Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Hades on July 14, 2010, 10:58:58 pm

Title: GTD Capella
Post by: Hades on July 14, 2010, 10:58:58 pm: Does anyone still have the GTD Capella that SPECTRE87 made? The link in his old thread is gone, and I'm afraid to ask him for it because if anyone gave him any criticism about it, he probably deleted it.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: blowfish on July 14, 2010, 11:15:44 pm: I've got it. It's still an SKP though.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Hades on July 14, 2010, 11:17:53 pm: Quote from: blowfish on July 14, 2010, 11:15:44 pm
I've got it. It's still an SKP though.
Can you maybe export it to obj or 3ds? I remember someone wanting to finish it (perhaps Esarai) but I don't remember. Since I've learned how to UV Map I'll probably just try to finish it myself if no one else wants to.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: blowfish on July 14, 2010, 11:27:35 pm: Fine, here you go (http://www.game-warden.com/earthdefence/staff_files/blowfish/Capella_HTL_2.3ds.zip).

(3ds)
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Hades on July 14, 2010, 11:29:23 pm: Thank you, Blowfish. You have just saved humanity blah blah blah
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2010, 03:36:12 am: Got any more of that fine man's models?
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Black Wolf on July 15, 2010, 07:46:52 am: That's a damned pretty ship. :D UV Prease!
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 15, 2010, 08:08:41 am: Any chance of a screenshot... I don't recall what this ship looked like.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2010, 08:22:53 am: The attached screenshot does not do this ship justice.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Angelus on July 15, 2010, 08:28:27 am: Maybe this fullsize pic does... :nervous:

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/GTDCapella.png)

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/GTDCapellarear.png)
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2010, 08:35:02 am: Mmmmmmmm. :yes:
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 15, 2010, 09:54:12 am: Cool. I can't make out any obvious fighterbay... unless those tiny gaps on the front of the engine nacelles are ones. If so, then it makes that ship look QUITE big.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 15, 2010, 09:55:45 am: That ships is all business, it isn't in your face hardass but looking at it you know it will put you in a world of hurt
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 09:58:25 am: Not sure about the size, but I think it would look good being slightly smaller than an Orion, as it seems to be something with the firepower of a Destroyer, but without any fighter support at all.

Also, judging by the number of visible turrets, it has severe deficiencies in AA coverage, I think.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 10:36:01 am: A mini-destroyer/super-corvette would be perfect for this ship and actually useful for FREDders.

Please god not another destroyer.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 10:40:00 am: Agreed. Something to flesh out the "Frigate" designation the Iceni apparently has cornered for itself.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2010, 11:12:47 am: Maybe 1.5km? 1km seems a tad small.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 11:14:10 am: Sounds right to me.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 15, 2010, 11:29:28 am: and light anti-fighter screams escort and close support roles while on the offensive which is good for plot (though not so good on players nerves :lol: )
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 15, 2010, 11:31:17 am: It has a really bad broadside. 4 turrets.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 15, 2010, 11:33:35 am: and ohh so FS2, good on the offensive but its screwed if it gets jumped
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 11:35:15 am: Which means that it's like the Bellerophon or Chimera, it's a good jump ambusher.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Commander Zane on July 15, 2010, 11:49:40 am: It'll be awesome if this one actually comes through.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Angelus on July 15, 2010, 12:00:41 pm: Well, it has those fancy heavy Missile launchers. Screw beamzors, Nukes FTW!

Make it a small but fast Assaultcraft ( ~700m length ), rather a Nuke-wielding Gunboat then a Frigate.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Mobius on July 15, 2010, 12:40:21 pm: I like the design, I can't wait to see it ingame. May work nicely as a small carrier, if it's less than 1.5kms in length.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Droid803 on July 15, 2010, 12:44:22 pm: I think 1200-1500m sounds pretty good. (between corvette and Orion :D)
Destroyer-level firepower, be it torpedoes railguns or beams, jump-ambush config.
Doesn't really needs it minihangars but they don't hurt.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 12:45:36 pm: Smaller please. Somewhere between a corvette and an Orion, so it can actually be used in-game.

We don't need any more godawful destroyers useful only as set-piece plot points. The existing ones are terrifyingly difficult to handle believably as it is.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Mobius on July 15, 2010, 12:52:44 pm: Why not? Destroyers are always welcome. I see there's a lack of ships filling the gap between corvettes/frigates and destroyers, but it's not good (IMHO) to alter the original size of a ship or sutff like anti-spacecraft and anti-warship capabilities may be altered as well.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 12:57:08 pm: There are a lot of fan-made destroyers and none of them are particularly interesting in terms of player interaction. Corvettes and frigates are the sweet spot: small enough to maneuver, small enough to hurt, small enough for good turret coverage, big enough to survive a lot of damage and pose a real threat.

