Hard Light Productions Forums
Site Management => Site Support / Feedback => Topic started by: Redstreblo on July 03, 2010, 01:23:39 pm
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I posted a thread in General Discussion moderated by Nuke and Dekker. And the subject... nuclear weapons. hmm maybe a mistake to put it in its proper place. Anyway it has a poll consisting of 5 answers. Over time the poll grew to include answers like nukes are sexy and I want to hump them, or something like save the whales, nuke japan.
I didn't put those answers up and I hate to jump to conclusions on these things, but I think it is pretty obvious that Nuke is modifying my poll. It is one thing for somebody to post a reply that is disrespectful to the topic and a completely different thing for a moderator to be disrespectful to a topic.
I did post a reply to the board complaining about sudden changes to the poll, but I didn't PM anybody about it.
I thought it was funny with one extra option, but the poll will be running for 2 weeks and I am worried that its initial purpose will be destroyed.
Is there a way to remove the added vote options without reseting all of the votes on the subject? If so please reset it to options 1-5. Thanks! ;)
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I don't think you should expect any topic in GenDisc to go the way you like.
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Between, Nuke, Dekker, TrashMan and iamzack...
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I don't think you should expect any topic in GenDisc to go the way you like.
It's not a problem with an off topic discussion going off topic. This is about moderators using their powers to rape my poll. I feel that any silly or funny comments should be just that, a comment. There was no reason to **** with my poll. I reset all votes and put it back, so I lost votes just because somebody had to make FIVE funnies. That's right, I had to delete five junk poll options.
EDIT: Fixed a typo
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My point is that I don't believe that General Discussion is a great place for serious serious threads.
People don't want to have serious discussions, because they tend to go horribly wrong, so they try to lighten the mood.
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Between, Nuke, Dekker, TrashMan and iamzack...
I thought TrashMan was banned from GenDisc. :confused:
(Note that I'm not implying in any way that I agree or disagree with the ban).
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but a topic about nuclear bombs blowing **** up doesn't fit in freespace discussion, or the Port or anywhere else. It is off topic and the other off topic boards don't make sense either.
Where would you put it?
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but a topic about nuclear bombs blowing **** up doesn't fit in freespace discussion, or the Port or anywhere else. It is off topic and the other off topic boards don't make sense either.
Where would you put it?
I think GB meant, that it's not good to post something serious at all, in GenDisc.
The discussions there start nicely and then the entire thread goes downwards very fast.
There are rarely threads about serious stuff, that doesn't get locked or someone gets banned.
Also, there is not a single Poll on this entire board, that doesn't has at least the Snuffleupagus option.
Most long time members include that in their options by default.
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Well the gendisc needs a new set of moderators. Moderators who do their jobs right and don't nerf serious discussions. MY THREAD WAS FINE UNTIL A MODERATOR CHANGED IT. It is getting back on track now with a poll reset and so long as it's left alone it should stay that way. If everybody got used to the fact that nobody can do anything in gendisc then there is a problem and it should be fixed.
Sack the moderators that's what I think needs to happen. :nod:
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Well the gendisc needs a new set of moderators. Moderators who do their jobs right and don't nerf serious discussions. MY THREAD WAS FINE UNTIL A MODERATOR CHANGED IT. It is getting back on track now with a poll reset and so long as it's left alone it should stay that way. If everybody got used to the fact that nobody can do anything in gendisc then there is a problem and it should be fixed.
Sack the moderators that's what I think needs to happen. :nod:
Actually, it's not because of the moderators.
In 99.9% of all cases, it's because of the "normal" members derailing the thread, or certain combinations of members diving to deep into the discussion and turning it into something that requires, either heavy moderation or a lock.
In some cases it's fun, in others it's not.
Personally, i think the moderation of GenDisc is fine.
You just happened to post a thread containing the word "nuke", which if you have noticed by now, leads to some "undesired" moderation by one or more moderators. :lol:
Don't take it too personally or as a offense by the moderator/s there.
