Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ulundel on April 13, 2002, 09:33:10 am

Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 13, 2002, 09:33:10 am
...for my Third Twilight project. About 640x480 or less.
Since I have a problem texturing FS ships in 3ds max and I totally suck at Lightwave (but learnin') I can't do it myself.

Anyone please?   :)
Title: Re: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 13, 2002, 09:34:12 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
...for my Third Twilight project. About 640x480 or less.
Since I have a problem texturing FS ships in 3ds max and I totally suck at Lightwave (but learnin') I can't do it myself.

Anyone please?   :)


Shouldnt that be "lightwave totally sucks"?

heehee

can you be more specific about what you need?
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 13, 2002, 09:39:54 am
OK, a front page image (like array or DA)
Space, some planets, nebula background and a really big sun (color does not matter) Some shivan ships, some terran ships, heading "Thrd Twilight" and "enter"

As you can see it becomes a link.
:)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ryx on April 13, 2002, 09:48:01 am
Weird.

I am working on a render, that kinda fits that description.
I'll modify it to your specification and post it, when it's done.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 13, 2002, 09:50:18 am
Bloody Hell..
I want to make it, but I'm working on that animation, and it takes a good 10 minutes to load the blasted scene...
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 13, 2002, 09:55:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn
Bloody Hell..
I want to make it, but I'm working on that animation, and it takes a good 10 minutes to load the blasted scene...


Complete your animation. Hey, I'm not in a hurry. :)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 13, 2002, 09:55:58 am
that must be a hella big scene.

(or a 4000rpm hard drive?)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 13, 2002, 10:23:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
that must be a hella big scene.

(or a 4000rpm hard drive?)

A little from column a, a little from column b.
That and said HD is badly fragmented, and its a P3 600 (soon to be upgraded to an Athlon 1.1, thank GOD)..
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ryx on April 13, 2002, 01:25:18 pm
Here's my first try.

I had hoped to get more detail into the 'nebula'.
(http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/New/logo4.jpg)

Maybe I'll try again later, but not today, methinks.

Made in MAX.
Title: Re: Re: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 13, 2002, 03:30:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil


Shouldnt that be "lightwave totally sucks"?

heehee

can you be more specific about what you need?


lightwave whips max's ass at rendering and animation any day of the week and even for modeling there si very little you can do in max that you cant do in lightwave and lightwave has afew tricks up its sleeve that max doesn't too
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Setekh on April 14, 2002, 01:50:03 am
That's looks pretty nice, Ryx. :)
Title: Re: Re: Re: Need a professional render...
Post by: Nico on April 14, 2002, 06:55:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow


lightwave whips max's ass at rendering and animation any day of the week and even for modeling there si very little you can do in max that you cant do in lightwave and lightwave has afew tricks up its sleeve that max doesn't too


you changed your mind again? :p
LW beats Max at quality, but LW is so slow it better do a better job... Anyway, in Max, if you want great quality, you use Brazil or another free 3rd party renderer, and heres the only real advante of LW gone, and w/o paying a single additional buck.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 14, 2002, 07:54:22 am
LW does not beat MAX at quality if you know where to squeeze that tired old scanline renderer.

LW is working on a linear, antiquated architecture and the plugin code is worse than Softimage|3D!

Animation?  no friggen way.  MAXs weight envelope and IK/FK are way in advance of anything LW can offer.  

THe only..and i mean the ONLY thing LW offers that MAX doesnt out of the box is a volumetrics plugin of sorts and motion-blurred glow effects.

And as Venom said, just plug Brazil, Mental Ray, Entropy or PRman in and Lightwave jus got its' pants kicked.

I still think XSI leaves them all in the dust though (wonder why A|W dropped Mayas' price like a paralysed falcon?)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Redfang on April 14, 2002, 08:09:12 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
That's looks pretty nice, Ryx. :)

 
:nod::yes:
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 14, 2002, 08:24:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
LW does not beat MAX at quality if you know where to squeeze that tired old scanline renderer.

LW is working on a linear, antiquated architecture and the plugin code is worse than Softimage|3D!

Animation?  no friggen way.  MAXs weight envelope and IK/FK are way in advance of anything LW can offer.  

THe only..and i mean the ONLY thing LW offers that MAX doesnt out of the box is a volumetrics plugin of sorts and motion-blurred glow effects.

And as Venom said, just plug Brazil, Mental Ray, Entropy or PRman in and Lightwave jus got its' pants kicked.

I still think XSI leaves them all in the dust though (wonder why A|W dropped Mayas' price like a paralysed falcon?)

And none of that is going to make me stop using it. I've used MAX before, I hate it. If it takes a bit more work to get something out of LW that MAX can do easier, then I'll do it.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 14, 2002, 08:33:11 am
Im just arguing (in the friendliest possible way, of course!) whats technically superior in terms of architecture, out-o-the-box features and extensibility.  