Destroyers are basically giant props. We don't need giant props, we need fun gameplay elements, otherwise you end up with Dawn of Sol all over again.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 12:57:31 pm: There are more than enough ships in the Destroyer, Superdestroyer and Juggernaught range. This ship, while it was designed to be in the Destroyer range, actually looks more like something that would be right for the "Bigger than a Corvette" category (aka Frigate).
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Mobius on July 15, 2010, 01:08:59 pm: It's more or less a matter of respect towards the original author, IMHO. If Spectre87's ship was supposed to be a destroyer, then it should become a destroyer. Modders will be free to edit its table entry and whoever is going to bring this beauty ingame can add more turrets, but I believe the original size and overall shape of the ship should remain as they are.

If an alternate (hence separate) version of the ship filling the requirements can be done, fine. Otherwise, I don't see the point in changing that way someone else's plans due to the shortage of light carriers/destroyers.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 01:10:31 pm: As far as I'm concerned the model is abandoned and up for grabs in terms of creative control.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: The E on July 15, 2010, 01:13:31 pm: Pretty much, yeah. SPECTRE87 hasn't been here in months.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Commander Zane on July 15, 2010, 01:14:11 pm: True, I don't think any of his ships are going to be touched by himself any time soon, if ever.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Mobius on July 15, 2010, 01:22:41 pm: What if he comes back and wonders why the original size of his ship without a valid reason? Think about this possibility for a moment.

AFAIK I see no harm in keeping the original size.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 01:24:36 pm: I doubt he'd get any angrier than when he left.

He can feel free to finish the model as a destroyer if he comes back. In effect he turned it over to the community.

The 'harm' is that the ship will be about 60% less useful. Ultimately, it's up to whoever gets the job done.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Hades on July 15, 2010, 01:32:27 pm: Quote from: Commander Zane on July 15, 2010, 01:14:11 pm
True, I don't think any of his ships are going to be touched by himself any time soon, if ever.
As long as we don't criticize his ships in any way... :p

Spoiler:
In case you're new here and do not get the joke, he'd delete his models whenever anyone gave him any criticism about them, even constructive.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Mobius on July 15, 2010, 01:34:52 pm: If there's wide consensus on altering the ship's original size go ahead, we'll respect the choice. Otherwise, I support the idea of leaving the size as it is to respect the original author.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2010, 01:36:48 pm: I can see both sides, and I do respect Mobius' point. But I gotta admit I'm much more likely to ctrl-click this thing down in FRED if it's not Yet Another Awesome But Impractical Destroyer.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 15, 2010, 01:38:55 pm: importing the model into blender the naming conventions on the different parts suggest the armament is

6 Bgreen - 2 front, 1 each side, 1 dorsal, 1 ventral
8 heavy missile - 4 dorsal, 4 ventral, all in line along the front-rear axis grouped at the centre
6 large turrets with no indication about use, they could be blobs
3 Missile, one on each upper shoulder one where the engines meet the rest of the hull lower side
16 small_bar, no idea, they look like point defence laser or flack type
4 Torpedo alongside the forward beam turrets

I see no typical anti fighter beam mountings and all but the bgreen and the various missile type points are multi-part turrets.

also the two holes in the front of the side engine mounts look very much like hanger access points.

the radars top and bottom look to be moddeld ready to be made as rotating sub systems.

The only thing missing is textures and empties/special points/helpers
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: blowfish on July 15, 2010, 08:52:29 pm: You know, the scale of the ship is dependent on very little. Textures, turrets, even a lot of POF data can be done without even worrying about the scale. What I'm trying to say is - it might be acceptable to have two versions - one destroyer scale and one smaller (though for a full destroyer it would benefit from a few more turrets on its broadside...)

And for anyone wondering, I'm pretty sure that the holes in the front of the engine nacelles are intended to be hangar entrances.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Angelus on July 16, 2010, 02:52:26 am: Quote from: blowfish on July 15, 2010, 08:52:29 pm
You know, the scale of the ship is dependent on very little. Textures, turrets, even a lot of POF data can be done without even worrying about the scale. What I'm trying to say is - it might be acceptable to have two versions - one destroyer scale and one smaller (though for a full destroyer it would benefit from a few more turrets on its broadside...)

And for anyone wondering, I'm pretty sure that the holes in the front of the engine nacelles are intended to be hangar entrances.

