Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: idv170 on January 20, 2010, 03:56:22 pm
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Hi there, been lurking around but finally joined the bandwagon. :D
I'm just curious about possible ends to the problems created at the end of the 2nd Shivan Incursion:
1. What happens to the Capellan refugees?
2. What would the effect on Terran-Vasudan relationships be? Some mod fanfiction write that Vasudans and Terrans split apart but what can the Vasudans do that the Terrans resent so much?
3. From the campaign, it appears that the Terrans now have the capability to build another Knossos. Is it possible that the straining relationships between the two races is due to the Terran half's desire to reunite with Sol overriding the practicalities of aid packages to war devastated systems?
Been checking out these ideas on the search function; no similar results unfortunately.
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Well, we are all invited to speculate on these matters. Each mod set in a post-Capella universe comes up with different answers to these questions; and all of them are equally valid (even if not told equally well). Some campaigns answer these questions better than others.
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:welcomered:
Since there is no canon after FS2, the answers to all those questions are unknown. Like The E said, everyone has their own thoughts and theories, so feel free to come up with your own.
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1. Unknown.
2. Unknown. Just keep in mind the Vasudans don't have to be the offending party.
3. They think they can, the campaign doesn't really point in one way or the other whether that venture will succeed. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are a grand total of, what, five or six worlds where fighting occurred, even in orbit. All three of the NTF held systems, Epsilon Pegasi, and Capella. Gamma Draconis was not populated, so not aid package there. Capella is kaput. The other four would not tie up an enormous percentage of 30+ populated worlds' economies, especially now that active military operations are much less necessary.
Other than that, what The E said.
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Play Derelict and Blue Planet for two different takes on what happens after Capella.
Both have fairly detailed background materials. The Blue Planet stuff can be found in my sig.
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Oooh! And don't forget about Inferno.
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The Blue Planet stuff can be found in my sig.
And Derelict is (http://here) here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=38019.0.html).
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Oooh! And don't forget about Inferno.
I don't believe Inferno actually tried to answer these questions in particular.
The Blue Planet stuff can be found in my sig.
And Derelict is (http://here) here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=38019.0.html).
That's the Derelict campaign, not any sort of background material.
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Oooh! And don't forget about Inferno.
I don't believe Inferno actually tried to answer these questions in particular.
Eh, you can read into some of the missions if you want, but explicit answers to questions 1 and 2 aren't present there. It does seem to imply that Terran-Vasudan relations were still cordial enough to embark on joint military expeditions still (saving a Vasudan carrier, working alongside Vasudan destroyers on at least 2 missions).
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Hi there, been lurking around but finally joined the bandwagon. :D
I'm just curious about possible ends to the problems created at the end of the 2nd Shivan Incursion:
1. What happens to the Capellan refugees?
2. What would the effect on Terran-Vasudan relationships be? Some mod fanfiction write that Vasudans and Terrans split apart but what can the Vasudans do that the Terrans resent so much?
3. From the campaign, it appears that the Terrans now have the capability to build another Knossos. Is it possible that the straining relationships between the two races is due to the Terran half's desire to reunite with Sol overriding the practicalities of aid packages to war devastated systems?
Been checking out these ideas on the search function; no similar results unfortunately.
1.) No doubt they would be resettled somewhere.
2.) Total unknown. All it takes is a Vasudan version of Bosch or another actual Bosch to set things off. However, by this time the TV war has become more and more distant, and given that the majority of the fleets Terrans fought alongside the Vasudans to put an end to genocide as well as the rebellion (especially since those loyalist Terrans were also on the recieving end of the NTF's war crimes), I would think most Terrans would be off the hook. Combining that with with fighting together to fend off the Shivans, maybe relations would actually have improved.
Eh, you can read into some of the missions if you want, but explicit answers to questions 1 and 2 aren't present there. It does seem to imply that Terran-Vasudan relations were still cordial enough to embark on joint military expeditions still (saving a Vasudan carrier, working alongside Vasudan destroyers on at least 2 missions).
Yes but they barely got along, and weren't engaged with fighting the EA at all until the Shivans show up again, leaving their allies to do all the fighting. Needless to say their relations were at the lowest point since the beginning of the first Shivan invasion.
3.) The war wasn't nearly as wide spread as the first one. Only a handful of systems were actually involved, and except for Capella the destruction was entirely caused by Terrans. Now, compare this with the extreme casualties and losses from FS1 where eveything was wrecked, devastated, or outright destroyed. In the reconstruction almost everything needed to be rebuilt, but after FS2 the damage was much much smaller. This would actually allow the GTVA to expand its shipbuilding capacity because most of its key systems weren't really affected, allowing for the construction of bigger, better, and more ships.
We should also keep in mind that Sol itself has an enormous manufacturing base that would also benefit the GTVA tremendously to have, as well as whatever technological advances they've made (I imagine terraforming has made big strides to accomodate a growing and sealed in population).
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2. . . . . . . Because, nah it's too easy. I'm not gonna indulge myself. ;)
There is no limit to what could have happened so long as it's Freddable. :)
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That's why I put "total unknown", many different possibilities.
