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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: BloodEagle on August 18, 2010, 09:49:47 pm

Title: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 18, 2010, 09:49:47 pm
I've been planning on a complete format for a few weeks now, but a problem recently emerged that has me worried about the process failing, and leaving me stranded. 

In the event that it is not a software based error (virus, corrupted files, etc.), I'd like to at least have an idea of which piece of hardware I need to replace.  So, if you know the cause and / or fix, for the love of [insert cute animal / evil monster of your choice here], let me know.

--------------
Symptom: 
     Semi-regularly (almost random) during certain tasks, my computer will instantaneously shut itself off.  At this point, the green LED indicator will steadily flash (as if it were hibernating), and my computer will refuse to start (it doesn't even attempt to power-up).

Temporary Solution: 
     Kill the power.  A short while after the LED stops blinking, turning the power on immediately starts the computer in a boot-up sequence.

Known Tasks Where Problem Occurs Semi-Regularly:

Known Tasks Where Problem Occurs Rarely:

Notes:

Theories:

*Least difficult to fix.
**Too old to replace. I'd have to scrap most of the system.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 18, 2010, 10:07:17 pm
this sounds somewhat similar to something i had a long time ago.  inspect the capacitors on your motherboard.  what happened to mine is several of them corroded and ruptured, and caused power-downs like that.  although like you said, i don't know why this would discriminate.  maybe there's something about adobe's stuff that causes a sharp spike in activity and sends more signals through the board.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Nuke on August 18, 2010, 10:19:12 pm
did you rule out viruses and spyware?

might want to check your bios sleep state settings. i usually disable sleep on my systems and use hibernate if needed, but i perfer to shut down when im not using it.

if you can run the system now, then after a reinstall it should still be running. format+install shouldnt affect the state of the hardware. if the problem is software, it will clear it up, if its hardware then the system will act as it does. just make sure you back up your files, you have all your drivers (especially network drivers), and a working os install disc. even if the symptoms come back, you will have at least eliminated software as the problem.

for hardware problems i find that psu failures are usually accompanied by funny sounds, like hissing capacitors. hd failures would be constantly corrupting data and giving you disk i/o errors, and the hard drive could be making funny sounds, like scraping or grinding noises. motherboards usually fail because something else has failed, like a psu. ive had situations where i though a mobo was fried, but it came back to life on a different power supply or with different processor or memory. then again i had a mobo where a voltage regulator on the mobo exploded and flew flaming across the room (this was probibly a psu problem but it fried the mobo before i could figure that out).  i personally think its a software problem.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 18, 2010, 11:33:00 pm
Yea that could be anything from the PSU going bad to the video card overheating and shutting down to prevent damage.  Intermittent problems are the worst ones.  Check fans and blow the dust out for starters. 
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 18, 2010, 11:47:41 pm
I already blew all the dust out.  And I'm pretty sure that it isn't the video card problem, as I just ran TF2 for an hour with no problems.  I also disable sleep modes on all of my systems.

I'll check the capacitors, in the morning.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Nuke on August 19, 2010, 12:27:00 am
this could also be something stupid, like a bad power cable or surge suppressor. so check that kinda stuff too. if your keyboard has a sleep button, check to make sure its not stuck.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Kosh on August 19, 2010, 03:32:19 am
Yea that could be anything from the PSU going bad to the video card overheating and shutting down to prevent damage.  Intermittent problems are the worst ones.  Check fans and blow the dust out for starters. 


If it was overheating or a power problem it wouldn't hibernate, it would simply shut down.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 19, 2010, 01:09:16 pm
Inspection Results:  No apparent damage to any of the internal components.  I hear a light... flapping (almost a grind, but not quite)... sound coming from the back (not the middle) vent.  It might just be a wire being blown against the case, though.  In any case, the HDD sounds fine.

If I can't figure it out by tonight, I'm just going to knuckle down and hope for the best.  And then I'll know whether or not I need to replace anything.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 19, 2010, 02:21:24 pm
Yea that could be anything from the PSU going bad to the video card overheating and shutting down to prevent damage.  Intermittent problems are the worst ones.  Check fans and blow the dust out for starters. 

He said it shuts down.  Re-read the first post. 

