Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: mjn.mixael on July 16, 2010, 11:10:00 am
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With the big leap forward that has gone into getting old HTL ships done, I figured I would post this.
FreespaceFreak sent me this when I first started work on the cutscene upgrade project. It's his WIP Arcadia in DAE format.
Right now I'm focusing my efforts on EndGame and the Terran Pilot mesh. Anyone willing to take a stab at finishing this one up?
http://www.mediafire.com/?zgujy3wggge (http://www.mediafire.com/?zgujy3wggge)
PS: Hope you don't mind that I posted this FreespaceFreak.
EDIT: Here is ragingloli's version which is much closer to completion. http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558 (http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558)
I don't much care for ragingloli's circle hole rather than the hexagon.. but I'm not incredibly picky. Whatever finished product ends up in the VPs will end up in the cutscene. Perhaps some sort of merging of styles here? I leave in the hands of the pros.
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That looks very nice. Would be awesome if it could be combined with ragingloli's for extra awesome.
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I loved how ragingloli's Arcadia looked.
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As do I, but I can see people not liking the circular hole. If that can be retrofitted, it would be cool.
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Can and will :)
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Great! :D
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The circular hole would make sense if it was a joint vasudan-terran design, but it isn't. It's FS1 era. Curviness looks incongruous next to blocky things like the Apollo and the Orion.
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Yeah.. I'm REALLY gonna push for hexagon shaped hole.
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Can and will :)
You just never stop giving us goodies, do you? Keep up the good work!
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/me joins the Conservative Hexagon Party.
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I totally want the circular hole.
So, for the sake of this community, which seems divided about this matter, do both. This could avoid a Civil War, you'd be a hero!!
The conservative Hexagonists can have their hexagonshaped hole on the station as default HTL, while we, the Imperial Democratic Circulator party, can have the circularshaped ( the better one ) HTL Arcadia as replacement.
Edit: No Rectums in Space!
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That would be my preferred solution as well. We have a lack of really awesome and usable stations, and having two variants of the same basic design would be good.
One thing occured to me though, we really need to have the hexagonal variant, because IIRC there are extensions that are supposed to be put in there.
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I totally want the circular hole.
So, for the sake of this community, which seems divided about this matter, do both. This could avoid a Civil War, you'd be a hero!!
The conservative Hexagonists can have their rectumshaped hole on the station as default HTL, while we, the Imperial Democratic Circulator party, can have the circularshaped ( the better one ) HTL Arcadia as replacement.
If your rectum is hexagonal you should consult a physician.
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You don't see how that would work right??... it's rounded because it was supposed to spin around.
But they didn't have enough time to finish it :nervous:
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I totally want the circular hole.
So, for the sake of this community, which seems divided about this matter, do both. This could avoid a Civil War, you'd be a hero!!
The conservative Hexagonists can have their rectumshaped hole on the station as default HTL, while we, the Imperial Democratic Circulator party, can have the circularshaped ( the better one ) HTL Arcadia as replacement.
If your rectum is hexagonal you should consult a physician.
Duh, i meant hexagons, wasn't talking about anyones rectum.
Dunno why or how the **** that happened.
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Actually, if the hole was circular but had the same hexagonal glowmap around it, that would be awesome to me. But the girding you see in the original maps suggests that the hexagon is intentional, wethere because the _couldn't_ make it a circle when it was originally made or because they didn't _want_ it to be a circle is anybody's guess.
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Perhaps some sort of curvey but mechanical look, like the plated curved section on top of the (admittedly fs2-era) Deimos?
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It should be left hexagonal so the GTEX_ extensions will fit properly.
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/me joins the Conservative Hexagon Party.
I agree for a variety of reasons.
First of all, the hexagon matches FS1's Terran style perfectly and its popularity among players is impressive enough to make such a radical change odd (not to mention the fact that it won't look like, for example, the Arcadia we see in FS1's Intro cutscene). Secondly, and more importantly I'd say, using a circular hole may cause problems: the hole is used in many campaigns as a place where ships can hide and/or pass through. If we change the overall shape of the hole, weird problems may occur.
