Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Liberator on July 08, 2010, 12:28:14 pm

Title: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Liberator on July 08, 2010, 12:28:14 pm
Didn't know if you guys had seen this thing (http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/06/13/set_sith_afire).  I'm of two minds, yeah it's freaking cool as hell, but it's also incredibly dangerous and I have no idea why it's so easily available.  Unless they are trying to arm us against the upcoming alien invasion in 2012?
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: StarSlayer on July 08, 2010, 12:29:33 pm
Enjoy it while it lasts, Lucas has already threatened to litigate
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: achtung on July 08, 2010, 12:32:55 pm
I'm going to try to pick one up I think. Just for kicks.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: chief1983 on July 08, 2010, 12:42:23 pm
I still say I have no idea why it's so cheap.  Several mW lasers in that spectrum cost upwards of $1000 so why is this one so affordable now?
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Titan on July 08, 2010, 12:51:09 pm
Cuz' it's just a flashlight  :P

Or it requires plutonium batteries*

*Batteries not included
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: qazwsx on July 08, 2010, 06:09:57 pm
Freaking cool as hell, if I had the money, I'd buy one, as I trust myself with it.

shouldn't be that easily avaliable though :\
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: BloodEagle on July 08, 2010, 06:36:53 pm
Vigilante justice is going to get an amazing boost in activity.  So is random murder.

But, you know.  Whichever.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Mongoose on July 08, 2010, 09:12:15 pm
The fact that stuff like this even exists for public consumption fundamentally scares me.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Liberator on July 09, 2010, 01:19:20 am
If they've upped the power that much and lowered the production costs enough to cause it to be that much less than the previous model, there will be some kind of restriction on it eventually.  I found this on HardOCP today, but I doubt the general public knows much, if anything, about it's existence.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Kosh on July 09, 2010, 02:09:54 am
The fact that stuff like this even exists for public consumption fundamentally scares me.

I dont see how it can be any worse than those black market AK-47's the gangbangers love so much.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: watsisname on July 09, 2010, 02:27:04 am
Um, wat?  How the hell do they sell a *blue* laser of one THOUSAND milliwatts power for that cheap?  (Claims to be <$200).  Usually even a 100mW blue laser goes for thousands of dollars.
/me is confused :confused:


Edit:  Oooh, I see, it's some new type of blue laser diode.  Iiinteresting.  And this is pretty scary stuff:

Quote
Prolonged exposure to blue laser light can alter and have a diminishing effect on a person's perception of the color green.Patients who were treated for being exposed too long to intense blue laser light in the milliwatt range were only able to perceive the green color in a period of about 4-6 months.

The blue wavelength can cause a distinct biochemical action in the release of free radicals which are then effectively absorbed by red blood cells in the capillaries. Blue laser light, 445nm or 470nm is absorbed more effectively by retinal tissue compared to 532nm green or 650nm red laser light.

 :shaking:
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 09, 2010, 02:31:57 am
Batteries not included ;7
 
 
Where are the restrictions on this thing?
 
Although a magnifying glass angled just right can cause comparable if not more damage in retrospect.
 
****ING ANTS
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Mongoose on July 09, 2010, 03:09:56 am
The fact that stuff like this even exists for public consumption fundamentally scares me.

