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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Titan on May 23, 2010, 06:58:04 pm

Title: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Titan on May 23, 2010, 06:58:04 pm
If you or anyone you know has been diagnosed with Apsergers or higher-functioning autism like me, I found this a great help.

Survival Guide for people living with Aspergers (http://www.autism-help.org/aspergers-guide-intro.htm)

I am really pissed that all the stuff I can find is for parents to deal with the fact that their child is autistic. Seriously? I makes me feel like a pet with no ability to think for itself.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: S-99 on May 24, 2010, 08:29:26 pm
And if all the parents get to read all that dealing with their kid having autism stuff, then they'll end up treating you like a pet with no ability to think for itself.

A lot of parents do this to their kids without knowing.

I'm dyslexic, my mother's convinced that not all of my neurons are firing and that i'm the biggest ****ing clueless bastard you ever seen. It's this and the fact that my older brother with ADD is so pussy whipped by my mom that i don't go back home because my mom fails to realize that me and my brother are two successful at life smart and rather very normal people.

I clicked your link. I have a friend that my other friends suspect has asperbergers. Learning info either way (it'd be nice to know who's wrong or right....or most likely to leave the issue alone).
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Enigmatic Entity on May 25, 2010, 04:18:09 am
That was a nice article. Sometimes it would be nice if I could make some good friend(s) with someone...
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Dilmah G on May 25, 2010, 04:36:55 am
Hm, I think a bloke at my school could be autistic...
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: S-99 on May 25, 2010, 06:29:58 am
I'm dyslexic, so I was making sure i wasn't mistaking asperger's for ass burgers.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Titan on May 25, 2010, 02:42:43 pm
I'm dyslexic, so I was making sure i wasn't mistaking asperger's for ass burgers.

That's how you pronounce it, too. Pain in the ass when I went to explain what AS was to my friends.

Also, if any of you read that and go, wtf, that doesn't make any sense, trust me. It makes sense to autistic people.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: iamzack on May 25, 2010, 04:08:19 pm
Well, hey, at least Aspie's get to be sick pets. BPD guides are about recognizing, neutralizing, and getting away from people with BPD like they're rabid pumas. :P
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 26, 2010, 01:10:08 am
"ass burgers."  :lol:

Seriously though...

I'm of the opinion that Asperger's disorder is a diagnosis that shouldn't exist. That is, as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), there's no physiological/neural/"real" difference between someone with Asperger's and someone without it. Since it's a diagnosis, either you have it or you don't. Which is rubbish, because it's assigning a yes-or-no value to something that isn't a yes-or-no issue.

Analogous scenario: If someone gets a low score on an IQ test, they're stupid/retarded/whatever (colloquially). They might even be 'retarded'. But that's not an explanation, it's just a label you can slap on things.

And as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), it's the same way with Asperger's.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 01:20:22 am
"ass burgers."  :lol:

Seriously though...

I'm of the opinion that Asperger's disorder is a diagnosis that shouldn't exist. That is, as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), there's no physiological/neural/"real" difference between someone with Asperger's and someone without it. Since it's a diagnosis, either you have it or you don't. Which is rubbish, because it's assigning a yes-or-no value to something that isn't a yes-or-no issue.

Analogous scenario: If someone gets a low score on an IQ test, they're stupid/retarded/whatever (colloquially). They might even be 'retarded'. But that's not an explanation, it's just a label you can slap on things.

And as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), it's the same way with Asperger's.

Asperger's is a position on a continuous scale called the autism spectrum. Your argument is rooted on the notion that it's a binary on/off diagnosis, but it's not. It's one section of the scale.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 26, 2010, 01:30:07 am
Well then, ultimately it's just a quantification of something.

Spoiler:
Congratulations, the test results indicate that you're so socially inept that you can get insurance companies to pay for your needs!
Caution: the above spoiler contains intense cynicism, and should not be read by those who have chronic trouble with sarcasm/facetiousness.

