Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Snail on April 04, 2010, 02:18:33 pm
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IT'S DEREK SMART'S BIRTHDAY!!!
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EDIT for new readers: this thread was split from the Easter thread.
I got kicked out of Sunday school a great many times over this day.
Huh, a post vanished. Perhaps iamzack felt it was best not to douse everything in gasoline.
In celebration of the holiday I read up a bit on the history of Easter and Easter-related traditions. If you're interested in the historical aspects of the holiday as opposed to the theological ones, this (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm) is an interesting touch on the Horus/Jesus parallels iamzack mentioned (by way of trolling - actually it may have been Mithras, but I don't remember), and the site (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm) seems to be making a fair stab at balance. Some poking around didn't seem to turn up any huge ideological leanings one way or the other on the site, but it's sometimes hard to tell.
Again, this is probably of interest to people who aren't Christian but celebrate Easter as a secular holiday (much like Christmas.) I intend it only as some history, akin to studies of Homer's life or the nine cities of Troy or whatever. I didn't know about a lot of this stuff and found it pretty cool.
Seems to go to show that a lot of religions share these elements. I guess you could take that as evidence of a common divine inspiration, if you were so inclined, or at least as grounds for us to all get along a little better than we do.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter), as always, is pretty good; I didn't know about the close links between Easter and Passover and assumed it was just a coincidence.
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happy mithras day
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Yeah, common divine inspiration being the birth of Derek Smart.
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It sent shockwaves through the timeline, man.
Presumably we've discovered why the Council of Nicaea decided to put Easter right here.
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I am catholic, if this gets shanted, then we know this people are not turning the other cheek.
Why would you separate from others? why aren't you accepting people?
Why aren't you on this day specially following the teachings of Jesus? i can't understand, i am not a good catholic, but this is just... ah well, god forgives all as he isn't the wrathful god of the old testament anymore, because, like a local author said, he gained a mother :)
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For those reading who haven't touched the other thread, it was a post about the history of Jesus and the history of Easter from a mythographic standpoint, akin to a study of Troy for those who don't believe Homer was an actual historian or a history of Mohammed for those who don't see him as the Messenger of God.
I apologize if it offended anyone. I thought it was genuinely interesting and a way for non-Christians to be involved in the discussion.
So I was filing it under post something cool about Easter
as I found the history really fascinating.
I'm not iamzack over here, I thought I'd get benefit of the doubt.
Anyway, the gist of it was, a lot of religious figures (Horus, Mithras, Krishna) share the general archetypes of Christ and even some of the particulars of the story, which presents a cheerful sort of commonality that one could take as either an indication of common divine inspiration or at least grounds for us all to get along a little better than we do.
Whether you're religious or not, the parallels between these faiths are fascinating, and in a sense lend credit to all of them for speaking to some sort of common truth, whether factual or metaphorical.
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It's not a question of offense. It's a question of appropriateness. (TBH I wasn't offended, but I knew that such posts would drag the thread off topic.)
There's a time and a place for discussions about Horus and Mithras. That thread isn't it.
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Okay. Should we stay out of the thread if we're not believers, then? I've always enjoyed Easter as a secular holiday, a celebration of spring and renewal, and a chance to bring families together, but if this thread is specifically about the religious component then that aspect may not fit here.
And the history of the holiday fascinates me (reasoning in the post above, probably edited in after you read it.)
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this (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm) is an interesting touch on the Horus/Jesus parallels iamzack mentioned (by way of trolling - actually it may have been Mithras, but I don't remember), and the site (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm) seems to be making a fair stab at balance.
From the Jesus/Horus thingy:
Foster father: Seb, (a.k.a. Jo-Seph). 4/ Joseph.
Joseph is the English pronunciation of Yosef in Hebrew, and read on now, I've got a little surprize later on.
Up next:
Conception: By a virgin. There is some doubt about this matter (Horus)/ By a virgin. (Jesus)
Here's wikipedia on Horus:
Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[3][4] and used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[5] to conceive her son. In another version of the story, Isis was impregnated by divine fire.[6] Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and whom she knew would want to kill their son.[6] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.
So now we know that Osiris was post mortem Horus's father. Who was Seb, aka Jo-Seph?
He's Geb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geb), the father of Osiris, and therefore Horus's grandpa. The original Egyptian [name] was "Gebeb"/"Kebeb", meaning probably: 'weak one', perhaps:'lame one'. Seb or Keb were mispronounciations from translations from the early and mid 1900's.
Pretty much what we see in the Bible, huh?
But wait, there's more: http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm
The most popular story of Horus is the one in which he grows to manhood to avenge the death of his father Osiris by battling against his cruel uncle Set. In many writings, he is said to continue to battle Set daily to ensure the safety of the world.
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It was titled "He is risen"; it's pretty specifically about the religious component. :)
It's the same situation as if someone created a thread celebrating Washington's Birthday, and then someone else came in trying to discussion about how Washington owned slaves and how he's not intrinsically a better person than anyone else in history. The guy may have a point, but he shouldn't be crashing the thread to make it.
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Wooops, sorry...
didn't open this thread earlier.