I dont see how it can be any worse than those black market AK-47's the gangbangers love so much.
It's a lot worse in that your average idiot suburbanite teen probably has no idea how to get his hands on a black-market AK-47, yet could purchase this laser without any issues and start shining it in his neighbor's windows just for kicks.  I mean, you could be sitting in your own house, happen to look outside in the wrong direction at the wrong time, and wind up with permanent eye damage.  That's ****ed up.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Shade on July 09, 2010, 05:12:31 am
For that matter, with a 1W laser you may not even need to turn your head - reflections could well be enough to do damage. 1W is a very, very serious amount of power in the context of lasers, and is really not something you should be able to get your hands on without a permit.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Flipside on July 09, 2010, 05:56:40 am
I agree with those in this post that are concerned about this, as has been pointed out, most people really don't understand the damage of simply pointing one of these things at other people. I'm not even certain would such a laser could used for other than leaving scars on people you don't like. It's called an arctic laser, and I can see the use of something like that in the arctic, where it would be better than a chain-saw if you are trapped in a boulder field, but you don't see chain-saws being passed off as kids toys.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2010, 06:05:31 am
burning people is a-1 supar and every kid should have the opportunity to do so
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Flipside on July 09, 2010, 06:07:46 am
Seeing as I still have a scar on the back of my hand where someone in the metalwork class decided to hold an iron rod under an oxy-acetylene burner and then put the hot end on my hand as I worked over 20 years ago, I'm inclined to disagree :p
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: chief1983 on July 09, 2010, 10:30:18 am
I would almost consider getting one, except I don't have a gun safe to lock it up in yet.  And I don't think they sell trigger guards for lasers yet.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: jr2 on July 09, 2010, 11:14:21 am
New forms of Chinese torture are being invented as we speak!  :lol:  But seriously... if you have one of these in the house and your kids' friends come over and think it would be fun to blind the cat... :doubt:  Well... then again... it's not like pencil torches aren't readily available and they can do just as much damage.  And they only cost $10...
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Snail on July 09, 2010, 11:18:57 am
New forms of Chinese torture are being invented as we speak!  :lol:  But seriously... if you have one of these in the house and your kids' friends come over and think it would be fun to blind the cat... :doubt:  Well... then again... it's not like pencil torches aren't readily available and they can do just as much damage.  And they only cost $10...
AFAIK, pen lasers don't really burn skin or set things on fire.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: MR_T3D on July 09, 2010, 11:24:41 am
just hope some mainstream news organization doesn't get wind of this and run with it.

actually, this seems like a 0.9 version of a useable infantry laser weapon system, just make it a little more powerful and maybe look like a gun, as-is it looks like the force lance from andromada, minus extension mode and it shoots beam instead of bolt, but down the line.

though the bit where it sets you on fire might not be cool with Geneva convention.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Scotty on July 09, 2010, 11:26:49 am
So, what, is it just functionally a cross between a laser pointer and a lighter?
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: redsniper on July 09, 2010, 12:14:25 pm
It's just a really powerful laser.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: chief1983 on July 09, 2010, 12:44:32 pm
Johnny 5 is one step closer to being alive
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: watsisname on July 09, 2010, 01:17:00 pm
New forms of Chinese torture are being invented as we speak!  :lol:  But seriously... if you have one of these in the house and your kids' friends come over and think it would be fun to blind the cat... :doubt:  Well... then again... it's not like pencil torches aren't readily available and they can do just as much damage.  And they only cost $10...
AFAIK, pen lasers don't really burn skin or set things on fire.

Actually, quite a few brands of intermediate (100-500mW) lasers come with keys and a safety switch so that random people can't pick them up and use them in the name of stupid.

Flipside:  Agree 100%.  I've heard about and seen people do really dumb*** stuff with high-power lasers.  Like point them at something slightly reflective and then wonder why their eyes hurt like all hell. :rolleyes:

Example:  friend of mine, against my better advice, tried shining a 250mW green laser at a street sign ~50ft away once.  He spent the next few minutes sitting down on the ground with his hands over his face.   His eyes turned out fine though, as I expected.  Just flash-blinded him momentarily.  :lol:

Related lesson:  Never attempt find out if a 20+W infrared CO2 laser is functioning properly by putting your hand in front of the emitter.  (ouch)
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: perihelion on July 09, 2010, 02:19:56 pm
Related lesson:  Never attempt find out if a 20+W infrared CO2 laser is functioning properly by putting your hand in front of the emitter.  (ouch)
****ing hell, man!  Are you serious?

