Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Public Development => Topic started by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 09, 2010, 04:24:22 pm
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With 3.6.12 released it's time to get Zathras 2.0 ready for release as well. The current Zathras isn't compatible with 3.6.12 and there were several more bugs found from new checks in the code. There have already been several Alpha builds. It's time to wrap up. So if you want to test and use 3.6.12 you can grab the Beta build here: Zathras 2 Beta 1 (http://fubar.org/TBP/Zathras2_beta1.rar). Please report any problems noticed. There are some know issues still and those are in Mantis so check there first. Hopefully this will be the last release before final.
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That's cool !
I somehow have lost overrview what there is to be installed when installing TBP
- 3.4b core
- zathras 2.0
- 3.6.12 executables
- openal
something more ?
I wanted to fred some EACW missions the last 2 weeks ( was at a foreign computer ), but somehow I didnt manage to make it work... lol
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no that pretty much covers it. A campaign that takes advantage of Zathras features to test it would be an idea. Fortune Hunter campaigns for example. Also, remember to set the options in the mod menu and the launcher in general.
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In Zathras 2.0, it contains a sunhawk, a very special one indeed. The engine rotates like the one in the show.
How cool is that. ;)
Just one question, if you please.
Is this a variant of the Firehawk, or vise versa?
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Actually that was in Zathras 1.0 as well and most of it was in TBP 3.4b. Apparently the Sunhawk and Firehawk were done by the same person but only one of them ever made it into the game. The Sunhawk had some major issues with the model but I was able to fix those and get a working pof out of it.
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One issue I know of:
Before 3.6.12, the "Secondary Range Multiplier" AI.tbl attribute defaulted to a value based on the index of the AI class. Basically, AI classes higher in the table had lower values and classes further down the table had higher values. The bad news was that Volition designed this hard-coded scaling with only their set of AI classes in mind: as soon as you get more than 12 or so AI classes in the file, the effective "Secondary Range Multiplier" becomes a somewhat ridiculous number, and results in the AI firing missiles from out of range (and often wasting them as a result).
In 3.6.12, this automatic scaling is handled slightly differently: rather than scale between 0 and 9 or so, then get weird as you add more AI classes, the automatic scaling is stretched based on the total number of AI classes.
Really, the best thing to do is to manually set "Secondary Range Multiplier" (and the other AI attributes) to the values you want, rather than to rely on the arcane autoscaling, old or new.
This will affect TBP, since TBP uses a large AI.tbl. Unfortunately, there are probably a bunch of missions that rely on values from the old, fundamentally-broken system. If you want true backwards compatibility, you'll need to go into AI.tbl and set "Secondary Range Multiplier" to values that match the old autoscaling scheme... I can help with the math, if you need it.
If you're willing to let things change a bit, you have a lot of options. My recommendation is probably to manually set the range multiplier to the old autoscaled values, but to cap them at something sane (1.0, 1.25, ex).
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Actually that was in Zathras 1.0
I missed that one..
Contributes it to old age, or the need for glasses. :nervous:
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One issue I know of:
Before 3.6.12, the "Secondary Range Multiplier" AI.tbl attribute defaulted to a value based on the index of the AI class. Basically, AI classes higher in the table had lower values and classes further down the table had higher values. The bad news was that Volition designed this hard-coded scaling with only their set of AI classes in mind: as soon as you get more than 12 or so AI classes in the file, the effective "Secondary Range Multiplier" becomes a somewhat ridiculous number, and results in the AI firing missiles from out of range (and often wasting them as a result).
In 3.6.12, this automatic scaling is handled slightly differently: rather than scale between 0 and 9 or so, then get weird as you add more AI classes, the automatic scaling is stretched based on the total number of AI classes.
Really, the best thing to do is to manually set "Secondary Range Multiplier" (and the other AI attributes) to the values you want, rather than to rely on the arcane autoscaling, old or new.
This will affect TBP, since TBP uses a large AI.tbl. Unfortunately, there are probably a bunch of missions that rely on values from the old, fundamentally-broken system. If you want true backwards compatibility, you'll need to go into AI.tbl and set "Secondary Range Multiplier" to values that match the old autoscaling scheme... I can help with the math, if you need it.
