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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 04:59:04 pm

Title: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 04:59:04 pm
im doing i best i swear to god, but after trying and failing to do the mission rebels and renegades for the 50th time even my resolve is crumbling. every walkthrough ive found online tells me to do something different, and no matter what i do just.cant.beat.it. if someone has any advice im all ears but jesus. i havent been this frustrated for a long long time.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
Turn down the difficulty?

What are you flying? At what point are you failing?

Cheat?

Besides, it's an SOC loop, optional mission. You can always come back to it.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: headdie on January 11, 2010, 05:03:38 pm
i believe if you fail a mission 3 of 5 times you can skip it.

have you tried adjusting difficulty setting?

also have you looked through this http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Rebels_%26_Renegades ?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 05:10:37 pm
its kind of a stupid matter of pride, but i refuse to turn the diffuclty down below normal. perhaps its all my own fault. anyway i fail because the ****ING asar never dies, and the icini is ripped to shreds, SOMETIMES with the asar with 1 health. some guides say IGNORE the asteroids they do ****, go for the asar. so i do this, the asteroids tear it to peices. others say IGNORE THE ASAR, GO FOR THE ASTEROIDS, so i do that and the asar tears it to peices. in addition to the fighters, bombers, friendly fire, no orderable units. ****. i cant call this a bad game given its one of those all time classics but christ!!
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 05:20:44 pm
What are you flying?

The Iceni should murder the Asar. It's just a cruiser. Is the Iceni firing its beams?

Prioritize enemy bombers if they're nearby. I'd say the asteroids are probably a bigger threat than the Asar.

The mission isn't that hard, so whatever's going wrong is happening on your end. Stick with us, we'll help you through it.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 05:23:59 pm
alright,
im using the Myrmidon, armed with 2 Subachs ,2 Tempests and Rockeyes.
the asar simply doesnt go down. even if i remove its beam gun or whatever. i might add im running the most recent open source version.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 05:27:56 pm
With the MediaVPs?

Ditch the Rockeyes, they suck. Otherwise the loadout's pretty good.

Can you tell what's doing all the damage to the Iceni? Is the Iceni firing its beams at the Asar? Are there hostile bombers (you can target them with the B key)?

I'm gonna guess you should be prioritizing the asteroids.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 11, 2010, 05:29:20 pm
The Iceni should murder the Asar. It's just a cruiser. Is the Iceni firing its beams?

The Asar is the Sobek, and it really is a ***** to deal with in this mission.

Here's how I do the mission usually:

Have two banks of Rockeyes and one of Tempests.  Use your Tempests in limited numbers on the bombers, only after you're broken their shields with the Subachs.  Don't use your Rockeyes on the fighters and bombers.  Save them for the Asar.  When it shows up, get at an angle above the front of the ship and target the anti-capital beams.  One bank for each turret should either completely destroy them or badly damage them enough for you to finish them off.  You can try taking out the AAA first and then just using your Subachs on the turrets, but I can't guarantee the flak won't eat you up doing so.

After that, simply stay clear of the Asar.  Focus on the bombers and the asteroids at this point.  If you got the Sobek's turrets reasonably early, the Iceni should be able to take a few asteroid hits. 
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 05:30:34 pm
yeah will all the media vps. thats the only mod im using thus far.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 05:31:50 pm
Oh, okay, if the Asar's the Sobek, that's a bit tougher.

Nail the two forward beams and then ignore it. Don't tell your wingmen to ignore it, though. You can use the 'V' key to target turrets under your reticle - should help.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 05:59:48 pm
thats it. im done. this game is going off my hardrive and the flightstick back in the garage. i thank you all for trying to help me out, but it simply cant be done, and i refuse to play a game that pulls **** like this. im sure its a wonderful game, but its obviously not for me. ive never been this frustrated in my life. again thank you all but thats it.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 06:03:29 pm
What? Come on, we haven't even figured out if your mission is working properly. Something could be broken.

Turn off the MediaVPs and see if it plays any different.

It obviously simply can be done. At the very least, just hit 'exit loop' and keep going on the campaign; it's only an optional mission.

We've got plenty of non-expert players here who have beaten that mission. Just give it a rest and come back to it later if you don't want to exit the loop. There's no reason to give up on the whole game on account of one mission.

The game isn't pulling any ****. The mission works fine for most of us. If there's something broken with your mission, let us help figure it out.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 06:05:33 pm
heh the uninstall has already finished, but to satisfy my curiousity do the mediavps have a history of...err...well...breaking the game?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 06:06:36 pm
No. For god's sake, don't be an idiot. There are hundreds of user-made campaigns you could be playing even if one mission in the main campaign frustrated you. You can skip the mission, it's optional.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 06:19:03 pm
Okay, just played the mission using the latest nightly build, 3.6.10 MediaVPs with patch.

The Iceni blew the Asar away with about 60% hull integrity left. The mission appears to work fine on Medium difficulty.

