Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: S-99 on January 08, 2010, 11:58:05 pm
-
I've already mentioned this in another thread. And i've mentioned this a while ago via the link "beephkakes" in my sig. But, the ancients in a mod calling themselves the ancients is inane. And the ancients calling themselves the ancients as some kind of homage to their long lasting empire is an excuse.
The ancients are one of the four species that's integral to the fs storyline. We certainly don't get to hear of an actual name for their species from V. V probably never came up with a name for the ancients at all. People here need to stop taking baby steps by finding ways of just referring to the ancients as the ancients.
Recommendations and consensus of names for the ancients species?
-
Call them Ancients. At least in the context of ASW it makes sense, since the mod is being experienced through the eyes of a Vasudan.
Anything else will just feel silly. There's very little that's worse than a fictional alien name, and the good ones are few and far between.
I'm not sure at the moment that I can think of anything better for them to call each other. The People? Humanity?
-
Altairians?
(I'm assuming their homeworld was Altair IV.)
Humanity calls itself the "Terrans", which is just a slightly fancier way of saying "Earthlings", after all.
Well, that's my two cents.
-
Right, but they wouldn't have called the planet Altair, now would've they?
-
Point.
Well, where did the ASW team get names like Aesdher? Couldn't the Ancient homeworld be named in the same theme?
But then, I guess that just descends into "made-up alien names" territory again, doesn't it? :sigh:
-
Yeah...I dunno. It's just hard to capture the essence of the race in a made-up Tolkienesque name thing.
-
Where do we find out that the player in ASW is playing through the eyes of a Vasudan? That would make a lot of sense, I just haven't been able to find that anywhere.
Vahrenians (add or delete vowels as you see fit) is my vote - Slight misspelling of "Varuna" a very old Hindu god associated with the sea (like the Minoans).
Since "Vasudan" and "Shivan" are both Hindu derivatives, why not keep the theme going?
Of course I highly doubt we'll get any consensus; it's akin to taking a community vote to see what happens after FS2.
-
The thing with that is that all the Hindu-derivative names (Shivan, Vasudan) were actually generated by Terrans. There weren't any around to give one to the Ancients. When we did give them a name, it was Minoan.
The other thing is that I think it's kind of a rule of good writing not to give your main characters names that start with the same first letter. We've already got them Vasudans.
Still, something else Hinduesque might work.
-
Well, I'm ok with giving them a name that means something in a Terran language because the game (at least for some of us) IS in English. :P
The Prachinahm (I like Prachinahmen for plural, even though it's not a German root) would be a second choice for me. A quick google look at some Hindu dictionaries would suggest it means "old/ancient". Well, it gave me praachiinam...
I just like "significant" names like that. Vasuda meaning "Earth", etc.
EDIT: I know I'm quoted, but I had to change "live" to "like" :).
-
I like that.
-
Well, I'm ok with giving them a name that means something in a Terran language because the game (at least for some of us) IS in English. :P
The Prachinahm (I like Prachinahmen for plural, even though it's not a German root) would be a second choice for me. A quick google look at some Hindu dictionaries would suggest it means "old/ancient". Well, it gave me praachiinam...
I just live "significant" names like that. Vasuda meaning "Earth", etc.
I like the "significant" names as well. Though another word meaning "Earth" would be cool as well.
-
Right, but they wouldn't have called the planet Altair, now would've they?
Maybe not, we're humans and we don't call our planet humee.
-
Option 1:
Steal shamelessly from other sci-fi universes. Call them "the Rebel Alliance" or "Klingons."
Option 2:
Channel Tolkien (like every fantasy author since). Just throw some syllables together that sound vaguely mysterious and foreign. "Labethkor" or "Bojamdi" for example.
Option 3:
Go literal. Assuming a perfect translator, they would probably call themselves "humans." Revel in the confusion this causes.
Option 4:
Make saying the name of the race out loud an unbreakable social taboo. The player will never know!
Option 5:
Ridiculous, face-palm puns. "Aleens", "Shicagobers", "Danee Dovido".
EDIT: Oh wait, you wanted good ideas? :D
-
Right, but they wouldn't have called the planet Altair, now would've they?
Maybe not, we're humans and we don't call our planet humee.
More importantly, Altair is an abbreviation of an Arabic word, and the Ancients clearly didn't speak Arabic.
I think "The Race" might be a decent term. Gives a slight sense of Aryanesque racial superiority.
-
Where do we find out that the player in ASW is playing through the eyes of a Vasudan? That would make a lot of sense, I just haven't been able to find that anywhere.
Didn't you watch the opening cutscene? (not the "first mission" one, but the one that comes before pilot selection).
-
Call them Ishmael.
-
"Priscus Sapiens."