Sounds like an Plan, but assuming there are going to be 2 versions, i suggest to alter the smaller version.
Having a exact copy isn't a good idea, and i don't mean only different textures.
The Hangar thingies should be closed, turrets placed in different places, the missile launchers removed and some small changes to the overall geometry.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Snail on July 16, 2010, 07:32:25 am: Yeah on the frigate sized version, the hangars would probably not make much sense at all.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: FelixJim on July 16, 2010, 09:56:12 am: A small hangar for a wing or two could still be useful for minor repairs in the field and such, if a frigate + fighter support team was to be away from anything destroyer or larger size for any length of time.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2010, 10:36:58 am: Or escape pods!

Keep those hangars.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Woolie Wool on July 16, 2010, 10:52:11 am: Quote from: Snail on July 16, 2010, 07:32:25 am
Yeah on the frigate sized version, the hangars would probably not make much sense at all.
Why? The USS Nimitz is smaller than an FS2 cruiser but can hold around 80 aircraft. The proportion of a destroyer's space devoted to fighters is probably rather small.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 01:58:19 pm: This ship wouldn't happen to come in a more... managable format?
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 16, 2010, 02:06:48 pm: I'v imported it to blender but have yet to set the object tree back up, what format do you need?

edit:

I have noticed there is a minor issue with the geometry, the heavy plating along the upper central region is not symmetrical as there is a space missing, the geometry work has been started but it needs a few faces deleting to finish it
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:23:11 pm: If I import .3ds in max it becomes an editable mesh which is a mess to work with. Is this not the case for Blender?
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Angelus on July 16, 2010, 02:31:28 pm: Quote from: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:23:11 pm
If I import .3ds in max it becomes an editable mesh which is a mess to work with. Is this not the case for Blender?

can you be more specific?
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 16, 2010, 02:32:23 pm: if there was material information and a properly set up object tree blander hasn't picked it up but everything is in separate objects where you would expect so I wont have to hack the model into pieces to make the different parts work as shown below. sorting the geometry tree out is going to be a pain (edit: due to the number of turrets) but not difficult. Hull1_FrontCol is the name of the main object.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:35:46 pm: Quote from: Angelus on July 16, 2010, 02:31:28 pm
Quote from: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:23:11 pm
If I import .3ds in max it becomes an editable mesh which is a mess to work with. Is this not the case for Blender?

can you be more specific?
About how much of a mess it is to work with?
Well for one, every single polygon seem to act like its a seperate object, its no longer attached to the ones next to it. Unwrapping it for a map produces a puzzle of hunderds of seperate little faces etc.
In short, its uneditable for me.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: headdie on July 16, 2010, 02:43:20 pm: looks like it does but in blender select all and remove doubles tools fixed all but a few small regions which didn't join for some reason
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Scooby_Doo on July 17, 2010, 12:06:45 am: Quote from: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:23:11 pm
If I import .3ds in max it becomes an editable mesh which is a mess to work with. Is this not the case for Blender?

That's how 3ds files are imported. You can then switch it over to poly if you need to.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: blowfish on July 17, 2010, 02:41:59 am: Quote from: Spoon on July 16, 2010, 02:35:46 pm
Well for one, every single polygon seem to act like its a seperate object, its no longer attached to the ones next to it. Unwrapping it for a map produces a puzzle of hunderds of seperate little faces etc.
In short, its uneditable for me.

3ds file split everything like that. I'm not sure how you remove duplicate vertices in max so just listen to Scooby :D

Quote from: headdie on July 16, 2010, 02:32:23 pm
if there was material information and a properly set up object tree blander hasn't picked it

There was never any material or uv information.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Scooby_Doo on July 17, 2010, 03:20:56 pm: Conversions are always a pain in the butt. The easiest way to fix the broken up vertices is to go into vertex mode, select all the vertices, try using weld selected threshold at 0.01. (in Edit Mesh it's the 0.1 thats right next to Weld->Selected, in Edit Poly, it's the box thats right next to Edit Vertices->Weld). That should get the vertex count down to normal. (if it combines vertices that it shouldn't, use a smaller number).

Also if you use polygon mode normally, you'll want to remove the unnecessary edges. The easiest way to do that is to go into Edge mode in Edit Mesh, then select all the edges, and finally Surface Properties->Auto Edge choose something like 6 instead of 24 [for the angle], then click Auto Edge. It's not 100% fool proof, but it'll get rid of a lot of unnecessary edges. If it gets rid of some that are actually required, you should be able to go into Edit Mesh->enter Edge Mode, select the edge and click Surface Properties->Visible.
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Spoon on July 19, 2010, 09:46:39 am: Thanks Scoob, that helped!
Title: Re: GTD Capella
Post by: Commander Zane on August 15, 2010, 07:34:12 am: I've been wondering how things were going with the Capella, has a verdict been reached on its class?