Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Anti on February 17, 2010, 12:27:29 pm
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I'm trying to use a mouse with Freespace instead of a joystick.
My joystick is too noisy (squeaky) and bothers other people in the room.
However, trying to do a tight turn in a dogfight is impossible.
I have to 'vroom' the mouse across the desk like a child does with a clockwork car.
Is there anyway to make the mouse act like a joystick (ie. absolute movement)?
Or should I give up with the mouse and just use the keyboard instead?
Thanks for any advice.
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Keyboard.
Welcome to the "People who wish you could use a mouse as a virtual joystick in FSO, in the same manner as in Freelancer" club.
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Wasn't there a script to allow using mouse like that?
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If there is, give me a link to it. NOW.
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Personally get a trackball mouse. I've used one for... 15 years now (still works)
and I can out turn most stick users in flight combat games.
I use this one - http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-T-CL13-TrackMan-Marble-Wheel/dp/B00004L8IG (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-T-CL13-TrackMan-Marble-Wheel/dp/B00004L8IG)
They can still be found on eBay here or there.
Only problem I have with FS2... and it's only happened on FS2, is the mouse becomes
sluggish in game. I've got all the settings far as it'll go.. but it's like trying to
move through maple syrup compared to regular windows usage. Seems to happen to my
laptop touchpad as well, making it nearly useless...
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If there is, give me a link to it. NOW.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=63677.0
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If there is, give me a link to it. NOW.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=63677.0
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/FM2062~Quagmire-Posters.jpg)
Gotta give it a try as soon as the next two exams are over.
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Another option is to use PPJoy to fool the OS into treating your mouse as a virtual joystick.
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Doesn't work for me.
I'm putting the scripts in the following places:
data\tables\script_mouse-sct.tbm
data\text\mouse_script.cfg
The game starts and I can play it, but with no difference to the mouse behaviour.
When I leave the game, the following three errors are waiting for me:
Could not find index 'setControlMode' in type 'Base'
------------------------------------------------------------------
ADE Debug:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: (null)
Name of: (null)
Function type: (null)
Defined on: 0
Upvalues: 0
Source: (null)
Short source:
Current line: 0
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
LUA Stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
1: Userdata [Base]
2: String [setControlMode]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Error: Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL
File: 3ddraw.cpp
Line: 451
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
Error: Verify failure: Vbuf1 != NULL
File: 3ddraw.cpp
Line: 452
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
I read through the threads and there were two suggestions for this problem, but they weren't confirmed or solved in the thread:
1) The script doesn't like Vista/Win7 for some reason
2) Version 3.6.10 doesn't include a 'setControlMode' variable (whatever that means)
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Yeah, that's because that script was written for 3.6.11 or higher. You need a nightly build to use it.
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data\text\mouse_script.cfg
Also, are you sure that it shouldn't be "mouse_script.txt" ?
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> Also, are you sure that it shouldn't be "mouse_script.txt"
I tried both.
> Yeah, that's because that script was written for 3.6.11 or higher. You need a nightly build to use it.
Ah, I didn't see that. I thought the script was 'pre-final', and so was included in 3.6.10 final.
How safe is it to use a development build?
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How safe is it to use a development build?
Very. The nightly phase is actually over and we're now waiting for release candidates. And nightly builds have so far been pretty much as stable as official releases.
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The currently latest available nightly (revision 5862) is very stable indeed. It may also give you a slight FPS increase compared to 3.6.10.
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Very safe, I'm using it all the time.
Also, the latest nightly is quite stable, as it's the last one before final.
They're mostly getting rid of most obscure bugs now, not to mention cleaning up some conding stuff.
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I downloaded it, but can't find install instructions.
fred2_open_3_6_11d-20100131_r5862.exe
fs2_open_3_6_11d-20100131_r5862.exe
fred2_open_3_6_11r-20100131_r5862.exe
fs2_open_3_6_11r-20100131_r5862.exe
1)
What's the difference between the 'd' and 'r' versions?
Do I need to run all four executables?
2)
What will happen when I run these executables? Are they simply self-extractors?
3)
Can I back-up my current 3.6.10 install and switch back to it in the event of a FUBAR?
I did try to search for the answers to these questions, but I'm still having trouble navigating through the ton of info on the wiki and this website.
Cheers.
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*Sigh* There's a nightly build FAQ. You should have read it. Just a suggestion.