They don't really need to refer to the name of their species at all. They can talk about the glory of The Empire and the future of Their Race. Command can be referred to as The Elders and the leaders of the empire could be called The Ancients, and their planet could be referred to as Home.
-
Where do we find out that the player in ASW is playing through the eyes of a Vasudan? That would make a lot of sense, I just haven't been able to find that anywhere.
Didn't you watch the opening cutscene? (not the "first mission" one, but the one that comes before pilot selection).
To be fair, it's really hard to hear what's going on.
-
Call them Ishmael.
I lol'd.
-
They don't really need to refer to the name of their species at all. They can talk about the glory of The Empire and the future of Their Race. Command can be referred to as The Elders and the leaders of the empire could be called The Ancients, and their planet could be referred to as Home.
That is IMO best idea
-
You have to conceptualize Ancient culture first before you can give them an official name. The name you use in the campaign, though, completely depends on who is saying it. The Ancients themselves would probably use their real name, while the Vasudans would probably have something slightly different. The Terrans would just assign a name to them depending on what they observe of them (example is the Shivans, named after Shiva, the Hindu god of destruction).
-
ASW worked it well.
If you want to name them though, refer to Minoan mythology for a few names.
-
Right, but they wouldn't have called the planet Altair, now would've they?
Maybe not, we're humans and we don't call our planet humee.
More importantly, Altair is an abbreviation of an Arabic word, and the Ancients clearly didn't speak Arabic.
I think "The Race" might be a decent term. Gives a slight sense of Aryanesque racial superiority.
ultimately is assumes Altair is the home world, all that is known in cannon is that Altair hosted the Ancients at some point and recoverable technology was found. Bosh found artifacts in Deneb and possibly other systems
-
I think that Ancients should be called "The Great Empire", or something like that.
-
ultimately is assumes Altair is the home world, all that is known in cannon is that Altair hosted the Ancients at some point and recoverable technology was found. Bosh found artifacts in Deneb and possibly other systems
Yeah, there's no canon evidence given that Altair was the Ancients' original homeworld. I think it's more likely that it's one of multiple colony worlds that the Ancients fled to during the final days of their annihilation at the hands of the Shivans.
-
It doesn't even specify in canon if teh ancients are native to our galaxy.
-
I think it's a safe bet that they were. The "gave us the universe" sentiment came only after the Ancients had already expanded out from their homeworld, and after the Shivans started putting the smackdown on them, they retreated back toward their core systems. Since we found their records on Altair, that implies that the Ancient homeworld was somewhere in our neck of the woods.
-
We have no way of knowing just how far they spread before being beaten back. The only thing the ruins on Altair prove is that the Ancients lived on Altair at some point in their existance. Nothing else.
-
ultimately is assumes Altair is the home world, all that is known in cannon is that Altair hosted the Ancients at some point and recoverable technology was found. Bosh found artifacts in Deneb and possibly other systems
Yeah, there's no canon evidence given that Altair was the Ancients' original homeworld. I think it's more likely that it's one of multiple colony worlds that the Ancients fled to during the final days of their annihilation at the hands of the Shivans.
What he said.
I much better like the idea that Altair wasn't the homeworld. There's such a vast galaxy out there that I don't particularly entertain the idea that our sector was so damn crowded.
-
We have no way of knowing just how far they spread before being beaten back. The only thing the ruins on Altair prove is that the Ancients lived on Altair at some point in their existance. Nothing else.
While that is indeed true, the cutscene monologues state that the Ancients retreated all the way back to their original homeworld in the face of the Shivan onslaught against them, and that it was there that the Shivans finally obliterated them. (The ASW team pulled off a nice bit of parallelism with this, if you haven't yet played it.) The final monologue, the one presumably made on Altair, mentions that "there are only a few of us left now," which would suggest it being made after the destruction of the homeworld. All of this seems to strongly suggest that the Ancients on Altair were refugees from the destruction of their homeworld, which would presumably place said homeworld somewhere relatively close by.
Like I said above, I don't see Altair as being the Ancients' original homeworld. But I do think it was in the same general area as what would eventually become GTVA space. It ties in with the idea of the Shivans as "Great Preservers" that allowed Terran and Vasudan civilization to eventually arise (and with the concept of the Vasudans having known of the Ancients in their own distant past), and it fits with the geography of the two known Knossos portals, through which the Shivans presumably came at some point in the past. It may all be speculation on my part, but I think it's supported by a decent amount of evidence from the games.
-
I'll second the Race and Home usage. It worked to great effect for Harry Turtledove's World War series, which also had a species convinced of their supremacy and mastery, and avoids having to think up an actual, feasible-sounding name for them.
-
That is basically what ASW does now; only in the tech description they refer to themselves as "Ancients" IIRC.