Could you reinstall the game and follow the steps in the troubleshooting forum to generate a debug log? Then we can help figure out if there's a problem.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on January 11, 2010, 06:31:18 pm
ha well upon your advice i re-installed and tried to play it straight with no open, thus no media vps, thus no unforseen problems...and now it doesnt read my joystick. all i can do is laugh. a break of at least a week is required here, least i kill something
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 06:33:58 pm
You weren't required to drop FSOpen, just deselect the MediaVPs in the launcher.

The debug log, if possible? Instructions are here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56279.msg1180359#msg1180359).

Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 11, 2010, 06:37:20 pm
Stick with it man.
You'll experience something that will change your life forever. . . . The eponymous 'dive' speech.
 
 
My advice is play the one mission on easy. Then ramp it back up to normal afterwards. . . . I even followed the directions. :snipe:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 11, 2010, 06:38:21 pm
Yeah. Or, seriously, just skip it. It's an SOC loop mission. They're optional.

Come back to it later when your skills have improved.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Mongoose on January 11, 2010, 09:47:35 pm
(Note to self: If dayle does decide to stick with the game, keep him far away from Procyon Insurgency. :p)

I do seem to remember this mission being somewhat of a pain in the ass on occasion, at least on Easy, though I don't know if the Asar was ever the main factor.  I feel like the asteroids wound up giving me some significant trouble, particularly on the Hinton.  What I do know, however, is that its most major hair-pulling moments were generated by the glitch mentioned in the Wiki article, which I think (or at least hope) has been fixed in the MediaVPs:

Quote
Unfortunately, both the Iceni and the Hinton try to jump out at the same spot. And both ships have the same speed. This may result in a long series of collisions at the node before they jump out. Roughly 50% of the time, the Iceni batters the Hinton to death at the node regardless of your efforts.

(Dear lord, did that piss me off...)

In any case, dayle, we've all collectively played through this mission enough times to assure you that, under normal circumstances, it is in fact winnable, albeit maybe a bit challenging.  It does sound like something may have gone wrong on your end, as the Sobek shouldn't be posing that large of a threat.  I hope you'll consider sticking around and giving the game a second chance, even if it means you have to skip the mission for now; it's definitely a worthwhile experience. :)
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Dilmah G on January 11, 2010, 09:52:24 pm
Yeah, mate, it's just a game. Skip the mission, take a deep breath, have a wank, drink some beer, whatever helps you de-stress. And play it again.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TrashMan on January 12, 2010, 01:22:33 am
It's just an optional mission.

Skip it, cheat, lower the difficulty or use "fixed" tables.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 12, 2010, 03:14:04 am
Yeah, and the mission has a pretty crappy design. I'm not sure where I read it (might have been the Wiki), but people have failed the mission when they went after the asteroids and the Sobek and took out at least 75% of the enemy fighters/bombers, and sometimes people have succeeded by not doing ****.

Luck has a lot to do with this mission, and seriously, this is one of those times when it might be good to throw all the manliness away and just skip the mission or lower the difficulty.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 12, 2010, 06:20:52 am
(Note to self: If dayle does decide to stick with the game, keep him far away from Procyon Insurgency. :p)
Or which one was it, Crossing The Styx or Aeos Affair which you only flew a Ulysses and spent 12 minutes each mission solo dogfighting endless waves of Shivans.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Dilmah G on January 12, 2010, 07:22:08 am
CtS was the one with the Uly wasn't it?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 12, 2010, 07:24:09 am
Either way I quit playing it after doing the same thing for the fifth mission in a row. :P
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 12, 2010, 09:05:06 am
(Note to self: If dayle does decide to stick with the game, keep him far away from Procyon Insurgency. :p)

Not just PI, he has to refrain from every single mod we think is good. Except maybe Derelict and Warzone.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Sushi on January 12, 2010, 09:19:09 am
It's funny how different missions block different people. I never had any problems with this one, but Slaying Ravana always takes me forever, and the OP apparently managed to get past that one just fine. The next SOC mission, though, I've always found pretty obnoxiously tough.

But yeah, everyone gets hung up on a mission sometime. :) All part of the game!
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 12, 2010, 09:22:04 am
I understand what you mean. A lot of people here say that they see the Phoenicia go boom, but I've never ever seen that happen on my watch. It always manages to jump out on my end.

And then there's Into the Lions' Den, where a lot of people were rammed by Sathanas 03. I'm not one of them. :p

The only difficult thing about R & R is protecting the Hinton, which is absolute Hell. Roughly 50% of the time, I fail to do so.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 12, 2010, 09:45:32 am
(Note to self: If dayle does decide to stick with the game, keep him far away from Procyon Insurgency. :p)

Not just PI, he has to refrain from every single mod we think is good. Except maybe Derelict and Warzone.
Derelict had a mission here and there that occasionally made my blood boil.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on January 12, 2010, 01:37:15 pm
I just keep attacking the asteroids, and maybe some bombers if they happen to be nearby, and I pass the mission most of the time at the first attempt on Medium.

