Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => The FreeSpace Port Upgrade => Topic started by: Aardwolf on August 27, 2010, 05:17:47 am
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The cables across the floor are a heckuva lot thicker than they were in the real one...
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The cables across the floor are a heckuva lot thicker than they were in the real one...
Are... You... Serious...
Ok, now you are just LOOKING for something to complain about.
Does the thickness of the cables totally ruin it for you? Really? Do they even look bad? Or is it just different and you decided that it was SO different you just HAD to say SOMETHING.
:rolleyes:
Newsflash, buddy. There are a LOT of things that are different.
- Cable thickness
- Exit hallway walls are black instead of white
- There are lights at the floor of the Options desk
- The piping above to the right of the main door is further right
- The corner with the elevator is not as dark
- The puddles are in different places
- The camera angle isn't quite right
- The herc cockpit is OPEN
- The manhol covers on the floor are smaller
Should I continue?
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The cables across the floor are a heckuva lot thicker than they were in the real one...
(http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg)
We should get Brand-X in here to do a critique. :p
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OH... MY... GOD
THE PUDDLES ARE IN
DIFFERENT
PLACES.
!!!!
Seriously, Aard, chillax. Don't be eover9000x too critical.
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It obviously mattered enough to me that I posted about it...
And it pisses me off that, rather than addressing the one issue that I mentioned (the one which popped out at me even before I looked at the reference image), you (well, mjn.mixael) have gone and compiled a convenient little list of issues, effectively just to slap a "will not fix" on them. At least, it certainly seems from the way that you guys are responding, that you just don't give a crap about how accurate this re-creation is.
Creative liberty is one thing, but thick cables or randomly placed puddles don't fall under the category of "creative liberty". At best, maybe it's something you didn't bother to copy precisely. But when someone like me comes and identifies an issue, you don't just play around like their concerns are infantile.
No matter how trivial an issue seems to you, you don't get to **** in my face like this when I express my concern about it. :mad:
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I personally don't care about the cable thickness or coloring of doors, but I can't fault someone for taking an issue with it. I would however welcome certain additional changes, if certain SCP improvements were made. If it were made possible to include more than two mainhalls for a campaign, I could see early versions including an Apollo fighter in place of the Herc, and perhaps even additional fighters cycled randomly as they are introduced. Granted, the idea of having the scene actually displayed as a model rather than the static image + animations we have is cool, since we don't have translation support in animation control, it would be difficult to open the door. :rolleyes:
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I think Aardwolf brings up a good point. While it's completely up to the creator to do whatever he wants with his own assets regardless of what anyone else wants, I think it's also useful to point out things that deviate from the original. After all, an unstated rule here in HLP is that all improvements for the retail assets should be as close canonically as possible, or make reasonable and accepted additions (huge conflict around beam fade in MVPs comes to mind here).
So, go ahead and do whatever you want, and we'll (at least I'll) respect that. Still, expect lots of nitpicks (like my thing about the Infyrno) from people like me who like accuracy.
(Come to think of it, I've probably brought up more than half of the nitpicks against you, mjn. Did I burn through your patience?)
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I think Aardwolf brings up a good point. While it's completely up to the creator to do whatever he wants with his own assets regardless of what anyone else wants, I think it's also useful to point out things that deviate from the original. After all, an unstated rule here in HLP is that all improvements for the retail assets should be as close canonically as possible, or make reasonable and accepted additions (huge conflict around beam fade in MVPs comes to mind here).
So, go ahead and do whatever you want, and we'll (at least I'll) respect that. Still, expect lots of nitpicks (like my thing about the Infyrno) from people like me who like accuracy.
(Come to think of it, I've probably brought up more than half of the nitpicks against you, mjn. Did I burn through your patience?)
All I want you guys to know is that I'm just not going to fret about every single detail being exactly like the original. That's ridiculously difficult and simply not worth it to me. I'm sorry that my recreation isn't going to be as perfect as you would like. But the hard fact remains that you can still use the original if you prefer.