If you're willing to let things change a bit, you have a lot of options. My recommendation is probably to manually set the range multiplier to the old autoscaled values, but to cap them at something sane (1.0, 1.25, ex).
Yea my plan on this one was to try to match the broken behavior then add new ai_profiles that any future development should use. I'll probably picking your brain on that on IRC as soon as I finish the swarm to burst fire conversions on the primaries. Were a lot more using swarm then I originally thought. No wonder that limit was getting slammed.
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Table for testing the replacement of swarm primaries with burst versions: burst-wep.tbm (http://fubar5.fubar.org/tbp/burst-wep.tbm). Just place in Zathras\data\tables. You will either need to change the ships to the #burst versions for testing or edit the table and remove the #burst from the end of the entries.
Even though I set them up as close to the originals as I could this could result in some balance issues for 2 reasons. The biggest is the overuse of swarm on primaries was resulting in the limit being hit and weapons not firing when they should have before. Second is burst doesn't work exactly the same as swarm. I balanced all on medium so there should be no difference when playing on that level. Easy and Hard should be little difference with very easy and insane being a little more off the originals. Still it should not be enough to be a mission killer and the overall benefits outweigh any problems it may cause.
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So I noticed that 3.6.12 no longer recognizes the -tbp command line option.
This takes away the different warp in/out effects (blue and orange).
Is there another way to enable it now, somewhere in a table? EDIT: Ok, I see how it works now via table, carry on ;)
Also, the TBP3.4b shockwave has black boxes again (what has changed between FSO 3.6.10 to 3.6.12 that this happens again?). Is there an updated version in Zathras 2.0? (I'm still downloading) EDIT2: ok, this is also fixed in Zathras, although I'm not sure how.
My nobly gripe at the moment is that there are still "ea-debris01" and "narndebris01", which are the same animated effect, wasting 52 BMPman slots and a lot of memory. To fix that you'd have first decide which name to keep and then go through all the POFs that use the other on and change the texture name accordingly.
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On the Warp part. Yes that is controlled by tables now. One issue though. Only part of the change was back ported to 3.6.12. Luckily it was as easy as just leaving the table entry for jump ins out. This does mean that anyone using 3.6.13 for testing will need to uncomment those lines in Zathras-shp.tbm to get the correct warp effects.
Unfortunately the debris issues isn't that easy. The effect is a single map that is different but the glows (52 frames) are duplicates. Currently there is no way to have narndebris01.dds use ea-debris01-glow.eff.
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Unfortunately the debris issues isn't that easy. The effect is a single map that is different but the glows (52 frames) are duplicates. Currently there is no way to have narndebris01.dds use ea-debris01-glow.eff.
Eh, you mean the low-res ea-debris01.dds and narndebris01.dds is the 3.4b core? Those don't match the animated glow effect anyway, but that's acceptable since they get overdrawn with the glow effect. So you could replace the texture name in the POFs with PCS2 without harm.
Also, not directly related to Zathras... but what exactly is the deal with the this strange beam fading? (See attachment)
I remember Fury commenting on that earlier (but I can't find the relevant thread anymore), it might also be related to this: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71024.0
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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That isn't beam fading but some kind of issue where ships shoot beams from beyond their range. Nials are great at doing it. Haven't figured out a reason yet.
If that is the case on debris then maybe we can find someone to make an actual usable ea-debris01.dds that matches the glows and set all ships to use that. Of course that will be something for the next Zathras. I'd rather not edit every model again for 2.0 and have the chance of introducing problems at this late stage.
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If that is the case on debris then maybe we can find someone to make an actual usable ea-debris01.dds that matches the glows and set all ships to use that. Of course that will be something for the next Zathras. I'd rather not edit every model again for 2.0 and have the chance of introducing problems at this late stage.
Oh, a simple desaturated version of one of the glow frames is completely sufficient (see attachement) for a diffuse map, when the glow effect is rendered over it you see barely anything of the diffuse map under it anyway.