Of course I passed that mission on Very Easy the first time around when I was a noob. :) I don't think playing a game on the easiest difficulty is something to be ashamed of. No one asks about it, and even if he asked about it, he just wouldn't care.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on January 12, 2010, 03:07:31 pm
Like Rome, all roads lead to Freespace 2 :p

If he was here, then he'll be back..... but only if he's not already back.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 12, 2010, 03:09:00 pm
lol the post before yours is gone now. :lol:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Dragon on January 12, 2010, 04:19:25 pm
I think that you should try FSPort, Dayle.
It will allow you to know FS2 background, not to mention FS1 main campaign is a bit easier. (and IMHO has better storyline than FS2).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Lucika on January 12, 2010, 04:21:14 pm
FS1 main campaign is a bit easier. (and IMHO has better storyline than FS2).

I love you so much right now :D
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: IronForge on January 13, 2010, 08:32:20 am
Man I really dislike ragequitters. Come on you're QQing because of ONE broken mission? And you would rather delete the whole damn game than lower the difficulty?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Dilmah G on January 13, 2010, 08:36:12 am
Now, now, let's not tear into him, this game benefits from every fan, even if some uphold their pride in different ways to others. I disapprove of his response to stress as well, but we gave the man some help. :)


Plus, Lucika got pwned for posting something similar
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Vip on January 13, 2010, 08:40:47 am
Actually, I was playing that mission just recently, on Medium, and it took me several dozen times to even complete it, nevermind saving the Hinton. Either the Sobek destroyed the Iceni or the huge-ass number of asteroids mauled it to death. And that's coming from a person who has been playing FS2 for the past 5 years.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Snail on January 13, 2010, 08:41:31 am
lol
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on January 13, 2010, 09:25:44 am
I recently replayed the main campaign, and I completed it fairly simply on Medium.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 13, 2010, 09:40:21 am
As did I, my latest playthrough played on Medium held significantly better results than my previous playthroughs on Very Easy (I skipped Easy).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 13, 2010, 09:43:57 am
I confirm this mission is one of the harder ones in the whole campaign. However I never thought of Rockeye swarms for disarming the beam guns in this mission. It's probably the best way to go with it.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 13, 2010, 10:51:01 am
I usually unload a lot of Subach and Tempest fire into the Asar's Weapons subsystem. Works fine for me.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on January 13, 2010, 11:33:22 am
Won't affect its beams, though.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Droid803 on January 13, 2010, 04:33:26 pm
There's no way this mission is as hard as A Game of TAG.
I always recall the Iceni gutting both the Mentu and the Sobek like they were nothing, and all I had to do was kill the bombers. I even got the Hinton out of my first run through.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Vip on January 13, 2010, 05:57:45 pm
As long as you take care of the bombers, the capships aren't that big of a problem... but the freaking asteroids are a pain in the neck.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: IceFire on January 13, 2010, 06:47:22 pm
I used to write guides on how to beat missions but this isn't one that really came up that often as something I should write on.  It is a bit of a juggling act between the asteroids and the Vasudans and the difficulty ramps up quickly... but it's pretty much just a blast fest.

Key points are to eliminate Vasudan bombers (ignore the fighters except to kill an annoying one).  Knock out the heavy beam turrets on the Sobek that shows up.  Shoot at asteroids whenever you can.  Utilize your wingmen.  Tell them to focus on the beam turret subsystem and take it out quickly... then tell them to destroy bombers again.  Sometimes breaking them lose and telling them to attack all is better than guarding a target too.

I hope someone benefits from this... the mission is not impossible but it is a good tactical exercise in my mind because it forces you to multitask.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: IronForge on January 13, 2010, 08:26:52 pm
Honestly I don't see what is so hard about this mission, I don't even remember it, and I remember those missions which threw lots of crap at me. This is a simple escort mission with a sobek thrown in. Whats so difficult about a sobek? Or maybe I was just lucky...
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 13, 2010, 08:30:12 pm
Play it on Insane.

Trust me, you'll remember it.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 13, 2010, 08:34:58 pm
Honestly I don't see what is so hard about this mission, I don't even remember it, and I remember those missions which threw lots of crap at me. This is a simple escort mission with a sobek thrown in. Whats so difficult about a sobek? Or maybe I was just lucky...

Flying around its aft which has the majority of its anti-fighter coverage.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on January 13, 2010, 09:21:40 pm
Wow, my account's still here after all this time.

(Speaking mostly from Hard mode, FTR:)

This mission(and on the flip side, 'The Sicilian Defense'; just shoot out the Vindicator's three port beams quickly, and watch the Hyksos pretty much finish the the mission by itself) is the reason I hate Sobeks that aren't on my side.

