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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Inglonias on January 20, 2010, 11:28:20 am

Title: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Inglonias on January 20, 2010, 11:28:20 am
I can maybe let it slide that the GTA knows the names of PVC ships because they invented a translator (apparently) at some point during the Terran-Vasudan War, but how do they know/decide the name of Shivan ships AS THEY APPEAR. Do they pull names out of a hat, or are the names predetermied, like what they do with hurricanes? (They go through an alphabetical list of hurricane names, and when they run out, they start over.)

I just want to know because it seems odd that the GTVA knows exactly what to call each ship.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: General Battuta on January 20, 2010, 11:39:58 am
Probably a list of unassigned names in the fighter/warship/command's warbook (or whatever tactical computer) that gets assigned to new ships as they appear.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: ktistai228 on January 20, 2010, 11:42:04 am
well, you can call them predetermined. Vasudan ships are named after Egyptian(see Horus, Ra, Psamtik) gods and references, Shivan ships are named after Biblical (See Cain, Lilith, Lucifer) and Indian gods/references (see Ravana, Shaitan) and Terran usually go for Greek(see Zeus, Medusa, Perseus) or Scandinavian(see Loki). Terran individual ship names are references to actual existing or former ships.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Mongoose on January 20, 2010, 02:38:48 pm
There's an elite anthropology team employed by the GTVA whose sole task is auto-generating new ship names on the fly. :p
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: IronBeer on January 20, 2010, 02:39:29 pm
Yeah, I'ma jump on the "pre-determined name list" bandwagon.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 20, 2010, 02:46:38 pm
That reminds me of the first Shivan mission of FS2, near the Knossos, when one of your wingmates says "We've got a new fighter class here, designation Astharoth." Why the hell would a stupid random pilot be the one who decides of a name classification ? So I'm also going for the pre-determined name list, but something that would be embarqued on every ship because of this sequence.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 20, 2010, 04:38:24 pm
I kinda like the idea. No promotion but a tiny piece of fame for a nameless cog in the great machine.

Hey, could we FRED this? The player could assign the name to a corresponding fighter type.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Dragon on January 20, 2010, 04:47:47 pm
I don't think so, but you can FRED player's character assigning a name.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: ssmit132 on January 20, 2010, 10:11:07 pm
That reminds me of the first Shivan mission of FS2, near the Knossos, when one of your wingmates says "We've got a new fighter class here, designation Astharoth." Why the hell would a stupid random pilot be the one who decides of a name classification ? So I'm also going for the pre-determined name list, but something that would be embarqued on every ship because of this sequence.

This. Also, I doubt a random pilot is going to think up Astaroth on the fly unless he's well learned in demonology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth).
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 21, 2010, 09:51:11 am
This. Also, I doubt a random pilot is going to think up Astaroth on the fly unless he's well learned in demonology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth).
Point there, too :p
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: swampzero on January 21, 2010, 11:22:16 am
That reminds me of the first Shivan mission of FS2, near the Knossos, when one of your wingmates says "We've got a new fighter class here, designation Astharoth." Why the hell would a stupid random pilot be the one who decides of a name classification ? So I'm also going for the pre-determined name list, but something that would be embarqued on every ship because of this sequence.

This. Also, I doubt a random pilot is going to think up Astaroth on the fly unless he's well learned in demonology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth).

his flight computer probably just labeled it "astaroth" on their radar, since it was the next pre-determined name to be assigned on the next unknown
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Snail on January 21, 2010, 11:40:36 am
Quote from: Tech Room Description for Vasudans
Because the Vasudan homeworld was primarily desert, the Terrans used Egyptian names to designate Vasudan warships during the Terran-Vasudan War and the Great War. After the defeat of the Shivans, the Vasudans insisted on maintaining this convention. The Emperor strongly identified with the history of Ancient Egypt, particularly the longevity of its civilization. Following their Emperor's example, Vasudans will take on what they call a Terran name from the myths and history of Ancient Egypt.
They are simply reporting names.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 21, 2010, 01:44:56 pm
Let's say for instance that two completely seperate engagements are taking place in two different allied systems.
 
Two different classes of ship jump in at the same time. One in each engagement. Could be a Taurvi and a Nahema for arguments sake.
. . But they've not been identified at this point in time.
 
 
 
Does the JTIDS blow a fuse or is each record downloaded from the black box and e-mailed to HQ?
 
What I guess i'm asking are the identifying craft linked in any way to avoid duplicate designations?
 
If so, how the hell can't they apply it to contacting sol a little quicker.
 
