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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 07:08:25 pm

Title: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 07:08:25 pm
Put it in mission. Shoot at it. Behold.

What up wid it?
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 10:06:13 pm
TBLs say it only has 8000 HP to the Charybdis' 10000... I shall test this matter further.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: blowfish on August 09, 2010, 10:07:43 pm
Setekh has the bid damage flag.  Charybdis doesn't.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 10:13:54 pm
From my testing, primary weapon fire isn't damaging the Steak at all. (the 4 banks on the Artemis DH filled with Maxims... Vassago's Dirge is still selected as teh mod but I doubt that'll affect it).

Wtf.

[EDIT] still no primary damage with only 3.6.12 MVPs selected. Will test with no mod at all, then with FSO 3.6.10 and no mod.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 10:16:16 pm
Setekh has the bid damage flag.  Charybdis doesn't.

Good to know.

From my testing, primary weapon fire isn't damaging the Steak at all. (the 4 banks on the Artemis DH filled with Maxims... Vassago's Dirge is still selected as teh mod but I doubt that'll affect it).

Wtf.

[EDIT] still no primary damage with only 3.6.12 MVPs selected. Will test with no mod at all, then with FSO 3.6.10 and no mod.

This is what I saw and I'm not clear if it's just the big damage flag at work or something...more.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 10:20:08 pm
Still no damage on 3.6.12 vanilla. I should note that subsystems can be damaged (and the Steak continues to resist primary damage afterwards).

Also, why the frak does something that can be destroyed with your average-size bank of Trebs have the big damage flag? I know you can't change it from [v]'s way but jeez
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: blowfish on August 09, 2010, 10:21:22 pm
Primary fire shouldn't do any significant amount of damage to a bid damage ship (unless you have huge primaries :nervous:), though it will damage subsystems.  Try firing a few cyclops at it and see what happens.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 10:22:27 pm
No, primaries will damage a big-damage ship until a certain point. The Steak resists primary damage even at 100%.

[EDIT] still happens on 3.6.12 RC3. Going to download 3.6.10 final if I can find it.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Snail on August 09, 2010, 10:26:40 pm
No, primaries will damage a big-damage ship until a certain point. The Steak resists primary damage even at 100%.
In retail FS2, big damage flag stopped damage from non-huge weapons at 10%. The new engine does it logarithmically.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: blowfish on August 09, 2010, 10:27:43 pm
No, primaries will damage a big-damage ship until a certain point. The Steak resists primary damage even at 100%.

No.  That's the supercap flag.

Code: [Select]
if( is_big_damage_ship && !(wip->wi_flags & (WIF_HURTS_BIG_SHIPS)) ){

// if the player is firing it
if ( from_player ) {
// if it's a laser weapon
if(wip->subtype == WP_LASER){
total_scale *= 0.01f;
} else {
total_scale *= 0.05f;
}
}

// scale based on hull
if(hull_pct > 0.1f){
total_scale *= hull_pct;
} else {
return 0.0f;
}
}

Your primaries will do 1% of their rated damage down to 10% hull, at which point no non-huge weapon will be able to damage the ship.

EDIT: Grammar
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 10:36:30 pm
Yeah, that seems to be what's happening here. Although I would encourage custom campaigns to remove that flag, it can't be good for balance, especially alongside the Charybdis.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: StargateSpankyHam on August 10, 2010, 10:24:31 am
Yeah, either add "big damage" to the Charybdis, or remove it from the Setekh. AWACS ships don't exactly strike me as being heavily armored, so I'd be more inclined to do the second.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 10:25:22 am
Yeah, either add "big damage" to the Charybdis, or remove it from the Setekh. AWACS ships don't exactly strike me as being heavily armored, so I'd be more inclined to do the second.

I do kind of like it as it explains why the Vasudans don't use the Charybdis (which is otherwise better.)
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 04:46:30 pm
Experimentation suggests it's not just big damage...
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Droid803 on August 13, 2010, 04:49:26 pm
Well, if it counts for anything, I've suddenly felt that big ships became harder to kill (even in just retail).
Dinking maxims at an Orion at 64x time compression used to actually hurt it...now it kinda doesn't.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 04:51:04 pm
Well, if it counts for anything, I've suddenly felt that big ships became harder to kill (even in just retail).
Dinking maxims at an Orion at 64x time compression used to actually hurt it...now it kinda doesn't.

Retail or vanilla?
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 13, 2010, 04:51:56 pm
Experimentation suggests it's not just big damage...
"big damage" cuts most primary weapon damage down to 1% of the damage in its tbl. This is what seems to happen for me (3.6.12, no mod, no MVPs); I can hammer it with Maxims for a half a minute before it gets down to around 99% or 98%. A pair of Trebs, however, take it down to 84%.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Droid803 on August 13, 2010, 04:52:06 pm
Sorry, I meant Vanilla FSO.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 04:52:35 pm
Experimentation suggests it's not just big damage...
"big damage" cuts most primary weapon damage down to 1% of the damage in its tbl. This is what seems to happen for me (3.6.12, no mod, no MVPs); I can hammer it with Maxims for a half a minute before it gets down to around 99% or 98%. A pair of Trebs, however, take it down to 84%.

Ohohoho. Why thank you.
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: Droid803 on August 13, 2010, 04:53:20 pm
Code bug?
I'm pretty sure it wasn't like that in...3.6.9
Title: Re: Why is the Setekh so hard to kill
Post by: blowfish on August 14, 2010, 01:03:49 am
Trebs have the huge flag, so they can damage capships.