And in the ship designations. But "RCa Akrotiri" (Race's carrier") ? Please.
-
my theory is that the ancients came from earth, atlantis was their capitol and the shivans caused the last ice age.
-
It would explain the dinosaurs. . . . But what about the crocodiles?
And the french?
-
Oh no... What again about the French ? :p
-
Don't pass the French off so readily... those Normans aren't to be trifled with! :P
-
They used their special beam absorbing cheese to survive the lucifer :yes:
-
I would have to agree with them calling themselves The Great Ones or The Race; the monologue reveals that they were extremely arrogant and tyrannical in their actions following the discovery allowing them to traverse subspace. I'd assume that the Vasudans don't call themselves Vasudans in their own native tongue, just as they don't call us Humans or call our planet Earth. From my understanding, their Vasuda is their way of saying "Home" or "Land" or "Desert" OR Vasuda is the way we identified their solar system and thus tacked the name "Vasudan" onto their entire race.
Then again, the fact that humans were able to get the ETAK translator working goes to say that the Ancients, while perhaps they never figured out how to communicate, WOULD have the ability to communicate with races they've prior had contact with (ie: Vasudans and possibly Terrans)
Could go either way, really. What's curious to me is why the Ancients never reformed, unless :v: is trying to say that thousands of year before, the Ancients are the "missing link" or are already humans (having taken refuge here and collapsed the jump node to prevent further Shivan or alien interference--a possible reason that we're located so close to the assumed Ancient empire and yet don't have a real memory of the Vasudans or other conquest.
Interesting to extrapolate based off the FS storyline. Remember that the evidence would be here-say--you can't ask someone what they were thinking or doing 8000 years before, and I think it'd be possible for the Ancients to be warring for hundreds or thousands of years and losing system after system to the Shivans. Perhaps losing one system a decade at the start with a defining even being the loss of a core system every hundred years. Assuming that the Ancients had a strong economy and threw enough ships at the Shivans to slow their conquest, they'd be forced into fighting a slow and costly war for survival outlasting many generations. Splinters of their empire could form each time they lost a major system. Assuming that ships like the Lucifer were prevalent and that the Ancients were able to stall the Shivans, I'd guess that the Ancients have at least reasonably powerful weapons capable of damaging a ship like the Lucifer, but perhaps not destroying it. Or perhaps destroying it, and having the Shivans step up their game to create the Sathanas taskforce with the ability to destroy stars instead of planets. It could explain why the Lucifer would appear from a different direction (perhaps having spent hundreds or thousands of years regrowing itself, assuming the ships are organic) and why there was then the entire Sathanas force that came to bear.
-
Just call them "us". And EVERY OTHER RACE "them". Hell, it'll give a sense of confusion, something that is necessary when you're talking about Ancients. Plus, it fits their behaviour well.
-
I was trying to think of an easier solution. The only thing i came up with is that using a minoan word for referring to them sounds like an option. A minoan word for conqueror, devastator or even demon sounds appropriate for a name for their species and their civilization based on how many species they wiped out and how far they're empire reached.
It obviously wouldn't be there true name, but it'd do. The ancients referring to themselves as the ancients is still inane, and for the ancient shivan war that it might not be an excuse, but this is an issue that people keep taking baby steps around. The great ancient empire just doesn't do it, it's too empty of a title for even an empire. For someone referring to an empire it must have a name to go with that empire instead of a noun. The great roman empire, united states of america, chinese communist empire. These are just examples of something other than a noun for referring to an empire; it's better than ancients and the almighty power "race".
Names have meaning and give power, and a noun can enhance it.
-
I think The Race or The Empire of the Race is the best solution.
Any arbitrary word will feel contrived.
We just call ourselves 'mankind.' We've got 'The Empire of Man' and whatnot.
-
If you want examples of names for their home planet:
Y Ddaear
Kalibotan
An Domhan
Yn Chruinney
An Saoghal
Honua
Duniya
Dor
Tlalticpactli
Tiksimuyu
Urd
Names for their species (in singular, you'll likely want to mutilate it into an English-plausible plural form regardless of the correct one):
Insan (Insanes :lol:)
Bod Dynol (Dynoles)
Duine (Duine)
Yan-adam (??)
Olombelona (Olombela or something might work)
Tlacatl (Tlacatl)
Djin (biyolodjeye) (Djinni?)
Eniyan (Eniyans)
Names for their home star:
An/A'/Yn Ghrian
Haul
Kuarahy
La
Howl
Masoandro
Xemx
Tonatiuh
Johonaa'ei
Aldo
Jua
Araw
Shams
If you want something more obscure, research some dead language or another and pick your poison.
-
I think The Race or The Empire of the Race is the best solution.
Any arbitrary word will feel contrived.