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It was titled "He is risen"; it's pretty specifically about the religious component. :)
It's the same situation as if someone created a thread celebrating Washington's Birthday, and then someone else came in trying to discussion about how Washington owned slaves and how he's not intrinsically a better person than anyone else in history. The guy may have a point, but he shouldn't be crashing the thread to make it.
Well, in that situation the guy's being a dick by trying to tear down the figure in question (Washington.)
I'm just interested in learning more.
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baaawww
i'm pretty sick of religious holidays. everything is closed just because a bunch of people claim some magic thing happened some time ago.
i can't go a week without my life being interfered with by crazy religious people.
need to cash a check? **** me, it's sunday, and it's a sin to work on sunday or something stupid like that
dshfliuadbhdo
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Come on guys it's DSmart's birthday can't we all be friends for once?
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That was the intent, but somehow a post on history has lead to threadsplits and all this for reasons I'm not totally sure I understand or am comfortable with. I'm far from an aggressive atheist and I take some degree of pride in getting along well with all faiths.
I can understand that Goob would feel targeted on these forums, but targeted by an upstanding gentleman like yours truly is stretching it.
I ARE BEMUSED. However, let's just roll on.
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because god forbid we call a christian holiday stupid
baaawww our savior bawwwwww
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Today, I ate a chocolate egg.
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My grandma sent me some chocolate stuff (a rabbit, an egg, misc. candies and such) for Easter. Gotta love care packages from family. :)
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(http://media.fukung.net/images/25745/exkfy.jpg)
spamthread
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That was the intent, but somehow a post on history has lead to threadsplits and all this for reasons I'm not totally sure I understand or am comfortable with. I'm far from an aggressive atheist and I take some degree of pride in getting along well with all faiths.
I can understand that Goob would feel targeted on these forums, but targeted by an upstanding gentleman like yours truly is stretching it.
As I said above Battuta, I wasn't offended by your post, but I split it off because I figured it would drag the thread off-topic. Yet the thread moderation seemed to cause more problems than it solved. :blah: I was hoping to have a nice reasonable thread without the flamewars that usually pop up.
Your post in retrospect is much more reasonable than those coming from certain other people (*cough* iamzack). I wouldn't mind merging it back, but it might make the thread even more confusing.
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http://media.fukung.net/images/25745/exkfy.jpg
Oh God forgive me! I didn't know! I didn't know!
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That was the intent, but somehow a post on history has lead to threadsplits and all this for reasons I'm not totally sure I understand or am comfortable with. I'm far from an aggressive atheist and I take some degree of pride in getting along well with all faiths.
I can understand that Goob would feel targeted on these forums, but targeted by an upstanding gentleman like yours truly is stretching it.
As I said above Battuta, I wasn't offended by your post, but I split it off because I figured it would drag the thread off-topic. Yet the thread moderation seemed to cause more problems than it solved. :blah: I was hoping to have a nice reasonable thread without the flamewars that usually pop up.
Your post in retrospect is much more reasonable than those coming from certain other people (*cough* iamzack). I wouldn't mind merging it back, but it might make the thread even more confusing.
I appreciate that.
The thread was a little flame-baity as it was, though. Titling it as you did, and opening with a Bible passage...a little ostentatious, don't you think? Not wrong, by any means, but a little provocative.
It's a statement of your beliefs, which is perfectly fine. But imagine if someone, let's say Turambar, posted a thread which said 'There is no god' and opened with a passage from Dawkins - not attacking anyone, just stating an atheist belief. And then removed all posts that weren't in agreement. It'd be a little weird.
All in all, I'd have been much more comfortable if it was called 'Happy Easter!' and the opening post was along the lines of 'I'm giving thanks to Jesus who died for my sins. I hope everyone else has a great Easter' or somesuch.
It just felt a little exclusive, somehow. "I'm Christian. Got a problem with it?"
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I know I took one look and had a Quantum Leap 'oh boy!' moment...
Don't have any problem with its existence, I'm up for a chocolate egg regardless of the symbiology, but I did have a concern it was going to be a high-maintenance thread ;)
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@iamzack
WIN
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Hi, i'm Colonel Aken Tigh Dekker and I associate Easter with chocolate eggs and little else. . . . Ok bunny girls too.
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It's a statement of your beliefs, which is perfectly fine. But imagine if someone, let's say Turambar, posted a thread which said 'There is no god' and opened with a passage from Dawkins - not attacking anyone, just stating an atheist belief. And then removed all posts that weren't in agreement. It'd be a little weird.
It would be very weird. Tura's not a mod. :o
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Political power for personal gain?
That's never happened before. . . . . .
<sarcasmtag>
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The thread was a little flame-baity as it was, though. Titling it as you did, and opening with a Bible passage...a little ostentatious, don't you think? Not wrong, by any means, but a little provocative.
Uh, no? It's a celebration of the day, and an invitation for others who share that belief to post.
It's a statement of your beliefs, which is perfectly fine. But imagine if someone, let's say Turambar, posted a thread which said 'There is no god' and opened with a passage from Dawkins - not attacking anyone, just stating an atheist belief. And then removed all posts that weren't in agreement. It'd be a little weird.
