Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Rga_Noris on June 08, 2010, 04:10:26 pm
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Just wondering the methods that various users have for LODing. Do you use poly reduction plugins? Do you carefully go over detail0, removing detail as you go? Do you build the LOD from scratch? Do you hope someone else will do it for you?
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detail0 I make manually from detail1; for higher levels, I just use a poly reducer script.
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I use copies of detail 0 in Max, then apply MultiRes to make lower quality versions
of the original ship. Rename them and done.
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I merge vertices.
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Thankyou for this , if someone could take it to the next step and do an "idiots guide" this would be perfect. No one would ever again have an excuse for releasing a ship without a full set of LODS......
i salute you
:D
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I too just merge vertices.
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Lod 1 - everything but cockpits, engine thruster details and guns.
Lod 2 - nuke off any extra detail subobjects.
lod 3 - vertex/polyline removable...
Going to look at multires now.
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It's a little more complicated depending on the ship. What you have to do is look at LOD0. If it's all one nice uniform mesh or all the pieces that make it up are relatively the same then simple multires will do the trick for all LODs. Now if it's made up of dissimilar pieces then you take the main body first and then do the rest in groups of similar pieces if there are any. Think main hull then cloned turrets for instance. This lets you reduce the pieces without getting holes in the models. Removing isolated vertices and welding after also helps and is sometimes mandatory.
Think of it this way. You have a 10k ploy cargo ship main hull with 4 2k poly cargo pods and 10 100 poly turrets. You do the main hull, then the cargo pods, then the turrets. Then go back and make sure there are no big holes or screwy looking parts at range.
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Well after looking at multires you can probably do better with editable poly mod and do simple vertex/line removal that looks nicer.
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Actually I make LOD1 first, using old-school low-poly modeling techniques honed on years of working on FS2 Retail. Then I smooth and greeble it for LOD0.
LOD 2 I can afford to be messy on. I usually just merge a whole bunch of verts, then patch up the UV mapping. LOD3 I don't use the base mesh at all, I just make a cube or something and push and pull it into the general shape of the model.
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Actually I make LOD1 first, using old-school low-poly modeling techniques honed on years of working on FS2 Retail. Then I smooth and greeble it for LOD0.
For tilemapping I can see how it's done, but how do you do UVmapping? You unwrap both detail0 and detail1 manually?
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I unwrap LOD1 and paint it with the base textures. Then as I add detail to LOD0, I map and paint those areas as I model them. Then LOD1 gets all the detail of LOD0, but painted on instead of modeled in.
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I usually make LOD0 first, and then make LOD 1 and 2 from scratch. They get made really fast, and they're kinda fun. I UV map them individually as well.
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What kind of poly reduction do most of you have from LOD to LOD?
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Some interesting methods, I have so far made only the LOD0 + UV and then I used poly reducer script for the other LOD's... is there a particular benefit if I go another way... let's say do bobbtmann's or Galemp's method?
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What kind of poly reduction do most of you have from LOD to LOD?
About 0.5, using four lods in total (detail0 up to detail3).
Some interesting methods, I have so far made only the LOD0 + UV and then I used poly reducer script for the other LOD's... is there a particular benefit if I go another way... let's say do bobbtmann's or Galemp's method?
LOD1 is the default one to be shown in the targeting box - although it can be changed with a table entry, it's a fairly good guideline on how detail1 should look. The poly reducer usually produces fairly messy results, so you may want to make detail1 at least partially by hand (from scratch or from detail0).
Also in general, after using Blender's poly reducer, don't forget to run the "Clean mesh" script - the poly reducer usually leaves some free edges behind. Actually, it makes the mesh quite non-manifold, so some manual cleanup may help too.
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I tend to clean it manually, I didn't knew there was a script for that.
I usually make LOD0 first, and then make LOD 1 and 2 from scratch. They get made really fast, and they're kinda fun. I UV map them individually as well.
So you use 2 textures? 1 for LOD0 and a second for LOD1?
I'm asking because I've read a thread that urges the modders to use as fewer textures as possible so I was curious as per where might I have a limit, regarding texture sizes and quantities.