We just call ourselves 'mankind.' We've got 'The Empire of Man' and whatnot.
Empire of man :nod: is better sounding than the underwhelming and plain "empire of the race" :o Empire of man; this has for example a more detailed descriptor than the "empire of the race". When referring to an empire, it's better if there's a mention of what the people are called in that empire. The roman empire - these people are called romans, communist chinese republic - these people are called chinese, empire of man - oh these people call themselves man, empire of the race - huh?.
Any arbitrary word perhaps would sound contrived. The only reason i came up with those words in my last post in this thread is because i was reminded of that one episode of voyager where the vod'wa were coming out of stasis and the old word for vod'wa in telaxian was demon.
The ancients were ruthless and menacing in there conquest, having a name fit that would perhaps sound fitting.
-
The Race means the same thing as Man, or The People, or whatever. It means 'us'.
-
The Race means the same thing as Man, or The People, or whatever. It means 'us'.
I personally don't think this is the best solution because it in my opinion of course seems so bland and doesn't seem to have much of a Freespace feell to it. I'd prefer something that goes with a theme more similar, and doesn't just mean "the people" I'd prefer them to have more of a character.
-
Again, making up a name will feel contrived, and using an Earth mythological name makes no sense. There aren't many options left.
-
I am aware, but truly, we could use an Earth name, or simply the ancients from the perspective of terrans
-
The Ancients, going off of ASW, consider lesser species to be inferior, so it is likely they would have some sort of genetic/pure mental complex. Why not then, have something like "The Highborn" or some other title of significance?
-
The Ancients, going off of ASW, consider lesser species to be inferior, so it is likely they would have some sort of genetic/pure mental complex. Why not then, have something like "The Highborn" or some other title of significance?
The only problem I have with that is as far as we know, that is only a part of their history, they most likely had names for themselves already by then
-
Again, making up a name will feel contrived, and using an Earth mythological name makes no sense. There aren't many options left.
It doesn't matter because whatever is come up for a name will sound contrived...to you. We don't have V to make up a name, and of course anything in the light of V is never contrived :lol: Using an earth mythological name of course doesn't need to happen because you're right, that wouldn't make too much sense.
It doesn't matter if race means the same thing as man (which almost does, but not the main shebang). The empire of man i consider to be better than your idea of the empire of the race. Since man is actually a descriptor for our species, while race is too open ended a word that sounds bland and doesn't have much for description past a group of people. I know the race is meant to sound ultimate, but all it puts in my head is "get ready to start your engines", the kkk just going crazy trying to figure out which race The Race is, or something that i couldn't help not be able to fear because it doesn't sound imposing.
-
You don't need to use 'The Empire of the Race'. It's merely an archetype, a suggestion of the kind of name that would work well.
-
We can't call them the Race. Everyone knows the Race is an empire of small, lizard-like aliens who attempted to conquer Earth during WWII and were winning until we nuked their asses.
-
Already mentioned in-thread. :)
-
Yes, but you haven't given up on the idea yet.
-
The first name that came into my mind upon looking at this thread is "Altairians". :nervous:
-
Yes, but you haven't given up on the idea yet.
Because it's a good one.
The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher) used it once doesn't make it his. It's an archetypical and elegant turn of language.
-
If you want examples of names for their home planet:
...
Urd
Names for their species (in singular, you'll likely want to mutilate it into an English-plausible plural form regardless of the correct one):
...
Djin (biyolodjeye) (Djinni?)
Names for their home star:
...
If you want something more obscure, research some dead language or another and pick your poison.
IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that. How do you say "people" in Minoan? How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?
Thar we go, problem solved. All we need to do is import those words into English/Latin, and we have names for stuff. For ships, we could use names of their gods and stuff, which would be canon, and cool I think. Djin I think were present in Minoan/Mycenian mythology I think, but I'm not sure, so that is a good name for something. Urd sound Middle-Eastern/Mediterranean to me, so that might be cool to.
-
You realize that naming scheme is GTVA's assignment to the remains left behind by Ancients (and mainly just derived from the designation of Knossos devices in FreeSpace 2)?
Also that the naming schemes are not very consistent in the first place. Terrans have mixed names from Christo/Judean (Leviathan), Greek (Perseus, Myrmidon, Erinyes etc.), Norse (Loki, Fenris) and Roman (Elysium) mythologies as well as at least one example taken from German legend (Faustus).
Shivans have designations mainly taken from Christo/Judean mythology (Great War designations are full of these - Nephilim, Lucifer, Shaitan, Seraphim, Dragon, Cain, Lilith, Demon, Asmodeus, Azrael), European mythology (Manticore, Basilisk) as well as names from Hindu mythology in FS2 (Ravana, Astaroth, Mara, Rakshasa) and some more Christo/Judean names (Sathanas, Moloch, Dis).