I still don't see why it should have a name.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 01:37:26 am
Well then, ultimately it's just a quantification of something.

I'm sorry, what is it that would be preferable to having a quantification of something? A hazy guess at something? A wild stab in the dark at something?

Quote
I still don't see why it should have a name.

You know, that's a great point!

Next time I see a patient with a CD4 count below 200, I think I'll take your advice and just treat it as not really distinct from a CD4 count above 200. It's just a quantification of something, after all. It doesn't need a name.

Let me go find my textbooks and diagnostic manuals and rip 'AIDS' out of all of them.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: headdie on May 26, 2010, 04:41:32 am

I'm of the opinion that Asperger's disorder is a diagnosis that shouldn't exist. That is, as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), there's no physiological/neural/"real" difference between someone with Asperger's and someone without it. Since it's a diagnosis, either you have it or you don't. Which is rubbish, because it's assigning a yes-or-no value to something that isn't a yes-or-no issue.



try telling that to my sister who is diagnosed Aspergers, has difficult comprehending emotion in others, who has difficulty with interacting with others because she dont comprehend things like tone of voice, facial expression and those are the more obvious effects
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Kosh on May 26, 2010, 05:24:51 am

I'm of the opinion that Asperger's disorder is a diagnosis that shouldn't exist. That is, as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), there's no physiological/neural/"real" difference between someone with Asperger's and someone without it. Since it's a diagnosis, either you have it or you don't. Which is rubbish, because it's assigning a yes-or-no value to something that isn't a yes-or-no issue.



Research adds to evidence that autism is a brain 'connectivity' disorder (http://www.physorg.com/news182327031.html)

Learn.

Quote
Analogous scenario: If someone gets a low score on an IQ test, they're stupid/retarded/whatever (colloquially). They might even be 'retarded'. But that's not an explanation, it's just a label you can slap on things.

And as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), it's the same way with Asperger's.

You're not one of us, you wouldn't understand.


Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: iamzack on May 26, 2010, 12:16:19 pm
Everythin's overdiagnosed.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Mars on May 26, 2010, 12:23:34 pm
I've felt socially inept before, I think everyone has. I've had many of those "symptoms" at one time or another.

Then I got out of my ****ty living situation, changed the way I thought, and now I don't have any such social problem at all.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist necessarily, I'm saying that there's a good chance that a few of you who think you have it really just need to work on your living situation, self-esteem, or just make an attempt to be more social and learn from it.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Scotty on May 26, 2010, 12:26:22 pm
Whether that's true or not (personally, I think so), it doesn't change that Aperger's is most likely a legitimate diagnosis.

However, this phrase always keeps hanging me up when I read stuff on this:
Quote
try telling that to my sister who is diagnosed [with] Aspergers,

Why is that people are diagnosed with it, instead of just having it?  Will that change at some point, simply because it's just a diagnosis?
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Mars on May 26, 2010, 12:28:59 pm
My sister has trouble relating to others too. It's part of her personality, she picks up real douchebags that way, but it's just part of her. There's no mental disorder, and no disease.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 12:42:54 pm
My sister has trouble relating to others too. It's part of her personality, she picks up real douchebags that way, but it's just part of her. There's no mental disorder, and no disease.

She's actually probably somewhere on the autism spectrum - just like everyone else. Just further towards the 'autistic' end.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Solatar on May 26, 2010, 02:22:08 pm
I have very little experience with Asberger's beyond what I've heard from others and a general dislike for psychological diagnosis - which isn't unfounded, honestly.  I think that the diagnosis is bullcrap, but honestly, I've never really met someone with the diagnosis (or if I have, they've managed it very well, something they haven't shared with me).

Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 26, 2010, 02:27:43 pm

I'm of the opinion that Asperger's disorder is a diagnosis that shouldn't exist. That is, as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), there's no physiological/neural/"real" difference between someone with Asperger's and someone without it. Since it's a diagnosis, either you have it or you don't. Which is rubbish, because it's assigning a yes-or-no value to something that isn't a yes-or-no issue.