It guess it was meant as fun, or as a "preemptive" action, considering the "history of serious threads" in GenDisc. :)
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Well the gendisc needs a new set of moderators. Moderators who do their jobs right and don't nerf serious discussions. MY THREAD WAS FINE UNTIL A MODERATOR CHANGED IT. It is getting back on track now with a poll reset and so long as it's left alone it should stay that way. If everybody got used to the fact that nobody can do anything in gendisc then there is a problem and it should be fixed.
Sack the moderators that's what I think needs to happen. :nod:
Again, I think that any attempt to have a serious discussion in GenDisc is misguided. They turn into flamewars and really wreck the place.
Are you new around here? Believe me, Dekker and Nuke's antics are preferable to what we've had in the past. They keep things light.
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He's not really new.... He's Galemp's bro. :)
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Well the gendisc needs a new set of moderators. Moderators who do their jobs right and don't nerf serious discussions. MY THREAD WAS FINE UNTIL A MODERATOR CHANGED IT. It is getting back on track now with a poll reset and so long as it's left alone it should stay that way. If everybody got used to the fact that nobody can do anything in gendisc then there is a problem and it should be fixed.
Sack the moderators that's what I think needs to happen. :nod:
Again, I think that any attempt to have a serious discussion in GenDisc is misguided. They turn into flamewars and really wreck the place.
Are you new around here? Believe me, Dekker and Nuke's antics are preferable to what we've had in the past. They keep things light.
I'm new to gendisc, didn't know about its issues... :doubt:
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Shall we make another attempt at starting a Meeting Hall forum?
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Sack the moderators that's what I think needs to happen. :nod:
Lurk moar. :p
But yeah, the moderator shouldn't have done that.
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Shall we make another attempt at starting a Meeting Hall forum?
Just looked up what the meeting hall was and it's a place for debates?
I think yes, it should exist. This way people can have serious discussions about anything and gendisc can burn and be silly all it wants.
I just want a place to have serious discussions on off-topic general boards.
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Ugh, please no. :(
There is zero chance it would not simply become what GenDisc has been at its worst.
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Ugh, please no. :(
There is zero chance it would not simply become what GenDisc has been at its worst.
This is why we can't have nice things. :P
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Ugh, please no. :(
There is zero chance it would not simply become what GenDisc has been at its worst.
It would need 24/7 moderation, and strict rules about offtopicness etc.
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Whatever the sad status of Gen. Disc., Redstreblo does have a point. Just because many/most threads devolve into chaos quickly, I do not think attempts at a serious discussion should be deliberately discouraged or even outright prevented by the moderators. If they're doing that, they've missed the point of moderating.
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Ugh, please no. :(
There is zero chance it would not simply become what GenDisc has been at its worst.
It would need 24/7 moderation, and strict rules about offtopicness etc.
I'm ok with this and I believe general discussion can be better with clear guidelines and moderators that do their jobs properly. Maybe rules should be made/made clearer and a cleanup of gendisc should be attempted before abandoning it.
EDIT: Shade you beet me to it! :lol:
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I'll put my hands up and admit the sexy nuke additiona, the others not too sure.
I'm not going to let Nuke take the stick for the sexy option when i'm big enough to own up to :yes: it.
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I'll put my hands up and admit the sexy nuke additiona, the others not too sure.
I'm not going to let Nuke take the stick for the sexy option when i'm big enough to own up to :yes: it.
ok, well I hope he doesn't take it badly that I jumped to conclusions :doubt: but thanks for admitting it. Sorry to punch you in the face and question your moderating abilities, but:
Whatever the sad status of Gen. Disc., Redstreblo does have a point. Just because many/most threads devolve into chaos quickly, I do not think attempts at a serious discussion should be deliberately discouraged or even outright prevented by the moderators. If they're doing that, they've missed the point of moderating.
;)
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It's not a punch in the face at all to be fair.
