Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on May 19, 2010, 09:04:13 am
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Looking at the trailer (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTcwOTUyODc2.html), I must say that it does in some ways come accross as something of a hispanic "Birth of a Nation". On one side you have white racist baby killers, and on the other side you have a paramilitary who takes the law into his own hands and kills them.
For those of you who aren't too familair with American history, "Birth of a Nation" was an ultra racist silent film made in 1915. In the film black people were portrayed as evil pillagers and killers of white men, women, and children, so the Ku Klux Klan, a white, anti minority, paramilitary organization comes in and kills the black people, rescuing whites (like I said, it was racist). The movie was largely responsible for a major revival of the KKK as more than a million white men flocked to it, drastically incresing its numbers and power, and it was able to terrorize minority communities across the country until the civil rights era 50 years later.
The point is, with the massive disenfranchisement from the political system, 20% unemployment, and with various (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDlutO0KK7g) antics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6KB_hwzf4) illegal immigrants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8sFy8s2vJY&feature=related) have been pulling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s&feature=related) in recent weeks, a film like machete will just pour gasoline on the fire.
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So...Machete. A Mexploitation film that has been in planning ever since its debut as a fake trailer in the "Grindhouse" project by Robert Rodrigues and Quentin Tarantino. A cheesy film in the vein of El Mariachi, Desperado and Planet Terror (AKA, just like the fun films Rodriguez will make if given the chance) will be the birth of a Mexican/Hispanic insurgence movement?
Why do I have difficulty buying that?
The point is, with the massive disenfranchisement from the political system, 20% unemployment, and with various (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDlutO0KK7g) antics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6KB_hwzf4) illegal immigrants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8sFy8s2vJY&feature=related) have been pulling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s&feature=related) in recent weeks, a film like machete will just pour gasoline on the fire.
Right. I am not sure, but those sources do seem just a tiny bit biased to me. Not to mention that I'd really like to see proof that the people that committed the violence were illegal immigrants. What I am seeing there is people getting angry about a clear instance of racial profiling being instituted as law, with open racism and suspicion among the police force not only tolerated but encouraged (Unless that paragraph that said that you could sue the Police if you thought they weren't doing a good enough job keeping the non-whites out got removed).
It's a bit of a different issue, I think.
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The ironic thing is that Kosh's approach to these issues seems to be the same as Liberator's. "The sky is falling!"
HOLY **** CHEECH MARIN
I'm seeing this movie and taking all my yard workers!
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I assumed he was talking about another KKK revival. Are we seriously talking about a hispanic uprising?
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Well, Kosh seems to be talking about just that.
HOLY **** CHEECH MARIN
Inorite? This film is going to be awesome.
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I think we need to be seriously concerned about the possibility of Mexicans strapping miniguns to their motorcycles and attacking law enforcement personnel. :blah:
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*Facepalm* You do realize Arizona's new law is little different from existing federal immigration law?
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I think we need to be seriously concerned about the possibility of Mexicans strapping miniguns to their motorcycles and attacking law enforcement personnel. :blah:
Your title again? :lol:
(armed motorcycles being used as fighters in the streets of a city... hmmm... that sounds like a funny idea for a videogame...)
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Sparda, you're only somewhat right. In fact, Arizona's new law doesn't actually change federal immigration law at all, it merely requires local law enforcement to help enforce the federal law. It's the means in which it requires this that has people pissed off.
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I thought it only allowed (not required) police officials in the state of Arizona to ask for proof of legal presence (i.e. a visa or green card) if they had reasonable suspicion that the person was here illegally, and only while investigating another crime (so the cops can't just can't walk up to people on the street and ask for papers), and I believe there was even an Executive Order signed by the Governor of Arizona to establish proper training for officers to ensure the checks are conducted in a racially-neutral way.
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I thought it only allowed (not required) police officials in the state of Arizona to ask for proof of legal presence (i.e. a visa or green card) if they had reasonable suspicion that the person was here illegally, and only while investigating another crime (so the cops can't just can't walk up to people on the street and ask for papers), and I believe there was even an Executive Order signed by the Governor of Arizona to establish proper training for officers to ensure the checks are conducted in a racially-neutral way.
Now define "reasonable suspicion." (I bet you that whatever you say is not what an officer would use as a reason.)
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I thought it only allowed (not required) police officials in the state of Arizona to ask for proof of legal presence (i.e. a visa or green card) if they had reasonable suspicion that the person was here illegally, and only while investigating another crime (so the cops can't just can't walk up to people on the street and ask for papers), and I believe there was even an Executive Order signed by the Governor of Arizona to establish proper training for officers to ensure the checks are conducted in a racially-neutral way.
I heard that a precinct can be sued by the community for a lack of enforcement. So it may just 'allow' but with strong encouragement if so. I'm not personally against it, and it did sound like the law was very well thought out, as far as a law along those lines could be. I mean, if you're being investigated for another crime, they're already asking for your ID, so I'm not sure what would even change there. I was under the impression it allowed for more specific checks.
