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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Goober5000 on June 20, 2010, 06:30:01 pm

Title: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on June 20, 2010, 06:30:01 pm
As seen here:
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/home.php

Has anyone tried to import its models into FreeSpace?
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: FlareBaffled on June 22, 2010, 02:11:42 am
There is no reason why Orbiter models can't be input. They can be extracted which means htey can be imported back into FS. The question is whether they need a lot of work to be converted and whether they look any good once done.

Sometimes it takes more effort to convert a model than it does to start one from scratch.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on June 22, 2010, 09:32:23 am
Yup, that's the salient question.

A bit of googling revealed that Orbiter uses its own model format, .msh.  However, it looks like there are converters available to go back and forth from .msh to 3DS and Blender formats.
http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Converting_to_msh
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on June 25, 2010, 11:26:10 pm
I split and locked the Newtonian physics thread derailment.  Can we please stay on topic?

Who here is good at model conversions?  Aside from Galemp; I don't want to burden him with anything in addition to what he already is doing.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Nuke on June 26, 2010, 03:38:58 am
i can understand the split but was it necessary to lock it?
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on June 26, 2010, 01:29:37 pm
Probably not.  I see that it's been unlocked though.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on June 26, 2010, 03:28:34 pm
A few months back, i've tried to convert the Spacepark ( BSG ) from Orbiter. but the ship wasn't worth the effort ( to much stuff to fix in the mesh to make it usable for FSO, but i'm not sure if it was model or system/ tool related ), so i deleted all the Orbiter files and tools. 

Now, with the fresh install of all tools, i consider giving it another try, when i return next Friday.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on June 26, 2010, 03:36:58 pm
That would be great. :)
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on July 04, 2010, 01:04:35 pm
So, my new attempt to convert the Spacepark was far away from beeing a Success.

But i guess you don't want that ship anyway.  :)
Which model should i try to convert first? Any special wishes?
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on July 04, 2010, 01:56:34 pm
How about something simple to start.  Try converting the Space Shuttle Atlantis. :)

And after that, what I would really like to see is the International Space Station model.  It would be nice to have each component as a separate model, and then we can dock them all together in FRED.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: karajorma on July 04, 2010, 09:30:01 pm
The shuttle would be another great model for those "How big is it" shots people like to take. :)
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on July 05, 2010, 03:03:12 am
Ok, i'll start with the Atlantis.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Snail on July 05, 2010, 05:55:28 am
The shuttle would be another great model for those "How big is it" shots people like to take. :)
I still think the car was the best, because it's something you see on an everyday basis...
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on July 05, 2010, 05:59:22 am
The shuttle would be another great model for those "How big is it" shots people like to take. :)
I still think the car was the best, because it's something you see on an everyday basis...

I'm not even thinking about do something like this...unless it's a '67 Shelby GT 500.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: chief1983 on July 05, 2010, 11:00:48 am
May be true, but a lot of ships are so much bigger that you can't compare them to a car.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on October 20, 2010, 11:36:06 pm
:bump:

Now here's something really handy.  Direct from NASA itself, .3ds and .lwo files of all sorts of awesome things, including the Shuttle and the International Space Station. :)

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/assets/iss-hi-res.html
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/assets/shuttle-hi-res.html

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/models.html
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2010, 02:26:13 am
NASA delivers again.

They're awesome. :)
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on October 21, 2010, 09:11:36 am
At least, one of the Shuttles there, doesn't come in parts, unlike 90% of all models from orbiter.
Attached is Atlantis, no Lods, no debries. Just the Mesh (11kpoly) in .pof format.
The length is off by 7cm, but i think that's ok.

Still working on the Orbiter ISS, don't hold your breath it will take some time, as i have other stuff on my plate too.


EDIT: The highrez ISS is nice, but it's a puzzle. At least, NASA provided an assembly manual.  :yes: :p
Converting this mesh would require some serious optimisation, so I'll stick with the Orbiter one. For the moment.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Dragon on October 21, 2010, 02:28:08 pm
Nice, but I thought Orbiter had better textures than these.
Also, a model with closed cargo bay would be nice.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on October 21, 2010, 02:47:40 pm
Nice, but I thought Orbiter had better textures than these.
Also, a model with closed cargo bay would be nice.