The Vasudan naming scheme is the most consistent, being entirely Egyptian - but then, this has a good explanation in-universe:
Because the Vasudan homeworld was primarily desert, the Terrans used Egyptian names to designate Vasudan warships during the Terran-Vasudan War and the Great War. After the defeat of the Shivans, the Vasudans insisted on maintaining this convention. The Emperor strongly identified with the history of Ancient Egypt, particularly the longevity of its civilization. Following their Emperor's example, Vasudans will take on what they call a Terran name from the myths and history of Ancient Egypt.
This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.
-
Good God, how has this thread escaped my attention? :wtf:
IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that. How do you say "people" in Minoan? How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?
Thar we go, problem solved.
That's what you think... :rolleyes:
We don't know how you say "people" in Minoan. We don't know how you say "Home", or "Sun". We don't know s**t about what the Minoans called things, because the Minoan language is more than a dead language. It is lost.
We 've read Mycenian clay tablets (which aren't more than palace archives), but that's because Myceneans were Greeks, and spoke Greek. They just used another writing system. So, all Ventris (the guy who deciphered their script) had to do (and it wasn't easy) was to match the early Mycenean symbols with greek syllables, and voila! he could read Mycenean.
But Minoans weren't Greeks, although they lived in the island of Crete (which, today, belongs to Greece). They spoke a completely different language: they probably weren't even Indo-European. So we have absolutely no idea how they called things.
It's relatively safe to assume that the great palaces (Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Zakros -pronounced Know-SOS, Phae -STOS, MA-lea and ZA-cross) were called that, because we found those names in Mycenean tablets (in the lines of: "Imports from Knossos: Two spears and two talents of bronze") and because during the antiquity these places retained their name. It's also noteworthy that these names have absolutely no known meaning in Greek, which is a testament to their pre-Greek origin.
What really bugs me (since I'm both Greek and an archaeologist) is the fact that the ASW team used the modern Greek names of pretty much every mycenean, cycladic and minoan archaeological site to name their ships. The minoans most certainly did not call the settlement 'Akrotiri'. That means 'Cape' in modern Greek, and only refers to where the site lies: in a cape, in the island of Santorini. 'Apesokari' means 'Never-corrupted-Grace', and refers to the church of Madonna Apesokari, which was near the site. And so on. And so forth.
I realize that since we have no idea what the Minoans called these sites, the ASW team (and those who had to deal with the Ancients before them) had to do with what they could get. I certainly have nothing better to suggest, if they insist in using Minoan-relative designations.
But this is QFT: :yes:
This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.
EDIT: 200 posts.
-
Good God, how has this thread escaped my attention? :wtf:
IMO, since they have already been given a naming scene, that of the Mycenians/Minoans, we should use that. How do you say "people" in Minoan? How do you say "Home" (for the planet), and how do you say "sun" (for their home star)?
Thar we go, problem solved.
That's what you think... :rolleyes:
But Minoans weren't Greeks, although they lived in the island of Crete (which, today, belongs to Greece). They spoke a completely different language: they probably weren't even Indo-European. So we have absolutely no idea how they called things.
It's relatively safe to assume that the great palaces (Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Zakros -pronounced Know-SOS, Phae -STOS, MA-lea and ZA-cross) were called that, because we found those names in Mycenean tablets (in the lines of: "Imports from Knossos: Two spears and two talents of bronze") and because during the antiquity these places retained their name. It's also noteworthy that these names have absolutely no known meaning in Greek, which is a testament to their pre-Greek origin.
But this is QFT: :yes:
This campaign, however, is about Ancients fighting Shivans, and there's really no basis to use Minoan naming scheme, any more than any other naming scheme. Ship wise you could go with something similar as the Japanese used in WW2 - Navy Type Zero fighter etc. But I do oppose using Minoan names just because terrans designated Knossos device as "Knossos" thousands of years after Ancients had died.
EDIT: 200 posts.
Good job, you caught me being lazy and I said Minoan instead of Mycenian. The naming scheme should be centered around those place names and so forth, and also words in Mycenian we do know. Ancient Phoenician names could be used as well, because the Phoenicians had a presence on Crete for a time if I am not mistaken. Could you verify that?
Herra, if you want to get nitpicky about the Terrans coming up with the naming scheme after the extinction of the ancients, then what is the point, really, of giving the ancients any Earth names? You would be forced to come up with a whole new language, like Klingon. But then that would throw off the players because there would be 2 names for ships and stuff, one in madeupese, and the other in the already pre-determined naming scheme.
This is a conundrum indeed...
-
Just like the newest constellations, use a name scheme based on scientific devices translated to Latin?