The bigger job is going through all the POFs to check which ones use the narndebris01 and change them accordingly, and since I saw that you have updated most POFs from their 3.4b originals in Zathras anyway, I thought now would be a good time to fix that as well.
EDIT: Or better yet, change all debris maps on anything smaller than capships to "debris_static.dds", since the animated glow map looks rather strange on smaller ships and it's quite a resource hog.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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What's it look like if you have glow maps disabled in the launcher?
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For the "ea-debris01" you'd get the grey diffuse map I've attached above. For the "debris-static" map, check out the skylark for example. The F3 lab is best suited to test this stuff, since you can enable/disable glowmaps on the fly.
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Yea hard to do outside though.
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Yea hard to do outside though.
Hmm, what do you mean?
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I was outside on my old laptop with no FS2, TBP, code or anything. Just MP3 player, IRC, and Firefox.
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Ah, well then get back to your underground lair and work *whiplash* ;)
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Alpha 3 is up. Changes since Alpha 2 include swarm primaries converted to burst fire, AI table updated to reproduce buggy 3.6.9 secondary firing range behavior to maintain mission balance, and EA Warlock uvmap issue fixed. Dang thing was off by 1 dang pixel. Also redid the LODs, added debris, fixed some turret problems (invalid normals, not firing down barrels, and shooting through hull), and opened up the other 3 docking bays since the code now supports more then 10 paths.
If your wondering about the Warlock changes breaking anything as far as I can tell only 5 missions use it. 2 are apparently cutscenes and 0rpheus is checking those just in case. Other 3 are MAG's and I'm waiting on a response. If anyone else has use it let me know if there are issues. I checked every mission that I know of that was released so far.
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currently writing an ant simulator :lol:
sounds great nonetheless FUB. Fixed Turret issue for what ships?
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The turrets, debris, bay paths, and redone LODs were all on the Warlock.
Current project LODs for B5.
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No problems so far but I haven't played any real missions yet, just mashed together a few tests after getting TBP reinstalled. I noticed the EA Phalanx seems to fire in bursts of greater than four now and it looks nice.
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The EA Phalanx should not be firing in bursts of more then 4. ISA Phalanx is the one with 8. There should be no difference in the number of shots being fired with the exception of heavy battles where the limit was being hit causing then not to fire when they should have fired.
OK bug confirmed. I'll post an updated tbm in a few.
And here it is: Zathras-wep.tbm (http://fubar5.fubar.org/tbp/Zathras-wep.tbm)
When I went to +override on the $swarm and $flags instead of an entire entry I forgot to remove $swarm so it was firing 4 swarms of 4 bursts.
I'll update the vp but that will take about an hour to create and upload.
Updated and uploading. Should be available in about 30 minutes.
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To talked to FUBAR earlier about the implimentation of the fiction viewer with Zathras 2.0 (part of the 3.6.12 compability)....
I've finished a WIP version of the interface (We can discuss the background ;)) and made a mission file that uses the fiction viewer...
Do you mind testing it? - I'm not at home right now...
EDIT: the files from the archive go to Zathras/data
EDIT2: for those who already have it: "2_fvw-m" and "fvw-m" have to be renamed to "2_fictionviewer-m"/"fictionviewer-m" - I'll have that fixed with next upload
EDIT3: NEW UPLOAD! - that should do it, not as flawless as the rest of the interface art but better than nothing
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Never actually used or seen the Fiction Viewer features before now but I like what you've done. I was hoping for an actual mission after the briefing though. :p Just to clarify, all you have to do to use this is put a text file in the data/fiction folder, then tell FRED2 to use this text file?
On an unrelated note, the Maintenance Bot is equipped with a Wielding Laser by default but can't use it because, I'm guessing, the ship has no weapons subsystem. Was this intentional? No, I don't know why I felt like flying a Maintenance Bot.
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Strange that used to work. Is this player only or AI controlled ones too? If you can reproduce it file it in TBP Mantis and I'll get it fixed.
Still haven't had a chance to test the fiction viewer. I made it as far as downloading it then got sidetracked.
