Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 06:08:29 pm

Title: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 06:08:29 pm
Hey chaps,

In addition to the hostile SSM message change/fix and the patch for that reinforcement bug I mantised, could I just inquire as to why wings can't arrive from a player fighterbay?

Sorry to be a nag.  :nervous:
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 08, 2010, 07:11:11 pm
Well I could see it becoming a mess with respawns in multi.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 07:26:36 pm
Well I could see it becoming a mess with respawns in multi.

How so?
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 08, 2010, 08:14:24 pm
OK ship arrival is say Beta 2.  Beta 2 dies and respawns.  Being a player he is still Beta 2 but Beta 2 is logged as dead.  So we now introduce fighters arriving from bays of dead ships. 
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: The E on July 08, 2010, 08:22:42 pm
That's a good reason why it shouldn't work in Multi, but what about singleplayer?
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 08, 2010, 08:49:05 pm
Works in single not in multi = mantis bug report.

Is there even support in single for ships arriving from a capship in a wing that isn't in the first wave?  If you set arrival to Gamma 1 and Gamma 7 is there??????/

See big can of worms.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 09:03:12 pm
Huh?  :confused:

First off, aren't there dozens of single features that don't work in multi? Cutscene stuff, what have you?

Second, I'm not sure I understand the 'can of worms' scenario you're outlining. I'd like Beta Wing to arrive from a fighterbay on the player (Alpha 1's) ship.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 08, 2010, 09:10:50 pm
OK  but what if your wingmen (or gamma wing) are flying ships with fighterbays as well and those ships have wings set to arrive from them and there is more then one wave of the caps?

Should the AI ships be able to call their own reinforcments?

And yes there are sexps which work in single but not multi but that is mostly because there were years of no one giving a crap about multi. 
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 09:17:05 pm
Well, put simply, they won't be.

This is an extraordinarily special-case behavior. I doubt the scenarios you're describing would ever arise in multi.

The burden should be on the FREDder to create missions that don't crash Multi. Especially when the scenarios are as arcane as this one.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: Shade on July 08, 2010, 10:17:57 pm
Quote
First off, aren't there dozens of single features that don't work in multi? Cutscene stuff, what have you?
Yes, but not intentionally, simply due to certain limitations in the current network code. And the fact that these things don't work in multi annoys the hell out of me on a regular basis, let me tell you, so don't you dare use that fact to promote even more things that won't work in multi :p

Cutscene SEXPs, for example. I -need- those for a certain mission I've been planning, and they would greatly enhance others. Just this week I've had to lobotomize part of the narrative in a mission because the SEXPs I needed did not work in multi.

But getting back to the topic, if there are things which for one reason or another could be nice to have in SP, but simply shouldn't work in multi because they'd cause major problems if they did, I can't see why that should be a reason to not allow them in SP. The two don't have to be 100% identical in features, and as long as it is a measured decision rather than laziness or a limitation in the code that is behind it, I have no problem with it.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2010, 11:45:51 pm
I just can't imagine the player ever flying anything with a fighterbay outside of the context of a very specific, very heavily scripted single player mission.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on July 09, 2010, 12:40:31 am
Really?  In B5 Whitestars were able to carry at least one fighter (have to check facts on how many).  So why wouldn't someone want to try and FRED a mission where each player can launch a fighter in a TvT?  Why wouldn't someone want a wing of caps capable of launching fighters in single? 

The point I'm trying t make is that allowing the behavior without doing some major thought is just asking for trouble.  If it's allowed it should be allowed for both single and multi and coded correctly the first time.  No toss it in and hope no one tries something. 
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 09, 2010, 12:43:12 am
Okay, I guess that makes sense. And I do respect that.

Just sinks any hope of a quick patch before an imminent release.  ;)
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: Aardwolf on July 10, 2010, 12:08:45 am
Okay, I guess that makes sense. And I do respect that.

Just sinks any hope of a quick patch before an imminent release.  ;)

Is this where your sticking to doing everything in FRED instead of doing a little Lua-scripting comes to bite you in the butt?
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2010, 12:10:24 am
Okay, I guess that makes sense. And I do respect that.

Just sinks any hope of a quick patch before an imminent release.  ;)

Is this where your sticking to doing everything in FRED instead of doing a little Lua-scripting comes to bite you in the butt?

Explain to me how that makes any sense in light of the extensive scripting we use?

We have a LUA expert on-staff who has been working his ass off.

Don't think scripting would be of particular help here.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2010, 12:15:07 am
I mean, seriously, do you think this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=25406.msg1389528#msg1389528) is all done without any scripting?
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: Aardwolf on July 10, 2010, 12:53:32 am
Well, from the way you shot down a previous suggestion someone made related to scripting, it seemed like you were sticking to FRED-only...

Which, needless to say, sounds like a stupid idea to me...
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2010, 01:07:29 am
Well, from the way you shot down a previous suggestion someone made related to scripting, it seemed like you were sticking to FRED-only...

Which, needless to say, sounds like a stupid idea to me...


That suggestion was related to a mission that was intended to run on vanilla FreeSpace Open, no mod.
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: Aardwolf on July 10, 2010, 01:38:19 am
Well, from the way you shot down a previous suggestion someone made related to scripting, it seemed like you were sticking to FRED-only...

Which, needless to say, sounds like a stupid idea to me...


That suggestion was related to a mission that was intended to run on vanilla FreeSpace Open, no mod.

Now I'm not even sure whether we're talking about the same thing. Not that it matters... Good to hear you're not trying to do all that stuff without any scripting, after all!   :P
Title: Re: Feature request: wing arrival from player fighterbay
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2010, 01:49:08 am
Well, from the way you shot down a previous suggestion someone made related to scripting, it seemed like you were sticking to FRED-only...

Which, needless to say, sounds like a stupid idea to me...


That suggestion was related to a mission that was intended to run on vanilla FreeSpace Open, no mod.

Now I'm not even sure whether we're talking about the same thing. Not that it matters... Good to hear you're not trying to do all that stuff without any scripting, after all!   :P

The previous suggestion was related to the FreeSpace Tower Defense concept, was it not?

Yes, it was.