Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: S-99 on July 26, 2010, 06:07:46 pm
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Here's the scenario. City hall in my parent's city has been using the same computers since 2002. I am independently contracted by them for maintenance and general technical support. They're very satisfied with the help and options i provide. They also really love me since they never need the same problem fixed twice because i like to teach preventative measures to keep a problem from happening again.
But, the new problem is that they're using computers from 2002 still. They don't do that hardware intensive of computer tasks which is cool, hence they haven't needed to upgrade. But, the ugly has reared it's head in this scenario.
1. It's an XP/win2k environment. I want to get everyone on windows 7 which is an OS i can successfully run everybody from standard user accounts, and then they tap into a password protected admin account via UAC whenever admin privileges is required. This'll make virus scans a once a week afair for them, and mostly so none of the staff plug in like a usb drive and transfer an infected file to god knows what computer elsewhere and gets it infected (and also it'll keep viruses at bay completely for infecting system files because of the reduced permissions). Not to mention, this is a commercial environment, and for the win2k computers, i cannot just go ahead and install a free to use firewall (yes there is comodo firewall, it's a pain in the ass to setup). Windows firewall does the job just fine, i don't want to have to maintain another utility for them. Several good reasons for them getting windows 7 (in particular they're getting the 64 bit home basic (they're computer environment is pretty simple, and they have never needed or ever will need the advanced utilities in something like XP professional edition or whatever the windows 7 equivalent of that is)). I'd soup them up with linux centered around familiarity, but they run too many windows specific programs that there would be no point.
2. The hardware is starting to show it's age. They need more memory, a 4gb minimum would be awesome. I used what they had and upped all computers to 1.5gb of memory, this has helped immensely, but they need more. The pentium 4 processor in all of these computers is an entirely different thing. Pentium 4 is still more than fast enough, but since it doesn't do 64 bit, it has to go (dual core would be nice too). The big alarming fact about all of these computers is that they have 8 year old hard drives, going on 9 years soon. No one wants to lose they're work because the hard drive just died one day like i'm expecting it too, but that they aren't despite how many times i tell them this.
I would like to get them custom built computers straight from me. But, this i'm feeling would be more expensive. However, they still do need dependable non proprietary hardware (non proprietary motherboards, etc, last longer and can be replaced and modified by me). This is going to cost an extra pretty penny, but oh well. I don't want them with cheap dell hardware again which has failed them twice so far with those classic dell clamshell p4 machines in earlier years. Dell is out of the question, they can suck my ball sack.
Good computers from a manufacturer with non proprietary hardware of at least dual core processor and 4gb of memory with win7 64 bit home basic (or whatever it's called). I need some suggestions since i'm not so knowledgeable about big computer manufacturers aside from my excising of the dell choice (otherwise i'd order 4 dell vostro desktops, but no to that).
I want to have a proposal for them (ultimately it will be what they will end up doing). Yes this does mean a lot of money for me, but hey, i already have an excellent reputation with them.
In the mean time i am checking prices for doing home built systems, i expect it'll either be the same price as a computer from a manufacturer or cheaper, or the reverse.
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Not quite sure why you'd need the 64-bit versions and 4 GB RAM. For basic office work (and I sort of assume that's what these machines will be used for), 2 Gigs should suffice. Also, you need to make sure that all the remote admin stuff actually works with the Home Premium versions (I know it does on Professional, but I'm not sure about HP).
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UAC for temporarily grabbing admin privileges in vista and windows 7 i have tested and works beautifully. XP on the other hand sucks at it. XP is a ****ty multi-user os for basic use (for non basic use you buy xp professional), it's that the standard user account in XP wouldn't let you do so much as burn a cd (the defaults in vista home and 7 home for standard user account are sufficient even for me to use 24/7), really XP sucks because it's still designed to be run by an admin account 24/7. As far as anything else goes, they don't run windows shares, they don't use a workgroup, they don't have a domain, etc.
I think i'll take your recommendation and switch from 4gb of ram to 2. You're assumption is correct, and even myself who plays games at max quality have never needed yet to upgrade to 4gb myself.
64 bit windows and a 64 bit capable processor is a must. Computing has essentially switched over to 64bit and 32bit is dying. Buying 32bit would not be good for future computer use when more and more programs will be 64bit only, and also not to mention future memory upgrades if they ever need to get more of it. The good thing about windows vista and 7 64bit is that they work just fine with 32bit apps.
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HP is hit and miss. Some years their computers are top quality, other years they suck.
The big alarming fact about all of these computers is that they have 8 year old hard drives, going on 9 years soon. No one wants to lose they're work because the hard drive just died one day like i'm expecting it too, but that they aren't despite how many times i tell them this.
Don't you have a server? If so then why not allow each user to have their own quota of server disk space?
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They dont have a server because the city hall i speak of is 4 people. They do have automated backups via high capacity external hard drives plugged into their computers.
I'm not going to put in a server because it wouldn't improve or degrade they're setup.