Hehe, that's the one ( lowerpoly) from the Nasa site.
Most Orbiter Shuttles are highpoly and/ or split in parts, which is a pain to convert to .pof.

Also, not all Orbiter models have good textures. They are mostly low-rez and VERY rarely in the power of two.
Not to mention that some models have several textures, and i don't like the confetti-map philosophie. At all.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Thaeris on October 21, 2010, 07:41:21 pm
Well, what's so hard? What model format is getting spit out from there?

Furthermore, what's the problem with parts? Fuse the model together, optimize it, and then move on! That probably means you'll need to do a new UV map, but if you want a well and properly made model, you're going to need to do the work - there's no other way around it.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on October 21, 2010, 08:08:20 pm
Or take the separate parts and make them into submodels... that's why they're separate instead of fused in the first place.  We want operating cargo bay doors and Canadarms, and we want destroyable SSMEs. :p

And if the ISS is provided as a bunch of separate models needing construction, even better!  Make separate POFs out of each of the modules.  We can create our own space stations in FRED out of the building blocks, and fantasize about NASA having the budget of the DoD. :D
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Thaeris on October 21, 2010, 08:59:05 pm
...

The latter may in fact be a bad idea. What would be a better idea would be to optimize the individual componets of the station and then provide a "kit" of sorts which would allow the modeler/.pof rigger to create the space installation of his or her choice. Forcing the user to manually put things together in FRED is just a terrible idea, and what happens if you accidentally place something too close? Let the structure self-collide itself to death?

...Not to mention that the latter is a hackish solution - why do that when you can do it properly?

 :nod:
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 21, 2010, 09:36:22 pm
Or you put dock points on the POFs and just dock them all together?
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on October 21, 2010, 10:34:20 pm
Exactly.  I thought it was implied, but I meant that all the modules could be docked together in FRED.  And the docking would take care of all the alignment issues.  Heck, if someone gave me the POFs, I'd add all the POF data and dockpoint information myself.

Even if the modules weren't docked, there have never been problems with "assembling" space stations in FRED before.  Witness the many uses of the Karnak installation.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on October 21, 2010, 11:32:08 pm
Maybe i should add something for clarification.
When i say "parts", then i don't mean module A is one part and module B with Solar panels is another.
Some of the models are made of 150 to 290 parts/ pieces, where "part" means, that the entire mesh is made of cylinders, boxes and spheres, which have a texture slapped on them.

This pic shows the upper part of a different Orbiter model:

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/parts.png)

Turning those parts into pofs will eat up your shipslots, and will drive the user into madness when trying to assmble the ISS in FRED.  :P
Most Orbitermeshes are build this way ( from the model app, staright into Orbiter), for instance, there are high poly SW fighters with over 160.000polys. Made of Boxes, Cylinders and Spheres.


The ISS will be set up for assembly Module by Module in FRED, as originally requested, which makes the most sense to me.
I think that certain parts ( Solarpanels and such ), will also be available separately.
Openable Cargobay doors and a moving Canadarm on the Shuttle are possible.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on October 21, 2010, 11:44:49 pm
Oof.  Well, if the model is made up of multiple independent cubes and spheres, that's different.  That's definitely harder. :(

Is there a way to select a bunch of models and fuse them all together, similarly to the Group/Ungroup command in graphics editor programs?  Although I'd suspect you'd have to clean up the internal geometry at the intersections.  I hope that the "fuse" action takes care of that for you.

Maybe some of the other modellers (Galemp?  VA?  Etc.?) would be willing to chime in.

Also, it may be necessary to study other illustrations of the ISS in order to tell whether Part A is part of, for example, the solar panels or the truss next to them.
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Goober5000 on November 22, 2010, 01:17:50 pm
:bump:

Any progress on this?
Title: Re: Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator
Post by: Angelus on November 22, 2010, 02:17:43 pm
:bump:

Any progress on this?

it's progressing. Might have a small present soontm.

The ISS is going to take a while though, but i think the worst part is behind me. No estimates though.