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I like to think of it this way: as we've enhanced the Galatea Mainhall, that extra power has to come from somewhere - thicker cables are the answer. :p
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Yeah ok, apology accepted.
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Yeah ok, apology accepted.
lame
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I like to think of it this way: as we've enhanced the Galatea Mainhall, that extra power has to come from somewhere - thicker cables are the answer. :p
Plus they look better.
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**** you, Galemp. I've got that post backed up on my computer now, in case you try to pull some **** like that again.
For those who don't know, Galemp edited one of my posts to say something along the lines of "DURRRR / THE PUDDLES ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES! YOU RUINED FREESPACE FOREVER! / DURRRR"
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Honestly, man...that's kind of the way it sounded on this end anyway. :p
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Creative liberty is one thing, but thick cables or randomly placed puddles don't fall under the category of "creative liberty".
Then what does? No alterations at all? Then what is creative liberty but a sham?
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ZOMG THEY'RE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SHADE OF GRAY YOU SUCK :hopping:
Thanks, I feel loved now ;)
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No matter how trivial an issue seems to you, you don't get to **** in my face like this when I express my concern about it. :mad:
That's funny, my first instinct when I read your post was to defecate all over your face.
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**** you, Galemp. I've got that post backed up on my computer now, in case you try to pull some **** like that again.
For those who don't know, Galemp edited one of my posts to say something along the lines of "DURRRR / THE PUDDLES ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES! YOU RUINED FREESPACE FOREVER! / DURRRR"
I gotta tell you man, Galemp's edit sounds like the exact same thing that I got from your post when I read it.
And mixael, no sense in trying to argue petty issues. Just keep doing what you do, it speaks for itself.
Always remember.
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/7501/1274610275227.jpg)
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FFS guys, I wasn't demanding he make those changes. I just wanted an apology --- which I got, from mjn.mixael, until Galemp went and edited THAT too.
I was perfectly ready to put this issue behind me.
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I don't think you deserve any apology, and quite honestly I think it's you that should be apologizing.
I'd understand this behavior if mixael killed your family, but to denigrate his work over the density of some tubes?
It's not a big truck. Let it go.
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What BlackDove said. Aardwolf, it has been requested for you to be monkeyed over this. I'm not willing to take that step at the moment, but having now read the thread, I think you're being unnecessarily rude here. Disagreeing with mjn.mixael is one thing, being a jerk about it is quite another.
If it were made possible to include more than two mainhalls for a campaign, I could see early versions including an Apollo fighter in place of the Herc, and perhaps even additional fighters cycled randomly as they are introduced.
Multiple main halls (up to 10 IIRC) have been possible for years now.
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I have PM'd mjn.mixael about this. Hopefully we can settle this without any more fuss.
For the rest of you (since PM's are, well, private):
I never meant to denigrate mjn.mixael's work. He's a talented artist, and the Galatea mainhall he's making looks pretty damn good. However, when I got three blisteringly sarcastic replies to my seemingly harmless comment about the cables, I got mad. That rant of mine wasn't about the cables (well, not primarily), it was about the hostile responses.
Edit: It has just occurred to me that maybe some of you (all of you?) read that "**** in my face" bit as me saying mjn.mixael's work was ****, which is not at all what I meant; that remark was in reference to the hostile reaction my initial 'cables' comment got.
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First time I stumble upon this topic, so I might just as well say something now that it's been mostly resolved.
While I don't usually like Aardwolf for whatever reasons, I can't but see this hostility towards him in this topic a bit unwarranted. All he posted was an observation on thickness of cables, that one sentence doesn't translate into a complaint any more than it translates into a compliment. I can't see it as anything but a neutral observation.
Then the rest of you go and open a can of whoop-ass on him, over a neutral observation that everybody just wanted to read as a complaint? Not too long ago I just so happened to comment on mjn.mixael's mainhall renders on irc and said something along the lines of that they seemed colder in colors than retail mainhall. That comment was passed on to mjn.mixael as a complaint and he later asked me about it. I'm surprised that irc conversation didn't turn out to be a crapfest like this, over a simple observation.