To install those, just drop them into the FS2 folder, and select them in the Launcher.
You ARE using the 5.5e Launcher, aren't you?
Seriously though, READ THE FAQ (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56458.0).
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1)
What's the difference between the 'd' and 'r' versions?
Do I need to run all four executables?
"r" stands for "release". A regular build, meant for playing.
"d" stands for debug". A debug build, meant for creating fs2_open.log files in problem cases and/or just debugging ships, missions or entire mods. Not meant for playing.
fred2_open_***** is FRED (FreeSpace Editor), an editor meant for creating missions and campaigns. fs2_open_**** is the game engine.
2)
What will happen when I run these executables? Are they simply self-extractors?
Preferrably open the Launcher, click "Browse", select fs2_open_3_6_11r-20100131_r5862.exe, apply the changes and run the game.
3)
Can I back-up my current 3.6.10 install and switch back to it in the event of a FUBAR?
You're just switching the version of the game engine you're using. Unless you remove fs2_open_3_6_10.exe yourself, it won't disappear anywhere.
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Thanks.
I understand now why the FAQ didn't have install instructions.
I thought I was going to have to 'build' the install somehow, like you would compile some code.
Although the error has disappeared, the script still makes no difference to gameplay.
In the thread, Renegade suggests that it only works with certain builds (although he doesn't mention which).
In other words, it worked circa August 2009, but then was broken by successive builds.
Think I'll just try to use the keyboard.
Cheers.
EDIT: I tried the Aug 2009 builds and still didn't get it working.
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Mouse works just fine in FS2 as well... unless you're on Mac.
You just need to be frugal about mouse movement. Moving the mouse faster than the ship can turn will not make the ship turn faster, it will just make you waste your table room faster resulting in more lifting of the mouse.
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I lose turning circle whenever I lift the mouse off the table.
Don't you?
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I lose turning circle whenever I lift the mouse off the table.
Don't you?
Yes, but I can turn eaven the most non-maneuverable bombers to point in any direction without lifting the mouse.
It's not gonna cut it for dogfighting, but you can use keyboard and mouse at the same time as well...
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Keyboard for turning, mouse for accuracy, honestly.
Pros and Cons :P
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Thanks all.
OK, so I put pitch on a couple of keys, and that does the job in a dogfight.
Cheers.
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I just map a couple of rotation keys to my mouse as well in order to do continuous turning when needed.
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Mouse works just fine in FS2 as well... unless you're on Mac.
You just need to be frugal about mouse movement. Moving the mouse faster than the ship can turn will not make the ship turn faster, it will just make you waste your table room faster resulting in more lifting of the mouse.
Couldn't have been said better :yes:
The relation between moving the mouse faster to turn your fighter faster and doesn't and moving the joystick faster to make your fighter turn faster and doesn't is not realized by all. Quite simply, a different interface can and will make people handle things in the game differently.
Being frugal with the mouse is the key, after that there's adjusting sensitivity for it just like the joystick.
Mouse and keyboard for dogfighting works just fine.
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Mouse support is superior in wing commander 3
And that game is a few years older than Freespace.
Freespace retail mouse support is just... well, ****ty.
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The relation between moving the mouse faster to turn your fighter faster and doesn't and moving the joystick faster to make your fighter turn faster and doesn't is not realized by all. Quite simply, a different interface can and will make people handle things in the game differently.
Being frugal with the mouse is the key, after that there's adjusting sensitivity for it just like the joystick.
Mouse and keyboard for dogfighting works just fine.
Sorry but I have to disagree.
Yes there is a maximum threshold in which the ship shouldn't turn faster than what is defined in the tables.
But some mods have a more arcade like feel going for them, and shouldn't feel like you're driving a U-haul truck instead
of a space superiority fighter, Arwing, or whatever.
Rolling a mouse ball or "swiping" in the case of traditional mouse users, 3/4th of the way across a desk that's 5 ft long, to move
all of 45 degrees in a turn... something doesn't add up.
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In my experience is that there is no way I can keep in a tight turn using a mouse, yet with a key assigned or with a joystick it is very easy to track enemy fighters in a tight turn; I can get them in the reticle almost immediately. It is *very* much easier.
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Sorry but I have to disagree.
Yes there is a maximum threshold in which the ship shouldn't turn faster than what is defined in the tables.