It should be left hexagonal so the GTEX_ extensions will fit properly.
That as well. :nod:
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Hex version for MediaVPs, Round version for modders/fredders, plz.
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both versions are planned. Shouldn't be overly hard.
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overall fs1 terran aesthetics would suggest that such holes would be more angular in nature ... or something like that
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both versions are planned. Shouldn't be overly hard.
Ooooookay took a closer look at the mesh. The mesh will require severe detail boxing to even run, and running well is iffy. It has over twice the amount of polys of the hatty.
Also, this does not appear UV mapped, or at least I cannot get them to load. If anyone can and can export to .dae, I would heart you.
I'm not saying it cannot be done... I am saying it will hurt.
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It had textures. It was never UVMapped though. Also IIRC the mesh isn't solid.
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Yeah, I've played around with RagingLoli's Arcadia before, and it wasn't pretty. But the other one looks great. Can we do something with that?
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PS: Hope you don't mind that I posted this FreespaceFreak.
Heh, that's alright, I had kinda given up on it myself, after failing to come up with anything for the docking plate.
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both versions are planned. Shouldn't be overly hard.
Ooooookay took a closer look at the mesh. The mesh will require severe detail boxing to even run, and running well is iffy. It has over twice the amount of polys of the hatty.
Also, this does not appear UV mapped, or at least I cannot get them to load. If anyone can and can export to .dae, I would heart you.
I'm not saying it cannot be done... I am saying it will hurt.
I'm going to guess that it's a high-poly render that hasn't had normals baked yet?
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Mesh is no where near solid. It could be a render version, but that still doesn't help any.
I'll look into possible finishing freespacefreaks.
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What about Vasudan Admiral or Esarai's versions?
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What about Vasudan Admiral or Esarai's versions?
I don't think that was even mentioned in the thread previously. Link plox?
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Short of VA or Esarai's versions popping up, I wonder If I could combine the finished portions of Ragingloli's to complete the unfinished portions of FreeSpaceFreaks. I can fix the mesh errors (the Hatty is evidence of that) and I can UV map. What cannot do (at least very well) is make good textures from scratch. This project might pull through.
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Weren't there textures included in the download for ragingloli's version (This one: http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558 )?
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Yeah.
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Can comparitive screens of the two models be put up at this point?
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Yes, that would be a good idea.
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FSF version:
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/FSFArcadia.png)
Raginglolis version :
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/RlolArcadia.png)
and both of them side by side:
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/Both.png)
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Eh, it's alright.
BUT WHAT ABOUT VA'S VERSION
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Uhm... definitely needs to be less block-ish, IMHO.
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I still like Ragingloli's more from what I recall, but for the GTA style this model does work better.
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This seems to be VA's version:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Arcadia/Arcadia-HTLWIP11.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Arcadia/Arcadia-HTLWIP10.jpg)
Also, edited previous post, nao with moar Arcadian Goodness. :D
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I don't remember those holes in ragingloli's arcadia mesh....
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Now that I think of it, despite the lack of everything else on VA's Arcadia it looks a lot better than the same part on FSF's.
Ragingloli's still makes for a good Post-Capella redesign.
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I don't remember those holes in ragingloli's arcadia mesh....
That's the one from the link of the OP, can't do much in hurry to fix those holes.
Does anyone has another version of the Arcadia from Ragingloli? Preferably in .Max or 3DS...
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I got this one: http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558
There's a 3ds and an obj in there.
When imported into Blender, the 3ds seems broken.
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I got this one: http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558
there's a 3ds and an obj in there.
This is the one i mentioned in in my post.
mjn.mixael posted the link in the first post, i hope there is another version.
EDIT: Added another shot, both versions side by side.
EDIT2:
I got this one: http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.558
There's a 3ds and an obj in there.
When imported into Blender, the 3ds seems broken.
Both seem to be messed up, as the .obj looks almost the same like the .3DS for me.
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I personally think you should take a few of the details from ragingloli's and put it on FSF's, but do that for the Media VPs. Modders can do what they want with Ragingloli's on its own (which severely degrades performance judging by that amount of detail).