For me, it seems to depend on where the Asar jumps in relative to the Iceni. If the Asar ends up falling in behind the Iceni, it will nibble the Iceni to death if you don't intervene(and enjoy being a flak and AA beam pincushion if you do anything other than mass-spam Rockeyes at the cap beams from out of range). If it ends up to the front and/or above the Iceni, the Asar should die to the Iceni's beams just as the FSWiki walkthrough says. Rarely does the latter happen, though, at least, IME(I don't recall this mission being such a problem back when I used to play on Easy, but it was a while ago).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 14, 2010, 02:15:28 am
What's the range on Rockeyes?
 
Has OP given up?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on January 14, 2010, 05:23:14 am
1,900 meters?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 14, 2010, 11:01:22 am
Utilize your wingmen.  Tell them to focus on the beam turret subsystem and take it out quickly... then tell them to destroy bombers again.
One of the main difficulties in this mission is that you CAN'T order your wingmen in this mission. Which makes them even more useless than they already are.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on January 14, 2010, 03:45:08 pm
Well, there's always cheats, of course. Sobeks don't like it when a Herc suddenly starts waving around a pair of BFReds or MjolnirBeams. :P (Not that I don't recommend trying to finish missions straight, but when it's not really 'your fault' that things aren't coming together...)

Checking again, one of two main things usually happens:
The Asar pulls in right alongside the Iceni(slightly ahead), and does its best to give the Iceni a constant broadside with one of its VSlashes and as many of its AA beams as it can(including at least one of the rear AAs). In this state, it'll pretty much ignore you escorting the Iceni as long as you don't make too much of an obvious nuisance of yourself. On still rarer occasions, when it jumps into this position, it will snap off a quick VSlash at the Hinton and massacre it.

The Asar still appears to the side, but over or under the Iceni and loops around, eventually ending up behind. Obviously, if it's below, it's free to unleash everything on the hapless Iceni, which might get to fire off one or two BGreen shots at the beginning. In this state, its quite happy to skewer you with AA beams and flak if you try to attack it from within 1500m. I've only seen it go over the Iceni once that I recall, but I seem to remember finishing the mission that time.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on January 16, 2010, 02:57:13 am
thread makes me want to rant ... :<
only thing you have to do in this mission is knock out 2 beams and kill a few bombers.
Blow up some asteroids at the end if you're feeling generous, you can spend most of the rest of the time on x8 compression >.>
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Mongoose on January 16, 2010, 03:22:46 am
thread makes me want to rant ... :<
only thing you have to do in this mission is knock out 2 beams and kill a few bombers.
Blow up some asteroids at the end if you're feeling generous, you can spend most of the rest of the time on x8 compression >.>
Meaning no disrespect, but I'm not entirely sure that a player at your high skill level is entirely qualified to comment on the validity of the difficulty that a first-timer is having with the game. :p Hell, I don't think I ever attempted taking out the Sobek's beams myself.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on January 16, 2010, 04:19:13 am
If he was stuck on some missions like slaying the ravana, I'd understand though, but quitting the game because of this mission and his own refusal to reduce the difficulty seems a tad odd >.>;

It'd be nice if I could see him play it through, since I consider at least up to hard - this game completable by basically anyone with a little guidance.
Imma go try that mission on insane with Fury's special AI(*Read; He gave me a version with all the AI .tbl values on their highest possible settings) :<
Might make me think of some tactical ways to beat the mission, rather than snoozing it >.>
Realistically though I expect it'll just boil down to more of the same, rock spam the corvie and blow up some bombers :<
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 16, 2010, 07:59:55 am
Well, you should know better, having tested Fury's AI on Insane.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: headdie on January 16, 2010, 08:36:49 am
If he was stuck on some missions like slaying the ravana, I'd understand though, but quitting the game because of this mission and his own refusal to reduce the difficulty seems a tad odd >.>;

so what do you say to me who don't usually replay a campaign because I only play for the story.

to be honest i can understand why some ppl dont drop the difficulty and in this case i believe that doing so is an admission of defeat and would rather leave it and come back later than drop the difficulty
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 16, 2010, 09:47:03 am
I tend to do that too. Try again later rather than dropping the difficulty. Unless the mission is clearly unbalanced, which shouldn't be the case of retail missions.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on January 16, 2010, 12:06:23 pm
It really depends, honestly. The AI behavior on both sides can seem to vary greatly from one attempt to another, and without any authority to tell them to do what they 'should' be doing(in this case), things can go no-win pretty quickly.

Slaying Ravana's obnoxious(seriously, shoot-through hulls pretty much everywhere?!) until A. you identify and remove that one offending AA beam from the underside spine of the Ravana, and B. park yourself up front near the 'mouth' of the beast and unload your bombs on the Navigational subsystem. Oh, and Ursa/Kayser turret, with Akheton SDGs in the first slot for quick turret busting.