But some mods have a more arcade like feel going for them, and shouldn't feel like you're driving a U-haul truck instead
of a space superiority fighter, Arwing, or whatever.
Rolling a mouse ball or "swiping" in the case of traditional mouse users, 3/4th of the way across a desk that's 5 ft long, to move
all of 45 degrees in a turn... something doesn't add up.
That's all good, in other words you partially agree. Anyway, this thread does link to a script that supposedly makes the mouse handle like a joystick, and i am apt for checking that out. While i like using the mouse for playing the game and don't mind picking it up and moving it all of time, that script does sound like something that would make playing the game easier with the mouse. I'm guessing that the mouse script thingie just keeps your ship turning in a certain direction when you move the mouse in one direction without needing to constantly pick up and move the mouse to maintain? I'm asking the question because my fs2 install is in a different town right now.
In my experience is that there is no way I can keep in a tight turn using a mouse
So true. But, the mouse is too easy to play the game with. It's one reason i got drawn to it despite it's fall back when i didn't have a gamepad for a couple of years. This lead to my serious decline in skill with a joystick when playing the game.
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> I'm guessing that the mouse script thingie just keeps your ship turning in a certain direction
> when you move the mouse in one direction without needing to constantly pick up and move the mouse to maintain?
Yes, but I could only get it to work with a special build:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/vekkup/FS2/script_mouse.7z
from the thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=44634.msg1212153#msg1212153
Later in that thread Wanderer says he released a script that works with the main trunk from Aug 2009,
but I couldn't get it to work.
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S-99 - based on the description of the script... it functions very similarly
to Tachyon's alternate control mode for the mouse. Center wheel click usually
turned it on.
Here's it on video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU-pyjcjDHA&feature=related
It's a mouse, but the direction you swing the mouse it keeps going.
NOTE this is not "the script" - this is tachyon's alt mouse mode.
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Have you turned up the mouse sensitivity in-game?
It helps tremendously, despite not actually making the ship turn any faster. What it does is it makes it ramp up to it's full turning speed faster.
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If you're asking me, my sensitivity is all the way up.
Perhaps I'll make a video to compare with here in the future, so I can illustrate.
I've got a staff meeting tonight so probably not going to be today though.
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The problem I have with that is it will drastically unbalance multi, mouse will end up with equal-to-best-turning, and best accuracy.
While technically speaking that was possible with the joystick, it took a hell of a lot of skill / microing to pull it off, and a lot of practise with max sense zero deadzone.
Freelanceresque (tachyon's alt mouse mode) shouldn't be allowed by default.
And if it's not implemented properly, it'll be worse than the current mouse model.
If you don't wanna use a joystick and don't like the fact that the mouses clear and significant advantage is it's accuracy then use the bleeding keyboard.
It's not hard.
Edit - to clarify, using the edited existing script that I think......Nuke? created, is fine, because that will set alarm bells off when used in multi.
Incorporating it into 'vanilla' shouldn't be in the remit of SCP, imnsho.
I may be overstepping here, but this feels the same as if I were asking there to be a keyboard equivalent of 'mouse smoothing' added to the game.
If there were I /probably/ wouldn't use it (because I'm so used to pro-actively counter-adjusting before my shot is lined up anyway and it would just put me off) but technically speaking it could make the keyboard insanely easy to use at a high level.
The three mediums for controls are all divided equally (well, mostly, joystick enjoys a mild advantage at the very pinnacle of skill from SW experience but it is very small and there isn't much you can do about it in terms of code either).
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I'll take a look at the script later today.. Any suggestions on how it works are welcome
EDIT: Mouse script in wiki updated, make sure to read where the cfg file should go.
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If you're using a mouse, don't play FreeSpace 2 on a Mac.
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Mouse script wouldn't work for me before, now it does
But it feels like some kind of retarded joystick with it so i'll just stick with the normal mouse/keyboard control I guess
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Retarded joystick in what sense? It's too slippery? :confused:
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Retarded joystick in what sense? It's too slippery? :confused:
As in you don't point and click but you have to drag your crosshair onto the target
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Sounds like playing Freelancer with the keyboard only... :ick:
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So you want a mouse control where ship turns towards a point you clicked (at some distance) or what?
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So you want a mouse control where ship turns towards a point you clicked (at some distance) or what?
No I just want the current mouse control only far more sensitive so you can actually turn at full speed in close combat :p