-
Herra, if you want to get nitpicky about the Terrans coming up with the naming scheme after the extinction of the ancients, then what is the point, really, of giving the ancients any Earth names? You would be forced to come up with a whole new language, like Klingon. But then that would throw off the players because there would be 2 names for ships and stuff, one in madeupese, and the other in the already pre-determined naming scheme.
That'd be more realistic. If we think about it from an "in-universe" perspective, the fact that the Ancients used Terran names for their own ships makes no sense whatsoever.
-
Actarians maybe? :nervous:
-
Actarians maybe? :nervous:
Noooooo
-
Good job, you caught me being lazy and I said Minoan instead of Mycenian.
Errare humanum est... :P
The naming scheme should be centered around those place names and so forth, and also words in Mycenian we do know.
At least don't use modern Greek names. I suppose it'd be OK to use ancient Cretan site names, like Gortys (GOR-tees), though.
Ancient Phoenician names could be used as well, because the Phoenicians had a presence on Crete for a time if I am not mistaken. Could you verify that?
Well, yes and no. If you mean: did they have a colony there? then no. But the Phoenicians were criss-crossing the Mediterranean throughout the antiquity. A few imported Near-Eastern vases have been found in Crete, but they could have been imported by the Minoans themselves.
About us knowing what the Minoans called themselves: we don't. But we know what the other peoples called them. Perhaps you could use this:
The Egyptians called them Kaftiu (Caff-TIEW). The Hebrews called them Caphtorim (Caff-to-RIM).
I like Caphtorim. :nervous:
-
Call them Kevin.
-
Actarians maybe? :nervous:
Noooooo
Okaaaaaaaay, how about Tellusans
-
The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher)
Eh?
-
The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher)
Eh?
He didn't leave a great impression at the workshop when I worked with him. Very attached to a certain presentation about general literary business, very certain that this was the presentation he wanted to give, and not particularly interested in deviating from it. He might have just been stressed or something. Or crowdshy, though god knows it was a small selective group.
Actarians maybe? :nervous:
Noooooo
Okaaaaaaaay, how about Tellusans
I'm just not a big fan of either the Tolkienesque or pulp SF methods of generating alien names.
-
I'll go with "Lovecraftian" names because I believe it fits the trope, but it's just me. Two in particular would be fine :
Mi-Go
Yithians
-
Herra, if you want to get nitpicky about the Terrans coming up with the naming scheme after the extinction of the ancients, then what is the point, really, of giving the ancients any Earth names? You would be forced to come up with a whole new language, like Klingon. But then that would throw off the players because there would be 2 names for ships and stuff, one in madeupese, and the other in the already pre-determined naming scheme.
This is a conundrum indeed...
Well, Lord of the Rings was translated from Westron to English for the convenience of the readers.
Hobbits & Co. don't really speak English.
Their names aren't the ones used in the books either. Meriadoc Brandybuck's actual name was Kalimac Brandagamba, Peregrin Took's name was Razanur Tûk, and Samvais Gamgee's (or Samwise Gammidgy's) name was Banazir Galbasi.
And the planet is called Endor. In Quenya. Arda in Westron, and Middle-earth in English.
-
And the planet is called Endor.
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/reiler/what.png)
Seriously? I am shocked. Shocked, I tells you! No wait, it appears that Endor has been used in quite a few places.
-
Call them Kevin.
I love you.
-
Yeah I agree Kevin is the best name so far. Fits in with the whole "parallel to humanity" thing they have going.
-
I see you're all still stuck on the "BEEPHKAKES".
-
The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher)
Eh?
He didn't leave a great impression at the workshop when I worked with him. Very attached to a certain presentation about general literary business, very certain that this was the presentation he wanted to give, and not particularly interested in deviating from it. He might have just been stressed or something. Or crowdshy, though god knows it was a small selective group.
You attended a writer's workshop with Harry Turtledove? Cool!
-
The fact that Turtledove (who, for all his fictional merits, is an awful teacher)
Eh?
He didn't leave a great impression at the workshop when I worked with him. Very attached to a certain presentation about general literary business, very certain that this was the presentation he wanted to give, and not particularly interested in deviating from it. He might have just been stressed or something. Or crowdshy, though god knows it was a small selective group.
You attended a writer's workshop with Harry Turtledove? Cool!
Tim Zahn, Theodora Goss, the surprisingly awesome Catherine Asaro, and a few others you probably haven't heard of.
-
Methuselah's, as the oldest known living race, would seem appropriate some how!
-
Methuselah's, as the oldest known living race, would seem appropriate some how!
Well, we could take a stab that the Shivans are possibly older, the Ancient Monologues imply it IMO.
Plus, that's far too Richard K Morgan (Read Altered Carbon)
-
How about the most recent dead race?