Now ban this guy so i can carry on.
Nah just kidding. Apologies for any distress i may have caused :x
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Well...in all seriousness, could we wait until the point that the thread has naturally gone silly to be silly with the poll options and thread names and such?
And least let us try to have a super srs discussion for four or five pages before either a WITTY TITLE resurgence or a retur--ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOCAT!
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Yeah, it's one thing if a thread has already gone to hell in a handbasket, but to crap all over somebody's thread right from the beginning feels like bad form.
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I just avoid GenDisc. And I'm not the only one.
Off-topicness is all right in my book, but when two individuals about radically different views on the same subject start arguing for their opinions, it mostly gets out of hand. And it's simply pointless because neither can convince the other.
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I liked the Meeting Hall. We played Battleship.
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I don't think we need another forum...just the ability to distinguish between conversations that are still super srs and the ones that have devolved into:
"god suxx an christians suxx also ur mom suxx"
"god does not suxx bc it is logically impossible for god to suxx lol oh an u r miss odge an istic lol"
"i boned ur mom last nite lol an bwoke my back lol"
(50 points for picking out who those people are :D )
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Might be stupid idea but, adding the word "Moderated" at the beginning of the thread title, to inform that it's a srs thread and that derailing and the other usuall things that tend to happen in srs threads are not welcome.
This would of course require, that the Moderators act tougher ( warning people who start derailing, deleting non-related posts...).
On the other hand, Mods would have spend more time watching/ cleaning such threads.
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Nuclear1 . . . . . Is that last one somebody not a million miles from where I am?
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Nuclear1 . . . . . Is that last one somebody not a million miles from where I am?
Sorry Dekker, I don't get that? All people are not a million miles from where you are? :lol:
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Nuclear1 . . . . . Is that last one somebody not a million miles from where I am?
Possibly :p
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We don't need another forum, and whoever messed with the poll was wrong to do so. I've been tempted to on numerous times, but it's disrespectful to the poster and reflects badly on the moderator. Shouldn't be done, and if you have a problem with it another time, try the report post function; some other moderator might come in and fix it for you.
As for the serious discussion thing...it used to be possible. Why is it not now? Just stop acting like childish twats and report folks who do (and I can name a couple off the top of my head that I'd probably see in my inbox quite regularly if you did).
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The moderation is far too quick to lock topics and far too slow to hand out bans to people who aren't even attempting meaningful discussion.
Discuss.
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I agree. Personally, I think 1 or 2 day bans for people who get out of line during discussion would be more beneficial than closing entire topics due to one or two bickering individuals.
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You are aware that that would mean giving moderators the power to tempban people?
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Oh god no. I can see it now.
You failed to attach your fs2_open.log to the support request. You are banned for 2 days. NEXT!!!!!!!
:warp:
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All I know is that I know a few members who I'd like to see temp-banned more regularly. Of course, that would require the mods to be more mature with that power.
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Your post in "A Celebration of FreeSpace" did not include a (friggin' awesome) screenshot. Banned for a week!
Seriously, though. I still think the current system works well enough. Pothing's nerfect.
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You are aware that that would mean giving moderators the power to tempban people?
I doubt that's actually necessary. They would have to log requests with an adminstrator. We have at least a couple around every day, it wouldn't be hard to simply hit the button a couple times.
Unless I'm completely wrong about how the interface works.
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We have a temp ban request button? Where?
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Would be news to me as well.
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Please DON'T consider giving us (The GD Moderation duo) Temp ban power.
Between my infrequent bouts of DRUNK, and Nukes "relaxed" moments... Everyone would end up banned at some point :rolleyes:
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We could always just get a decent mod for the GD boards....
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We have a temp ban request button? Where?
Not what I meant. I know you guys have your own forum, sticky a topic. It might not be rapid, but it'll work.
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You are aware that that would mean giving moderators the power to tempban people?
