December 10, 2009, 08:10:18 pm
Their has to be an evil side to the Ubuntu. I want the SOC to bring out those elements.










-Also, no mod has ever done this...but what happened to Aken Boosch? He was last seen talking with shivans, and well...the shivans took him in their transport.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 10, 2009, 09:57:05 pm
There's as much an 'evil side' to the UEF as there is to the GTVA. It's all up to your point of view.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Guthan on December 11, 2009, 01:14:09 am
I was just responding to dillman's post, when he suggested on making a campaign. I assumed he was working for you lads. it'd be interesting if something like that came out,

Like in WoW, both the alliance and horde have their ups and downs.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dilmah G on December 11, 2009, 03:04:03 am
Ah yeah, I'll talk it over with Bats and the Darii. :)
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: -Norbert- on December 11, 2009, 04:12:50 am
Quote
-Also, no mod has ever done this...but what happened to Aken Boosch? He was last seen talking with shivans, and well...the shivans took him in their transport
Not entirely true. I remember once playing a campaign in which Bosch somehow was transported back in time during a jump into another galaxy. And the battlegroup you are part of somehow ends up in that galaxy (without the timetravel) to meed with a culture that are the offspring of Bosch and his command crew.

But I don't remember the name of said campaign.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2009, 09:34:00 am
There's as much an 'evil side' to the UEF as there is to the GTVA. It's all up to your point of view.

The UEF as you and Darius have presented it is pretty much a flat impossiblity. :P There has to be more.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dilmah G on December 11, 2009, 10:04:00 am
Oh, but there is. ;)
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Snail on December 11, 2009, 10:48:18 am
The Fedayeen have to be like evil black ops guys or something ("state sponsored terrorists").
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dragon on December 11, 2009, 12:57:50 pm
From what I read about them, they seem to be a bit like that, though I'm not sure if actually evil.
I feel that they're not too sympathic.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 11, 2009, 02:52:14 pm
There's as much an 'evil side' to the UEF as there is to the GTVA. It's all up to your point of view.

The UEF as you and Darius have presented it is pretty much a flat impossiblity.

No. The difference between the UEF and today's governments is smaller than that between today's governments and those of a few hundred years ago. Given accelerating social changes due to self-catalyzing systems, this is not implausible.

Besides, treating the UEF as a homogeneous group is silly. It contains at least three major states with significant culture differences.

Quote
:P There has to be more.

Possibly.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2009, 05:09:09 pm
No. The difference between the UEF and today's governments is smaller than that between today's governments and those of a few hundred years ago. Given accelerating social changes due to self-catalyzing systems, this is not implausible.

Besides, treating the UEF as a homogeneous group is silly. It contains at least three major states with significant culture differences.

You have pretty much described the overarching mechanism, I.E. the Elders ask nicely and everyone does it, which is itself not a sufficently strong governmental system, regardless of any amount of social change, to hold together anything. The more you say it's not a homogenous group, the more silly what sketchy description of it you've made sounds. So far all that's been said or can be deduced of the UEF more or less requires it to be very homogenous simply to function.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Dragon on December 11, 2009, 05:30:34 pm
I don't think that this system works solely on "Elders ask nicely and everyone does it".
For example, if some government doesn't do for what Elders ask, the Fedayeen may then come and ask them... less nicely.  :)
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: SpardaSon21 on December 11, 2009, 05:58:15 pm
So they're a "benevolent" oligarchy basically, the benevolence entirely depending on whether or not you are agreeing with the Elders' decisions?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: Vip on December 11, 2009, 06:07:45 pm
So they're a "benevolent" oligarchy basically, the benevolence entirely depending on whether or not you are agreeing with the Elders' decisions?

According to the UEF, every time you oppose the Elders, a kitten dies. Thus it is pure evil to not agree with them and you shall be dealt with in an appropriate manner.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: SpardaSon21 on December 11, 2009, 06:13:54 pm
I figured it was something like that.  *Sigh.*
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 11, 2009, 08:06:06 pm
No, this is all pure speculation. I'm not sure where NGTM-1R is coming from but it's certainly an incomplete analysis.