If you could give your wingmen fighters to cover you(instead of almost inevitably being slaughtered themselves, in bombers), it'd be almost mindlessly simple(even on Hard; heck, probably even on Insane), once you realize the front of the destroyer is virtually undefended.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on January 16, 2010, 12:35:32 pm
If he was stuck on some missions like slaying the ravana, I'd understand though, but quitting the game because of this mission and his own refusal to reduce the difficulty seems a tad odd >.>;

so what do you say to me who don't usually replay a campaign because I only play for the story.

to be honest i can understand why some ppl dont drop the difficulty and in this case i believe that doing so is an admission of defeat and would rather leave it and come back later than drop the difficulty
I don't have a problem with people playing it on difficulties where they don't have to pay attention to enjoy the storyline a bit more.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 16, 2010, 01:26:42 pm
Sounds like me, but I stick to Very Easy because I'm a wimp. :D
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: dayle on April 27, 2010, 03:47:17 pm
well as rodo predicted, im back dammit. several months was what it took for me to calm down, but im back. im gonna take dragons advice and play through FSPORT first, figure itll train me up and itll mean ill have some clue whats happening in the storyline.

thanks for all who tried to help me, even if your efforts were in vain.

 i have no idea what the hell was going on before but heres hoping that one day, far in the future, i beat that damn mission, and when that day comes i will paint myself with honey and roll around in breadcrumbs, and post a video of it for you all to see.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on April 27, 2010, 04:09:25 pm
Will you take our advice and play on a lower difficulty level?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Spoon on April 27, 2010, 04:52:22 pm
Quote
i have no idea what the hell was going on before but heres hoping that one day, far in the future, i beat that damn mission, and when that day comes i will paint myself with honey and roll around in breadcrumbs, and post a video of it for you all to see.
  :lol:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on April 27, 2010, 05:40:37 pm
Welcome back to Rome mate.

Hope you can beat that damn mission this time :yes:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on April 27, 2010, 05:43:23 pm
Good luck. And seriously, turn the difficulty down. It was years before I went up to Medium.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on April 27, 2010, 06:59:10 pm
Hell, if he's still having trouble after this attempt I'll hook him up with a multi session to sort him out -.-
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Vrets on April 27, 2010, 07:46:25 pm
This may be chance, but I find this mission to be easier on hard, rather than medium, difficulty. On hard, the Iceni's beam cannons apparently do more damage and are more likely to eliminate the vasudan corvette before it evades the Iceni's firing arc. On medium, the corvette takes heavy damage or is even disabled, but beams the Iceni in the back as the Iceni slowboats to the node. Attempting to debeam that corvette usually gets me killed or leaves the Hinton and Iceni vulnerable to die in some other way.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: IronBeer on April 27, 2010, 10:24:32 pm
Hey, I've never really tried to get above Medium personally. FSPort is really the best starting point- the missions are built to have less going on, and weapons start out fairly weak. Good to see you back, though, and good luck!  :yes:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on April 27, 2010, 10:48:21 pm
NO WAY FSport is easy, remember you are supposed to have unshielded fighters on the first missions.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on April 28, 2010, 03:03:10 am
NO WAY FSport is easy, remember you are supposed to have unshielded fighters on the first missions.
Back in my day..... men were men, mice were mice, and a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick was a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.
!
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Mongoose on April 28, 2010, 03:22:42 am
Word.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 28, 2010, 07:53:48 am
Good luck. And seriously, turn the difficulty down. It was years before I went up to Medium.

I haven't even touched Medium difficulty yet. :p
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on April 28, 2010, 12:14:49 pm
I know what's a slice lemon wrapped around a brick of gold, I just said that FSport is not easier than FS2, just because you don't have beams and flak guns tracking you doesn't mean the campaign will be easier.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on April 28, 2010, 12:16:25 pm
It may not be easier, but it's much simpler. You don't have to worry about AAAs and flaks and being accidentally killed by a stray beam.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on April 28, 2010, 12:49:09 pm
I know what's a slice lemon wrapped around a brick of gold, I just said that FSport is not easier than FS2, just because you don't have beams and flak guns tracking you doesn't mean the campaign will be easier.
The actual quote I was making a not-so-obvious pun off was;
"`In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Aplha Centauri.'"