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First thing you need to know is the limit before it has to be bid out. That's usually determined by state laws. No sense in doing all the research and work if they are going to have to contract it out to a GSA(or whatever that abbreviation is) certified supplier. Which means the computers you end up with are state certified junk that are probably 2 years out of date already.
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They don't have a computer supplier at all. That's the good thing. This is a very small city of 2000 people (hardly qualifies calling it a city even though they call it that). One person has an old compaq purchased by city hall from wal mart, the other 3 are old home built rigs that my dad donated to city hall back in the day so they weren't using pentium 2's anymore back when he was city admin.
There is no supplier, and i am in no way doing any supplying myself. The only thing that matters is where it's cheapest to buy what they need, of course after it gets discussed by the city board.
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Not quite sure why you'd need the 64-bit versions and 4 GB RAM. For basic office work (and I sort of assume that's what these machines will be used for), 2 Gigs should suffice. Also, you need to make sure that all the remote admin stuff actually works with the Home Premium versions (I know it does on Professional, but I'm not sure about HP).
The Microsoft remote admin stuff only works on Pro, Enterprise, and Ultimate. Though VNC should be fine, though I honestly don't know how well it handles the UAC prompts.
As for the server, it would improve the setup, because if all of the important information is on the fileserver, then if one of the computers fails then it can be swapped out, no data transfer required, you can then find and/or fix the error at your leisure. It would also allow for the external hard drives to be moved off of the users desks and into a more secure location, because I am sure that there is information on those hard drives and the computers in general that could be a bit of a problem if they were stolen.
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They don't have a computer supplier at all. That's the good thing. This is a very small city of 2000 people (hardly qualifies calling it a city even though they call it that). One person has an old compaq purchased by city hall from wal mart, the other 3 are old home built rigs that my dad donated to city hall back in the day so they weren't using pentium 2's anymore back when he was city admin.
There is no supplier, and i am in no way doing any supplying myself. The only thing that matters is where it's cheapest to buy what they need, of course after it gets discussed by the city board.
It doesn't matter. There are laws that govern what can and can't be bought by even the smallest town. If it's over a certain amount then it has to be bid by law. So if they are going to buy the equipment even if you supply the specs those specs mean nothing as each competing bidder also supplies what he things is best for them and at a price. Then the government sales agreement stuff comes in (guess it is GSA) which are state recommended vendors that sell with government discounts that don't require bidding as their prices are approved by the state. It takes about 2 years for a system price to get approved so you see where the 2 year old specs come in. Believe me if it's over that bid amount you are in for some fun.
Of course like everything there are ways around it like replacing one every year instead of all 4 at once. That usually works for small cities and towns budgets as well as they don't get hit with one big charge in a year.
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what id do is look for a mobo/cpu/ram combo deal in kind of a microatx package with some integrated video chipset, and gigabit lan (probibly want a gigabit switch/router with it). find a small case to match (small cases are essential with what it costs to ship to this state). at this point you could supply a server to act as a nas and domain controller, or a purpose built nas appliance. have the computers replicate their local data folders to the server automatically, or just host user folders on the server (gigabit makes this better). if you dont do a domain controller, a workgroup comes in handy, and only really requires a few minutes to set up.
you could also go with the thin client route so that everything is centralized on one server. you would have everything on raid storage and have some other kind of backup facilities built in.
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Well, i guess i could keep it easy and start from dell. Before they got the free donated computers, they bought dell. It's starting to look like they disregard the law in terms of competing bidders for computers. But, thinking if i talk to them and stick with dell stuff should be fine. Then again, i'm bringing this proposal directly to the city administrator, so i'll talk to him tomorrow and learn more about why there computer situation has turned into donated computers.
I did some talking and extra research on dell so as not to rule them out completely (i do like dell better than hp to say the least since i share kosh's opinion). Dell is probably the realistic outlook for new computers for them.
I'll worry about a better backup solution once the new computers are in. The backup solution they have now is simplistic and works. I'm not going to call it crude because it's not, but definitely could be improved upon. The computer situation over there is very simple. 4 computers connected to the internet with whatever way the user setup the computer themselves. All the users get and need they're own administrative access to each, i'm just going to switch that up a bit by having them take advantage of uac from a standard user account.
I am tech support, making my role stronger in the administrative role is also what i am doing which will keep things more consistent, working better, and get some kind of computer policy in place. Since i am an on call fix this for me basis, i need to increase what they'll let me do over time. In other words i don't see them wanting to get a server for backups despite the fact that it would be easy to setup.
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do they just use just one external drive or do they have a duplicate so they have an on-site backup for rapid restoration and an off-site backup in case of fire
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They dont have a server because the city hall i speak of is 4 people. They do have automated backups via high capacity external hard drives plugged into their computers.
I'm not going to put in a server because it wouldn't improve or degrade they're setup.