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This movie looks ****ing amazing. :lol:
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I thought it only allowed (not required) police officials in the state of Arizona to ask for proof of legal presence (i.e. a visa or green card) if they had reasonable suspicion that the person was here illegally, and only while investigating another crime (so the cops can't just can't walk up to people on the street and ask for papers), and I believe there was even an Executive Order signed by the Governor of Arizona to establish proper training for officers to ensure the checks are conducted in a racially-neutral way.
The training won't work.
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Somebody's a pessimist.
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Pessimists are more realistic in their expectations.
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Somebody's a pessimist.
No, just a sort-of-expert on that type of training.
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So my pessimistic view that there will always be war, and we will therefore always need firearms, is more realistic than the care bear view that we could someday all get along? And my view that the notion of a house for everyone in America is virtually impossible despite what some interest groups attempt to promote, and that's also a more realistic opinion? Thanks I just needed to hear that from someone else. I've wondered for some time if my beliefs on that were more pessimistic than the reality, but that must not be the case.
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So my pessimistic view that there will always be war, and we will therefore always need firearms, is more realistic than the care bear view that we could someday all get along? And my view that the notion of a house for everyone in America is virtually impossible despite what some interest groups attempt to promote, and that's also a more realistic opinion? Thanks I just needed to hear that from someone else. I've wondered for some time if my beliefs on that were more pessimistic than the reality, but that must not be the case.
wut
This doesn't seem to have much to do with anything.
In this specific case, however, the training is unlikely to work.
iamzack is correct that depressed individuals tend to be more realistic at projecting certain trends. That doesn't translate into any accuracy statements about general worldviews, so what you're saying is unrelated and tangential.
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so what you're saying is unrelated and tangential.
Ya caught me
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Holy crap, this movie appears to have everything. I can only hope against hope that it's 3 hours long and 95% cameo, and they somehow blow up Jessica Alba. Academy Award in the bag.
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Must admit, when I read 'all immigrants should be sent home' on the comments on one of the YouTube videos, my first thought was "I don't think the British Isles, Spain and Holland would have the room for you all".
Maybe I'm just feeling cynical tonight ;)
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Right. I am not sure, but those sources do seem just a tiny bit biased to me. Not to mention that I'd really like to see proof that the people that committed the violence were illegal immigrants.
Well the women screaming "we're going to come get you" said "we" in the context of illegal foreign laborers, which makes it pretty clear she was an illegal. I'll admit to say all of them were is supposition, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them were illegals. Perhaps a better statement would have been "illegals and their supporters".
The ironic thing is that Kosh's approach to these issues seems to be the same as Liberator's. "The sky is falling!"
HOLY **** CHEECH MARIN
I'm seeing this movie and taking all my yard workers!
So in other words, it's okay to be racist against whites. I have a question, if the races were reversed in the film wouldn't you be screaming bloody murder about it? Why are you giving one form of racism a free pass while condemning others?
I assumed he was talking about another KKK revival. Are we seriously talking about a hispanic uprising?
Right now there's an enormous amount of anger on both sides about a lot of things, the tea party is just one manifestation of it. Kids getting sent home from school for wearing shirts with american flags on them is another (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html). With that in mind and with the extreme political polarization occuring in the US, it doesn't seem a good idea to me to make a film like this.
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The ironic thing is that Kosh's approach to these issues seems to be the same as Liberator's. "The sky is falling!"
HOLY **** CHEECH MARIN
I'm seeing this movie and taking all my yard workers!
So in other words, it's okay to be racist against whites. I have a question, if the races were reversed in the film wouldn't you be screaming bloody murder about it? Why are you giving one form of racism a free pass while condemning others?
See I always lack a certain give a damn when you compare Jim Crowe Laws and Segregation to some slight against whites in a movie.
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There's a difference between a hispanic protagonist fighting against white opponents, and actual racism. Does he, at any point, call for the extermination of the caucasian race? Does he, at any point, kill people just for being white?
If that happens in the movie, then yes, you can call it racist. If it doesn't, I would need to hear a better argument.
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The ironic thing is that Kosh's approach to these issues seems to be the same as Liberator's. "The sky is falling!"
HOLY **** CHEECH MARIN
I'm seeing this movie and taking all my yard workers!
So in other words, it's okay to be racist against whites. I have a question, if the races were reversed in the film wouldn't you be screaming bloody murder about it? Why are you giving one form of racism a free pass while condemning others?
You fail! Your mother will be VERY SAD when she sees your report card.
You can't take something someone says, then type 'in other words', and then write something
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
(especially when the person you're ****ing around with is a racial/gender stereotype researcher)
This film is not 'racist against whites' any more than any content related to race is racist. This movie is a satire, in the tradition of exploitation cinema, of racial tension. It is a commentary on race relations. Its humor lies in describing, rather than PROscribing, action.
Secondly, it activates stereotypes pretty evenly across racial lines. The White people and the Mexicans in this trailer get fairly equivalent treatment.