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Hurm.. I don't see why there are holes, since I used the program the original filetype was associated to. I may have to go dig up both the program and original model again.
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Hurm.. I don't see why there are holes, since I used the program the original filetype was associated to. I may have to go dig up both the program and original model again.
Yes please!
What is the source file format? Wasn't ragingloli work with Sketchup?
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He works with Cinema 4D IIRC.
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He works with Cinema 4D IIRC.
Yeah, I can confirm this.
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I'd take Ragingloli's, but with the circular hole turned back into hexagonal.
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I hate feeling like a noob in here, whats the trick to installing RL's arcadia from FSMODS, which files go where in the mediavps/data...
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I hate feeling like a noob in here, whats the trick to installing RL's arcadia from FSMODS, which files go where in the mediavps/data...
No need to feel noobish, just ask.
Regarding your question: Do not even try.
That's just a WIP mesh, it's not finished, not optimized and not remotly ready for ingame usage.
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Does it even have textures?
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Well, there are textures in that download, but the model itself seems to lack mapping data.
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So everyone knows, I do intend to get some form of an HTL ARcadia in game. I've drafted up ideas on how I could work the detail boxing to get this puppy playable, and I strongly feel this can work out. That being said, the Hatty is undergoing some updates (its a surprise...) and intend to finish the Hatty before taking on yet another project.
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I'd take Ragingloli's, but with the circular hole turned back into hexagonal.
I disagree. It was obvious from the old model, that it was meant to be a circular hole and was only made a hexagon because what polygon limits were in '98.
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If they wanted a circle they could've made it 8 or 12 sides. It's not like adding 20 or so polygons would have made a big difference. Besides, there are several extensions to the Arcadia that fit tightly into the hole, so it needs to retain its original shape.
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I'd take Ragingloli's, but with the circular hole turned back into hexagonal.
I disagree. It was obvious from the old model, that it was meant to be a circular hole and was only made a hexagon because what polygon limits were in '98.
try '96 :p
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Still, the hexagonal shape has not been reworked for FS2, and has been assumed to be what the designers wanted. Changing it, especially given those extensions that were made to fit them, is a bad idea for the mediavps model.
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They could have done better for something that big. Hexagonal gun barrels that are meant to be round? Sure. A design element on a centerpiece model that is, by itself, larger than most of the game's other ships? They could have rounded it off if they needed to. Plus the texture mapping and model smoothing backs up the Hex-intention theory.
That said, RagingLoli's model could make a nice post-Capella Arcadia retrofit. :)
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While I think a updated Arcadia could be made to look fantastic either way, I have to disagree with the idea that the devs originally wanted the center piece to be hex. I think, like a few others, that poly limits of the day probably had more to do with that decision than anything. Design elements around that hex shape were likely put there to offset the low-poly blockiness of it. I believe that were FS2 being made now by the same devs, with our current crop of available hardware in mind, you wouldn't have seen a Arcadia with a hexagonal opening like that. I have to believe that they would have ended up with something closer to resembling ragingloli's. Nevertheless, going with the hex shape isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be made to look good as well, so I'm definitely looking forward to see how this turns out.
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Hex for Mediavps, then make a rounded one for people to use if they want to.
So simple, why are people still arguing about it? :rolleyes:
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Doesn't seem like any argument is going on really, just different ideas being tossed around. Regardless, the idea of having 2 models like that is probably the best route to take, whatever someone's preference between round or hex might be. Perhaps take an approach similar to the Cain/Lilith, having it essentially the exact same model with the only real difference being that center area.
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While I think a updated Arcadia could be made to look fantastic either way, I have to disagree with the idea that the devs originally wanted the center piece to be hex. I think, like a few others, that poly limits of the day probably had more to do with that decision than anything. Design elements around that hex shape were likely put there to offset the low-poly blockiness of it. I believe that were FS2 being made now by the same devs, with our current crop of available hardware in mind, you wouldn't have seen a Arcadia with a hexagonal opening like that. I have to believe that they would have ended up with something closer to resembling ragingloli's. Nevertheless, going with the hex shape isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be made to look good as well, so I'm definitely looking forward to see how this turns out.
