Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: WMCoolmon on April 15, 2002, 01:43:22 am
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Just curious... :D
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You forgot Blender! :mad2:
Blender isn't too powerful of a renderer though - I've heard it models pretty good (like Max) but I don't really know as I've never really gotten around to using it... :p
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Which is the best all-round modelling/rendering program?
The one I prefer to use. Period.
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SPIRIT :)
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Originally posted by Thunder
SPIRIT :)
Damn, should have read that before posting,
STUPID! :mad: :headz:
STUPID! :mad: :headz:
STUPID! :mad: :headz:
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SPIRIT isn't a modellers, AFAIK.
As for the topic, it comes down to a matter of preference. It's never 'which is best', but 'which do you like best'. There is no such thing as a 'best' program, merely one that suits you the best.
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I use MAX. I like MAX. I can do things in MAX.
I have lightwave, but I haven't used it (much).
Like Shrike said - It comes down to the one you like best.
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Lightwave is da best imho.....;)
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warning, incoming flame war...
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Originally posted by Shrike
SPIRIT isn't a modellers, AFAIK.
As for the topic, it comes down to a matter of preference. It's never 'which is best', but 'which do you like best'. There is no such thing as a 'best' program, merely one that suits you the best.
No! MAX is the best! Period!
Okay, okay, so it's just the one I like. Sue me. :D :p
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XSI is the best.
Modelling isnt just about dealing with polygons, its also how easy it is to change them to SubDees, to NURBS, and back again.
A great modeller should be so flexible that you can model in any way you want to and still come out with a decent, clean mesh.
XSI does this all the time. I have seen some nice looking LW meshes - i've also seen a helluva lot of horrible ones!
MAX is OK so long as you use it right. Its quite easy to get into a horrible mess though if you lose concentration.
My Vote goes to XSI. as usual. Why dont you change my title to "Softimage Fanboy" or something :p
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Cinema 4D XL
Easy to use, very good quality, fast... I like :nod:
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Originally posted by Gortef
Cinema 4D XL
Easy to use, very good quality, fast... I like :nod:
You're joking, right?
The best program is SoftImage XSI by faaaaaar. But it's obscenely expensive, infinitely complex, and far to expensive for any pirate to bother warez-ifying. Thus 3D Studio MAX becomes the non-professionals program of choice.
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Lightwave.
Sure its not perfect, but its by far the easiest to use.
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Originally posted by an0n
Thus 3D Studio MAX becomes the non-professionals program of choice.
You do realize that there are top of the line hollywood movies that used only MAX for the effects, right? :wtf:
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Yes.
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Originally posted by an0n
The best program is SoftImage XSI by faaaaaar. But it's obscenely expensive, infinitely complex, and far to expensive for any pirate to bother warez-ifying. Thus 3D Studio MAX becomes the non-professionals program of choice.
Wanna make a bet? I can have it downloaded within a day or two.
Latest version is 2.0.1, right? You want the tutorials too?
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Originally posted by Executor
Wanna make a bet? I can have it downloaded within a day or two.
Latest version is 2.0.1, right? You want the tutorials too?
My point was that 3DsMAX is everywhere and XSI is harder to find (and even harder to find an uncorrupted, non-passworded, non-virused copy).
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Warez is bad, 'mmkay?
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im clicking TS just to make you mad.
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GMAX is good for modelling, its free too.
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LONG LIVE TRUESPACE!!!!! (not)
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dear god i hope those votes for truespace are both jokes
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Warez is the last vestige of the internet that remains completely non-commercial. Exceptine, quite obviously, har-core pornography, warez is the enemy of the evil international capitalist structure that is completely screwing two-thirds of the world for only minor benefits to a handful, and no tangible benefits at all to a majority. Consumerism is bad, 'mmkay?
OK, so I don't really care about any of that, I just want free stuff. Still.:D
Ray Dream is my native program, and the one I am fairly godly at. If you know the ins and outs, it can do stuff few other programs can, and considering how old it is its render effects are impressive (better than MAX or Carrara, in some respects). It's not flashy and doesn't contain a whole lot of goodies only available in it, but it's got the same advantages that, say, FreeSpace has over EOC- it uses what it has stunningly well, and I only rarely feel the need to use anything else. I've never actually learned to use a good portion of the program (the little documentation I have is terrible), and I still get better results than with MAX. That dual modeling system really takes the cake.
