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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Marcov on December 22, 2009, 07:49:54 pm

Title: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Marcov on December 22, 2009, 07:49:54 pm
Before you leave this thread after voting, please take note of these questions:

1. Which juggernaut is most dangerous against fighters?

2. Which is the most dangerous against capital ships?

3. In your opinion, which is the most effective, overall?

4. Which looks the coolest?

If I've missed any other juggernaut, please inform me.

Let the battle begin!
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 22, 2009, 07:52:24 pm
Look Here (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/User-made_Ships#Super_Capital_Ships_.28Battleships.2C_Dreadnoughts_and_Juggernauts.29), you missed some.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Scotty on December 22, 2009, 07:52:30 pm
1.  Can't objectively evaluate, but the Sath always pisses me off with it's beams.

2.  Sath.  4 BFReds is painful.  The Phoenicia agrees with me.

3.  Sath does what it means to, namely, beat the **** out of other ships.

4.  Sath.  Spider of Doom.  That shoots beams.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 22, 2009, 08:06:03 pm
Well, in Retail, the one and only Juggernaut in the game, the Sathanas. :P
There's only one instance in the entire FreeSpace 2 game that gives evidence of the Colossus's intended class and that is Battleship, which is frankly, not Juggernaut. :P
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Hades on December 22, 2009, 08:35:20 pm
There's only one instance in the entire FreeSpace 2 game that gives evidence of the Colossus's intended class and that is Battleship
What was that?

Honestly, the Sathanas, Colossus, and most other juggernauts on that list are ugly. I think I like the Titan the best.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 22, 2009, 08:37:08 pm
That's a SiegeDriver from Sword of the Stars. lol.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Hades on December 22, 2009, 08:38:33 pm
That's a SiegeDriver from Sword of the Stars. lol.
I am very aware of this, it was actually said in the release thread with Vengence (misspelling happens to be his username) released it.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 22, 2009, 08:39:10 pm
Well, it's still badass.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 22, 2009, 08:42:42 pm
There's only one instance in the entire FreeSpace 2 game that gives evidence of the Colossus's intended class and that is Battleship
What was that?

Honestly, the Sathanas, Colossus, and most other juggernauts on that list are ugly. I think I like the Titan the best.
Colossus cinematic.

And yes, the Titan is simply badass. :D
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Hades on December 22, 2009, 08:51:00 pm
What evidence? I just watched the cinematic and I didn't see anything that remotely suggests that the Colossus is a battleship.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 22, 2009, 08:54:00 pm
It's in the form of a subliminal message, it's hard to see but at the same time it's in plain sight.

Try looking for "GTVA Battle Ship of massive proportions."
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Scotty on December 22, 2009, 08:59:15 pm
Try it without the random capital letters and it can still be a Juggernaut, seeing as "battleship" can just a likely refer to a ship that does battle. ;)
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Snail on December 22, 2009, 09:07:01 pm
It's in the form of a subliminal message, it's hard to see but at the same time it's in plain sight.

Try looking for "GTVA Battle Ship of epic proportions."
Which was obviously an easter egg and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 22, 2009, 09:11:08 pm
Try it without the random capital letters and it can still be a Juggernaut, seeing as "battleship" can just a likely refer to a ship that does battle. ;)
I typed it verbatim.
Well not quite verbatim, it should say massive proportions. :nervous:
Now it is.

It's in the form of a subliminal message, it's hard to see but at the same time it's in plain sight.

Try looking for "GTVA Battle Ship of epic proportions."
Which was obviously an easter egg and shouldn't be taken seriously.
It is the ONLY evidence of a classification. The way I see it's simply ignorance to try to even push away the one and only existing hint of what it is.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Snail on December 22, 2009, 09:33:21 pm
It's in the form of a subliminal message, it's hard to see but at the same time it's in plain sight.

Try looking for "GTVA Battle Ship of epic proportions."
Which was obviously an easter egg and shouldn't be taken seriously.
It is the ONLY evidence of a classification. The way I see it's simply ignorance to try to even push away the one and only existing hint of what it is.
Fine if that's what you think.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Aardwolf on December 22, 2009, 10:55:17 pm
1. Idunno

2. Dangerous to capships, without being absurd? I'd say Inferno's SCa Shiamak.

3. Idunno

4. SJ Sathanas, or if it were upgraded (nice base design but low-detail / 'meh' textures), Inferno's SCa Shiamak.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 23, 2009, 01:48:52 am
I think juggernauts are supposed to be able to fight against ships of equal size. Which the Colossus was not build for : it's definitely a destroyer killer and nothing else. Feel free to think it as my own interpretation though.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 23, 2009, 02:30:03 am
Try it without the random capital letters and it can still be a Juggernaut, seeing as "battleship" can just a likely refer to a ship that does battle. ;)
I typed it verbatim.
Well not quite verbatim, it should say massive proportions. :nervous:
Now it is.

It's in the form of a subliminal message, it's hard to see but at the same time it's in plain sight.

Try looking for "GTVA Battle Ship of epic proportions."
Which was obviously an easter egg and shouldn't be taken seriously.
It is the ONLY evidence of a classification. The way I see it's simply ignorance to try to even push away the one and only existing hint of what it is.
In retail colossus is clearly meant to be the GTVA's version of the Sathanas. See: both have the same armour, the same length, and are both the species super-capship of Doom!!TM, even if, later on the Sathanas Juggernauts outnumbered the collosus >80 to one, the Sathanas did not grow in size and power, only numbers (albeit, supernova). Also note that the colossus and sathanas have equal casualties; colly kills sath, sath kills colly. It seems to be quite implied that the Colossus is on the same level as the Sathanas, to create a far greater realisation of "we are so in for it" when >80 show up. This seems to contradict, however slightly the "ONLY evidence of classification" it being dug up from a text reference in passing during a cinematic, which in the original game, read absurd text such as "Maths is cool" (pffft!)(or is it math is cool...) and is clearly not meant to be legible.
And, obviously due to the GTVA designation, the Colossus is definitely meant to be an advanced warning and control system following the line that freespace ships follow.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 23, 2009, 02:31:17 am
I WANT ICANUS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Dragon on December 23, 2009, 05:56:39 am
And I vote for Stratcomm's Archangel dreadnought.
It's a great design, with one big, honkin' cannon on the front, two just big cannons on the top and bottom, and a whole load of standard sized heavy beams.
Plus a load of AAA beams scattered across it's hull and if that wasn't enough, it have some flak cannons and missile launchers.
If it was HTLed, it would be even better.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 23, 2009, 06:46:10 am
I'll take the equivalent tonnage in corvettes, thanks.

Preferably Chimeras.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2009, 07:05:18 am
Given the number of custom ships, classification is a problem. People make ships for their own campaigns and balance them accordingly. And name them accordingly.

Who's stopping you from making a 20km long ships and naming it a Jugg?
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Firartix on December 23, 2009, 07:18:43 am
Where you found all those ?
I only know about Sathanass and Colossus.
Well, they mention the "Colossal" at some point of Homesick, which they say is supposed to be 20km long (or something like that) <_<

I guess i better try Inferno....
Mmmh, right now, i'm going for Aftermath, maybe later :P
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 23, 2009, 07:43:34 am
Icanus still. Even if it is a super jug.
 
Punisher / shocker cannon wins.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 23, 2009, 07:51:53 am
In retail colossus is clearly meant to be the GTVA's version of the Sathanas. See: both have the same armour, the same length, and are both the species super-capship of Doom!!TM, even if, later on the Sathanas Juggernauts outnumbered the collosus >80 to one, the Sathanas did not grow in size and power, only numbers (albeit, supernova).
What do numbers have to do with anything?

Quote
Also note that the colossus and sathanas have equal casualties; colly kills sath, sath kills colly. It seems to be quite implied that the Colossus is on the same level as the Sathanas, to create a far greater realisation of "we are so in for it" when >80 show up. This seems to contradict, however slightly the "ONLY evidence of classification" it being dug up from a text reference in passing during a cinematic, which in the original game, read absurd text such as "Maths is cool" (pffft!)(or is it math is cool...) and is clearly not meant to be legible.
1: The Colossus is in function against the Sathanas of what the Demon is against the Ravana, defensive combat weapons placement against offensive.
2: How the hell does that contradict anything?
3: If it was meant to be illegible then they wouldn't have made it so easy to read.

Quote
And, obviously due to the GTVA designation, the Colossus is definitely meant to be an advanced warning and control system following the line that freespace ships follow.
Wait...what? The Colossus has no AWACS traits unlike the Sathanas, so apparently the Sathanas should really be "SA" from what you're saying.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Kie99 on December 23, 2009, 08:14:12 am
Where you found all those ?
I only know about Sathanass and Colossus.
Well, they mention the "Colossal" at some point of Homesick, which they say is supposed to be 20km long (or something like that) <_<

That was supposed to be a joke, he was speaking about rumours he's heard, he wasn't supposed to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Rodo on December 23, 2009, 08:44:42 am
Sath is the only valid option for me, so I'm with the shivans here..
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Marcov on December 23, 2009, 08:47:11 am
Given the number of custom ships, classification is a problem. People make ships for their own campaigns and balance them accordingly. And name them accordingly.

Who's stopping you from making a 20km long ships and naming it a Jugg?

Beyond 8 kilometers is already overkill  :D I mean, can a Sathanas be better against capital ships than an entire Gigas superjuggernaut?

OK fine, post about the bigger ones, but the choices still remain the same.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 25, 2009, 10:49:58 pm
/me has voted.

Sathanas, HUR HUR HUR.

Killing a Sathanas was what prompted the GTVA to rely more on their smaller ships more than their big guns. There is no other ship in the FreeSpace universe that can make that claim.

If few people vote for the Ancient ships, it's probably because the Akrotiri is always placed in a position where it becomes pathetic (i.e. someone decides to blow up its main gun) and because nobody's ever used the Androgeos.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Dragon on December 26, 2009, 02:13:09 pm
Just wait a few days, to ASW release date.
Akrotiri's rating will quickly go up.
Androgeos will not be used jet, but it's too early for the largest guns (it's the first act of a much longer story).
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 26, 2009, 03:52:11 pm
It's almost ready for release? :D
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 27, 2009, 04:20:57 am
It's almost ready for release? :D
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: IronBeer on December 27, 2009, 03:37:13 pm
Of those given, my vote goes to the Archangel II.

Course, my fav super cap is the Gigas. Just something about being able to blast a fleet of Juggernauts with one salvo.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 27, 2009, 04:00:47 pm
OP shouild post images for those of us unaware (myself not included) of what said beasts look like...


Still no Icanus yet though :sigh:
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 27, 2009, 06:31:11 pm
OP shouild post images for those of us unaware (myself not included) of what said beasts look like...


Still no Icanus yet though :sigh:
GTVA Colossus
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtvacolossus-old.jpg)

GTVBS Archangel Mk2
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Archymk2.jpg)

GTDn Archangel
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtdnarchangel.jpg)

GTBs Moscow
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtbsmoscow.jpg)

GTVA Titan
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtvatitan.jpg)

SODn Solaris
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Sodnsolaris.jpg)

TSJ Icanus
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Tsjicanus.jpg)

SJ Sathanas
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Sjsathanas.jpg)

SJ Amritaya
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Sjamritaya.jpg)

SJ Dante
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Ssjdante.jpg)

SSJ Gigas
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Ssjgigas.jpg)

SPD Vinaashak
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Spdvinaashak.jpg)

ACa Akrotiri
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Vishnansacredkeeper.jpg)

AJ Androgeos
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Androgeos.jpg)

Vishnan Preserver
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Vishnanpreserver.jpg)

Edit: added Akrotiri as it's on the poll list but not the Super Capital Ships list.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 27, 2009, 06:41:52 pm
Why'd you post an Icanus pic without having a vote option. That's mean  :blah:
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Commander Zane on December 27, 2009, 06:44:54 pm
And the Moscow.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 27, 2009, 06:47:53 pm
Umm-Hmm, i like that thing txtured up.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 27, 2009, 07:23:37 pm
Why'd you post an Icanus pic without having a vote option. That's mean  :blah:
I posted a pic of the ships we're talking about, not those we're voting on.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Hades on December 27, 2009, 10:44:39 pm
And I vote for Stratcomm's Archangel dreadnought.
It's a great design, with one big, honkin' cannon on the front, two just big cannons on the top and bottom, and a whole load of standard sized heavy beams.
Plus a load of AAA beams scattered across it's hull and if that wasn't enough, it have some flak cannons and missile launchers.
If it was HTLed, it would be even better.
I think there actually is an high-poly version in Stratcomm's model dump. I'll have a look into it tonight.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 27, 2009, 10:46:49 pm
It's got no turrets other than the main ones, though I think it's mostly complete.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Tantalus53 on December 27, 2009, 11:08:55 pm
Might be an ED Related Bias, but my money's on none of those listed above, but the Ameratsu.


   
The Best Juggernaut
« on: December 22, 2009, 09:49:54 pm »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Before you leave this thread after voting, please take note of these questions:

1. I'de think the Colossus would be the most dangerous against fighters. It was packed with all sorts of AAA Turrets.

2. Ameratsu FTW. Where the Sathanas would have the advantage /usually/ with its group of BF Reds, Ameratsu's BBlues and BFBlue has them outnumbered if it can bring all its main cannons to bear. Plus. Sathanas never fires all four BF Reds at once ive noticed...

3. Ameratsu again. It can prey on large ships as well as small ones, and its pretty damn awesome looking to boot >>

4. See above.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Scotty on December 27, 2009, 11:13:02 pm
Sath usually fires all four BFReds at the Phoenicia, at least when I play.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 27, 2009, 11:15:41 pm
It's a difficulty thing.
If the Sath isn't firing all four, no other ship will fire more than 3 turrets at any one target.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: General Battuta on December 27, 2009, 11:49:20 pm
Might be an ED Related Bias, but my money's on none of those listed above, but the Ameratsu.


   
The Best Juggernaut
« on: December 22, 2009, 09:49:54 pm »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Before you leave this thread after voting, please take note of these questions:

1. I'de think the Colossus would be the most dangerous against fighters. It was packed with all sorts of AAA Turrets.

2. Ameratsu FTW. Where the Sathanas would have the advantage /usually/ with its group of BF Reds, Ameratsu's BBlues and BFBlue has them outnumbered if it can bring all its main cannons to bear. Plus. Sathanas never fires all four BF Reds at once ive noticed...

3. Ameratsu again. It can prey on large ships as well as small ones, and its pretty damn awesome looking to boot >>

4. See above.


Fan-made juggs really shouldn't be a part of this poll. I could table any big warship with instakill wtfbbqpwn beams and say it was the best.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Droid803 on December 27, 2009, 11:50:55 pm
Then it'd just be a Colly vs Sath thread...

Or just a Sath thread.

Rather, power of the juggernaut should not be taken into account. It's arbitrary. I can arm an elysium with some capable of penetrating a Gargant in one shot. It's just numbers.

Instead, we should vote on which one looks the best.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: General Battuta on December 27, 2009, 11:53:16 pm
Yeah. Or which one is the best tool for storytelling.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 27, 2009, 11:55:46 pm
Fan-made juggs really shouldn't be a part of this poll. I could table any big warship with instakill wtfbbqpwn beams and say it was the best.
They're all fan made jugs but for the Colly and Sath. Extremely good fans but fans nonetheless. Boring poll if you just have two ships to choose from, and that's not what this poll is about. Keep in mind how realistic a ship is but don't let it rule out the majority of ships just cause you could put whatever you want in them.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Thaeris on December 27, 2009, 11:56:23 pm
Hmmm...

Reading this thread brings to light that the Wiki needs some maintainace. I couldn't find an article on the Ameratsu anywhere in the User-Made Ship database.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: General Battuta on December 27, 2009, 11:58:14 pm
I don't think it's been used in any substantial way in anything yet.

Fan-made juggs really shouldn't be a part of this poll. I could table any big warship with instakill wtfbbqpwn beams and say it was the best.
They're all fan made jugs but for the Colly and Sath. Extremely good fans but fans nonetheless. Boring pole if you just have two ships to choose from, and that's not what this pole is about. Keep in mind how realistic a ship is but don't let it rule out the majority of ships just cause you could put whatever you want in them.

Really, d'you think?

It's 'poll'.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Killer Whale on December 28, 2009, 12:22:47 am
er... yeah.

@poll. Fixed. Don't know how I made that mistake twice.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: General Battuta on December 28, 2009, 12:27:36 am
My point was that if the poll is 'best combatant' then fan-made juggs have no place. If the poll is 'best storytelling tool' (which it should be; juggs are essentially giant props) then they should be debated on their merits in that regard.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: TrashMan on December 28, 2009, 12:58:13 am
We need size categories too. Icanus is..like 26 km or something? How can you compare it to the Colossuss?
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 28, 2009, 01:06:32 am
There is no comparison.
Not referring to size or prowess. I just LOVE the ship more. . .
 
And at the end of the day, that was the original question.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Marcov on December 28, 2009, 08:53:07 am
...Sathanas never fires all four BF Reds at once ive noticed...

I tried arming ALL SATH turrets with BFReds...It destroyed Colly in like eight seconds; it probably fired all available broadside weaponry it could in one time (the Sath was parallel to Colly).
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Titan on December 28, 2009, 09:57:49 am
Titan... for obvious reasons...
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: General Battuta on December 28, 2009, 10:22:11 am
...Sathanas never fires all four BF Reds at once ive noticed...

I tried arming ALL SATH turrets with BFReds...It destroyed Colly in like eight seconds; it probably fired all available broadside weaponry it could in one time (the Sath was parallel to Colly).

The number of beams the Sath fires is tied to difficulty.
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 28, 2009, 11:19:08 am
ACa Akrotiri
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Vishnansacredkeeper.jpg)

Uh, that's not exactly called the ACa Akrotiri... :nervous:
Title: Re: The Best Juggernaut
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on December 28, 2009, 11:26:44 am
Depends of what mod you're playing :P