Following this logic, the Fenris should be made of cones and tubes. Personally, I'd find that distasteful.
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While I think a updated Arcadia could be made to look fantastic either way, I have to disagree with the idea that the devs originally wanted the center piece to be hex. I think, like a few others, that poly limits of the day probably had more to do with that decision than anything. Design elements around that hex shape were likely put there to offset the low-poly blockiness of it. I believe that were FS2 being made now by the same devs, with our current crop of available hardware in mind, you wouldn't have seen a Arcadia with a hexagonal opening like that. I have to believe that they would have ended up with something closer to resembling ragingloli's. Nevertheless, going with the hex shape isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be made to look good as well, so I'm definitely looking forward to see how this turns out.
Following this logic, the Fenris should be made of cones and tubes. Personally, I'd find that distasteful.
Depends on how it's done.
Still, the hexagonal shape has not been reworked for FS2, and has been assumed to be what the designers wanted. Changing it, especially given those extensions that were made to fit them, is a bad idea for the mediavps model.
You do know Volition didn't even touch any of the od FS1 models, and that they just ported them over to the FS2 engine, right? I'm just making sure.
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While I think a updated Arcadia could be made to look fantastic either way, I have to disagree with the idea that the devs originally wanted the center piece to be hex. I think, like a few others, that poly limits of the day probably had more to do with that decision than anything. Design elements around that hex shape were likely put there to offset the low-poly blockiness of it. I believe that were FS2 being made now by the same devs, with our current crop of available hardware in mind, you wouldn't have seen a Arcadia with a hexagonal opening like that. I have to believe that they would have ended up with something closer to resembling ragingloli's. Nevertheless, going with the hex shape isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be made to look good as well, so I'm definitely looking forward to see how this turns out.
The Arcadia was a huge (for FS1) model that you would never see more than one of at a time. If they wanted more detail on the tunnel bit, they could've added it, the polycount upgrade required to change the tunnel to 12 sides or so would not have much. They didn't. The texture mapping actually accents the hexagonal shape rather than hiding it, suggesting that it was there by design. The entire way the model is textured draws the viewer's attention directly to the center bit and its hexagonal shape. It's not a "limitation"; it was made that way on purpose.
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The genreal aesthetics of fs1 terran ships would suggest that such things would be angular.
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I agree that ragingloli's model looks fantastic, but even putting the center hole aside (I'm in the hexagonal camp, for the record), I think it almost looks too smoothed-over, too render-ish, to be used as a MediaVP model. It's one thing to smooth out curves that were obviously on the model in the first place (see: just about every Vasudan ship), but reducing everything on the Arcadia to big sweeping curves makes it lose that big blocky FS1-Terran feel that the retail model conveyed. I'd personally much prefer something like a combination of VA's framework and FSF's overall layout.
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Poly limits in a given mission featuring an arcadia wouldn't be broken by a few more polies in the hex section, but making that section nice & round would have looked a bit out of place when all the other ships at that time were pretty blocky overall, terrans in particular. Back in that day, polycount in a certain scene could get out of hand in a hurry with the average hardware on a pc of the time. Plus, in this situation, to me it's a showdown between "rule of cool" while at the same time avoiding straying too radically from the original design. Staying with a hex-shaped center satisfies both of those, as I know without a doubt that maintaining that shape doesn't at all mean a new Arcadia is going to look any less great for that reason alone. However, if the only thing on the model different was a circular opening as opposed to a hex, that won't come anywhere close to making it unidentifiable for me. Once again the best idea is one that's already been stated... make one of each.
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One of each is cool, but it's easy to request that when we aren't doing the work. I know what it is like to have everyone calling for something that requires a TON of work but may or may not be worth the gain... (Just go read the cutscene upgrade topic).
RgaNoris does some really fantastic work, but we don't want to overwork him. He has a life of his own and should not be at our beck and call whenever we want something our way...
RgaNoris: I would say to only do the round version if you've got the time and/or desire.
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You do realize making a circular and hexagonal hole is not 'a ton of work', right?
Either way, why not make a poll about it?