If it was overheating or a power problem it wouldn't hibernate, it would simply shut down.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Nuke on August 19, 2010, 08:18:01 pm
Inspection Results:  No apparent damage to any of the internal components.  I hear a light... flapping (almost a grind, but not quite)... sound coming from the back (not the middle) vent.  It might just be a wire being blown against the case, though.  In any case, the HDD sounds fine.

If I can't figure it out by tonight, I'm just going to knuckle down and hope for the best.  And then I'll know whether or not I need to replace anything.

grinding noise is always certain with old dirty fans. and that is the sound you hear when a wire gets too close to a fan, neither should be a major problem. i had a psu once make a high pitch whiny noise for months, it never flat out failed but the sound got so annoying i replaced it anyway.

an os reinstal is a good way to eliminate software problems. might want to run some memory testers too just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 20, 2010, 07:47:55 pm
Well, that was officially the most Hellish format session, ever.  Turns out that it wasn't a software error (:ick:), and it effects Windows Update.  (:mad2:)

I just finished getting everything set-up (system wise), and still have to move my data, favorites, etc. back to my HDD.  I started the process at midnight, this morning.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 21, 2010, 06:25:21 pm
New Symptoms:

The Problem® occurred whilst downloading Alien Swarm (which doesn't stay in your game list, btw).  Then, upon boot (when it started loading Windows), The Problem® reoccurred.  After waiting ~30 minutes, normal booting caused the same problem.  After one minute, booting from the 'last known working startup' thing resulted in success.

I'm prepared to label this as a growing HDD failure, unless anyone has a better-fitting theory.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Nuke on August 21, 2010, 09:33:43 pm
run a self booting memory test. if that passes think about a new psu. hard drive diagnostics would be a good idea as well.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 21, 2010, 11:45:16 pm
running checkdisk ought to be able to tell you if your harddrive is on its way out.  tick all the scanning options and let it run overnight.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 22, 2010, 01:01:48 am
Memtest86+ found no errors.  I'm going to start a HDD check, and sleep through it.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 22, 2010, 07:19:56 am
The Problem® either occurred during the last test (test of free space) or just after.  On boot, it said that Checkdisk didn't find any problems, despite the fact that it found indexing errors in one of the early tests.

Does anyone know of a good, free self-boot HDD diagnostic tool?
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Nuke on August 22, 2010, 08:04:22 am
check with whoever manufactures your hard drive. i know both segate and western digital have hard drive diagnostic programs for download, not sure about everyone else.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 22, 2010, 03:07:13 pm
indexing errors aren't that bad, and should be fixed by checkdisk.  you're looking for bad sectors if the drive is bad.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 22, 2010, 09:22:55 pm
Seatools found nothing wrong with the HDD.  Damn.

-Hard Disk
-Power Supply
-Mainboard

Next Test: Plug my PSU into a different computer.
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 22, 2010, 11:15:00 pm
Another possibility is a grounding issue.  If the motherboard (or another component) is grounding out periodically it could cause those symptoms.  One of the reasons when I build a computer I put electrical tape over the standoffs to insulate them in case the case doesn't line up perfectly or the board comes loose.  Back in the day this used to happen quite frequently with cheap cases.  It's 2 cents of security that's easy to add. 

Have you tired disconnecting everything but the PSU, MB, Vid and HD and running it that way?  Of course anything built into the MB will need to be connected as will the KB/mouse.  If you reduce the load on the PSU and it doesn't happen then you know it's either the PSU or one of the cards/devices you removed.  Hook one back up, try again, disconnect, repeat with next device. 
Title: Re: Computer Problem No. 672
Post by: BloodEagle on August 22, 2010, 11:50:07 pm
I'll be sure to start putting electrical tape over standoffs, but I don't think that the problem is a grounding issue.  Vibration and time don't seem to be a factor in the occurrences.

And the only extra devices that I leave plugged in are my CD-R and DVD-RW drives, which don't produce any real drain (and which don't cause the problem when I'm using them), and a single (small) case fan.  The problem also doesn't occur when using external drives that draw power from the computer.

I honestly can't see how this could be a PSU issue (it isn't random, or related to power draw), but I really don't want to build a new system (which I would likely have to do, were it a mainboard issue (which seems pretty likely, at this point)), right now.

In other news, I don't seem to be getting the error with flash anymore (I'm going to do a mega-binge on Hulu, later, to make sure), which doesn't make any sense.

My biggest problem, right now, is that I don't have a lot of compatible spare parts lying around, so I can't just swap the parts out willy-nilly.