Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thaeris on January 26, 2010, 02:49:27 pm
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I was leafing through one of my aviation texts again today when I took particular note of an Fw-190 project: the V74...
This particular test version of the fighter was produced to test the SG117 Rohrblock cannon, a 7-barreled, 30mm monstrosity that wasn't nearly as cool as it sounds. As my text (Barnes & Noble's Warplanes of the Luftwaffe, edited by David Donald... this is an excellent book, by the way) didn't have any real information on this arcane bit of WWII tech, I needed to go to the internets...
...And here is what I found - note that the original page is in German (which is all and good for my distant German relatives :D):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%2520Sondergeraete/SG%2520117/Sondergereat%2520SG117.htm&ei=71FfS5WXFIbANaTK3OYE&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSG117%2BRohrblock%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox
The translation's not great, but if you're aware of the fact that they're talking about using the round from the MK108 and putting it in a "duct-taped Roman candle" assembly, then you're good to go. This is by all means NOT the most impressive piece of German tech from the Second World War, but it is interesting... :nod:
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that V. SG "Pipe Block drum" Usage: SG 117 rifle for Horizontalschuß is a monster
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/SG%20117/Skizzen/klein/Rohrblocktrommel.jpg)
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id have rather had six browning 50 cals myself. the germans did use some pretty big guns on aircraft though. as big as 72 mm iirc. but me, i like gatling guns, which unfortunately werent used in ww2. especially russian gatling guns, whos designs are bat**** insane.
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Wow... never heard of that one before. Much less as an installation on a 190! :)
Nuke, I think you mean the BK7,5 (75mm) used on the Hs129B-3. That was huge....especially compared to the size of the aircraft carrying it.
Also of interest is the MK213 (I think that is the number). Rotary 30mm cannon meant to be loaded on the Me262 and precursor to the Aden cannon.
My preferred loadout for aircraft weapons of WWII would be the four Hispano 20mm loadout found on the Typhoon and more importantly on the Tempest. Awesome combination of fire rate and muzzle velocity combined with heavy firepower.
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The SG117 is much more akin to a gigantic revolver than a gatling gun... except it would have shot off seven shells each shot! :p
My personal favorite is the MK112, a 55mm automatic cannon:
http://www.luft46.com/images/mk112-2.gif
If you look at the design, it basically appears to be a scaled-up MK108. This was not employed operationally, and thank God it wasn't! The Mk108 could supposedly destroy a bomber in 5-8 hits, so this thing would be rape incarnate! Of course, as this would, like the MK108, assumably be a low-velocity cannon, the pilot shooting at the bomber formation would have to get quite close as well, putting him in considerable danger...
Another neat one that saw service trials was a 21cm rocket mortar projector assembly derived from a rocket artillery battery. This was to be fitted to the Me 410 fighter in the fighter's weapons bay, where six internally-mounted tubes would be able to revolve into battery and successively launch a warhead - potentially at a very high rate of fire. It wasn't really very sucessful (and the 21cm rocket mortar wasn't really accurate to begin with) and development was stopped. There's an article about this at the bottom - if I can find the actual assembly on the '410, I'll post it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_cm_Nebelwerfer_42
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in ww2 sims i usually look for an agile fighter with at least a 20 mm cannon or two. the zero was one of my favorites. of course if you were fighting the japanese, a 6pack fo brownings were more than adequate.
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I too love cannon armament. For which, I'd have to give the cookies to the Fw 190, the Me 262, and the unfortunately never-mass produced McDonnell XP-67...
I'm of the opinion the XP-67 would have been the best long-range Allied heavy of the war were it not for the heinous powerplant designed to power it. If this bird could have had the Merlin as a powerplant, ohh man...
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/xp67-6.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XP-67_Bat
SIX. 37mm. CANNONS!!!
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My personal favorite is the MK112, a 55mm automatic cannon:
http://www.luft46.com/images/mk112-2.gif
That looks supiciously like a ML-16 to me..... :wtf:
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Hmmm...
Well, this rather revolutionary weapon looks quite similar to the MX-50/Rockeye family of heat-seeking missiles:
http://www.luft46.com/missile/wasserfl.html
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Given the massive swab of crap that seems to be invading the HLP, I've decided to lighten the load with some more FUN STUFFZEN FROM ZE OLDZEN DAYZ!!! ;)
This project had the potential to be the weapon with the most sophisticated guidance system EVAR devised WITHOUT human gudance...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon
:D :D :D
Ah, and here's a picture:
(http://museum.nist.gov/panels/batmissile/images/pelic400_B.jpg)
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i remember a question about that on QI a while back
edit:
and how about this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
edit2:
going off topic
following this link at the bottom of your quoted page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Exploding_animals
then going
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_sheep
i didn't realise just how many significant games involve exploding sheep
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:p
Never heard of exploding attack dogs before... :D
I feel I should see that on Venture Brothers at some point. It's a very Venture-Brotherish way to die.