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I'm asking because I've read a thread that urges the modders to use as fewer textures as possible so I was curious as per where might I have a limit, regarding texture sizes and quantities.
Well yes, textures are currently (and probably will be for a while) one of the biggest performance drains for any 3D application. For example, load a ship like the Amaterasu in PCS2. Drag it around. Notice how slow it is? Now switch off texture viewing (the button on the top bar) and drag it around again - now there's no lagging.
For fighters, I use between 2 and 5 maps - one with the actual hull texture, one damage texture for debris; invisible, glass and cockpit textures if needed. But you should be able to use the same texture for all lods. Oh, and 1024^2 should be plenty for a fighter.
As for tilemapped ships, make it look good with as little maps as possible, that's all. There are hard-coded limits on what a single model can use, but you'd have to be pretty insane to reach those.
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I'm asking because I've read a thread that urges the modders to use as fewer textures as possible so I was curious as per where might I have a limit, regarding texture sizes and quantities.
Well yes, textures are currently (and probably will be for a while) one of the biggest performance drains for any 3D application. For example, load a ship like the Amaterasu in PCS2. Drag it around. Notice how slow it is? Now switch off texture viewing (the button on the top bar) and drag it around again - now there's no lagging.
For fighters, I use between 2 and 5 maps - one with the actual hull texture, one damage texture for debris; invisible, glass and cockpit textures if needed. But you should be able to use the same texture for all lods. Oh, and 1024^2 should be plenty for a fighter.
As for tilemapped ships, make it look good with as little maps as possible, that's all. There are hard-coded limits on what a single model can use, but you'd have to be pretty insane to reach those.
A lot depends on the shape of the model. Anything with large long flat surfaces will result in multiple textures. For the fighters I usually stick with two detail maps (including cockpit and glass) and 1-3 2048 body textures. Larger fighters/bombers (like the Devastator) goes up to ~5 body textures. Also creating and using commonly used detail parts that can get reused on other ships should help the speed.
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A lot depends on the shape of the model. Anything with large long flat surfaces will result in multiple textures. For the fighters I usually stick with two detail maps (including cockpit and glass) and 1-3 2048 body textures. Larger fighters/bombers (like the Devastator) goes up to ~5 body textures.
Multiple 2048 maps for a single fighter? I can see that looking good for still renders, but would anyone notice in-game? Fighters are usually whizzing by pretty fast, you hardly ever get to see one from up close (at least in FS).
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For LOD1 and LOD2 textures , in 3Dsmax you can use texture baking with projection from LOD0 to LOD1 or LOD2. With different UVmapping and textures sizes on LOD0, LOD1 or LOD2.
It's realy quick but you still need little fixing in gimp or photoshop.
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So you use 2 textures? 1 for LOD0 and a second for LOD1?
I'm asking because I've read a thread that urges the modders to use as fewer textures as possible so I was curious as per where might I have a limit, regarding texture sizes and quantities.
nope. I use the same one. I just move polygons for LOD1+ overtop of where the corresponding LOD0 poygons wuld be. By LOD2 I've usually abandoned that, and have placed them wherever they look good.
Like so:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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A lot depends on the shape of the model. Anything with large long flat surfaces will result in multiple textures. For the fighters I usually stick with two detail maps (including cockpit and glass) and 1-3 2048 body textures. Larger fighters/bombers (like the Devastator) goes up to ~5 body textures.
Multiple 2048 maps for a single fighter? I can see that looking good for still renders, but would anyone notice in-game? Fighters are usually whizzing by pretty fast, you hardly ever get to see one from up close (at least in FS).
They should be able to downsize nicely though and a way for future improvements.
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For LOD1 and LOD2 textures , in 3Dsmax you can use texture baking with projection from LOD0 to LOD1 or LOD2. With different UVmapping and textures sizes on LOD0, LOD1 or LOD2.
It's realy quick but you still need little fixing in gimp or photoshop.
With Max's Poly Editing you can usually preserve the uvmapping when you remove vertices/edges.