I was agreeing with you :p
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: SypheDMar on April 28, 2010, 09:14:17 pm
I don't know. Despite not having shields, the enemies were much weaker. Disabling and disarming wasn't at all difficult, either. The only real threat were the Shivans at the beginning, and even they weren't that threatening because most of the time, they weren't chasing you.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on April 28, 2010, 10:30:25 pm
there ARE a couple oddity motherf*** missions in FSPort that are difficult due to the missile handling.  One of them is the 3 freighters carrying the shield prototypes, and the other one involved escape pods if i'm not mistaken.  basilisks jump in and immediately dump a f**kload of missiles at your objectives before you have any sort of opportunity to kill them.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Kopachris on April 28, 2010, 10:41:15 pm
there ARE a couple oddity motherf*** missions in FSPort that are difficult due to the missile handling.  One of them is the 3 freighters carrying the shield prototypes, and the other one involved escape pods if i'm not mistaken.  basilisks jump in and immediately dump a f**kload of missiles at your objectives before you have any sort of opportunity to kill them.
A Failure to Communicate: Dragons and AWOL message of doom made me replay that one a dozen times when I was younger.
NO WAY FSport is easy, remember you are supposed to have unshielded fighters on the first missions.
Back in my day..... men were men, mice were mice, and a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick was a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.
!
:lol:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on April 29, 2010, 03:08:23 am
there ARE a couple oddity motherf*** missions in FSPort that are difficult due to the missile handling.  One of them is the 3 freighters carrying the shield prototypes, and the other one involved escape pods if i'm not mistaken.  basilisks jump in and immediately dump a f**kload of missiles at your objectives before you have any sort of opportunity to kill them.
The shield prototype mission IS harder in Port than FS1, the best you can hope to do is put the missiles off and make sure you're over the jump points.
Failure to communicate isn't too bad so long as you handle the dragons immediately (I normally tell the AI to ignore the dragons and protect the escape pod that's at the front of the little convoy, so that I can knock them out immediately with Phoenix V (they're a lot easier to hit from directly infront or directly behind at the very start of the mission because they don't try to avoid the PVs very often, and the PVs oneshot them).
When the Basilisks jump in, if you dispatched the dragons fast enough you should be back with the pods already, - hit shift-e and then 3, and go hell for leather on the basilisks, then tell the ai to fly with the first escape pod again, and repeat twice.
You should get the bonus objective for that.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on April 29, 2010, 08:48:42 pm
The soc loop. I just recommend doing it, the mission right after escorting the iceni is what i find to be a bastard. I play the iceni mission on medium. I pay attention to the defense of the iceni, which is asteroids, and more importantly fighters and bombers. I ignore the sobek. There's other flight assets out there to take care of it, just blow up fighters/bombers and asteroids.

MISSION IN A NUTSHELL
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 30, 2010, 04:05:07 am
I ignore the sobek.

That's brave. I usually fly below it and destroy its weapons subsystem first, before ignoring it completely.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on April 30, 2010, 08:25:27 am
Why not the beams?
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 30, 2010, 09:12:17 am
Too risky and arguably more time-consuming than whooping a Sobek from the bottom, which is so lightly defended it's not even funny.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on April 30, 2010, 09:51:05 am
Too risky and arguably more time-consuming than whooping a Sobek from the bottom, which is so lightly defended it's not even funny.

Yeah but the weapons subsystem doesn't affect the beams at all.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on April 30, 2010, 10:06:34 am
Yeah but the weapons subsystem doesn't affect the beams at all.

what? wasn't it supposed to affect the accuracy of the AAA beams.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: General Battuta on April 30, 2010, 10:36:58 am
Yeah but the weapons subsystem doesn't affect the beams at all.

what? wasn't it supposed to affect the accuracy of the AAA beams.

I think beams and flak are totally unaffected, but the blob turrets become really inaccurate.

Need to check.

It almost definitely doesn't affect heavy beams.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on April 30, 2010, 02:22:40 pm
It affects flaks, but not beams.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 01, 2010, 02:06:05 am
Yeah, i usually ignore the sobek. Taking care of the fighters, bombers, and the asteroids seems to give the iceni great heads up for taking on the sobek.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on May 01, 2010, 12:22:47 pm
I haven't done it in a while, but the mission just seems/seemed highly variable. The Sobek can end up taking a few different "paths" and that seems to determine whether the Sobek is a threat or an oversized target for the Iceni(and, occasionally, a direct threat to the Hinton).

I'm not sure, but I think one of the later MediaVP revisions of the mission(posted some time back) replaced one of the Sobek's front beams with a standard blob turret.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Droid803 on May 01, 2010, 12:25:49 pm
You can ignore protecting the Hinton if you think the mission is too difficult.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 01, 2010, 02:12:49 pm
i don't think i've ever saved the hinton.  the only time they both survived, something weird happened at the end and it and the iceni had a demolition derby at the node.  guess who won that.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Droid803 on May 01, 2010, 02:14:12 pm
Really? I've saved the hinton several times and they've never collided (well, once they did but the hinton just got bumped away but survived).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 01, 2010, 02:34:41 pm
i think individual computers actually have a game-changing effect on FS2, at least retail.  the first time i played through was on an older computer, something like a PIII 1000 mhz.  i distinctly remember the rescue snipes mission had FAR less EMP bursts.  it was maybe one every two minutes.  when i played on a new computer ~2000 mhz (and now), there's more EMP burst than normal flight.  next to none of the dialouge is intelligible and following the nav points is an everliving pain in the ass.  other things seem to have changed too, like more asteriods in those missions, and maybe some cap ship battles. 
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 01, 2010, 08:29:46 pm
Warped memory? Reminds me of the people who are very convinced that the steps for each dance dance revolution song change each time you play which is not true.

Perhaps it's more of the fact that fso is in use with possibly modified missions sounds likely. In other words, individual computers do not have a game changing affect. You are playing fso which has modified missions, graphics, and settings.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on May 01, 2010, 09:07:50 pm
With the original 3610MVP missions, I've definitely seen the Asar go over the Iceni(dead Sobek), under the Iceni(dead Iceni), and slightly ahead, but alongside the Iceni(out of the Iceni's beam arcs, but capable of pointing one VSlash and at least one of the rear AA beams at it; it will also occasionally take a VSlash at the Hinton in this case, obliterating it in one shot).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on May 01, 2010, 10:01:28 pm
I don't think the Hinton should be beamed. If it is, then something is probably wrong.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Rodo on May 01, 2010, 11:01:00 pm
I don't think the Hinton should be beamed. If it is, then something is probably wrong.

It's not wrong, I recall seeing the Hinton being beamed to death by the Corvette a number of times.

Also: **** happens.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 02, 2010, 01:30:28 am
Warped memory? Reminds me of the people who are very convinced that the steps for each dance dance revolution song change each time you play which is not true.

Perhaps it's more of the fact that fso is in use with possibly modified missions sounds likely. In other words, individual computers do not have a game changing affect. You are playing fso which has modified missions, graphics, and settings.

this was pre-FSO.  the asteroids and whatnot may be mis-memory, but the EMP nebula definitely is not.  there was an absurd increase in EMP activity in the snipes mission after getting a new computer.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on May 02, 2010, 01:33:59 am
It's not wrong, I recall seeing the Hinton being beamed to death by the Corvette a number of times.

Funny, I've never seen it beamed before.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 02, 2010, 03:28:04 am
Happens regularly when I play it. >.>
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 02, 2010, 07:04:56 am
I guess dayle could try getting awesome at the game instead of dropping it in the event of single unbeatable mission. But, since he's starting out on fsport right now, just wait until he gets to that mission where you need to escort those two freighters past the anvil. Now talk about a mission that's actually hard.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TopAce on May 02, 2010, 11:31:31 am
The problem of that mission is not that it's hard to beat - it isn't. The problem is that it's hard to complete perfectly to earn the medal.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Commander Zane on May 02, 2010, 11:42:27 am
I don't have much trouble protecting the whole convoy.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 02, 2010, 11:51:44 am
Wait, what's hard about black omega?

Kill bombers while sending all ai at anvil, if you notice any red dots near the two out on their own tell (gamma? whichever was in the fast interceptors) to go slaughter it.
Move over to the anvil after the bombers are down (there are only two, it's not hard in a herc even on insane with fury's ai..), and suppress the fighters while /everyone/ else finishes the ship (or the other way around if you are points hungry).
So long as you shoot the turrets out at the front of the anvil, or disable it at the start (*AI orders), it's lulzy.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Droid803 on May 02, 2010, 01:08:01 pm
When I played I just bumrushed the Anvil and killed it with my Harbingers before the convoy even got close.

Then again, i was playing on easy.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 02, 2010, 03:09:12 pm
My 'tactics' are the FS1 Multiplayer version((harder)) tactics.. they're designed for insane :<
player 2 takes an ursa with harbys, player 3+ plays anti-fighter @ the anvil.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 02, 2010, 06:05:23 pm
The anvil does an exceptional job at protecting itself on this mission. And if let up on the fighters, they will **** up me and my wings. My priority goes to the fighters, protecting the convoy, and telling the bombers to take out the weapons subsystem and then the engine subsystem if there's enough time.

Usually the anvil warps out before i have a chance to destroy it. But, what a fun difficult mission it is. I always find myself replaying that one a lot trying to fulfill all of the objectives. I forget what i fly on it, whatever was more nimble than a bomber but beefier than an interceptor.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Mongoose on May 02, 2010, 08:43:04 pm
At least when playing on Easy, I think I usually wound up bombing the Anvil's engine subsystem first myself, just to make sure it'd stick around.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on May 02, 2010, 09:06:53 pm
I put me in an Ursa(full Harbingers, Disruptor, Avenger), the rest of Alpha gets more Ulysses and Hercs. I personally escort Omega 1, along with the rest of Alpha, until the Osiri are dead. Approach Anvil, attack any fighters that go after me. Double Harbingers to Anvil's Weapons, then Engines. Use Disruptors to kill missile turrets, so I can reload in peace(also, once fighters are gone, order everyone to disarm/attack the Anvil).

Occasionally, you'll have some bad luck, but I can usually keep both transports in pretty good shape this way.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 02, 2010, 10:42:18 pm
(also, once fighters are gone, order everyone to disarm/attack the Anvil).
You might want to instead, tell everyone to ignore the Anvil.  If the hull strength gets down, you may run the risk of your wingmen dishing out more damage to it and getting the kill instead of you.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 03, 2010, 02:20:35 am
Pretty much, i'm prioritizing in this mission. My main thinking is to make the transport convoy reach the node in tact. That's the main thing. **** destroying the anvil, it's a non priority for me. I'll just take out the weapons subsystem and keep the anvil busy with all of it's fighters and bombers. Otherwise the anvil itself is a great threat to those transports. Those transports do pass very closely to the anvil to get swat down by it's turrets.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 03, 2010, 04:07:41 am
which to me, is retarded.  if i were flying a transport, i'd be giving a ****ing DESTROYER a wiiiiiiiiiddddddeeeeeee berth.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 03, 2010, 05:28:45 am
Funnily enough I'm currently in the process of uploading a Port-Playthrough on Medium (medal run with no replays .. unless I die, or do terribad... though on medium...)
...I think I missed a medal in the escort the Galatea through the asteroid field mission at the start though.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Timerlane on May 03, 2010, 02:13:08 pm
(also, once fighters are gone, order everyone to disarm/attack the Anvil).
You might want to instead, tell everyone to ignore the Anvil.  If the hull strength gets down, you may run the risk of your wingmen dishing out more damage to it and getting the kill instead of you.
They keep the already weakened turrets busy; killing the weapons subsystem helps, but it's still quite possible for a weapons-disabled warship to hit a slow fighter-size target on higher difficulty levels(not necessarily reliably, but enough of a margin of error that a transport has some reason to be concerned).
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 03, 2010, 06:36:10 pm
Since, even on insane, a herc can basically kill one of those turrets in ~4 seconds, why care about the huge hitpoint weapons subsy? just strip the 5 or 6 dangerous turrets.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 03, 2010, 10:38:42 pm
if you take an ursa, the weps system is quick and easy to take down.  but then you have fighter issues. 
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: TrashMan on May 04, 2010, 03:23:05 am
I play that in an Athena. Take down fighters and cripple the anvil, then let the others take it down.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 09, 2010, 05:36:12 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDd8ylwttgk

Check out how easy this is.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on May 10, 2010, 12:25:01 am
A no-missile run? Impressive.

By the way, QD, you should try using the Laser <-> Shield function sometime. You've got a lot of excess gun energy.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Droid803 on May 10, 2010, 12:51:36 am
Makes more sense to dump it into speed if you aren't taking that many hits.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Det. Bullock on May 10, 2010, 04:13:15 am
I have a problem with the mission with the stealth fighter test in Freespace 2 (Sorry, but I always forget the name).
I'm trying to achieve all the mission secondary objectives  but I cannot figure out how to destroy the Shivan Cruiser.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 10, 2010, 04:16:53 am
You can do it with some unlikely missile I forgot the name of, or just stop the Acquitaine from being debeamed and stay close enough to it that the beams rip it to bits (you provide targeting support for the beams).

If you're still having trouble after this, try a higher (yes, higher) difficulty.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Det. Bullock on May 10, 2010, 04:23:41 am
You can do it with some unlikely missile I forgot the name of, or just stop the Acquitaine from being debeamed and stay close enough to it that the beams rip it to bits (you provide targeting support for the beams).

If you're still having trouble after this, try a higher (yes, higher) difficulty.
Do you mean that the shivan fighters are targeting the Aquitaine beams, so I have to destroy them too before turning to the Tiamat?
Anyway I even tried to use the EMP missile to disrupt the Shivan Cruiser and take out its beam turrets but the Aquitaine always jumped out before destoying the cruiser.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: QuantumDelta on May 10, 2010, 04:36:10 am
I think it might have been EMP (rather a lot of them after 10% can kill it), but yea - the (maras?) debeam the acquitaine, but similarly the corvette will too if it strikes the right place with it's beam so you have to dispatch them ASAP.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 10, 2010, 05:00:59 am
Anyway I even tried to use the EMP missile to disrupt the Shivan Cruiser and take out its beam turrets but the Aquitaine always jumped out before destoying the cruiser.
I've heard that the EMP missile counts as a weapon that can destroy corvettes and larger vessels. The idea is probably to pound the Tiamat until it seems that it isn't taking any more damage, then using the EMP missiles to destroy it. (I forget which build I was using then, possibly 3.6.10 Final, but at some point in FSO development it has been possible to destroy corvettes and larger vessels with any weapon; you just have to shoot them for hours, and time compression is recommended.)

Anyways, protip: you won't get anything from destroying the Tiamat. If you protect the Aquitaine well enough, you get some medal.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on May 10, 2010, 05:17:37 am
Doesn't change the fact that the Recommendations will still say a lot of stuff, other than the usual "We have no recommendations for you.".
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 10, 2010, 04:39:27 pm
i gave up on recommendations. 
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Det. Bullock on May 10, 2010, 05:39:07 pm
i gave up on recommendations. 
Me too this time.
I decided after seeing the Tiamat jumping out with 1% hull.   :wtf:
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 10, 2010, 11:56:09 pm
i think i only ever got it killed once, the very first time i played through.  i did manage to disable it, and had a massive rage when the hull locked at 1% or whatever it was (after 4x time compressed blasting for about 10 minutes)

but what i meant by give up on recommendations is that they either never worked right or said anything useful, so i stopped clicking the button.
Title: Re: im trying so hard to like freespace 2
Post by: S-99 on May 11, 2010, 03:28:26 am
Lol, yeah, that big damage flag in fs2.