When I do use something else, I use 3DS Max 4, which is, I suppose, better in many respects. It takes a little getting used to, and some of the controls are awkward (really, really awkward, in the case of detailed nonprimitives modeling), but it has a very nice setup, a good interface (even if it won't bloody stay configured), and, best of all, is much, much faster on the modeling screen. Infinitely faster. As in, I can move the camera, and see the models as I move it. WOAH!:D
Actually, best of all is that its files are a fairly universal standard. I can port from anywhere, to anywhere, and it comes out more or less fine.
Lightwave- feh. I suppose I'm missing something, but its modeling prog is the most contrary piece of crap I have ever seen, including TrueSpace's. It makes an excellent renderer, and its volumetrics really are second to none, but I'd rather have my eyeballs gnawed out by small children than use the modeler.
In Carrara, I know I'm not missing anything. Nothing I've seen quite comes close to the lighting effects it has (lookit the pretty lens flare it gave me on my page for an example), and the abundance of very nice special tools (including a cusomizable particle generator, volumetric fog approaching Lightwave's, and a built-in terrain generator) make it fantastic for render work. Unfortunately, its modeler is simply pathetic. Which came as twice a dissapointment, considering that it's the descendant of Ray Dream, which is, in my opinion, roughly equal to 3DS MAX in modeling excellence, unless you really need beveling tools. Carrara has only one thing that it really stands out in, though. And that's procedural textures. Dozens of 'em, and all of them are delicious, provided you use them the right way.
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modeling in max is ao much harder than in lightwave - lightwave is user friendly
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Oh- is THAT why I can't even get a frickin' CUBE??? Or a LINE, for that matter!:rolleyes:
:D
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Originally posted by KillMeNow
dear god i hope those votes for truespace are both jokes
Lt.Narol said this crazy stuff:
LONG LIVE TRUESPACE!!!!! (not)
I 541d +H15:
im clicking TS just to make you mad.
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3DS Max seems to work the best for me, but I am still really a newbie to both modeling and rendering. I'll post more thoughts later in the future when I figure out how to do something useful in it. :D
BTW anyone remember the Polytron32 program for Descent 2? That was what I used to make my first models when I started off with modeling back in 1997; level/mission design tore me away from modeling for a few years though, so I am now trying to learn the stuff again. :D
My point was that 3DsMAX is everywhere and XSI is harder to find (and even harder to find an uncorrupted, non-passworded, non-virused copy).
That's true; I have seen XSI in one or two places but it is not nearly as abundant as Max.
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Originally posted by KillMeNow
modeling in max is ao much harder than in lightwave - lightwave is user friendly
no
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Originally posted by KillMeNow
dear god i hope those votes for truespace are both jokes
Don't get me started on that again, just like last night:D :p
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I think it might depend on how you think about modeling... I can't make heads or tails of the LightWave modeler, most response I ever got was that the computer locked up. On the flip side, I think a 6-year-old could handle basic aspects of MAX.
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As a newbie modeler, that was my first reaction to the two programs as well... :D
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What Shrike said.
Originally posted by Shrike:
As for the topic, it comes down to a matter of preference. It's never 'which is best', but 'which do you like best'. There is no such thing as a 'best' program, merely one that suits you the best.
What I said.
Originally posted by Mikhael:
The one I prefer to use. Period.
I prefer Lightwave and Truespace (yes Truespace. BITE ME.). Thus they are the BEST.
wEvil prefers Softimage XSI. For him, it is the best.
Untouchable prefers Max (gods help the poor bastard). For him it is the best.
Lightwave sucks if it doesn't work for you. Max sucks if it doesn't work for you. Softimage sucks if it doesn't work for you. That's all there is to it.