Just tested the fiction viewer. Couple of issues. First the button masks are wrong. Put cursor on scroll up and scroll down arrows are highlighted. Cursor on scroll down and up arrows highlighted. Same for clicking. Also the background image worries me a bit. If you get a long text you are going to end up with gray on gray when you get half way down the page to the jumpgate arms. Didn't test it but it's something to check. Finally is it supposed to be the same size pic for 640x480 as 1024x768 interface?
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My bad, again. Please use these mask files.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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the Maintenance Bot is equipped with a Wielding Laser by default but can't use it because, I'm guessing, the ship has no weapons subsystem.
The MainBot used to break some missions 'cause it had no gun-points and could still be ordered to "attack"... somehow the engine didn't like that back in the days of 3.6.9
That's why I stepped in and added two gunspoints (GUNPOINTS! not turrets!) and an alibi-weapon and it fixed that - never thought I had to go so far as to add a weapons subsystem, hardly anyone used the Bot up until now
Just to clarify, all you have to do to use this is put a text file in the data/fiction folder, then tell FRED2 to use this text file?
Exactly - but it has to be a .txt as far as I know
Just tested the fiction viewer. Couple of issues. First the button masks are wrong. Put cursor on scroll up and scroll down arrows are highlighted. Cursor on scroll down and up arrows highlighted. Same for clicking.
The E's mask files fix that ... it's an issue with the template I got from Wiki; but I didn't until he checked the masks again... I'll wrap it up into working DL until monday
Also the background image worries me a bit. If you get a long text you are going to end up with gray on gray when you get half way down the page to the jumpgate arms.
As I said the background can still be discussed; I just wanted something to be there - I still have the WIP-file with which I can easily swap the background
I'll throw in a longer text for test tomorrow to see if the background interferes with the text
EDIT: just threw together a new variant from the same source material as the first one: before (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/FS%20Open/BG-Jumpgate.jpg) - after (http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/FS%20Open/BG-Jumpoint.jpg)
EDIT2: tested with longer text - works out fine even with the old background
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Well if the original works then we can go with that. I'll retest in a bit.
As for the welding beam issue I think I've narrowed it down to the ship not having any weapon energy. If you notice the indicator is off and even though the beam uses 0 energy it blinks as if you are out of charge. So that leaves 3 options. Leave as is. Add weapon energy and leave damage at one, try to turn it into a repair beam (I think negative damage might be legal now). Of course there is always option 4 of adding a repair beam.
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Uploading Alpha5 now. Changes since last version:
EA Explorer: Fixed buggy turrets, enabled rest of hanger bays, fixed bay paths to keep fighters from doing loops in the hanger.
EA Defense Platform: Now has LODs and added some live debris. Improved collision detection. Also some turret tweaks.
Babylon 5: Also now has LODs and some live debris on the solar panels. Hate when big objects just vaporize.
Added the fiction viewer stuff which BTW works fine now.
This will probably be the last Alpha. Only other change I have planned before Beta is that Maint Bot beam. Need some input on which way to go with that.
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A repair beam sounds cool but if it takes serious work to implement I'd chuck the idea and just go with a normal, low damage beam maybe.
I don't think the EA Poseidon's rotating section is working at the moment. It doesn't look like the subsystem has an axis of rotation assigned to it in the model file. I tried to edit this in PCS but the program crashed.
[edit] Hmmmmmmm, I bet if Slasher used an up-to-date version of PCS and not one that dates back several years it wouldn't have crashed! What an appropriate thread to be talking in the third person.
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You are correct it is missing the rotation. Fixing right now. And done. Will be in the next version.
I'm actually going to mantis that as well as it will quit rotating and jump back to default position at LOD1 distance.
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Alright last thing on the list is that welding beam issue. I confirmed it worked in 3.6.9 but there was a bug fix for player beams after that to keep ships with <= 0 energy from firing instead of just <. Easy solution is to just give it some energy. Amount wouldn't matter as it was always infinite fire.
We can always worry about a repair beam later and adjust energy then.
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OK that's done and switching to Beta testing. Only 2 real changes since the last Alpha. The Poseidon rotation and the energy on the maint bot. Hopefully this will be not only the first but final Beta.
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Downloaded and have been messing around in random missions. Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. :yes: