Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: A Future Pilot on January 14, 2010, 07:22:24 pm

Title: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: A Future Pilot on January 14, 2010, 07:22:24 pm
OK, I just got FreeSpace, and FreeSpace 2 from GOG. I installed Freespace and played through it, and I'm almost finished with the expansion. I absolutely LOVE these games!! So I'm actually downloading FS2 as I write this, and was wondering, what exactly does FSOpen add, and what does it change, and what does it take away, if anything. Obviously I'm all for better graphics, but I'm an old games kinda guy, and the graphics didn't bother me a bit in FS1. So do I need to get FSOpen? Does it change any of the original gameplay or anything? And does it still have everything the original did?

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Topgun on January 14, 2010, 07:27:36 pm
you need it.




it is 1337.

it doesn't change the gameplay but mods exist for that. it doesn't change anything that can't be turned on/off and it will open the door to lots of really good fan-made campaigns.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: General Battuta on January 14, 2010, 07:28:25 pm
It takes away nothing.

It will allow you to play FreeSpace 2, as well as dozens of high-quality user-made campaigns (many of which require FSOpen), using the best graphics your system can handle.

You can feel free to play retail FS2, but I'd strongly encourage upgrading to FSOpen afterwards (you won't regret it - so many good campaigns!), and if you encounter any bugs in retail FS2, our advice will be to get FSOpen.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: The E on January 14, 2010, 07:29:20 pm
FSOpen, by itself, does not add much. Except, of course, better performance on modern systems, support for more resolutions, less bugs, that sort of thing.

The gameplay, in particular, is not changed very much. There are a few differences, notably in the AI behaviour, but those are being corrected.

The big graphical improvements start when you use the MediaVPs, a mod that revamps the retail assets to bring them closer to modern standards.

So, to answer your question directly, FSOpen gives you everything FS2 gave you in terms of gameplay, but it also gives you the opportunity to enjoy FS2 with really awesome graphics.

A comprehensive guide telling you exactly how to set up FS2Open can be found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=47640.0

Follow the instructions in there, install the mediavps, and enjoy FS2 in all its glory.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: General Battuta on January 14, 2010, 07:31:12 pm
Once you're done with retail FS2 (which is a blast - one of the best campaigns out there even after all this fan work), try out Silent Threat: Reborn, Transcend, Derelict, Blue Planet, and Windmills.

If you're in the mood for a real challenge, I suggest The Procyon Insurgency.

The_E, is Turey's Installer working okay?
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: The E on January 14, 2010, 07:33:30 pm
The_E, is Turey's Installer working okay?

I keep hearing ungood things about some of its download locations not functioning correctly. Thus I recommend doing it manually.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: General Battuta on January 14, 2010, 07:37:21 pm
Right. Well, if you do choose to install, we'll be here to walk you through it if you want to take the manual route.  :)
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: A Future Pilot on January 14, 2010, 07:38:58 pm
OK, thanks for the quick replies!! And yeah, that was my second question was should I use the installer? I'm fairly computer knowledgeable (My OS of choice is Arch Linux ;-) so if you get me a guide I can probably install it manually. Thanks!
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: The E on January 14, 2010, 07:51:17 pm
There's a fairly good guide for FS2 on Linux available here: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Guide_to_FS_Open_on_Linux
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: A Future Pilot on January 14, 2010, 07:52:52 pm
Heehee, oops, I definitely didn't say that well  :rolleyes: I'm actually on Windows XP, but my favorite OS is Arch Linux :-)
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: The E on January 14, 2010, 07:56:58 pm
Okay, well, just saying that there is Linux support.

Windows has by far the easiest installation procedure, though.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: jr2 on January 14, 2010, 08:49:58 pm
FSOpen also revamps FS1 through the FSPort project.  ;)  So you can play through that again.. eh, here,   A Celebration of FreeSpace (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=25406.0) You can find lots of pretty screenshots in that thread.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 14, 2010, 09:16:22 pm
The FreeSpace Port project is not a subset of the Source Code Project (which produces FSO).  However, it is definitely worth checking out for the stuff it provides, such as the the ability to play the main FS1 campaign in FS2 and the aforementioned Silent Threat: Reborn.