:lol:
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For the life of me i can't dind it on youtube...
but i SWEAR to jeebus. There was a video of a WWII German remote contolled tank. Well it was wired and tracked, but it was designed to go under tanks and blow them up.
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For the life of me i can't dind it on youtube...
but i SWEAR to jeebus. There was a video of a WWII German remote contolled tank. Well it was wired and tracked, but it was designed to go under tanks and blow them up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_tracked_mine
was that an early entry for the robot wars competition?
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Yes, but it was only good for one round :p
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Yalp. They had that.
...And it was a real flop in action. All too easy for friendly troops to neutralize before it could pose a threat. :nod:
Now, if you like fabulous flops, check this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger
Nothing like a modified Tiger (I) tank with a huge rocket mortar originally designed to be fired from submarines!
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Yalp. They had that.
...And it was a real flop in action. All too easy for friendly troops to neutralize before it could pose a threat. :nod:
Now, if you like fabulous flops, check this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger
Nothing like a modified Tiger (I) tank with a huge rocket mortar originally designed to be fired from submarines!
Russia develops the T-34, an elegant solution to tank armor
Germany develops the Tiger, an inelegant solution to the same problem (one of the heaviest tanks in WWII)
Germany then make it even lest subtle by mounting the biggest indirect fire weapon they could on the same chassis and making the armor even thicker
got to love the subtlety of WWII
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Nothing like a modified Tiger (I) tank with a huge rocket mortar originally designed to be fired from submarines!
You misread it. It's antisubmarine weapon. :p
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Nope. I'm pretty sure I didn't. That is of course dependant on the source, though.
From Jim Winchester's Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles of WWII:
"The 380mm (14.9in) mortar was originally a naval design intended for use by U-Boats against land targets, and could be seen as an ancestor of the ballistic missiles on today's submarines. When Kreigsmarine dropped the idea, it was taken up as a land-based weapon, and the only suitable cairrage for it was the Tiger tank."
...And, if you think about it, this really wouldn't have been the best anti-submarine weapon either, though I guess it might have been decent at hurling depth charges at long range.
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i remember a question about that on QI a while back
edit:
and how about this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog
edit2:
going off topic
following this link at the bottom of your quoted page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Exploding_animals
then going
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_sheep
i didn't realise just how many significant games involve exploding sheep
Whoever thought of that should die. A very slow, incredibly painful and agonizing death.
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Can't forget the flaming pigs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_pig) of old. Although according to that article it could have just been pig carcasses that were used.
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...And, if you think about it, this really wouldn't have been the best anti-submarine weapon either, though I guess it might have been decent at hurling depth charges at long range.
The point was to be able to fling a significantly sized round to kill a submarine with a nearby detontation or a direct hit. (14.96" is the same size as the Bismark-class' main battery. This is not a small gun.) It's not as easy as it sounds, even considering water transmits shock much better than air. Dropped depth charges of about 600 pounds were only considered effective against most WW2 submarines if they detonated within twenty feet. (And after-action photographs as often as not prove that wasn't good enough.) Gunnery with HE shells of smaller size rarely even bothers a submarine; even direct hits from 4" and 5" HE were unlikely to do significant damage to the pressure hull as they detonated against the exterior hydrodynamic hull.
So if you want to kill a submarine with an explosive charge, you really have to work at it. The 14.96" Rakatenwerfer worked at it.
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...At ranges of up to 6km, apparently. :p
I don't know, I guess the idea of a submarine-based rocket mortar round (which would be an applicable weapon for a sub - getting a 15-in gun on a U-Boat is really not feasible) is more intriguing than the predecessor to the ASROC. The weapon certainly could have performed either function.
...The problem I precieve with using it as a depth-charge launcher is making the appropriate calculations for detonating the charge with WWII tech. Certainly, the technology was nothing to scoff at back then, but for this thing to be effective, you'd at least need an analog computer to account for flight time fusing delays, and then the sink rate of the rocket, for this to be effective in a timely fashion. However, analog computers were pretty common, so it might have not been terribly hard to deploy at all...
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Can't forget the flaming pigs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_pig) of old. Although according to that article it could have just been pig carcasses that were used.
Mmm, mobile bacon...