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You .... haven't read the thread, have you?
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You do realize making a circular and hexagonal hole is not 'a ton of work', right?
You are forgetting everything down the line that needs to happen... Changing the model that much will probably require new UVs, then there is everything involved with the conversion process and getting it into the game.
But if it's really not 'a ton of work'... why don't you do it?
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This whole thing is a ton of work. Neither model is anywhere near even smelling like a convertable mesh. Neither is completely UV'ed. Ragingloli's is Hole-O-Riffic. Once I finish that part, I can make the hexagon. But only then.
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All i can say is that once either one of the models are complete, round or hex, its going to be sex for the eyes.... this has been a long time coming.
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Ok, I'm trying to convert it and I find some bug.
(http://i26.tinypic.com/33xa87m.jpg)
Docking points on the landing plate, from the bottom side. They're seems to be uvmapped from the inner side. I'm not a modeller or uvmapper, so I don't know whether it is a bug but it doesn't look good.
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Ok, I'm trying to convert it and I find some bug.
*snip* Docking points on the landing plate, from the bottom side. They're seems to be uvmapped from the inner side. I'm not a modeller or uvmapper, so I don't know whether it is a bug but it doesn't look good.
I think your answer may lie here. ;7
This whole thing is a ton of work. Neither model is anywhere near even smelling like a convertable mesh. Neither is completely UV'ed. Ragingloli's is Hole-O-Riffic. Once I finish that part, I can make the hexagon. But only then.
The models aren't finished or ready for conversion.
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Ok, I'm trying to convert it and I find some bug.
*snip*
Docking points on the landing plate, from the bottom side. They're seems to be uvmapped from the inner side. I'm not a modeller or uvmapper, so I don't know whether it is a bug but it doesn't look good.
The normals are facing the wrong way, you need to flip them. But indeed, that model is not intended to be used in-game as is, especially the big plate needs more work.
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Converted :D
(http://i26.tinypic.com/2h6brcx.jpg)
It's not a bad placeholder. I'm going to import and adapt glowpoints from low-poly Arcadia.
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Unless I've gone blind, that doesn't really look any different from the retail one.
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You are blind, Battuta. It looks worse.
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Maybe i'm blind too, but isn't that FSF's Arcadia with retail/mvps textures?
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And rather bad stretching on the textures, yes.
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Ok fellas please do not uselessly criticise stuff other people have put a lot of work into. Give suggestions or recommendations for ways to improve it. HLP has few enough UV mappers or general texturers as is, so discouraging anyone going along that path is even more unhelpful than usual.
Betrayal - the use of trim on the model is quite good, which is a lot harder to get right than the larger areas of hull so well done there, but yeah on those larger areas the texture looks a bit confused. In fact it looks like one on the bottom may be a glowmap only rather than an actual texture. I'd suggest going back to the original arcadia and following the general colouration patterns seen there on which large-area textures go where. :)
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Ok fellas please do not uselessly criticise stuff other people have put a lot of work into. Give suggestions or recommendations for ways to improve it.
"fix the stretching, 'specially inside the hole"?
Is there much more to say?
That's the most major issue I see with it (that and that the rest is so dark I can't really tell).
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Well that's a bit more useful, and is therefore better! :p
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I agree that the textures aren't placed together very well on that model, though it was mentioned last page the uvmap is pretty whacked.
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At this stage in the FreeSpace Upgrade Project, it's pretty much mandatory that high-poly models have full UV maps.
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You do realize making a circular and hexagonal hole is not 'a ton of work', right?
You are forgetting everything down the line that needs to happen... Changing the model that much will probably require new UVs, then there is everything involved with the conversion process and getting it into the game.
But if it's really not 'a ton of work'... why don't you do it?
No, I'm pretty sure the UVs would be mostly preserved save for the hole and area around the hole, unless it's an import/export issue.
Anyway, I'll gladly do it as soon as my main comp is fixed. I've not got anything other than sketchup on here.
On the off chance that I get max to run, it will likely lag so bad that doing anything will be pointless.
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How's the Arcadia doing?
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I want it so badly! :)