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cube in light wave press X not x then drag it out done
lightwave rules hehehe......for me
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"bites Mikhael, and then wait for him to be pissed off and start a flamewar against him, but decides that this time he won't follow " :D
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Originally posted by KillMeNow
cube in light wave press X not x then drag it out done
lightwave rules hehehe......for me
cube in max press any shortcut a cube is ( don't remember ) then drag it out done.
what's the difference?
oh, also, for those who don't like shortcuts ( some have short memories, like me ): right click, click primitive, then cube, drag it, done.
:ha:
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Mik: ...And I'm sure all types of, I dunno, car are equal, and some only better as a matter of opinion as well.:rolleyes:
In other words: no. Some progs are decidedly better than others. There will always be dissent, those who prefer Buicks to Lamborghinis, but it doesn't just boil down to preference. Some progs suck. Some don't. We might not be able to decisively determine what is the BEST one from the handful of mostly uneducated, moderately experienced amateurs (many of whom own only one prog), and there might be no POINT to this exercise, but your premise is just silly.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
...but your premise is just silly.
My premise is the closest thing to objective reality you'll get in a highly subjective thread like 'which X is best?'.
The best modeller/rendering package is the one that does what you want it to do, when you want it to do it, the way you want it done. If it doesn't meet those criteria, it can hardly be said to be the 'best', can it? For me, that's Lightwave. For wEvil, that's XSI. For Untouchable its Max (sorry if I got anyone's preferences here mixed up).
You mention Lamborghini vs Buick? For what? Who in their right minds would have a Lamborghini for anything remotely to do with transportation? Sure, a Lamborghini might be prettier, but you really don't want to drive it to work every day (mileage sucks, engine is too loud, too damn expensive to maintain). In short, a Lamborghini doesn't do what I want it to do, the way I want it to do it, when I want to do it.
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Mike, first rule:
don't pay attention to what Stryke9 says.
I wonder how old is he. 14, 15 I'd say. Of course he'll give a ford for a diablo any day :p ( I would too, but to sell the car and get a cheaper one and the assurance that comes with it, plus some non car related extra along with it, but that's another matter).
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Bah. I don't personally dig sports cars, they're midlife-crisis vessels. I was using an example so you'd get the point (BTW, I have a Buick, it drinks gasoline faster than a partyful of frat boys at 2 AM, has currently decayed to the point where it is only marginally functional as a car due to high maintenance, and is fairly quiet except when yet another engine part detaches. Speak of what you know, my friend)- I dig junk cars, which I suppose is even less 'mature'- as in "I'm cooler than you because I live in my mom's basement and it's got cable TV, and cable TV rawks!!" mature.:D
And yes. The best modeling package is the most functional. But how many progs have you sampled, before coming to your preference?
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I like Rhino.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
And yes. The best modeling package is the most functional. But how many progs have you sampled, before coming to your preference?
Max, Maya, Lightwave, Truespace, every 'budget' 3d package I could find, innumerable japanese 3d packages, and way too many CAD/CAM packages to list.
Of these, I have professional experience with CAD/CAM and professional training with CAD/CAM and Lightwave. I will be taking a class on Max in the fall, as well as one on Maya.
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*looks around* :nervous:
I like 3D Explorer! :D
Oh, wait, that isn't a modeller. ;)
*runs*
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:snipe:
you were too slow, sorry Corsair :D
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I've got a hole in my head that's gushing blood but I'm still alive!
*hides*
(http://members.cox.net/kancho3/Smilies_Angry/hidesbehindsofa.gif)
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seriously, Truespace isnt all bad, its more comprehensive than Lightwave, max, and blender combined. Now I'm sure those three are all great programs, i just cant make heads or tails of them. Rhino and Truespace atleast are simplistic in their use.
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The reason I like XSI is because its one of the newest packages out there, and while it has bugs to be ironed out it will prove, in the next two or three years, to be more hot-pluggable than any existing architecture will be.
Thats why it got my vote - hell, Im still waiting for some decent tutorials or an affordable training center to open up in the UK so I can DO SOMETHING with the damn thing.
But theres' so many levels of argument here that you just can't come to an objective conclusion.
Discussion over, i suppose.
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What's the difference between Maya and Softimage? I heard both were high-end and very expensive.
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Maya is the major one used in film atm.
