Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on December 22, 2009, 09:23:49 am
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Holy crap (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/12/20/the-fall-of-uk-science/)
I have been quiet about the woes being suffered in the UK over science funding. That’s mostly because it’s hard enough keeping up with the attacks here in the U.S.! But the Science and Technology Facilities Council (STFC) has been underfunded and in trouble financially for a while now, and they announced last week that they will make up the gap by basically slashing and burning major amounts of science research in the UK.
How much? Well, gone will be the UK participation in SOHO, Cassini, Venus Express, and XMM. These are major projects, and just in astronomy. Also gone will be many more projects — some critical — across the science spectrum.
I don't get it, there's all this paranoia (at least in the US) about losing our tech and science lead to India and China, and what does the UK do? Make massive cutbacks of course. :rolleyes: What is wrong with you people....... :p
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That's the English way, be glad you don't work in defence over there.
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The Brits have always been a bit weirdly backwards...
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And hey, I have to live with it.
On a much smaller scale, £9000 of local council money was given towards.. wait for it.. etiquette lessons. Or put simple, teaching council workers how to be nice to people.
This country needs help, or napalm. I'm just not sure which I'd welcome more sometimes. It's not all bad, but by god I'm amazed at the decisions that get carried through at every level of authority.
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Funny how Americans hate generalisations whilst at the same time being more than happy to make them....
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Ironic statement is ironic. ;)
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Funny how Americans hate generalisations whilst at the same time being more than happy to make them....
Hey, I'm not the one who goes off on generalizations. :p
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Well, the day I accuse you all of being overweight, gun-happy, fanatical Christians with no sense of geography, then we'll be equal :p
Seriously though, I don't mind satire about bad teeth and stuff like that, I'll agree we give as good as we get, but 'wierdly backwards' is not a term I'd use to describe the British, though I will admit that the Government is strangely obedient to large corporations, and it's those that have killed science and innovation, across the world, not Governments.
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Yes, but it's not really a generalization either. If you compare brit appliances or cars for the last twenty years to models from the continent or the US, they're typically technologically and ergonomically...stunted, reflecting a poverty of engineering and science. You can see stuff like this going back to WW2. British engineers are historically great idea men, but their execution is usually somewhat lacking and they like complex solutions to simple problems.
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We don't even really make cars etc any more that's the problem. Thatcher, may her soul burn for an eternity, completely destroyed most of our Primary and Secondary industries, made us into a Tertiary-based economy. Look at Rolls Royce. Aston Martin etc, Britain used to have a reputation for quality and innovation, but that has died in the name of short-term profit, those product are now largely owned by offshore companies now.
The problem isn't that the quality is falling or that we are 'backward' in any way, it's that all of our main production industries simply don't exist any more, we truly are a nation of shopkeepers these days, as well as i-dotters, t-crossers and paper-filers.
Rather than being 'stunted' as you put it, the UK was actually a centre of world innovation after the war, whether it was artistic, industrial or even social, but, as you say, in the last 20 years most of those manufacturing industries have moved abroad, our artistic industry has been, ironically enough, 'Americanized' (which makes no sense as a word, since America actually has quite a diverse artistic populace) and our social system has been constricted by a series of laws that are very similar to America's own Patriot Act and connected legislation.
Edit: Basically, what is happening in the UK is being mirrored across the Western world in one way or another, it might be beneficial to hold a mirror up to every country involved before we define who is 'backward' and who isn't.
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I've got an idea! :)
[sarcasm]
Let's revolt! It will solve all our problems!
[/sarcasm]
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Eating our own seed corn. I've been saying that the British government has been determined to do that for years. This is simply more proof of that.
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We don't even really make cars etc any more that's the problem. Thatcher, may her soul burn for an eternity, completely destroyed most of our Primary and Secondary industries, made us into a Tertiary-based economy. Look at Rolls Royce. Aston Martin etc, Britain used to have a reputation for quality and innovation, but that has died in the name of short-term profit, those product are now largely owned by offshore companies now.
The problem isn't that the quality is falling or that we are 'backward' in any way, it's that all of our main production industries simply don't exist any more, we truly are a nation of shopkeepers these days, as well as i-dotters, t-crossers and paper-filers.