I'm active on the official [adult swim] forums (a corporate board using Lithium's software), and the volunteer moderators there have the power to temp-ban, and even perma-ban, individual users. Users are allowed to have more than one account per IP there, though, so only the administrator can hand out blanket IP bans. I'm not necessarily suggesting we should extend some level of ban privileges to mods here, but I think there's at least cause to discuss it.
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We could always just get a decent mod for the GD boards....
Global mods tend to police things before i get wind of them to be honest.
So :p to you Scotty :p indeed.
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Global mods tend to police things before i get wind of them to be honest.
So :p to you Scotty :p indeed.
You're not helping your case. :P
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:nod:
Fine i mod-quit then :D
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:nod:
Fine i mod-quit then :D
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?
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Emo-dekker, news at six!
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:p
Only joking.
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I don't think it's possible in SMF for moderators to ban (or even temp-ban) members.
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I don't think it's possible in SMF for moderators to ban (or even temp-ban) members.
Then:
I know you guys have your own forum, sticky a topic. It might not be rapid, but it'll work.
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Or give moderators just the power to deny a user access to their board for a couple days? Might be hard to implement though.
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Or give moderators just the power to deny a user access to their board for a couple days? Might be hard to implement though.
Essentially I think the forum software is such that if it's not in SMF, it's not happening.
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You failed to attach your fs2_open.log to the support request. You are banned for 2 days. NEXT!!!!!!!
(http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/tv/fpentblogs/300_soupnazi_072010.jpg)
NO FSO SUPPORT FOR YOU!
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Somehow, I think people's mentality that GD is a joke board is more harmful than anything. If a meeting hall board would return, I'm confidant that people would have the intelligence to think "oh hey, we're not supposed to just dick around here" or go around shouting "well hey man, that's just like my opinion." But then again, I forget why we got rid of the last meeting hall, so I could be wrong.
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Somehow, I think people's mentality that GD is a joke board is more harmful than anything. If a meeting hall board would return, I'm confidant that people would have the intelligence to think "oh hey, we're not supposed to just dick around here" or go around shouting "well hey man, that's just like my opinion." But then again, I forget why we got rid of the last meeting hall, so I could be wrong.
It is a joke board. This ain't Fight Club.
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Then it's sad that there's no place for serious non-FS discussion.
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It is a joke board. This ain't Fight Club.
Then why is anyone complaining? Oh wait, because it's not supposed to be.
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Then it's sad that there's no place for serious non-FS discussion.
There is. It's called General Discussion.
But haven't you seen the level of the 'serious' discussion that happens there?
It is a joke board. This ain't Fight Club.
Then why is anyone complaining? Oh wait, because it's not supposed to be.
Levity is part of discourse. It keeps the ban rate down.
In fact GenDisc has been higher quality in the past few months than it's ever been. What are you worrying about?
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[...]
There is. It's called General Discussion.
But haven't you seen the level of the 'serious' discussion that happens there?
[...]
Levity is part of discourse. It keeps the ban rate down.
In fact GenDisc has been higher quality in the past few months than it's ever been. What are you worrying about?
It is a joke board. [...]
What? Did I miss something?
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[...]
There is. It's called General Discussion.
But haven't you seen the level of the 'serious' discussion that happens there?
[...]
Levity is part of discourse. It keeps the ban rate down.
In fact GenDisc has been higher quality in the past few months than it's ever been. What are you worrying about?
It is a joke board. [...]
What? Did I miss something?
Apparently. Read it again, see if it makes more sense! There's no contradiction there.
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There is no explicit contradiction, but unless you elaborate your argument just seems malformed, and repeatedly reading what you've written doesn't exactly tell me how a joke board is supposed to have serious discussions.
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There is no explicit contradiction, but unless you elaborate your argument just seems malformed, and repeatedly reading what you've written doesn't exactly tell me how a joke board is supposed to have serious discussions.