I agree 100% that its the artist that makes the art though, not the program.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 14, 2002, 08:42:31 am
Agreed...
I'm not arguing which is better actually, just what I prefer...
I know that MAX is a lot faster rendering, if only I could get Lightwave with MAX's rendering..
Took me 8 hours to render a 10 second animation last night, and it wasnt very high res either.. (320x240) but I also had over 40 20k+ polygon objects in the scene too :/
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Stunaep on April 14, 2002, 08:56:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn

but I also had over 40 20k+ polygon objects in the scene too :/


Ow, I'm gonna need a wayyy faster comp, if I'm ever gonna get to that.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 08:59:15 am
lightwave 7 has nonliniar animation ok its to as fast as max but the quality is better

and and it come out of the box with grass and fur support the plug ins??? whats wrong with them never had any trouble at all and with them just about anything is possible i have a few very nice ones indeed but i rarely use them since i'm still doing pretty basic modeling

and well rendering i dont use the plug ins very offen cause i not even worked out most of the basic features etc

and a final note lightwave is used in far more tv and film effects etc than max :p

but that said overall i think there is little difference between the programs there is very little that can be done in one that cant be done in the other even if the techniques are different all full comercial version for only £1000 thats a good deal max is over £2000
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Darkage on April 14, 2002, 09:02:10 am
I had that whit my animation, took me 12 hours to render.. I used just like Thorn high poly models. When the part came where the wings got shot off it took the thing almost 2 min per frame to render...
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 14, 2002, 09:07:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
lightwave 7 has nonliniar animation ok its to as fast as max but the quality is better



I didnt mean nonlinear animation, i meant nonlinear nondestructive workflows (IE, modifier stacks etc.)

Quote

and and it come out of the box with grass and fur support the plug ins??? whats wrong with them never had any trouble at all and with them just about anything is possible i have a few very nice ones indeed but i rarely use them since i'm still doing pretty basic modeling

Shag:Hair or shave an a haircut (which i know lightwave had first), but plug it into lightwaves renderer and you have a match made in hell!  

Quote

and a final note lightwave is used in far more tv and film effects etc than max :p


TV yes.  Film, nope.  Games, MAX rules the roost.  And even in TV and Film LW is not used for more complex effects, thats' Maya territory (which I can't stand...really ropey package, that)

In terms of pricing.  Discreet are really pissing alot of people off by not budging their pricing, they have a great market position but they'll lose it to Maya and Soft if they dont react, and soon.  The product is good but the price is bad, specially in light of Mayas' recent price drop.  Not that Maya is much good without 50 MEL scripters to help you do something.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 10:43:01 am
cant say much about thsoe hair plug ins but sasquach works flawlessly

and as for animiating in lightwave its very easy some people complain that is another program but i dont mind at all you jsut ahve both running and any update you amke are automatically transfered to layout

and the modifier stack well might be useful but its easy enough to live without like i said you just have to use different techniques to achieve the same results and with lightwave being half the price and basically being jsut as capable then its the obvious choice (if you not using warez versions that is)

i have used max and i admit it certainly is a good program but it jsut wasn't for me lightwave works better for me so i can get closer to my concepts with lightwave than max sooooo...

and yes i agree maya is crap although i never really tried that hard

soft image xsi 2 well i getting that in afew days but i heard nothign but good about it except that its abit complex but that is a good thing when you need it
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 14, 2002, 10:44:46 am
XSI is damn complex but the way its designed makes so much sense.

Im waiting for me experience CD so I can learn the darned thing...almost been 6 weeks now- ARrgh!
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 14, 2002, 12:19:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil

TV yes.  Film, nope.  Games, MAX rules the roost.  And even in TV and Film LW is not used for more complex effects

Pearl Harbour, Driven, Star Trek, to name a few....
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 12:28:20 pm
go to the lightwave site or is it the newtek one cant remember

but think its lightwave so www.lightwave3d.com and they have  awhole list of films it was used in and tis a big list too
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Thorn on April 14, 2002, 12:59:53 pm
http://www.lightwave3d.com/product/projects_list.html
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: CP5670 on April 14, 2002, 01:47:15 pm
I personally prefer 3DSMax out of those two due to its interface; I don't really like the LW interface, which is better than that of TS but not up to par with Max IMHO. Max feels like a standard windows program for the most part, letting new users jump right in, while LW has a more creative interface but one that is also harder to learn and get used to. If I had to pay for it though, I would definitely get LW due to the price difference.

BTW on a side note, does anyone know if there is a way to make surfaces based on math functions in either program?
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 01:52:57 pm
well strange i instictly prefered the lightwave interface the max ones i dont know was just not as user friendly - and to top it off the max view panels are low res which alwasy ennoyed me
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Nico on April 14, 2002, 02:08:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
well strange i instictly prefered the lightwave interface the max ones i dont know was just not as user friendly - and to top it off the max view panels are low res which alwasy ennoyed me


nah, it's not strange, it's you :p
and you should look at setup tabs sometimes.
Plus from what I've noticed, 3dsmax is at the same resolution than your desktop, so if it's low res, blame your PC :p
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 02:12:55 pm
well if its the same as my pc there somethign wrong cause i got my res nice and high and in lightwave its perfect =)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Nico on April 14, 2002, 02:20:49 pm
well, somethings definitively wrong, my Max is at 1152*864 :D
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: CP5670 on April 14, 2002, 02:29:37 pm
That's the same resolution I have it on and it looks fine to me; just like any other program, since I am using dark color schemes for both max and windows. ;)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 02:30:04 pm
its not teh buttons or anything its just the lines and the points and stuff res is low makes it far harder to judge acurate postions and complex shapes and stuff - maya 4 was the same
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 02:31:51 pm
my desktop is currently at 1280x960 but about that when i last tried max
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Odyssey on April 14, 2002, 02:41:29 pm
I'm working on a render for this.
So far:
- Ravana
- Orion
- 3 beams
- Sun
- Nebula