Research adds to evidence that autism is a brain 'connectivity' disorder (http://www.physorg.com/news182327031.html)

Learn.

And if you're showing me that link and telling me to "learn", you obviously didn't get the point. I'm not saying there isn't something different about these people, I'm saying that diagnoses of "autism" and "autism-spectrum disorders" (including Asperger's syndrome) don't say anything about the cause. That survey you linked to suggests a slightly more specific explanation of at least one possible cause.... But "Asperger's syndrome" and "autism" are still just names for different ranges on a scale. They don't describe a single physiological/biological/neural phenomenon, they describe the many possible phenomena which can cause someone to fall within that range on the scale!

Quote
Analogous scenario: If someone gets a low score on an IQ test, they're stupid/retarded/whatever (colloquially). They might even be 'retarded'. But that's not an explanation, it's just a label you can slap on things.

And as far as I can tell (being a layperson who occasionally reads stuff on the Internet), it's the same way with Asperger's.

You're not one of us, you wouldn't understand.

:lol: I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: iamzack on May 26, 2010, 02:39:06 pm
afaict, assburgers is the asshole disease
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 02:39:56 pm
:lol: I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.

I'm sorry, knowing the severity of the symptoms is of no use to you?

So you don't believe that 'having AIDS' is a valid diagnosis?
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Droid803 on May 26, 2010, 02:42:05 pm
:lol: I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.

I'm sorry, knowing the severity of the symptoms is of no use to you?

So you don't believe that 'having AIDS' is a valid diagnosis?
Wrong analogy.
This is like saying:
"This guy has a sickness look of 150, he's ill"
"This guy has a sickness look of 250, he's diseased"
"This guy has a sickness look of 350, he's terminal"

Where its based on visible symptoms like how pale someone is, or their fever temperature, or how many symptoms they're displaying, all without going into WHAT the exact biological condition is - it's a "diagnosis" based on appearance, which is why it is flawed. IQs aren't truly measureable just like this "autism scale", or how sick someone looks. The issue here is quantifying (or attempting to quantify) qualitative observations which is unsound.

If there's something that's measurable quantity then it is fine if you quantify it. You can measure CD4 count on a quantifiable scale. You can't measure intelligence or social aptitude on the same scale because it's abstract - it can only be described qualitatively.

How do you determine the severity of "social ineptitude"?

I can go as far as to argue that it is an entirely subjective matter, subjective to the society in which the individual exists.

Yeah, I think IQ and that stuff is bull****.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 02:49:32 pm
:lol: I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.

I'm sorry, knowing the severity of the symptoms is of no use to you?

So you don't believe that 'having AIDS' is a valid diagnosis?
Wrong analogy.
This is like saying:
"This guy has a sickness look of 150, he's ill"
"This guy has a sickness look of 250, he's diseased"
"This guy has a sickness look of 350, he's terminal"

Where its based on visible symptoms like how pale someone is, or their fever temperature, or how many symptoms they're displaying, all without going into WHAT the exact biological condition is - it's a "diagnosis" based on appearance, which is why it is flawed. IQs aren't truly measureable just like this "autism scale", or how sick someone looks. The issue here is quantifying (or attempting to quantify) qualitative observations which is unsound.

If there's something that's measurable quantity then it is fine if you quantify it. You can measure CD4 count on a quantifiable scale. You can't measure intelligence or social aptitude on the same scale because it's abstract - it can only be described qualitatively.

Wrong.

There are many good scales that measure social function. IQ is not one of them; I don't know why you'd bring it up in this discussion since it's about as obsolete as divining rods.

It's always useful to quantify the severity of the symptoms. Asperger's is a label applied to individuals within a certain range of said severity. It is a therefore a useful diagnostic label.