However, its out-of-the-box capabilities are extremely disappointing to say the least. Its main points of attraction are a large feature set, the MEL scripting language (which is the core of the whole thing, really. Means if its not in there, you can code it) and its fast openGL viewport performance. Oh..and the fact A|W just dropped its price like a $2 hoe.
Softimage is attractive because of....everything. Fast openGL performance, Mental ray, Realtime shader support. Soft field two products - XSI which is the new one, and 3D which is almost 15 years old now. Soft|3D is damn scary - dont try to use it because it will put you off 3D for ever.
Anywya...its too late to write a proper review but stick around a few graphics boards and you'll get the general idea. XSI is technically superior but market-wise has alot of catching up to do, still.
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wEvil, I think you like XSI. I'm not sure, but I'm getting this feeling, you know?
:lol:
I stick with Lightwave mostly. Why? Modelling. I'm not an animator. I'm not a CG artist. Modelling is a hobby for me and one I enjoy. I don't need the crazy extra stuff that's in Maya or XSI (though I'll play with them whenever I get a chance).
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Originally posted by an0n
You're joking, right?
nope. I'm quite new in 3D modeling world and C4D was easy to get into... anyway, there is a best software for everyone, I think C4D is best for me :nod:
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GMAX to the Max ppl. Once the download finishes..
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GMAX is for modelling only, though.
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Well, TrueSpace can't be ALL bad... I must say it's a great deal easier to model in than LightWave, and I've seen great pro renders done with it- something that Maya, say, has failed to yield as far as I have seen. Essentially, it's an inaccurate, cheapass prog for those who don't mind a little less control for a little more simplicity and (in some areas) versatility. Frankly, using it drives me up the wall but that's largely because I haven't the foggiest idea how to use many aspects of it while the parts I look for in a modeling program either don't exist or are designed in some fashion which makes them all but useless to me. And it scrambles non-COB models. But I can see people using it as a prog of choice. Lightwave Modeler I can't really; earlier versions of TrueSpace I can't really; POVray and other textual modelers I can't at all... But I judge by results, when I lack a fair degree of mastery over a prog. Lightwave has a history of producing 100% photorealistic renders (if you haven't seen one, you wouldn't believe, it's a religious experience) when in the hands of pros; TrueSpace has produced some gimmicky but nice goodies... All are good for their specific things, though- I'd never use TrueSpace because I'm an accuracy modeler who digs angles and full control over what I'm doing, but it's nice for semi-organics. Lightwave and Carrara are excellent renderers and special-effects processors, but it takes a brave man to model in them (Carrara doubly so); Maya is good (OK, so not in my opinion, but I'm being fair), but only if you're a programmer as well. Ray Dream and 3DS MAX have a fairly limited reportoire of special effects and filters, but give you virtually unlimited power on the modeling end. This sort of topic can help you in finding the best thing for each job you want to. There, you've got a reason not to be objective, happy now?:p
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3D modeling is definitely way over my head. I install Softimage and the first thing it does is complain that my resolution is too low. Shut the hell up! I only have a 17-inch monitor, what do you expect? And I still haven't figured what the difference between "XSI Advanced" & "XSI Essential" is.
Who knew a simple torus could have so many options? Even the Render menu has WAY too many choices for my taste. I also added a cylinder, but when I select Render Preview - All Layers, only the torus shows up.
I tried looking at the help file, but I got the impression that it was designed for people that had at least some idea of what they're doing. :D
I think I'll stick to playing games, not creating them.
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3D modeling is definitely way over my head. I install Softimage and the first thing it does is complain that my resolution is too low. Shut the hell up! I only have a 17-inch monitor, what do you expect? And I still haven't figured what the difference between "XSI Advanced" & "XSI Essential" is.
Who knew a simple torus could have so many options? Even the Render menu has WAY too many choices for my taste. I also added a cylinder, but when I select Render Preview - All Layers, only the torus shows up.
I tried looking at the help file, but I got the impression that it was designed for people that had at least some idea of what they're doing. :D
That's what I thought about 3DS max as well. If only they just let you enter an equation for the Torus instead of all those weird extrusion options... :D
Although the tutorials are pretty good, I must say. They don't assume you know too much, so I was able to complete the game modeling tutorial pretty easily.