The only comms hardware i've seen was the Faustius in silent threat (or was it fs1). That was awful.
 
 
If the craft aren't linked, and four different sorties RTB with four different Maras, do they assign by mission clock or by tonnage?
 
Or maybe a wizard does it :)
 
That'd solve so much aggro lol. . .
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Galemp on January 21, 2010, 02:19:04 pm
That's what the "Unknown Fighter" designation is for, pilot.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on January 21, 2010, 04:57:12 pm
Personally, I think it's just a minor plothole that volition forgot to plug.  The automatic designation theory is plausible, but runs into problems with some of the ships NOT being auto-designated on their first appearance.  The Ravana, for example.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: The E on January 21, 2010, 04:59:35 pm
Doesn't have to be a plothole. Name designation on the fly might be used only for fighters, bigger ships will probably still get their names assigned by some staff guy.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Mongoose on January 21, 2010, 06:22:42 pm
And if multiple simultaneous encounters assign different names to the same class (or the same names to different classes, for that matter), I'd imagine it would all be sorted out afterwards.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Aardwolf on January 21, 2010, 06:52:43 pm
I kinda like the idea. No promotion but a tiny piece of fame for a nameless cog in the great machine.

Hey, could we FRED this? The player could assign the name to a corresponding fighter type.

Haha, funny thought I just had there... you know how in Spore virtually all the species are phallic?

(hypothetical dialog follows)

Pilot: We've encountered a wing of Shivan fighters, command... the database does not recognize the configuration.
Pilot: Hey, that means I get to name it, doesn't it? I'm going to call it "*****tits"!
Command: *sigh*

Edit: oh yeah, and:
Quote
The database does not recognize the configuration.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 21, 2010, 07:27:51 pm
Pilot: We've encountered a wing of Shivan fighters, command... the database does not recognize the configuration.
Pilot: Hey, that means I get to name it, doesn't it? I'm going to call it "*****tits"!
Command: *sigh*

Ducktits! Woohoo!

Kudos to anyone who gets the reference.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Thaeris on January 21, 2010, 08:00:39 pm
 :wtf:

Howard the Duck?
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 21, 2010, 08:05:20 pm
:wtf:

Howard the Duck?

Yup, the Nostalgia Critic's review to be exact :D
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 22, 2010, 02:16:57 am
Awesome credits song and a golf-cart with a laser!
 
I'm gonna Youtube that right now!
 
 
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Nemesis6 on January 22, 2010, 03:57:11 am
(http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2009/04/01-07/nerd.jpg)

Start talking about World of Warcraft now, why don't you... Or how Linux is better than Windows...  :doubt:
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 22, 2010, 04:51:55 pm
List.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Snail on January 22, 2010, 06:35:29 pm
Well this has gone nowhere quick.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: blackhole on January 22, 2010, 10:33:57 pm
 :wtf:

Holy crap people, only rabid fanboys would allow this to bother them. It's a goddamn LIST and when they hit a new fighter they pull it off a name list, presumably depending on if its a fighter, bomber or interceptor. This makes perfect military sense because there is always the possibility of encountering more then one new ship type at the same time, and if that happens you simply can't be referring to them as LOOK OUT THERE'S AN UNDESIGNATED SHIVAN FIGHTER CLASS OF SOME SORT SHOOTING AT YOU. Hence there would be a list of prepared names.

Seriously, this should be a No Duh kind of thing.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: General Battuta on January 22, 2010, 10:41:43 pm
Um, has there actually really been any debate on that point?

Chill. The ****. Out.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Droid803 on January 22, 2010, 10:58:03 pm
Request split/lock?
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: General Battuta on January 22, 2010, 11:07:10 pm
Huh? Thread's still on topic.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Droid803 on January 22, 2010, 11:08:39 pm
But there's nothing more to say - I mean, there's been no debate on the fact that they just have a list and they take names from it.
Also, there's more spam in this thread than actual content, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Dilmah G on January 23, 2010, 01:55:54 am
:wtf:

Holy crap people, only rabid fanboys would allow this to bother them. It's a goddamn LIST and when they hit a new fighter they pull it off a name list, presumably depending on if its a fighter, bomber or interceptor. This makes perfect military sense because there is always the possibility of encountering more then one new ship type at the same time, and if that happens you simply can't be referring to them as LOOK OUT THERE'S AN UNDESIGNATED SHIVAN FIGHTER CLASS OF SOME SORT SHOOTING AT YOU. Hence there would be a list of prepared names.