If you want to argue with it just to be pig-headed that's fine, but I think everyone's aware that in the end it's a useful label in the same way that AIDS is.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 26, 2010, 02:54:21 pm
AIDS has a specific known cause, and there are specific things one can do once you know you've got it.

An Asperger's diagnosis isn't useful... not to the person who's being diagnosed with it, anyway. Even if it's one of those idiots who thinks that if they say they've got Asperger's syndrome that it somehow excuses their bad behavior (it doesn't!).

Edit: yeah, what Droid803 said.

It's always useful to quantify the severity of the symptoms.

Useful how, and to whom?
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Mongoose on May 26, 2010, 03:25:26 pm
For one, useful in getting the correct type and level of therapy and/or medication to treat the individual in question.  There are certain approaches that can help mitigate the more troublesome symptoms of Asperger's, or of autism in general.  Knowing approximately where a person falls on that spectrum is a useful tool.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 03:29:02 pm
AIDS has a specific known cause, and there are specific things one can do once you know you've got it.

An Asperger's diagnosis isn't useful... not to the person who's being diagnosed with it, anyway. Even if it's one of those idiots who thinks that if they say they've got Asperger's syndrome that it somehow excuses their bad behavior (it doesn't!).

Right, so that's what this is really about. You think it's just used as an excuse. Is the problem that you've been told you may be Asperger's-spectrum? Are you resentful?

Quote
Edit: yeah, what Droid803 said.

It's always useful to quantify the severity of the symptoms.

Useful how, and to whom?

To the clinician attempting to diagnose and treat the patient, to the patient themselves to help with the isolation and consideration of symptoms, and to the behavioral therapists who the Asperger's patient will be referred to in an attempt to handle the physical symptoms of Asperger's such as repetitive motion and physical clumsiness.

On a more general level this question is just profoundly stupid. Triage is always carried out by assessing the severity of symptoms.

Your fundamental objection here is so totally asinine that it makes me think you've not actually considered it. Are the colors 'red' and 'blue' not useful to you? These are positions on a continuous spectrum. Yet their discrete identification is nonetheless a critical element of our visual sensation and communication.

Once a patient has been diagnosed with Asperger's, medication and therapy can be used to target and assist with the symptoms. No knowledge of the ultimate causes is required.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 03:39:11 pm
Before anyone comments further I want them to be familiar with the DSM-IV criteria for Asperger's.

Quote
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

Asperger's has an identified heritable component and its first symptoms appear as early as thirty months. You need to account for this in any theory you have about the disease being purely social fiction.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: S-99 on May 26, 2010, 03:47:58 pm
afaict, assburgers is the asshole disease
I think it's the grinding down of rump roast into hamburger. So, i think we've all eaten ass burgers at one time or another.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 26, 2010, 11:40:23 pm
AIDS has a specific known cause, and there are specific things one can do once you know you've got it.

An Asperger's diagnosis isn't useful... not to the person who's being diagnosed with it, anyway. Even if it's one of those idiots who thinks that if they say they've got Asperger's syndrome that it somehow excuses their bad behavior (it doesn't!).

Right, so that's what this is really about. You think it's just used as an excuse.

No, that's what's called a "tangent"1

Quote
Is the problem that you've been told you may be Asperger's-spectrum? Are you resentful?

Nope1

Quote
To the clinician attempting to diagnose and treat the patient,

Circular logic2.

Quote
to the patient themselves to help with the isolation and consideration of symptoms

Would be a valid point, except that people don't typically need to be told by a doctor what specific sub-classification of autism-spectrum disorders they have to know that they're isolated and that they have trouble in social situations. I'm tempted to say "circular logic" here too2.

Quote
and to the behavioral therapists who the Asperger's patient will be referred to in an attempt to handle the physical symptoms of Asperger's such as repetitive motion and physical clumsiness.

Would be a valid point, but if the behavioral therapists can't assess how bad the problem is on their own, they shouldn't be in that line of work. And again with the circular logic2.