No. The difference between the UEF and today's governments is smaller than that between today's governments and those of a few hundred years ago. Given accelerating social changes due to self-catalyzing systems, this is not implausible.

Besides, treating the UEF as a homogeneous group is silly. It contains at least three major states with significant culture differences.

You have pretty much described the overarching mechanism, I.E. the Elders ask nicely and everyone does it, which is itself not a sufficently strong governmental system, regardless of any amount of social change, to hold together anything. The more you say it's not a homogenous group, the more silly what sketchy description of it you've made sounds. So far all that's been said or can be deduced of the UEF more or less requires it to be very homogenous simply to function.

You do not have adequate information to make an accurate assessment of the structure of the UEF or the functionality of the Ubuntu program.

The role of the Fedayeen is far more complicated and nuanced than that of an internal police force or death squad.

You'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2009, 08:08:58 pm
You do not have adequate information to make an accurate assessment of the structure of the UEF or the functionality of the Ubuntu program.

Yes, true, but then again I have enough to start making educated guesses, and I did more or less quote you from a previous thread. Were you lying? :P
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 11, 2009, 08:16:27 pm
Possibly. Unless it comes direct from a canon source, consider it the speculation of a fellow fan.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2009, 08:48:24 pm
Possibly. Unless it comes direct from a canon source, consider it the speculation of a fellow fan.

We call that "pulling an Aldo" after his promises Lost Souls wouldn't include a Claymore.
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: General Battuta on December 12, 2009, 12:45:35 am
Okay, I just won't say anything at all. Would that be preferable?
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 12, 2009, 07:52:40 am
I'm kidding. Next time I'll add the proper similies. :P
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on December 13, 2009, 03:58:06 pm
A throwaway reference to Snipes would be cool in a snippet of dialog. A great way to make a great campaign even better.

Alpha 1: "Okay Alpha wing, keep a tight formation and keep your jammers and scanners running. On their scopes we should look like a very average hunk of rock. With any luck these Martians won't know even know we were here."

Alpha 3: "..."

Alpha 2: "Something wrong 3?"

Alpha 3: "I hate this. If we're unlucky and we're detected it'll take at least a minute to power up the main drives. We're helpless like this."

Alpha 2: "We're outside their main traffic corridor, shouldn't be a problem."

Alpha 2: "I wonder about that, what if they jump right on top of us? Surprise inspection? We have limited intel as it is on this base."

Alpha 1: "Then we do the Snipes Shuffle and pray for the best, now cut the chatter and start acting like rocks."

Alpha 2 and 3: "Yes Sir."

...

*Jump signature detected*

Alpha 1: "Picking up a signature... now, jackpot boys its a Martian destroyer, probably the Cherubim. Command will want to know about this."

Alpha 3: "Distance 200 klicks and closing, drives looks damaged, she's hopping forward a few jumps at a time... trajectory is... oh no."

Alpha 1: "Damn it! They're going to smash right into us... we can't let this data be destroyed. All fighters, power up NOW!"

Alpha 2: "Sir... it's getting closer."

*20 seconds remain until collision."

Alpha 1: "I know."

**Another jump and the destroyer moves closer**

Alpha 3: "Sir!"

**Another jump and the destroyer moves closer**

"I know I know! Just pick a direction and BURN damnit! On my mark"

*5 seconds to collision*

**Power restored**

Alpha 1: "NOW PILOTS! Go weapons hot! Stay alive until the jump drives are charged. We're not out of this yet!"

Title: Re: SOC
Post by: headdie on December 13, 2009, 04:05:21 pm
with the destroyer approaching i was thinking about dive dive dive...
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on December 13, 2009, 04:06:55 pm
Well, only a fan possibility. But one has to mix things up from time to time...

SOC, improvisation central.  :yes:
Title: Re: SOC
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 13, 2009, 05:24:22 pm
Everyone loves snipes.