I used to work in a lab where I was using a frequency tunable dye laser for induced fluorescence spectroscopy.  We used a Nd:YAG laser as the pump to get the dye to lase.  I do not remember the wattage on that YAG laser, but I can tell you that we were using a Marx bank the size of an industrial strength microwave oven (think back to your days in the college mess hall) to power it.  We needed a beam in the UV range (355 nm) to pump the dye laser, but the primary beam from the Nd:YAG is at 1064 nm before we split part of it off for frequency doubling.  The UV laser beam I needed was bright as hell, but it was only a scant fraction of the power in the infrared beam.

Once, for kicks, I scooted the beam-dump back an inch and stuck a business card into the path of the infrared beam.  I thought it would set the business card on fire.  It didn't.  The damn thing exploded.  Completely tore a hole through it.  I eventually worked out that the water in the card fibers was heated and flashed to steam so fast that the expanding steam couldn't get out of the paper fibers fast enough.  So it exploded.

I stopped screwing with the laser after that.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 09, 2010, 03:52:28 pm
Once, for kicks, I scooted the beam-dump back an inch and stuck a business card into the path of the infrared beam.  I thought it would set the business card on fire.  It didn't.  The damn thing exploded.  Completely tore a hole through it.  I eventually worked out that the water in the card fibers was heated and flashed to steam so fast that the expanding steam couldn't get out of the paper fibers fast enough.  So it exploded.

Congradulations, you know now exactly how a weapons-grade laser works: by causing a series of vapor explosions to put a hole in the target.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: watsisname on July 09, 2010, 04:00:28 pm
Related lesson:  Never attempt find out if a 20+W infrared CO2 laser is functioning properly by putting your hand in front of the emitter.  (ouch)
****ing hell, man!  Are you serious?

I used to work in a lab where I was using a frequency tunable dye laser for induced fluorescence spectroscopy.  We used a Nd:YAG laser as the pump to get the dye to lase.  I do not remember the wattage on that YAG laser, but I can tell you that we were using a Marx bank the size of an industrial strength microwave oven (think back to your days in the college mess hall) to power it.  We needed a beam in the UV range (355 nm) to pump the dye laser, but the primary beam from the Nd:YAG is at 1064 nm before we split part of it off for frequency doubling.  The UV laser beam I needed was bright as hell, but it was only a scant fraction of the power in the infrared beam.

Once, for kicks, I scooted the beam-dump back an inch and stuck a business card into the path of the infrared beam.  I thought it would set the business card on fire.  It didn't.  The damn thing exploded.  Completely tore a hole through it.  I eventually worked out that the water in the card fibers was heated and flashed to steam so fast that the expanding steam couldn't get out of the paper fibers fast enough.  So it exploded.

I stopped screwing with the laser after that.

It wasn't me personally (admittedly I'm pretty dumb, but not THAT dumb) :P  I read it on some site talking about laser-related accidents -- Infrared lasers specifically, since they can be pretty damn powerful as you yourself discovered.  I'd have no way of knowing for sure, but yours was probably in the >100W range if it reacted explosively with paper fiber.  :eek2:  Speaking of which what on earth kind of protection did you use with that thing?
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: perihelion on July 09, 2010, 04:31:46 pm
@watsisname: I had several sets of goggles I used depending on the frequency range of the laser I was working with.  Usually, that meant goggles that were opaque in the 220 nm to 240 nm range.  If I was doing some work where I had to adjust alignment of the beams upstream of the dye laser resonator, I'd have to change to more aggressive goggles that were opaque at 1064 nm and all harmonics (532, 355, etc).  Those goggles turned everything yellowish-orange.

Normally, the beam from the Nd:YAG was completely covered so I didn't have to use those yellow goggles.  The beam was split multiple times, and each branch had to have its own beam dump.  Those had already been purchased before I signed up for the project, so I'm not positive how they work, but I'd imagine you pick something that has near-zero reflectivity at the frequency of the beam being absorbed, good heat transfer characteristics, and good resistance to thermal shock.