And I get really annoyed when the only thing people say about FSO is that it boosts your graphics.  In truth, it boosts a lot more than that -- multiple ship docking, scripting support, in-mission cutscenes, extra mission events, and loads of flags to customize just about anything you want.  In short, it provides a tool for mod makers to create truly awesome campaigns.  Things like Transcend, for example, would never have been possible without FSO's enhanced mission events.

EDIT: Incidentally, Turey's Installer works just fine; I just used it the other day.  It won't download certain campaigns because the campaign makers haven't updated their links, but all the campaigns it does download (and there are many) are well worth playing.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 15, 2010, 11:02:17 am
What about the cutscenes? fszmirror.com seems to have died and it was the only source for the cutscene packs at least a while back.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Galemp on January 15, 2010, 12:00:07 pm
You ought to use FSOpen for better performance on modern systems, including more screen resolutions. (Just don't forget to install OpenAL.) But the number one reason you should use FSO is so you can use the Media VPs mod. Note that at the FS Upgrade Project we are extremely strict about gameplay changes; we upgrade visuals only.

Let's have a comparison.

FS:
(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/screens/fullsize/fsshot0015.jpg)

FS2 Retail:
(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/fs2screen.jpg)

FS2 Open Media VPs:
(http://pjfoliver.googlepages.com/lokiscreen.jpg)

And when you've picked your jaw up off the floor, you can install FSPort and Silent Threat: Reborn to play Silent Threat how it should have been.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Vip on January 15, 2010, 12:17:27 pm
What about the cutscenes? fszmirror.com seems to have died and it was the only source for the cutscene packs at least a while back.

And... what's wrong with the ones shipped with the GOG.com version ? :P
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 15, 2010, 12:23:22 pm
What about the cutscenes? fszmirror.com seems to have died and it was the only source for the cutscene packs at least a while back.

And... what's wrong with the ones shipped with the GOG.com version ? :P
1. At least with FS2 they're placed in strange places (\freespace2\data2\ and/or \freespace2\data3\), which makes FSO ignore them.

2. When people install FSPort, they're like wuttehfuk when the FS1 cutscenes aren't playing while playing FSPort.

3. Some people are just concerned when the Installer informs them that it has failed.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Commander Zane on January 15, 2010, 02:55:13 pm
(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/screens/fullsize/fsshot0015.jpg)
I miss that nebula. :nervous:
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Mongoose on January 15, 2010, 04:47:56 pm
I miss that nebula. :nervous:
I've heard that there are remnants of the FS1-style nebula code in the original FS2 codebase, but they were never completed and/or activated.  If I felt more confident in my coding abilities, I'd try digging in and seeing what (if anything) could be done to get them working again.  It'd give a nice nostalgia-trip option, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: castor on January 16, 2010, 09:59:44 am
Yea, I loved that nebula too. Subtle, peaceful and yet unnerving.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Thaeris on January 16, 2010, 08:14:06 pm
Feature request time?
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: castor on January 17, 2010, 06:05:55 am
Its been discussed before. IIRC, the result was it would be too much of a hassle (codewise), considering the limited usage of the feature (or something to that effect).
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 17, 2010, 06:44:28 am
Future Pilot..

Play FS2 through without FSO first... Get a love for it in it's original flavour. Then crack open a bottle of FSO Sauce and smother it.
It's gonna blow your metaphorical socks off. :nod:
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Spoon on January 17, 2010, 09:01:44 am
Future Pilot..

Play FS2 through without FSO first... Get a love for it in it's original flavour. Then crack open a bottle of FSO Sauce and smother it.
It's gonna blow your metaphorical socks off. :nod:
Or blablabla don't. Just play FS2 with FSO.
Don't listen to people with Nostalgia goggles  :p
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 17, 2010, 09:03:55 am
Just as a side note, his "graphics card" isn't getting along with FSO all that well (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67555.0) and he'll probably have to either go back to FS2 or buy new hardware.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: IronForge on January 18, 2010, 03:14:51 am
I'm a little surprised why GoG didn't make any proposal to HLP to sell it together or something. After all, FS2 is GoG's topseller. In fact, I'm surprised GoG is even surviving at all!! I heard latest scoop was that they were sellin FS2 (reminder: most popular product) for 5 bucks or something. And they probably have to give V or Interplay or whoever a big cut outta it.
Hosting costs (since they distribute by download) aside, thats probably 2 dollar profit per sale.

Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 18, 2010, 06:24:04 am
/me checks JeffVader's link.

:wtf:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67555.msg1334696#msg1334696

VIA/S3? I have that on my family PC, and it is, to put it bluntly across, the most rubbish graphics card I've ever come across. At least Intel works fine despite (according to Jeff) the outdated OpenGL drivers on my Mac.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: General Battuta on January 18, 2010, 10:00:32 am
I'm a little surprised why GoG didn't make any proposal to HLP to sell it together or something. After all, FS2 is GoG's topseller. In fact, I'm surprised GoG is even surviving at all!! I heard latest scoop was that they were sellin FS2 (reminder: most popular product) for 5 bucks or something. And they probably have to give V or Interplay or whoever a big cut outta it.
Hosting costs (since they distribute by download) aside, thats probably 2 dollar profit per sale.

Um, they've always sold FS2 for about that price. It's nothing new.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 18, 2010, 10:22:51 am
They've also been doing it for about a year or two now, if my estimations are correct (they usually aren't). :nervous:
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: General Battuta on January 18, 2010, 10:35:51 am
Androgeos, you confuse me.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 18, 2010, 10:36:39 am
Yes.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 18, 2010, 02:15:31 pm
I'm a little surprised why GoG didn't make any proposal to HLP to sell it together or something. After all, FS2 is GoG's topseller. In fact, I'm surprised GoG is even surviving at all!! I heard latest scoop was that they were sellin FS2 (reminder: most popular product) for 5 bucks or something. And they probably have to give V or Interplay or whoever a big cut outta it.
Hosting costs (since they distribute by download) aside, thats probably 2 dollar profit per sale.



They can't do stuff like that, and if they would, HLP couldn't accept.

First of all, HLP is in no way affiliated with the rights holder. GoG is; they have aquired permission from Interplay to sell their game and Interplay receives profits from it. For HLP to start cashing in would violate all copyright and intellectual property laws I can think of.

Secondly, the content produced by FS2 community is pretty much either non-lisenced or related to the source code which still belongs to Volition even if they opened it by releasing it and changing it's license to one that allows outside modification on a non-commercial, non-profit basis. Note the key part in the end. No one is allowed to benefit from that stuff by selling it.

Thirdly, the content that is not related to the code is a patchwork of enhanced original FreeSpace franchise based media and original works from numerous authors. To approve commercial utilization of this content, not only would it be necessary to acquire permission from Interplay but also from the individual content creators themselves. This task in itself would be close to impossible in this point since content creators come and go, and might spend years in hibernation, so to speak.

Of course HLP could make an advertisement deal with GoG individually, but really, that would be kinda cheap and I doubt they would be willing to start paying for use to tell people where to download FS2, since we're already doing it for free just because they are a pretty cool company and we want to point people to a legitimate means of acquiring the retail game.
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: jr2 on January 18, 2010, 02:25:47 pm
It might be nice to have FSO as a selling point of FS / FS2 though. And add a link to HLP under the game options in the bookshelf.  No reason why not to advertise the fact that the fan community is alive and well and has presents.  ;)
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Vip on January 18, 2010, 02:42:46 pm
Actually, although it's not very prominent, there is a whole page about FSO on GOG.com

http://www.gog.com/en/editorial/freespace_2_open_source_code_project_spotlight/%22
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 18, 2010, 02:53:07 pm
I'm a little surprised why GoG didn't make any proposal to HLP to sell it together or something.
Who says they didn't?

Quote
After all, FS2 is GoG's top seller.
Citation please?
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: jr2 on January 18, 2010, 06:12:16 pm
Well, FS2 is the 3rd highest rated game on there, right behind #1 Fallout and #2 Fallout 2.  FS/ST is #15.

http://www.gog.com/en/search/sort/order/rate
Title: Re: Do I need FSOpen?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 18, 2010, 07:05:59 pm
Indeed, but I don't see a sales rank page. :)

I'm not saying FS2 isn't a best-seller, but I'd like to see a source before we start gushing. :D