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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 02:40:57 am

Title: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 02:40:57 am
Great read! (http://thephoenix.com/boston/news/105980-afghanistan-the-war-thats-killing-us/) Check it out
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 07, 2010, 03:06:25 am
I'm pretty sure he reads Petraeus wrong, personally.

I also think he contradicts himself on the concepts of when what he's decrying actually happened and how you're supposed to fight terrorism. He's basically describing the cruise missile diplomacy of the Clinton years (yet later goes on to insult Clinton), but he claims the problems in foriegn policy exist going back to post WW2.

But basically, his "completely bring the troops home blahblah" is completely untenable. (He also obliquely insults the decision to undertake Gulf 1, which is very questionable.) He's also drawing the Vietnam parallel while trying to look otherwise; yes, the Army's not in good shape now because of what's it is going through, but the AVF and various other measures mean it's never going to sink to the depths it did in Vietnam. Vietnam cost the United States Army its soul sometime about 1968, and it did not regain it until the mid-late 1980s. The damage is ugly, but it's not anywhere that deep.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Dilmah G on August 07, 2010, 06:54:07 am
I've only read a bit of it at the moment, but I don't think his "Let's play big brother with Afghanistan" strategy is tenable in the slightest. If there is going to be surveillance ops in Afghanistan, my opinion is that it should be under Afghani command with US guidance if necessary. And I really stress that 'guidance' word there.

Seriously, if we're going to implement a big brother system in Afghanistan, running that SOB is going to be a full time job. The US Army is the US ARMY, not the Afghani Army.

I've got too much of a headache now to read the rest of it. :(
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Nuke on August 07, 2010, 07:04:17 am
he kinda made since up till he stated that he voted for obama.

I've only read a bit of it at the moment, but I don't think his "Let's play big brother with Afghanistan" strategy is tenable in the slightest. If there is going to be surveillance ops in Afghanistan, my opinion is that it should be under Afghani command with US guidance if necessary. And I really stress that 'guidance' word there.

i dont think they have enough yaks for that.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Flipside on August 07, 2010, 08:49:59 am
To be honest, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find a lot of Russian politicians smirking behind their glass of Vodka every time someone mentions the US problems in Afghanistan, it's no secret the US openly supported the Taliban in their fight against Soviet occupation with training and supplies, because Misogynistic thugs were, apparently, better than Communists. Now the 'Red Threat' has gone, people are starting to notice what the Taliban actually are, a violent, radical, poorly educated but, thanks to years of Guerilla warfare and aid, very effective Urban combat group.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: StarSlayer on August 07, 2010, 09:04:23 am
To be honest, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find a lot of Russian politicians smirking behind their glass of Vodka every time someone mentions the US problems in Afghanistan, it's no secret the US openly supported the Taliban in their fight against Soviet occupation with training and supplies, because Misogynistic thugs were, apparently, better than Communists. Now the 'Red Threat' has gone, people are starting to notice what the Taliban actually are, a violent, radical, poorly educated but, thanks to years of Guerilla warfare and aid, very effective Urban combat group.

Actually the US was pretty hands off on the actual support part.  We made the mistake pretty much allowing the Pakistani Intelligence run the show and merely bank rolling them.  Therefore the money went to those groups that ISI wanted to support rather than the more moderate leaders like Massoud.  Not to mention it turned the ISI from a two bit division of the Army into the one of the most powerful institutions in Pakistan.  If your ever interested in reading up try Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, its pretty fascinating what SNAFU the whole thing was.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Flipside on August 07, 2010, 09:12:23 am
True, also, the UK wasn't exactly 'innocent' in the whole affair either, but I suppose the point is that as long as America continues to assume that the Taliban are a force that developed in spite of their Foreign Policy, rather than because of it, they cannot win this war by killing people.

The sad thing is that the Coalition has figured out how to win the war now, education, communication and respect has made massive in-roads into the local communities, but the problem is that the training and equipment provided to the Taliban make them a dangerous threat, and one that doesn't need a plan to pack its bags and leave, the Farmers might be uneducated, but they aren't stupid, they'll choose survival over being dead and free.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Fearless Leader on August 07, 2010, 12:28:31 pm
Well, considering that the "Global War On Terror" is basically a thinly masked rampage of revenge that any citizen of a NATO country can sign up to take part in, I don't think there will be an ultimate win. Just less fighting.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 12:42:35 pm
Well, considering that the "Global War On Terror" is basically a thinly masked rampage of revenge that any citizen of a NATO country can sign up to take part in, I don't think there will be an ultimate win. Just less fighting.

Did you read the article? That's the point he's making.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Turambar on August 07, 2010, 01:50:54 pm
It's just like farmville.  The only way to win is to stop playing.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: StarSlayer on August 07, 2010, 04:00:17 pm
To be honest I always thought on Sept 12th we should have embarked on a national campaign towards achieving energy independence or at the very least eliminating our consumption of middle eastern oil as soon as possible.  First it would eventually lead to cutting the majority of the funding for international terrorism and secondly it would make all our future dealings with the region objective, rather then coloured by our national energy needs.  But alas our leaders are a bunch of gutless short sighted wonders unwilling to roll a hard six, so nearly a decade later we still are in the same predicament we were in when we started.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 07, 2010, 07:45:53 pm
Did you read the article? That's the point he's making.