I hope the lack of planets is alright. Will post an image soon, before I get the explosions and text in for the final.
______________
Odyssey
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: an0n on April 14, 2002, 02:42:45 pm
**** man. You type slow as hell.

Oh and it's:

and then a closing list tag.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Nico on April 14, 2002, 04:32:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
its not teh buttons or anything its just the lines and the points and stuff res is low makes it far harder to judge acurate postions and complex shapes and stuff - maya 4 was the same


you have to... bah, dunno, your PC is screwed up, maybe.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 14, 2002, 04:47:10 pm
post a screeny of max and i will tell you if its like mine was

wire frame obviously
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ryx on April 14, 2002, 11:34:38 pm
Here you go (http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/MAX.jpg).

A fairly fresh installed MAX.
I apologize for the filesize :o
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Stunaep on April 15, 2002, 01:41:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
post a screeny of max and i will tell you if its like mine was

wire frame obviously


Wouldn't it be...uhhh.... more... logical to post a screenie of yours?
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 15, 2002, 01:46:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep


Wouldn't it be...uhhh.... more... logical to post a screenie of yours?

The needs of the one proved more profitable than the needs of the many.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Nico on April 15, 2002, 06:06:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ryx
Here you go (http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/MAX.jpg).

A fairly fresh installed MAX.
I apologize for the filesize :o


yay, that's what I got too, tho I saved some space, and put small icons rather than big ones.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ryx on April 15, 2002, 06:08:53 am
Small icons... hmm... I'll have to look into that.:)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 15, 2002, 09:02:50 am
KMN - is there something screwy in your OpenGL setup?

If you're running a geforce card with Maya, MAX or Soft in OpenGL mode (d3d is just laughable, i hate it!) you need to turn the detail right up.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Odyssey on April 15, 2002, 12:12:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Sh*t man. You type slow as hell.

Oh and it's:
  • Ravana
  • Orion

and then a closing list tag. [/B]


Yes, I know how to do lists.
Unfortunately, I happened to be on the phone at the time, and typing with one hand isn't that fun. Plus I couldn't be bothered. That may also explain why I was typing slowly - wouldn't you type slowly with one hand?

Unless you're referring to the way I first replied half-way down the second page. That's because I actually started working on the scene before making claims, so as to not make false ones.

Happy?

N.B. - You'll notice I censored the quote. Even though I'm most likely the youngest person on this board (13), and I don't mind swearing much, I'm sure other people may.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: KillMeNow on April 15, 2002, 01:01:58 pm
yahhhhhhh thats what mine looked like but there is no objects in there and its then i think the low res look effect becomes apparent but either way those lines are still to thick
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: wEvil on April 15, 2002, 01:05:11 pm
Turned off anti-aliased lines?
 
that could be it.
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 16, 2002, 07:34:38 am
Max rules. PERIOD.
It took me about 2 weeks to understand max but I still can't do anything with lightwave.

And my problem with textures is gone so I'll do my own try.

Tnx everyone  :nod:
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Setekh on April 16, 2002, 07:43:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
Max rules. PERIOD.
It took me about 2 weeks to understand max but I still can't do anything with lightwave.

And my problem with textures is gone so I'll do my own try.

Tnx everyone  :nod:


Gee, that sounds pretty good. :) If you're getting somewhere with it, get some WIPs done and post 'em up for us. :)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Styxx on April 16, 2002, 07:56:53 am
Yeah, do that. We might be able to help, you know? :D

(silently prepares a new whip-o-matic™ for another render slave...)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 16, 2002, 08:06:54 am
Sure. :nod:

*opens 3dsmax. kicks lightwave out of his PC*
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Styxx on April 16, 2002, 08:12:42 am
w00t! Another full convert! All praise! :D
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Ulundel on April 16, 2002, 08:21:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
Another full convert!  


Whaddaya mean by that? :)
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Setekh on April 16, 2002, 08:26:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
w00t! Another full convert! All praise! :D


What, is this part of The Plan™ as well? :D
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Darkage on April 16, 2002, 08:29:33 am
We are all profensional renders whit lightwave :D;7
Title: Need a professional render...
Post by: Styxx on April 16, 2002, 08:36:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
What, is this part of The Plan™ as well? :D


Everything is part of The Plan™, even the things you can't notice, or never would think about. ;)