-
You're more than welcome to use my naming method: drop something heavy on the keyboard, take the results, and whittle out letters until you have something that sounds good. If that doesn't work, do it again.
-
Amazing method.
hsijjds;jod
hsiids;jod
Hsiid-jods or Hsiid-ios. There's my alien.
-
Seriously? I am shocked. Shocked, I tells you! No wait, it appears that Endor has been used in quite a few places.
No kidding... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor)
-
You're more than welcome to use my naming method: drop something heavy on the keyboard, take the results, and whittle out letters until you have something that sounds good. If that doesn't work, do it again.
Heh, that's pretty much how we came up with Aesdher and the other system names.
-
I have to admit I thought the Aesdherians were a little sloppily named compared to other FreeSpace races (though you'll note BP tips the hat to them anyway ;) ).
It's just too much to believe that an alien race separated from us by this vast gulf of time and psychology would use the '-ians' suffix so common in tired serial SF stories and Trek reruns.
I'm still of the opinion that the best decision is just to have the Ancients call themselves the Race and to have other alien races use the Alastair Reynolds/Iain Banks style of alien naming - give them an evocative name based on an English, foreign, or mythological word rather than something made up. If you're willing to call Gamma Draconis Gamma Draconis, then go the distance!
-
I know this is repeated a thousand times by now, with noone quite getting it: ASW is viewed by a Vasudan, roughly saying. Watch the intro cutscene again.
And I claim the name of Aesdher. It's something I came up while being bored in class... No keyboards :p
-
I know this is repeated a thousand times by now, with noone quite getting it: ASW is viewed by a Vasudan, roughly saying. Watch the intro cutscene again.
And I claim the name of Aesdher. It's something I came up while being bored in class... No keyboards :p
I can tell - it's a pretty generic SF name. I think you guys could have done better with a bit more thought.
And if 'no one is quite getting' that ASW is being viewed by a Vasudan, then why did I cite it in the last post? It's the reason that calling Gamma Draconis Gamma Draconis makes sense.
-
I know this is repeated a thousand times by now, with noone quite getting it: ASW is viewed by a Vasudan, roughly saying. Watch the intro cutscene again.
And I claim the name of Aesdher. It's something I came up while being bored in class... No keyboards :p
I can tell - it's a pretty generic SF name. I think you guys could have done better with a bit more thought.
And if 'no one is quite getting' that ASW is being viewed by a Vasudan, then why did I cite it in the last post? It's the reason that calling Gamma Draconis Gamma Draconis makes sense.
Then if you 'get' it, what's wrong with calling Ancients as Ancients, and what's wrong with the '-ians'?
And how is 'Aesdherians' generic? Just cause of the suffix?
-
Just finished ASW: act 1.
I'm a bit frustrated, I wish Act 2 had already been released :D
Anyway, the Aesdherians are actually the coolest species I've seen in the entire FSverse (except perhaps, by a small gap, the Shivans) so far. Their are literally painted grim black, with those creepy "tentacles" the best addition I've seen for any ship so far. Too bad their beams were nerfed...or is it just the Akrotiri?
Also, their fighters and bombers are outstanding as well. The Aesdherians are definetly fine addition to FS SCP.
Can anyone release an Aesdherian juggernaut :lol:?
-
The Aesdherians were originally the "Nightmares", who were intended to be a race as old and as powerful as the Shivans (and were waging a millenia long war against them).
Originally created by Aldo for his Reciprocity and Lost Souls campaigns, eventually re-purposed by numerous campaign makers...
-
...especially Droid803...
-
Anyway, the Aesdherians are actually the coolest species I've seen in the entire FSverse (except perhaps, by a small gap, the Shivans) so far. Their are literally painted grim black, with those creepy "tentacles" the best addition I've seen for any ship so far. Too bad their beams were nerfed...or is it just the Akrotiri?
Also, their fighters and bombers are outstanding as well. The Aesdherians are definetly fine addition to FS SCP.
Can anyone release an Aesdherian juggernaut :lol:
There's a lot of history you don't know here, Marcov. The tragically named Aesdherians use Aldo's Nightmare models, which he originally built for a campaign called Reciprocity. They've been used in many campaigns; ASW is only the latest.
He eventually stopped making them because he thought they were too generic and terrible-looking, so the odds of getting a Nightmare dreadnought are low.
If you want more of them, just go get some Babylon 5 Shadow ships, which are in a similar design vein.
Then if you 'get' it, what's wrong with calling Ancients as Ancients, and what's wrong with the '-ians'?
And how is 'Aesdherians' generic? Just cause of the suffix?
Because you can do better.