No it's not. He's not even making a coherent point, probably because he's responding to questions, but if any point is being made here it's that we should not engage in "optional wars".
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Nuclear1 on August 08, 2010, 02:39:40 am
We're completely ****ed either way.  We stay in Afghanistan, the war gets worse, more soldiers and civilians die, Taliban (among other groups) keeps on fighting, and it never ends.  We leave Afghanistan, power vacuum occurs, thousands more civilians die, Afghanistan remains a breeding ground of terrorism.

I'm sick and tired of burying my friends coming home from that ****hole. 
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: redsniper on August 08, 2010, 01:11:47 pm
leaders ... unwilling to roll a hard six
This. This is the source of so many of our problems. Adama / Tigh 2012 FTW!
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 08, 2010, 01:24:13 pm
leaders ... unwilling to roll a hard six
This. This is the source of so many of our problems. Adama / Tigh 2012 FTW!
Wouldn't Adama and Tigh want to nuke the site from orbit just to be sure?
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: redsniper on August 08, 2010, 01:25:24 pm
I guess. So?
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Kosh on August 08, 2010, 01:26:52 pm
Quote
We're completely ****ed either way.  We stay in Afghanistan, the war gets worse, more soldiers and civilians die, Taliban (among other groups) keeps on fighting, and it never ends.  We leave Afghanistan, power vacuum occurs, thousands more civilians die, Afghanistan remains a breeding ground of terrorism.

I'm sick and tired of burying my friends coming home from that ****hole.  


With that trillion dollar mineral find we'll probably never leave.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 08, 2010, 01:49:58 pm
I guess. So?
I don't have a problem with turning Afghanistan into an irradiated parking lot made of glass, but other people here might.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Kosh on August 08, 2010, 01:54:05 pm
Won't happen, not with natural resources at stake.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: redsniper on August 08, 2010, 01:58:54 pm
Sometimes... you've got to roll a hard six.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Flipside on August 08, 2010, 02:11:25 pm
Thing is, nukes don't carry the weight they used to, back at the end of WW2, Japan knew that no force on Earth could stand up to the H-Bomb, that no allies could help them, nowadays, Afghanistan is surrounded by semi to fully sympathic countries who also have nukes, glassing Afghanistan would have nothing even close to the stopping power that nuking Japan did.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 08, 2010, 02:16:55 pm
Sometimes... you've got to roll a hard six.

Yeah. However, its not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: StarSlayer on August 08, 2010, 02:44:22 pm
Thing is, nukes don't carry the weight they used to, back at the end of WW2, Japan knew that no force on Earth could stand up to the H-Bomb, that no allies could help them, nowadays, Afghanistan is surrounded by semi to fully sympathic countries who also have nukes, glassing Afghanistan would have nothing even close to the stopping power that nuking Japan did.

 :blah:  The idea that Pakistan or Iran might be irritated that you glassed Afghanistan shouldn't be the most prominent reason for not doing it.  Nuking Afghanistan to stop Al Queda/Taliban is like nuking LA to eliminate Crips.  I mean sure thats where they live, but the majority of people your killing aren't even involved.  Most of these people have basically been subsistence farming for generations, born and lived their entire lives in a single village.  They probably haven't even heard of the United States until our Chinooks and Apaches started rattling through their valleys.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Flipside on August 08, 2010, 02:46:32 pm
I know, I was just touching on the Military side of matters, not the humanitarian one, from a human point of view, it's terminal overkill anyway, but from a political point of view it is something that is likely to backfire horrendously.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 08, 2010, 02:48:10 pm
Can't we just nuke the tops off some of the Hindu Kush mountains to remove some of the Taliban hiding places?

Quote from: Serenity, The Operative
If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: StarSlayer on August 08, 2010, 02:50:52 pm
Can't we just nuke the tops off some of the Hindu Kush mountains to remove some of the Taliban hiding places?

Quote from: Serenity, The Operative
If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to.

All the infrastructure is in Pakistan anyway, your tax dollars at work back in the eighties. 
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Turambar on August 08, 2010, 02:53:25 pm
Can't we just nuke the tops off some of the Hindu Kush mountains to remove some of the Taliban hiding places?

Quote from: Serenity, The Operative
If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to.

There's only one way to fight religion:  Education.  The sooner Afghanistan stops being a ****-hole, the sooner the problem will go away.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: Kosh on August 08, 2010, 02:55:52 pm
Can't we just nuke the tops off some of the Hindu Kush mountains to remove some of the Taliban hiding places?

Quote from: Serenity, The Operative
If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to.

Then as soon as we do that, a few pakistani nuclear warheads might "accidently" disappear, only to rediscovered, but not before turning some american cities into mushroom clouds.
Title: Re: Army colonel outlines how to 'win' the alleged war on terror
Post by: redsniper on August 08, 2010, 04:04:56 pm
For the record, I don't support nuking Afghanistan or pretty much anyone for that matter. I just wanted to make some BSG references.