That's a debate, not a celebration, because there's no "Atheism Day" to celebrate. Posting a thesis and then arguing about it is, de facto, starting a debate; and if he started removing contrary posts, I would say he has a problem.
If, on the other hand, Turambar had posted a thread celebrating one of his holidays, I would say he has the right to limit participation to those who were also celebrating.
All in all, I'd have been much more comfortable if it was called 'Happy Easter!' and the opening post was along the lines of 'I'm giving thanks to Jesus who died for my sins. I hope everyone else has a great Easter' or somesuch.
That was the intent. I admit it would have been clearer if I had posted some explanatory text.
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I don't want to turn this into a debate. I'm just saying I found the thread a little in-your-face, and the way it was handled a bit of a turn-off.
And just to nitpick, 'He is risen' is a thesis too. Thus why I'd have preferred it to be 'Happy Easter'. (Turambar doesn't have any holidays that celebrate the fact that there is no god and the universe is governed by mechanistic, impersonal physical law, after all. But I'm sure he's happy to celebrate Easter as a more general event.)
In fact I suppose I objected to the fact that posting in that thread with my own happiness about Easter felt like being forced to endorse the particular Christian mythology. I celebrate Easter, but I don't believe in that particular system, so I felt the need to throw in a bit of my own interest in the holiday, if that makes sense.
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The only part of your post that I had a problem with was your citation of an article that compared Jesus to Horus. That seemed out-of-place. Everything else, including the appreciation of the secular holiday and the comparison of Easter to Passover, was interesting and on-topic.
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I considered that part of the history of Easter from a secular standpoint. I'm interested in the similarities between the various myth stories of Jesus, Krishna, Horus, Mithras and so on.
If you're a believer, it doesn't matter, because Jesus is the Son of God and these other noobs aren't. The Jesus story came from God and is factually true.
If you aren't, it's an interesting bit of history that explains where the Jesus story came from.
As an agnostic my view is that the Jesus story, like many myths, is a pastiche of lots of others. If I were a believer, however, my view would be that these other myths are parts of God's design and Jesus' story is the really important one.
So - in case this bit of the last post didn't catch you before you posted, since I edited in - I was put off by the fact that posting 'Easter, yay!' in that thread felt like endorsement of the 'He is risen' business.
Not that I object to Jesus rising from the dead and ascending into heaven. It's just a personal comfort thing. If you think this is a silly objection, well, okay.
So - triple post, yay, but at least these give alerts if you're editing - it came off as a bit of a sermon, is all. I either wanted the option to say Happy Easter without that overtone, or to present my own take on the holiday and say 'Happy Easter' to that.
If that makes sense?
The Council of Elrond is not amused by your triple-posting.
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So - in case this bit of the last post didn't catch you before you posted, since I edited in - I was put off by the fact that posting 'Easter, yay!' in that thread felt like endorsement of the 'He is risen' business.
Not to excuse it (because I don't give a damn about offending people today), but in retrospect, that might be why I went troll instead of "yay cheap chocolate bunnies."
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I considered that part of the history of Easter from a secular standpoint. I'm interested in the similarities between the various myth stories of Jesus, Krishna, Horus, Mithras and so on.
Yet the pages with the comparisons that were linked to a few posts ago can't even get Horus's father right (who turns out to be his grandfather after all, but is used because a misspelling of a mispronounciation of his name- Geb, is "Jo-Seph", making it similar to the English name "Joseph"). Not to mention all the other details I wrote about, such as Horus fighting his uncle and having a dead father (things that can't be found on the website, because it messes up the Jesus=Horus idea). To me that page was even less accurate when it comes to facts than "Loose Change" or the other conspiracy theorist's 'masterpieces'.
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Jesus was resurrected...and on the same day Derek Smart was born
FACT: Derek Smart is zombie Jeebus
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IT'S THE SECOND ****ING COMING
D:
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Jesus was resurrected...and on the same day Derek Smart was born
FACT: Derek Smart is zombie Jeebus
'cept Easter isn't the same time every year. so technically zombie son of Nod probably didn't really resurrect yesterday (nor any other time either, for that matter, seeing as god does not exist and thus cannot have impregnated any virgins.)
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The logic is undenyable.
That makes BC3K an edutainment religious game.
Notice how the control scheme is both fraught with deliberate bad design. Causing the players/followers to suffer throughout the learning curve / worship process.
The other similarities escape me temporarily.
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I considered that part of the history of Easter from a secular standpoint. I'm interested in the similarities between the various myth stories of Jesus, Krishna, Horus, Mithras and so on.
Yet the pages with the comparisons that were linked to a few posts ago can't even get Horus's father right (who turns out to be his grandfather after all, but is used because a misspelling of a mispronounciation of his name- Geb, is "Jo-Seph", making it similar to the English name "Joseph"). Not to mention all the other details I wrote about, such as Horus fighting his uncle and having a dead father (things that can't be found on the website, because it messes up the Jesus=Horus idea). To me that page was even less accurate when it comes to facts than "Loose Change" or the other conspiracy theorist's 'masterpieces'.
I think the similarities are striking and the page's analysis is rather cogent.