Oh, well I figured you had more. You know if you only need 4 new workstations you can just build them yourself. You can get everything from a local computer shop (make sure you get good brands), assemble them, ghost them, and you're done.
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Instead of proposal, i'll utilize the wording "recommended you get new computers fitting these parameters fast!...and it can happen a couple of ways".
I can build these computers myself and get them in there. Apparently that's what my dad did for the computers they've been using for 8 years. Although, in alaska, buying locally isn't really the cheapest, in which case ordering off the internet may very well be cheaper, and maybe even cheaper still to get computers from the likes of dell or acer.
They have on-site backups, no off site ones yet. The backup system they have is just a high capacity hard drive plugged into every computer automated to backup. That does the job very well actually. Like i said, it works as is just great right now, off-site would be even better for reliable data backup redundancy though.
This isn't a network and computer environment i setup. These are the remnants from the last IT guy which was my dad but primarily the city admin of the time years ago. He did a pretty good job, not many of the aspects of the environment need to be changed, just: faster computers, buttoned up security, and possible off-site backup storage (they do maintain backup redundancies, and keep them in a separate room).
I'm not going to make it more complicated than it already is since the 4 staff (the only people there ever), are very much into the groove of things even with maintaining backup redundancies. Getting them into storing them off-site wouldn't be very difficult at all.
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it costs a fortune to ship here, especially here in the southeast where there are hardly any roads to anywhere, and everything has to come in by air or sea. i figure the interior being a little less expensive because they have roads to anchorage which iirc has a port for container ships (where as here its all done by barge). cases especially will cost a fortune, thats why i recommend a microatx form factor and suitable cases. full size case cost around $90 bucks to ship, while a smaller case for microatx costs only about $30-$40 bucks to ship. im not sure what youre retail options are for cases, but retail might save you lots on shipping.
id still advise doing a workgroup, because network shares make it easier/safer to move data about the network. instead of using flash drives and cds/dvds. its easy to do assuming all your computers already share a router. all you really have to do is set up shares and give all the computers the same workgroup name. with proper shares it also allows you to back up all the computers from a single station, provided a fast enough network is available.
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Yeah i know what you mean nuke. I'm curious if i'd be able to get away with amazon super saver shipping though, that's shipping's only saving grace here.
Yeah i'll go ahead and set a work group, that'll be easy enough.
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Worse comes to worse S-99, I'll ship anywhere on the face of the planet if it can be addressed.
Working on my A+ certs now, and I've built systems.
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it costs a fortune to ship here,
I thought you moved to Arizona?
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it costs a fortune to ship here,
I thought you moved to Arizona?
i moved back, it was an epic failure on my part.
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Worse comes to worse S-99, I'll ship anywhere on the face of the planet if it can be addressed.
Working on my A+ certs now, and I've built systems.
Good to know. Small chance that i'll need to, thx. A+ is easy as ****. I took the class, not bothering getting the certification at all unless i need to get it. Mainly because my information technology specialist associates speaks volumes more than an A+ ever would.
i moved back, it was an epic failure on my part.
Fell in love with a special somebody? She turned out unexpectedly to be an illegal and deported because you cringed at the idea of getting married to keep her here?
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Worse comes to worse S-99, I'll ship anywhere on the face of the planet if it can be addressed.
Working on my A+ certs now, and I've built systems.
Good to know. Small chance that i'll need to, thx. A+ is easy as ****. I took the class, not bothering getting the certification at all unless i need to get it. Mainly because my information technology specialist associates speaks volumes more than an A+ ever would.
i always figured a+ for a scam. my brother got his, and he cant even do simple tasks like back up his system or install windows. i fugyred my degree was enough and i was already a system builder at the time. theres no money in fixing/building computers anymore. after that i made around $30-$40 ish building and repairing bicycles. no doubt theres an overpriced certification for that as well.
i moved back, it was an epic failure on my part.
Fell in love with a special somebody? She turned out unexpectedly to be an illegal and deported because you cringed at the idea of getting married to keep her here?
nothing so glamorous. lets just say that thanks to walmart, my bike job ceased to be profitable around the time my rent was about to go up. i thought id go down south and do something technical for a change, but nothing was there. never mind that i spent the first month screwing my brother's ex wife.
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Well i delivered my recommendations today.
Very good reasons why they need to upgrade, and what they should get.
They were very happy with my recommendations and reasons.
I recommended intel core i5 or amd athlon 2 x2, 4gb of memory (they'll eventually upgrade to 4 might as well get it now), big hard drive like 320 or 500gb, windows 7 home premium 64 bit, and to go with hp pavillion or dell optiplex.
I did get to mess around with a current hp pavillion p6580t today at city hall one of the staff got for free by default since the clinic ordered one too many. It already fit my recommendations for them, and it works great, so i tossed hp pavillion on the list. If they get more for free, cool, but they need to worry how to get them now. All is well in the universe.
More on the list was me coming in and making windows 7 look like xp for familiarity, and having everyone