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About 3), there are two main possible interpretations of how bad the battle of Capella went. Either the only engaged fleets were the 3rd fleet and Vasudan 14th (is that 14th ?) Battlegroup, or GTVA (decided and/or had enough time to) send the whole fleet in Capella. And given that it is clearly specified that the engaged part of the fleet took quite a beating, either the GTVA military losses were big but not catastrophic, or the whole fleet is decimated. There is nothing in canon materials to confirm the latter nor the former.
My point is being that it is perfectly possible that, while contrary to the Great War the civilian infrastructure in most of the GTVA were left mostly untouched, the military losses can rank as high or even higher to those during the Great War.
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It's entirely up to the mod-maker to interpret Petrarch:
We lost...most of our fleet
He could be talking about the GTVA fleet as a whole, or just Third Fleet.
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About 3), there are two main possible interpretations of how bad the battle of Capella went. Either the only engaged fleets were the 3rd fleet and Vasudan 14th (is that 14th ?) Battlegroup, or GTVA (decided and/or had enough time to) send the whole fleet in Capella. And given that it is clearly specified that the engaged part of the fleet took quite a beating, either the GTVA military losses were big but not catastrophic, or the whole fleet is decimated. There is nothing in canon materials to confirm the latter nor the former.
My point is being that it is perfectly possible that, while contrary to the Great War the civilian infrastructure in most of the GTVA were left mostly untouched, the military losses can rank as high or even higher to those during the Great War.
Some reading between the lines made me think that it was nearly the entire fleet was destroyed. During the NTF surge, briefings reported that 75% of the fleet in system (don't remember which one) was destroyed, and listed i think two destroyers and a few cruisers and corvettes. During the Shivan assaults on Cappella, at least that many ships were reported destroyed every briefing. In all, it sounded like 4 to 5 times the NTF losses were lost to the Shivans, plus the collossus, which was essentially a battlegroup unto itself. To me, that would seem to indicate the bulk of the GTVA fleet.
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About 3), there are two main possible interpretations of how bad the battle of Capella went. Either the only engaged fleets were the 3rd fleet and Vasudan 14th (is that 14th ?) Battlegroup, or GTVA (decided and/or had enough time to) send the whole fleet in Capella. And given that it is clearly specified that the engaged part of the fleet took quite a beating, either the GTVA military losses were big but not catastrophic, or the whole fleet is decimated. There is nothing in canon materials to confirm the latter nor the former.
My point is being that it is perfectly possible that, while contrary to the Great War the civilian infrastructure in most of the GTVA were left mostly untouched, the military losses can rank as high or even higher to those during the Great War.
Some reading between the lines made me think that it was nearly the entire fleet was destroyed. During the NTF surge, briefings reported that 75% of the fleet in system (don't remember which one) was destroyed, and listed i think two destroyers and a few cruisers and corvettes. During the Shivan assaults on Cappella, at least that many ships were reported destroyed every briefing. In all, it sounded like 4 to 5 times the NTF losses were lost to the Shivans, plus the collossus, which was essentially a battlegroup unto itself. To me, that would seem to indicate the bulk of the GTVA fleet.
not to mention the fact that the shivans always warrant a fleet wide response.
After the Great War I imagine there was a standing battle plan updated every few years just in case of renewed shivan contact and any sane plan after the Great War would involve the bulk of the available fleet being put on standby with a significant portion being rushed strait to the front lines, my guess would be once the NTF was crushed and the scale of the Shivan force was apparent there would be at least two fleets from each species + Colossus fleet + reinforcements, also they were evacuating two hundred fifty million civilians with would require a significant military presence of its own to maintain order say another fleet + thousands of soldiers and police i recon most of the GTVA military might was in system
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About 3), there are two main possible interpretations of how bad the battle of Capella went. Either the only engaged fleets were the 3rd fleet and Vasudan 14th (is that 14th ?) Battlegroup, or GTVA (decided and/or had enough time to) send the whole fleet in Capella. And given that it is clearly specified that the engaged part of the fleet took quite a beating, either the GTVA military losses were big but not catastrophic, or the whole fleet is decimated. There is nothing in canon materials to confirm the latter nor the former.
My point is being that it is perfectly possible that, while contrary to the Great War the civilian infrastructure in most of the GTVA were left mostly untouched, the military losses can rank as high or even higher to those during the Great War.
Some reading between the lines made me think that it was nearly the entire fleet was destroyed. During the NTF surge, briefings reported that 75% of the fleet in system (don't remember which one) was destroyed, and listed i think two destroyers and a few cruisers and corvettes. During the Shivan assaults on Cappella, at least that many ships were reported destroyed every briefing. In all, it sounded like 4 to 5 times the NTF losses were lost to the Shivans, plus the collossus, which was essentially a battlegroup unto itself. To me, that would seem to indicate the bulk of the GTVA fleet.
Then again those losses in Epsilon Pegasi were inflicted on a fleet that was already cut down to the bone by mass defections to the NTF.
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The fleet losses are ambiguous by the FS2 ending cutscene, so it's a case of 'whatever works for your mod.'