Quote
Once a patient has been diagnosed with Asperger's, medication and therapy can be used to target and assist with the symptoms. No knowledge of the ultimate causes is required.

No diagnosis of Asperger's is required for that either. Although access to some types of prescription medication might be unavailable, and insurance companies might not pay for it.

Quote
Your fundamental objection here is so totally asinine that it makes me think you've not actually considered it. Are the colors 'red' and 'blue' not useful to you? These are positions on a continuous spectrum. Yet their discrete identification is nonetheless a critical element of our visual sensation and communication.

Oversimplification1. Of course it's convenient to have names for the colors... even "useful". The same goes for psychological and physiological ailments. But giving unique and seemingly unrelated names to parts of a continuous scale ("autism", "asperger's syndrome", etc.) inevitably leads to the sort of popular misconceptions people have about these disorders. It'd probably be a lot better understood if instead of completely unrelated names, they were called Autism I, Autism II, Autism III, etc.. Before you get to pointing out that colors like red, blue, and green aren't called Color I, Color II, and Color III, though, I should point out that those are concepts learned from a very early age, and it's a lot harder to change the names of colors than it is to change a manual.

That said, I don't reckon you're in a position to have the manual changed thusly. So I'ma be quiet now1.





1And quit trying to psychoanalyze me :p
2I reckon it'd be kind of hard to diagnose someone with Asperger's if "Asperger's" weren't in the manual.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2010, 11:55:22 pm
None of those 'circular logic' claims made sense. Rephrase and try again.

In fact, nothing of anything you said in that post appears to apply closely to anything I said. Present me with a single coherent statement of your position so that I can correct it.

Case in point

Quote
Would be a valid point, but if the behavioral therapists can't assess how bad the problem is on their own, they shouldn't be in that line of work. And again with the circular logic2.

This is...wow.

This is how the behavioral therapist assesses the severity of the problem. They assess the patient using a series of metrics, compare with the DSM-IV, and determine whether the patient fits the profile of a given disease. Then they apply the treatment for the disease. What did you think they did? Eyeball the patient, talk to them for a bit, and write some prescriptions?

Are you familiar with diagnostic medicine? Have you ever been to a hospital or an ER, or visited a doctor with an illness?

You will.

1. Have your symptoms checked
2. Watch the doctor use the symptoms to diagnose your condition
3. Receive a treatment

Guess what happens here! The expert checks the patient for symptoms, uses the symptoms to diagnose a condition, and proscribes a treatment!

Quote
But giving unique and seemingly unrelated names to parts of a continuous scale ("autism", "asperger's syndrome", etc.) inevitably leads to the sort of popular misconceptions people have about these disorders.

Asperger's is heritable. It is heritable as a discrete disorder. It displays a discrete constellation of symptoms that makes it different from other positions on the spectrum. For some reason you ignored this last time I posted it.

Are you seriously disputing the fact that sets of symptoms are given names and then treated?

I mean, is that seriously your ****ing contention? Because that's exactly how diseases in any field are handled.

You have yet to even touch the AIDS example. AIDS is diagnosed by the exact same type of functional criteria as Asperger's. Explain to me why you don't have a problem with AIDS diagnoses.

Quote
It'd probably be a lot better understood if instead of completely unrelated names, they were called Autism I, Autism II, Autism III, etc..

Oh, wow, you just tried to sneak in a concession of the entire argument. Smooth.

So you do think Asperger's is a useful label with diagnostic validity. You just want the name changed.

Better start a petition.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 27, 2010, 12:03:07 am
Meh.1




1And quit trying to psychoanalyze me :p
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 27, 2010, 12:04:21 am
You made the assertion that an Asperger's diagnosis isn't useful.

Explain the original post to me.

This is an opportunity for you to get your argument out of the fuzzy self-defensive netherland it's stumbled into and back towards a semblance of coherency.

