Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Topgun on February 15, 2010, 10:17:16 am
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10451518-38.html
discuss
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I'm all for it.
Although cracked / hacked sims and PAYG phones are pretty much disposable for professional robbers.
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What irks me about this is the "warrantless" bit...that and the feds piss-poor excuse of "well, if you don't want us tracking you you shouldn't use your phone anyway". That's just pathetic. :ick:
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from what Dekker says, it sounds like DRM. Punishing people who operate inside the system in the pursuit of people who operate outside of the system.
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You know, they have a point; you really don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy about your location in legal terms.
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What irks me about this is the "warrantless" bit...that and the feds piss-poor excuse of "well, if you don't want us tracking you you shouldn't use your phone anyway". That's just pathetic. :ick:
your not guaranteed any privacy at all when you broadcast a radio signal. your signal can be intercepted, cracked, your conversation recorded and your position triangulated by anyone with the right kinda hacking knowledge and hardware. frankly its a violation of my rights to be constantly irradiated by em radiation, wtf should i care about the right to privacy of some rich person who can afford the ****ing bill. :hopping:
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I think they should put small quantities of C4 in every phone. Just in case.
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i really don't think it's anything to worry about. if the feds really want to, they can use my phone to figure out where i WAS. from what i see, this doesn't work in realtime. woopty fking do. i don't plan on robbing any banks, so i don't really see any negative impacts for me personally. the worst i can say for it is that it MIGHT set a precedent that could POSSIBLY make it somewhat easier for other, more invasive measures down the line, if that is the administration's agenda. but as much as i don't like obama or liberalism in general, i highly doubt they are out to get us.
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A non GPS phone will only show which transmitter tower is being used.
Google maps on my W995 only shows my exact location when 'I TURN' satellite tracking ON. If I don't even my phone doesn't know where it is.
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there are some phones (or carriers possibly) that can track to a certian degree of accuracy without GPS. i was on a road trip, and one of the guys in our car had a map application that used towers to triangulate.
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The precedent bothers me. I just think of the worst case scenario: tracking to make sure people are going to work, school, church, and if they don't have a good enough excuse...
But I'm a little paranoid.
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Either airwaves are free-to-air and therefore fair game (as satellite signal pirates claim) or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.
Warrants should not be required for cell phone location details.
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i agree, but the government apparantly doesn't. they absolutely do not believe in free airwaves.
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I don't really see a problem in this. Unless you're talking about something you don't want people to know about (which you shouldn't have to worry about, and if you do, they have a legitamate reason) then you're fine. And my impression of the article is that all they looked up was the time of the calls, not the recordings or something.
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A non GPS phone will only show which transmitter tower is being used.
Google maps on my W995 only shows my exact location when 'I TURN' satellite tracking ON. If I don't even my phone doesn't know where it is.
I am pretty sure you can triangulate the location.
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The Obama administration is not alone in making this argument. U.S. District Judge William Pauley, a Clinton appointee in New York, wrote in a 2009 opinion that a defendant in a drug trafficking case, Jose Navas, "did not have a legitimate expectation of privacy in the cell phone" location. That's because Navas only used the cell phone "on public thoroughfares en route from California to New York" and "if Navas intended to keep the cell phone's location private, he simply could have turned it off."
So if Reebok (?) put GPS chips in their product, then I would only have an expectation of privacy if I ran around barefoot? [/reaching example]
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One would think the best way of keeping them from tracking you would be to not have a cell phone.
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/me picks up the international guide to semaphore code
What? It's a step up from smoke signals
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So if Reebok (?) put GPS chips in their product, then I would only have an expectation of privacy if I ran around barefoot? [/reaching example]
More or less. You do not have a legal right to privacy regarding your location when questioned by an officer of the law. You never have. If there are alternate methods of ascertaining your location, like witness statements, you've never had a right to protect you against those either.
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I believe the FCC now requires all cell phone providers to be able to track you to within a certain radius at any time (we are talking a couple of blocks here). It's not fully implemented yet but is part of the 911 system. Yea that means you are being taxed on your cell phone to pay for it too if your in the US. Oh and it has to work with all phones not just GPS enabled ones so they aren't using just GPS to do it.
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I think phones are reasonable, because of the 911 thing.
But clothes? What about ID cards? Do the makers of those things have to tell us there are tracking devices in them? Whole thing makes my skin crawl a bit. Seems like stalking to me.
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I think phones are reasonable, because of the 911 thing.
But clothes? What about ID cards? Do the makers of those things have to tell us there are tracking devices in them? Whole thing makes my skin crawl a bit. Seems like stalking to me.
The big picture: just how many people do you think give a rat's ass where you're at?
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Just how many people give a rat's ass about going into your home and searching it without a warrant? Yet you still have a constitutional right to prevent that for the very limited number of occasions when someone definitely does give a rat's ass about it.
Arguing on the grounds that no one cares is only a short distance from "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" and we all know how often that's proved bollocks.
One would think the best way of keeping them from tracking you would be to not have a cell phone.
And you can stop warrant less wiretapping by not having a phone at all!
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Use a computer?
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all you really need to do to triangulate is measure the signal strength from at least 3 towers, which should give you plenty of data to pinpoint the precise location of the broadcast. you could do it with 2 directional antennae too, where you could get range and direction, and if you knew the tx power of the transmitter in the phone, you could probably find it with one directional antenna or two towers. what is scary is that the company would keep logs of the returned signal strength of your calls, but im sure there are reasons for this, such as to generate statistics on usage for network maintenance and upgrades, or to keep track of your location so they can match you up to the closest tower for best communication.
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all you really need to do to triangulate is measure the signal strength from at least 3 towers, which should give you plenty of data to pinpoint the precise location of the broadcast. you could do it with 2 directional antennae too, where you could get range and direction, and if you knew the tx power of the transmitter in the phone, you could probably find it with one directional antenna or two towers. what is scary is that the company would keep logs of the returned signal strength of your calls, but im sure there are reasons for this, such as to generate statistics on usage for network maintenance and upgrades, or to keep track of your location so they can match you up to the closest tower for best communication.
this
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I think phones are reasonable, because of the 911 thing.
But clothes? What about ID cards? Do the makers of those things have to tell us there are tracking devices in them? Whole thing makes my skin crawl a bit. Seems like stalking to me.
The big picture: just how many people do you think give a rat's ass where you're at?
I've been stalked before. It's not a nice feeling.
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I remember a topic on HLP which linked to an article about a tracking device the size of a grain of sand.
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all you need is a tiny transmitter with a specific signal, and with the right kind of hardware you can find it. its essentially a beacon.