Worst of all - it's funny. It's a comedy! Birth of a Nation was deadly serious. I don't think you can tell the difference because of a childhoood humorectomy. Read up on the history of blaxploitation and sexploitation films and you'll get an idea of the tradition that Machete is coming from.
You have fallen prey to a basic fallacy, because you just don't put very much thought into things before getting upset about them.
I'm gonna guess you didn't enjoy Black Dynamite very much either. I weep for you. :(
(Also, the whole notion that you can just 'reverse the races' is second grade logic. There's a power gradient at work here; you can't just flip the races around and pretend it's an equivalent situation. The whole humor of Machete is the fact that white people are deporting Mexican people and the Mexican people are angry about it.)
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Black Dynamite was actually kinda funny. Hooray for blaxploitation/mexploitation/sexploitation.
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Black Dynamite was awesome.
I'm gonna guess Kosh hasn't seen it since we haven't had a thread about how the dark people are going to start killing the whites in their beds.
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Oh goodness...
/me slaps on LOLerskates...
:lol:
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Oh goodness...
/me slaps on LOLerskates...
:lol:
My thoughts exactly, I so want to watch this movie. I have a friend whose mother was from Ecuador, I can't wait to show him this trailer ;)
It's like the GTA IV of the immigration system ;)
Fact is, I was raised on stuff like this, Enter the Dragon, Blacula, TNT Jackson etc, once upon a time, it was exploitation, but now actors love doing stuff like this, they'll literally bang on the studio door for the chance ;)
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Yes, it's not so much exploitation when it involves blacks now, or perhaps even Latinos, but now the Arab people seem to be getting exploited quite heavily by Hollywood. They're routinely villified and stereotyped.
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Yes, it's not so much exploitation when it involves blacks now, or perhaps even Latinos, but now the Arab people seem to be getting exploited quite heavily by Hollywood. They're routinely villified and stereotyped.
Latest thing I remember was "From Paris with Love", and off the top of my head I can't think of anything between that and True Lies that had evil Arab terrorists.
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And True Lies was well ahead of the curve, in that respect.
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Yes, it's not so much exploitation when it involves blacks now, or perhaps even Latinos, but now the Arab people seem to be getting exploited quite heavily by Hollywood. They're routinely villified and stereotyped.
Latest thing I remember was "From Paris with Love", and off the top of my head I can't think of anything between that and True Lies that had evil Arab terrorists.
Did you see Iron Man?
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Hey, I said it was off the top of my head, meaning it was all I could think of at the time, and I suppose I honestly wasn't trying very hard.
Okay, so that's what, two recent movies out of how many?
And the movie version of The Sum of All Fears in 2002 somehow had neo-Nazis as the villains instead of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine as was written in the novel.
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Well, the problem is - first, we both know there are a lot more movies and media, and second, how many movies do the opposite? The list is pretty limited.
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I see. So your issue is Arabs/Central Asians being used in movies and media when a generic terrorist is needed, despite them being responsible for highly visible stuff like the London bus bombings, the Times Square attempted bombing, the Pantybomber, the U.S.S. Cole bombing, the rocket attacks on Israel, 9/11, and the Madrid subway bombings.
Despite how many or few attacks they commit, the attacks they do make are the visible and noticed ones, which is why they get picked since they resonate with the public's idea of terrorists. You're probably going to say Hollywood needs to cut it out since they're reinforcing a stereotype, but they aren't to as long as people keep paying to see movies that involve American secret agents foiling the the insidious plots of Arab/Muslim terrorists.
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I want a T-Shirt with that motorbike on it.
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I see. So your issue is Arabs/Central Asians being used in movies and media when a generic terrorist is needed, despite them being responsible for highly visible stuff like the London bus bombings, the Times Square attempted bombing, the Pantybomber, the U.S.S. Cole bombing, the rocket attacks on Israel, 9/11, and the Madrid subway bombings.
Despite how many or few attacks they commit, the attacks they do make are the visible and noticed ones, which is why they get picked since they resonate with the public's idea of terrorists. You're probably going to say Hollywood needs to cut it out since they're reinforcing a stereotype, but they aren't to as long as people keep paying to see movies that involve American secret agents foiling the the insidious plots of Arab/Muslim terrorists.
Superficial nonsense.
Arabs carry out a set of significant actions in real life. A subset of that actions are terrorism. If these actions are mapped onto actions in movies without distortion, then a proportional subset of Arab characters in movies should be terrorists.
You will find that the actual proportion is larger than the accurately mapped on. That means there is something going on in the mapping process. Even if every single terrorist in every movie ever made were an Arab, this should only be a proportional subset of Arab characters.
The market argument is bull**** - you and anyone else will happily make an argument against many things the markets favor.
Also, you need to keep an eye on yourself. 'Arabs' were not responsible for any of the events you selected. Extremist Muslim terrorist groups were.
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Oh hey, it's Tortuga from Breaking Bad! Except now he plays a machete-wielding badass!
****ing awesome on all counts, totally seeing this movie. :D