Although looking back at

Quote
Would be a valid point, except that people don't typically need to be told by a doctor what specific sub-classification of autism-spectrum disorders they have to know that they're isolated and that they have trouble in social situations. I'm tempted to say "circular logic" here too2.

(you obviously know that they do need to be told; given popular coverage of the topic you could not help but be aware of the vast sense of relief that people feel when they have received a diagnosis)

Quote
No diagnosis of Asperger's is required for that either. Although access to some types of prescription medication might be unavailable, and insurance companies might not pay for it.

(no diagnosis is required, except for all the critical things it's required for, like access to medication and therapy and the means to pay?)

It seems clear to me that you're aware of your mistakes.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 27, 2010, 12:16:11 am
Er... why are you still trying to debate this with me? I've already given up defending my original position.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 27, 2010, 12:16:56 am
It's better than working on my term paper.  :(
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 27, 2010, 12:22:14 am
It's better than working on my term paper.  :(

/me pats General Battuta on the back.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Kosh on May 27, 2010, 12:47:30 am
Quote
I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.


It saved my life. And frankly it is an attack on those of us who have been diagnosed because you basically came in and said it doesn't exist. You can't treat something if you don't know what it is.


Quote
And if you're showing me that link and telling me to "learn", you obviously didn't get the point. I'm not saying there isn't something different about these people, I'm saying that diagnoses of "autism" and "autism-spectrum disorders" (including Asperger's syndrome) don't say anything  about the cause. That survey you linked to suggests a slightly more specific explanation of at least one possible cause.... But "Asperger's syndrome" and "autism" are still just names for different ranges on a scale. They don't describe a single physiological/biological/neural phenomenon, they describe the many possible phenomena which can cause someone to fall within that range on the scale!

I did get the point, you said there was no neurological basis for it, and that link had a summary of a study that proved otherwise.



And :wtf:? You said you have it but you don't know if you have it. Which one is it?


Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: General Battuta on May 27, 2010, 12:52:05 am
He's already admitted he's wrong.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Aardwolf on May 27, 2010, 01:01:14 am
Quote
I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come along and interpret that as an attack on people who've been diagnosed with Asperger's. You obviously don't understand the concept of an analogy. And for all you know, I do have Asperger's syndrome. I don't even know if I have it or not. And frankly I don't care whether I have it, because it's just a classification of the severity of the symptoms, and that information is of no use to me.


It saved my life. And frankly it is an attack on those of us who have been diagnosed because you basically came in and said it doesn't exist1. You can't treat something if you don't know what it is.


Quote
And if you're showing me that link and telling me to "learn", you obviously didn't get the point. I'm not saying there isn't something different about these people, I'm saying that diagnoses of "autism" and "autism-spectrum disorders" (including Asperger's syndrome) don't say anything  about the cause. That survey you linked to suggests a slightly more specific explanation of at least one possible cause.... But "Asperger's syndrome" and "autism" are still just names for different ranges on a scale. They don't describe a single physiological/biological/neural phenomenon, they describe the many possible phenomena which can cause someone to fall within that range on the scale!

I did get the point, you said there was no neurological basis for it, and that link had a summary of a study that proved otherwise2.



And :wtf:? You said you have it but you don't know if you have it. Which one is it3?






1No, I didn't.
2No, it doesn't. It suggests that in some cases autism may have a neurological basis (and it wasn't even very specific about it). It proves nothing.
3I said neither. What I said is that you have know way of knowing whether I've been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, and even now that I've told you I haven't, you have no way of knowing whether I would be diagnosed if I went trying to find out.



Edit:

He's already admitted he's wrong.


Yeah, but Kosh is too busy being self-righteous.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Kosh on May 27, 2010, 04:14:35 am
It was my turn. :P
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: Titan on May 27, 2010, 09:34:58 am
I'm just gonna end this here by saying, I'm diagnosed, and I sure as hell have it.
Title: Re: I hope this helps someone
Post by: redsniper on May 27, 2010, 11:33:40 am
ITT: No one is a doctor.