My admittedly rather obtuse point is that humor keeps people from descending into personal attacks, napalm-drenched ad hominems, and endless reiterations of the same tired debates.
As a veteran of god knows how many years of academic debate stuff, I can attest that there is simply no way to prevent an 'honest and serious discussion' from degenerating into ill will and anger without getting some levity into the mix.
We do not need a DEADLY SRS BOARD
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Are you people giving up and let GenDisc degenerate that way? There are many trash threads, true, but I remember at least a couple of threads ("More proof of evolution" and "Iraq") in which people had long and interesting discussions on a variety of subjects. And these threads surely haven't been posted in the past few months, effectively proving Battuta's claim* wrong.
*In fact GenDisc has been higher quality in the past few months than it's ever been. What are you worrying about?
A while ago I complained about WHIYL threads and what they were turning GenDisc into. Opinions on the matter were various.
I'd like to say the following (this is my personal opinion, I don't know how many other community members may share it): until a few months ago, I used to take a look at new threads in GenDisc with curiosity, knowing that it was a place where smart members usually engage in long and beautiful-to-read discussions. Now things have completely changed. I don't know why, but I feel like the purpose of that board has changed completely. To the worse.
As a veteran of god knows how many years of academic debate stuff, I can attest that there is simply no way to prevent an 'honest and serious discussion' from degenerating into ill will and anger without getting some levity into the mix.
You don't know how many posts you can find in threads like "More proof of evolution (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=39227.msg797665#msg797665)", don't you? As far as I'm concerned, those threads may have turned into trash a billion times and who knows how many posts have been split... but heh, I can still find hundreds of interesting posts in that thread. 960.
I see you weren't here back when Dekker posted the last comment on that thread, but still...
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As I've said already, I feel like GenDisc is in much better shape than it used to be.
And I was one of the biggest GenDisc contributors for a while.
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And I said that I fail to understand how you can claim that GenDisc is in a much better shape now. What are you basing such assumptions on? I think pretty much the contrary: GenDisc has degenerated.
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And I said that I fail to understand how you can claim that GenDisc is in a much better shape now. What are you basing such assumptions on? I think pretty much the contrary: GenDisc has degenerated.
How many enormous flamewars have we had in the past couple months?
Yeah, case closed.
Ironically the last epic threadnaught we had was the one I ran about teleportation and nonreductive physicalism (if I recall correctly.)
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But... you know meaningless that is, right? The shortage of flamewars in the past two months doesn't mean anything. The gross majority of the "meh" posts I can find on GenDisc do not involve any personal attacks.
In poor words, using the number of flamewars as a "qualitometer" = not sufficient.
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As far as I'm concerned, it really is. Moderating GenDisc is about minimizing harm much more than maximizing benefit.
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Mobius, you, of all people, should not start to argue about taste. Personally, I find the lack of flamewars quite refreshing. And while the discussions currently going on might not be to your taste, there is a) nothing stopping you from starting a topic about something you wish to discuss and b) nothing stopping you from ignoring GD altogether.
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For the record, nobody here is wishing to see more flamewars: the "problem" here is that the number of flamewars is the only parameter Battuta has considered in claiming that GenDisc "has improved".
To be honest I can hardly agree with such a statement, and can mention quite a few people who avoid GenDisc not for the flamewars, but rather for the overall quality levels of that board.
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So why don't you go improve it? What do you feel is wrong with it?
That's the only parameter that matters to me because as far as I'm concerned GenDisc doesn't do much good (aside, of course, from letting me admire MP-Ryan's slickly toned posts and showing off my WPM).
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Again, whether or not you find GD a good place to be is very much a matter of taste. If you do not like the discussions there your choice is either to ignore it or make an effort to improve the situation.
From a moderator's point of view, the fact that members manage to remain civil and have some good conversations going is enough. It is not my place (and it sure as hell ain't yours) to tell people that they're not as good as the commenters of yore. Because THAT, once again, is a matter of taste, and as you should know, you can't argue about that.