'Aesdherian' contains the Tolkienesque 'Ae' and 'dh' sound clusters and the '50s pulp-SF 'ians' suffix, which is a generic and unimaginative suffix used to indicate 'a species from a planet named (in this case) Aesdher'. The word is meaningless, so it fails to evoke much of anything except possibly associations with 'Aether'.
-
But the Aesdherian name being meaningless was the point.
-
Can anyone release an Aesdherian juggernaut :lol:?
Yes!
Reskin this (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SPD_Vinaashak). It was originally supposed to be a Nightmare juggernaut.
-
But the Aesdherian name being meaningless was the point.
You can get a meaningless name that doesn't sound like it came from TENTACLE MENACE ON JUBULON-9!
Plus it's aesthetically inconsistent. If the Ancients are gonna be Ancients because they think of themselves as Ancient, have them call their hapless victim Abominations or Sullied or some **** like that. I dunno, man, expand yourself.
-
I'm still of the opinion that the best decision is just to have the Ancients call themselves the Race and to have other alien races use the Alastair Reynolds/Iain Banks style of alien naming - give them an evocative name based on an English, foreign, or mythological word rather than something made up.
Well there are a few good made up words out there that mean nothing, such as:
-Kodak
-Dektol
-Ektanar
-Aesdherian
-Tiigran-Merisst :p
And I agree with the Ancients calling themselves the Race. It would fit rather nice with their somewhat racist philosophy.
-
The first four of those are pretty bad, no matter how widely they're used.
I actually don't mind your invention as much, but it's got the 'let's double some letters to make things alien' syndrome.
One of the big problems with these types of made-up names is that they still tend to obey English or English-derived phonetic patterns even though they're supposed to be 'alien'.
-
Just use the name of that Icelandic volcano no one can pronounce. That looks nice and alien. :p
-
Just use the name of that Icelandic volcano no one can pronounce. That looks nice and alien. :p
Islandmountainglacier?
-
Just use the name of that Icelandic volcano no one can pronounce. That looks nice and alien. :p
Islandmountainglacier?
If you've read Peter F Hamiltons Commonwealth Saga, that's actual very similar to what the big bad in that calls himself.
His name, translated to english, means "MorningLightMountain". It makes sense if you read it. The humans just call them the Prime Immotiles.
-
I'm still of the opinion that the best decision is just to have the Ancients call themselves the Race and to have other alien races use the Alastair Reynolds/Iain Banks style of alien naming - give them an evocative name based on an English, foreign, or mythological word rather than something made up.
And I agree with the Ancients calling themselves the Race. It would fit rather nice with their somewhat racist philosophy.
I agree too. The Ancients are an arrogant lot. Perhaps they're so arrogant to the point where they think they don't need a name, simply because they think that their powerful fleet will do all the talking for them.
-
"RD Odigitria"? Race's Destroyer?
-
"RD Odigitria"? Race's Destroyer?
Well since it's being viewed by a Vasudan and all, AD fits fine...
-
"RD Odigitria"? Race's Destroyer?
More like AD
for
AMAZING DESTROYER
Or how about ditch the prefixes and give all the ships name like
Fiery Cleansing Instrument of Our Inherent Superiority
and
Invincible Transport of Our Exalted Cargo Items
-
Haha yeah!
-
can i just say that prefixes like GTD, NTC, GVF are a predominantly Terran/GTVA concept, there is nothing to suggest the vasudans use them at all in FS1 and vasudans using prefixes in FS2 could be as a result of standardizing naming conventions. So under that logic do the ancients need to use them?
-
+1 vote for Battuta's idea :lol:
-
can i just say that prefixes like GTD, NTC, GVF are a predominantly Terran/GTVA concept, there is nothing to suggest the vasudans use them at all in FS1 and vasudans using prefixes in FS2 could be as a result of standardizing naming conventions. So under that logic do the ancients need to use them?
There's also nothing to suggest that the Ancients used traditional size brackets for ships (ie 250 meter cruisers, or 2000 meter destroyers). For all we know their equivalent of cruisers could have been 150 or 400 meters long.
-
"RD Odigitria"? Race's Destroyer?
More like AD
for
AMAZING DESTROYER
Or how about ditch the prefixes and give all the ships name like
Fiery Cleansing Instrument of Our Inherent Superiority
and
Invincible Transport of Our Exalted Cargo Items
Oh man, how I wish this had come up when we were deciding on a naming scheme...
However, I'd imaging people having difficulty taking it seriously :P
-
I actually rather like most of the Ancient ship names, so it's all cool anyway.
-
Well there are a few good made up words out there that mean nothing, such as:
-Kodak
.
I think that Kodak is a derived onomatopoeia of the clicking sound of the camera. After the guy "pronounced" it, he made it catchy, and it worked.
EDIT: Well, Wiki proved me wrong.