The UV beam coming out of the dye laser wasn't that powerful.  We didn't have to worry about it hurting anything much other than our eyes.  You could let it hit you on the arm and not even feel it.  We deliberately attenuated the beam, not so much for safety, but because we didn't want to saturate the population we were measuring; we wanted to stay in the range where intensity response was more or less linear.

We also had to keep our optics very clean.  I probably spent more time cleaning that room than actually running experiments.  A dirty lens or mirror absorbs too much heat from the beam and either warps, cracks, or both.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: el_magnifico on July 09, 2010, 04:45:58 pm
Once, for kicks, I scooted the beam-dump back an inch and stuck a business card into the path of the infrared beam.  I thought it would set the business card on fire.  It didn't.  The damn thing exploded.  Completely tore a hole through it.  I eventually worked out that the water in the card fibers was heated and flashed to steam so fast that the expanding steam couldn't get out of the paper fibers fast enough.  So it exploded.

Congradulations, you know now exactly how a weapons-grade laser works: by causing a series of vapor explosions to put a hole in the target.
So what would a proper armor against such a weapon consist of? A material with low heat transfer? A reflective material?

I know nothing about physics. Hence the question.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: chief1983 on July 09, 2010, 05:13:26 pm
Reflecting light is always good, but you have to be able to reflect enough of it or else you will still overheat, and likely reduce your reflective ability, which will absorb heat even faster, and then either melt or explode.

Low heat transfer might prevent water from blowing up internally but then it still has to do something with the heat at the surface.  It would likely then also need a very high resistance to heat, or some means of dissipating it elsewhere.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: perihelion on July 09, 2010, 05:23:38 pm
There are several strategies that you could employ:
1) Ablative armor.  Dissipates the incoming energy from the laser by the heated portions going through a phase change and leaving the rest of the armor behind.  In this case, yes, you want something with a low heat transfer coefficient.
2) Reflective armor.  This is an ideal that is very difficult to achieve in the real world.  As soon as the armor gets dirty, you are screwed.  It is also very difficult to have near-perfect reflectivity except for very narrow wavelength ranges.  If the enemy uses multiple laser types, you'd have serious difficulty reflecting them both.
3) My preferred approach would be highly conductive armor.  Take advantage of the fact that the actual amount of power being imparted by the laser to the armor isn't that much, it is just being focused on a very small area.  Something with a very high thermal conduction coefficient can spread the incoming energy fast enough that the temperature at the location being hit by the beam doesn't get that high.

Any of these approaches can be supplemented by surrounding yourself with gas or mist which causes the beam to scatter and attenuate.

NOT an exhaustive list.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 09, 2010, 05:29:51 pm
So what would a proper armor against such a weapon consist of? A material with low heat transfer? A reflective material?

I know nothing about physics. Hence the question.

Something ablative that vaporizes into high-albedio vapor clouds to diffract the beam, most likely.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: el_magnifico on July 09, 2010, 05:41:18 pm
Which of those solutions would be more easily combined with other kinds of armor in order to achieve a more comprehensive protection? (for example, an armor against lasers and ballistics weapons).
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Kosh on July 09, 2010, 07:38:16 pm
Wake me when they invent phasors.
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: General Battuta on July 09, 2010, 08:04:25 pm
So what would a proper armor against such a weapon consist of? A material with low heat transfer? A reflective material?

I know nothing about physics. Hence the question.

Something ablative that vaporizes into high-albedio vapor clouds to diffract the beam, most likely.

Boron armor, or a good ablative, will trip the amount of energy required to kill a target by armor vaporization. There were some pretty extensive studies done during the Star Wars program.

Mirrors aren't very effective at all.

Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: Titan on July 09, 2010, 08:53:29 pm
You guys are such geeks  :p

(no offense, just funny how you almost instantly went from oooh, ahhhh to discussing military grade lasers)
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: watsisname on July 10, 2010, 07:03:53 am
We know this already (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=61564.msg1215807#msg1215807) :P

space stiffies
Title: Re: I'm firin' muh lazor!
Post by: jr2 on July 11, 2010, 07:38:18 pm
Exactly how geeky are you (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70332) guys?