Rather than being 'stunted' as you put it, the UK was actually a centre of world innovation after the war, whether it was artistic, industrial or even social, but, as you say, in the last 20 years most of those manufacturing industries have moved abroad, our artistic industry has been, ironically enough, 'Americanized' (which makes no sense as a word, since America actually has quite a diverse artistic populace) and our social system has been constricted by a series of laws that are very similar to America's own Patriot Act and connected legislation.
Which is why a comparison of UK products in the '50s and '60s to Continental or US equivalents is even more damning. Something went terribly, terribly wrong in the British engineering establishment between WWI and WWII. You can see it reflected in nearly everything designed by British engineers until about 1970; it will perform worse and be more tempermental than foreign equivalents. Thatcher may have done you a favor.
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In the aerospace sector, Britain has virtually 35% of the world’s aero-engine market.
Britain cannot compete any longer with the labour markets of the Far East for high-volume, low-cost products but we can and do compete very vigorously for projects that need the ingenuity of modern engineers.
http://www.beeas.co.uk/winners-2009.html
And honestly.
Americans cannot comment on British Engineering until Ford, GM and Dodge are put out of business permanently, only reason they're still in business is cuz "thay'RE 'mericaaaaan, gotta support da 'merican stuff man"
*Doesn't mean I'm not miffed about the topic.
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You're all overweight, gun-happy, fanatical Christians with no sense of geography. :p
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And honestly.
Americans cannot comment on British Engineering until Ford, GM and Dodge are put out of business permanently, only reason they're still in business is cuz "thay'RE 'mericaaaaan, gotta support da 'merican stuff man"
Come back when you've actually looked at the products they've been putting out over the past few years, particularly Ford. :p
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And honestly.
Americans cannot comment on British Engineering until Ford, GM and Dodge are put out of business permanently, only reason they're still in business is cuz "thay'RE 'mericaaaaan, gotta support da 'merican stuff man"
Come back when you've actually looked at the products they've been putting out over the past few years, particularly Ford. :p
Not sure if I completely agree about the past few years but they are starting to produce some world class stuff again... needs a few years for people to realize it but I think they will see a resurgence of popularity. Assuming they don't cheap out halfway through their resurgence and shoot themselves in the foot... because you know they want to. Not yet... but their memories are short.
Canada has similar problems to the UK and the US... production is disappearing and being replaced by high tech jobs. Some of the green jobs aren't so bad either because it's actual manufacturing as far as I can tell and some small businesses are getting attention when they do good stuff. But the heavy industry and steel mills... huge problems there. Too much ownership by American companies that, when times are tough, favour their American mills rather than their Canadian ones. Lost far too many auto manufacturing capabilities too.
You know if there were ever to be another clash of civilizations... North America doesn't have the manufacturing it once did.
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Funny how Americans hate generalisations whilst at the same time being more than happy to make them....
Hold on a sec, all British aren't like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bmsluWHZc&feature=related) Great... now I need to spend some time reevaluating my global view.
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Funny how Americans hate generalisations whilst at the same time being more than happy to make them....
Personally I think its ok to make generalizations as long as one realizes it does not apply to literally everyone in that particular subset.
Canada has similar problems to the UK and the US... production is disappearing and being replaced by high tech jobs.
Then again those high tech jobs generally pay a lot better. The problem is they are only really available to the few smart enough to understand it.
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What no one is mentioning is that this is the end result of the gigatons of "social equity" being pushed aggressively by the politicians. Because the more "justice" they can dole out, the more power they get.
The more "justice" they dole out, the less monies there are for actually necessary projects and sectors. How do you innovate when your innovators are on the teat parasitizing they're children's and grandchildren's future...
I do NOT want to see the generations yet to come born into a debt slavery that they cannot escape except by death, simply because Bobo, Frieda and they're hundreds of millions of friends wanted a free ride.
Get something through your heads, we are not post-scarcity yet, and if you keep acting like we are, we never will be.
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And Liberator joins Trashman in the No Gen Disc bin for this piece of trolling.
It was a week old topic and this post had next to nothing to do with the actual subject.