Seriously, this should be a No Duh kind of thing.
Oh jeez, calm the **** down. We're having a discussion. This is a forum. Discussion, is kind of what we're about. To quote AoA, "What crawled into your fighter and died?"

If you feel like being a ****ing troll, go play some Halo, homeboy.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Mongoose on January 23, 2010, 02:43:12 am
Okay, everyone cool it, or this thread really is heading for locksville.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 23, 2010, 08:34:43 am
All right, back to topic:
What do you think, why were the FS1 Shivan wingnames discarded?
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Kszyhu on January 23, 2010, 08:49:46 am
Those names were connected to Hinduism, which caused some backlash among believers of said religion. (At least that's what I've read somewhere).
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Snail on January 23, 2010, 09:25:44 am
I'm not sure if FreeSpace itself was subject to this backlash, but other stuff which used similar names was. Volition might have decided to be on the safe side and avoid all possible criticism and just use more neutral names.


Interestingly though, this decision appears to have been made sometime during development, as if you take a peek into the mission files of FS2 some of them still refer to them with their original names, albeit behind the scenes (like message or event names, invisible to the player).

Also, NTF ships were originally named "Marauder" and "Bandit" as if they were Pirates like in Derelict. You can still see a remnant of this in the Sixth Wonder briefing (one of the bomber wings being named "Bandit").
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Dilmah G on January 23, 2010, 10:02:17 am
Hmm, that's interesting. I should open these missions up sometime.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 23, 2010, 11:58:33 am
Those names were connected to Hinduism, which caused some backlash among believers of said religion. (At least that's what I've read somewhere).

Aren't the new ones insulting the astrologists then? :D
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 23, 2010, 12:03:59 pm
Who cares about astrologists ? :p
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: SuperCoolAl on January 27, 2010, 06:52:09 pm
On this one I like to think that Command decided after the GW to use a species-neutral hostile wing designation system, and used the astrological signs because it's what they used for Vasudan wings in the T-V war, after all in FS2 NTF fighter wings have the same designation as Shivan ones.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Paladin327 on January 27, 2010, 11:59:06 pm
or the old shivan names could have been dumped to save space in ship's tactical computers.

As for capital ships like the Ravana and Sathanas (1) were most likely named as such as they were the first ship encountered of their class. its highly probable that Alpha 1 never sees the first deployment of every enemy vessel ever created. Ever
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: SuperCoolAl on January 28, 2010, 01:53:00 am
I'm not sure what you mean. Alpha 1 is there for the first encounter of the Ravana and Sathanas. Also the Astaroth fighters.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Paladin327 on January 28, 2010, 11:01:58 pm
I'm not sure what you mean. Alpha 1 is there for the first encounter of the Ravana and Sathanas. Also the Astaroth fighters.

What i'm saying is that seafaring tradition is that the first ship of a class gives the name to the entire class (Nimitz-class, Iowa-class, Ravana-class etc.) assuming that tradition has been kept, which is also true with the Lucifer, then alpha 1 never encouters the SC Cain, SC Lillith, SC Rakshasa, SCv Moloch, SD Demon, which, if this theory holds up, were the first ships of said classes to be encountered/named by the GTVA. I'm not mentioning fighters as, to my knowledge, dont have specific names, making them, for the purposes of my argument, irrelevant. im just talking big-arsed capital ships
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Droid803 on January 28, 2010, 11:12:31 pm
Actually, you do encounter the SC Cain. It's in the mission with the 3 jump nodes in FS1, along with the SC Abel. I don't know why everyone forgets them.
The argument that they're named after the first ship of the class still holds though - that cruiser could easily have been the first encountered, it just hung around until then, and finally got finished off.
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Lucika on January 29, 2010, 08:22:08 am
Actually, you do encounter the SC Cain. It's in the mission with the 3 jump nodes in FS1, along with the SC Abel. I don't know why everyone forgets them.
The argument that they're named after the first ship of the class still holds though - that cruiser could easily have been the first encountered, it just hung around until then, and finally got finished off.

That was the one after the destruction of Vasuda Prime, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Droid803 on January 29, 2010, 05:03:44 pm
Yeah/ the FS1 "Exodus".
Title: Re: Question about named ships (nerd nitpick)
Post by: Paladin327 on January 31, 2010, 03:53:54 pm
i think command got lazy a few times when shivan ships hung around each other: ex. SC Cain, SC Able; SC Thunder, SC Lightning; Hellions 1, Hellions 2, Hellions 3...