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I just avoid GenDisc overall. Two people arguing about a topic that they view very differently is a waste of effort. Neither side can be convinced and even if he could be, it wouldn't make the slightest of difference. The time spent undertaking such "discussions" is better spent somewhere else.
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I just avoid GenDisc overall. Two people arguing about a topic that they view very differently is a waste of effort. Neither side can be convinced and even if he could be, it wouldn't make the slightest of difference. The time spent undertaking such "discussions" is better spent somewhere else.
That's basically my feeling too, and hell, I've been a big GenDisc poster.
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Check the regular GD posters, see how they behave in other boards.
Do they exhibit radically different personalities in other boards or is it the subject matter rather than the tone it's presented in which whips those same people into a frenzy? Or is it the fact they're in GD?
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I can speak from experience that TrashMan is TrashMan, even if he isn't in a GenDisc area.
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I just avoid GenDisc overall. Two people arguing about a topic that they view very differently is a waste of effort.
I think this is the issue when it comes to serious business on any of the board's forums.
At some stage, people just can't discuss, and they feel the need to argue/resort to other aggressive behaviour. When you can see that one person has a radically different viewpoint than you do on something, agreeing to disagree is a lot more productive than being aggressive and making an ass out of yourself and the entire board.
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I just avoid GenDisc overall. Two people arguing about a topic that they view very differently is a waste of effort.
I think this is the issue when it comes to serious business on any of the board's forums.
At some stage, people just can't discuss, and they feel the need to argue/resort to other aggressive behaviour. When you can see that one person has a radically different viewpoint than you do on something, agreeing to disagree is a lot more productive than being aggressive and making an ass out of yourself and the entire board.
Or you can thrash them so hard that their women lament.
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Or you can thrash them so hard that their women lament.
Or drag them down to your level and beat them with experience.
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Or you can thrash them so hard that their women lament.
Let's see you try. :D
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Tempting fate once again, I see.
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Or you can thrash them so hard that their women lament.
Let's see you try. :D
I refer you to Hard Light Productions General Discussion forum.
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Oh pshaw, I see no lamenting women! :P
Tempting fate once again, I see.
Oh, that was pretty tame by my standards of fate-tempting.
/me quietly brings up the running from gang incident.
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Or drag them down to your level and beat them with experience.
If we could do it to Trashman, we could do it to anyone.
Then the moderation stopped letting us do it to Trashman. :(
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Yes but you see Trashman inevitably had more experience than the rest of us, so he may just as well have beat us at his own game at one stage.
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Yes but you see Trashman inevitably had more experience than the rest of us, so he may just as well have beat us at his own game at one stage.
Karaj pretty much had it covered. I only helped.
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(http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/081410/toilet-computer-2010.gif)
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Oh pshaw, I see no lamenting women! :P
That's because you're on an internet forum, which by definition is devoid of women.
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Don't let Rian hear you... :nervous:
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GenDisc didn't change much, in terms of "kind-of-topic" posted. We have all kind of topics, rarely "serious" ones.
What's changed is indeed the number of flamewars. GenDisc is much quieter now.
It's still the Brown Sector of HLP. There's the usual going on, and when Chief- insert Moderator nick- Garibaldi walks through, everyone's busy with pretending they're innocent. :P
There are, on occasion "serious" discussions going on, and the reason that those aren't turning always into flamewars, is imo, that certain members ( ex-members ) aren't posting anymore/ don't get involved too much.
Me also thinks, that people don't get too involved in certain topics, considering that previously "serious" discussions, turned into flamewars (minor reason) and get locked and on occasion people get banned ( major reason).
Maybe i'm wrong on this one, but it seems that threads like "Whatever happens in your life" seemed to aid, in a twisted way, to reduce the number of flamewars.
Having such dedicated "i crapped, and i want to let the world know" threads seems to reduce the amount of spam threads.
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Don't let Rian hear you... :nervous:
She left.