Then maybe two days ago, pecenipicek made a bold comment on irc about floor textures and procedurals. That turned out to be a crapfest very similar to this one here. While pecenipicek is known to be annoying sometimes, I'm surprised how quickly mjn.mixael has become like vast majority of community veterans. Touchy and quick to go into defensive about his work.
I don't deny that people really lack the effort to not come across like pricks, but come on, you don't need to follow that example.
Unfortunately this isn't even limited to this particular subject or individuals. This kind of behavior is well spread across the community, me included. There is surprising amount of hostility in this community, enough to break apart most communities. I've had a fair share of my own misinterpretations that have led to various cans of being opened with various results. And to be very honest with you all. I'm tired of it, I really am. Not only I sometimes find myself taking part in those, I very often have to see them happening on these forums and irc too. Even in private boards of hosted projects.
I honestly don't know what to say here anymore. I'm simply tired of seeing incidents like this all over these forums and irc time and time again. This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't really feel like contributing much to this community. Blue Planet managed to light that small spark I had left and results I believe, speaks for themselves. But that spark is no more but a speck of dust. That speck of dust gains in color whenever I see something nice being contributed by other people, be it a new asset, technique or code, but it quickly turns back into even smaller speck of dust when I have to witness yet another fight among two or more community members, who more often than not, are "respectable" community veterans.
I say, look into the mirror and think very carefully how much you yourself contribute into these incidents. Not very many of you can say you don't. There are these kind of people in this community however, and for that they have my respect, not that it counts for much. The rest of you however, could really learn something from them, me included. But until then, shame on us.
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Fair enough, and worth thinking about.
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To be honest, I admire BlackDove for trolling his way to relevance here.
Aardwolf did not deserve most of what was direct at him (though I stand by own commentary that if you can't count that as creative license then what the hell can you?) but on the other hand GalEmp's actions were several times more silly than Aardwolf's response.
That somebody actually requested a monkey over this topic is...hilarously stupid. The moderation here has needed to calm down for a long time in my opinion, but a monkey, for this? What in the hell, people?
If you're gonna monkey the troublemaker in this thread, I look forward to GalEmp being monkeyed because he escalated things so readily.
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To be honest, I admire BlackDove for trolling his way to relevance here.
Aardwolf did not deserve most of what was direct at him (though I stand by own commentary that if you can't count that as creative license then what the hell can you?) but on the other hand GalEmp's actions were several times more silly than Aardwolf's response.
That somebody actually requested a monkey over this topic is...hilarously stupid. The moderation here has needed to calm down for a long time in my opinion, but a monkey, for this? What in the hell, people?
If you're gonna monkey the troublemaker in this thread, I look forward to GalEmp being monkeyed because he escalated things so readily.
and fury's point was miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissed
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I believe mjn.mixael, for the amount of work that he's put into this so far, reserves the right to be dismissive of nitpicking. I believe that 'randomly placed puddles' does, in fact, fall under the heading of 'creative liberty' that he's entitled to.
And I believe that community members should be mature enough to recognize how to choose their battles, and provide feedback in a positive and constructive manner. I am offended and insulted by Aardwolf accusing mjn.mixael, myself, and watsisname of "****ting on his face" when we tell him he's being too picky.
I also believe that that kind of language is not only inappropriate but harmful to the community. I exercised my duty as a moderator, to turn something inflammatory and hurtful into something harmless and gave Aardwolf a warning and the opportunity to correct himself.
I don't feel that I could have done things any better except to bump the problem to someone else, and as a moderator and head of both these projects, that would have been pointless. I propose moving this thread to the Hosted Support forum if anyone has issues with my moderation ability, otherwise we should lock this thread and put the issue behind us.
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I think the issue has been handled fine and there's no need for individual members to wheel out their agendas. Let's just put it to rest.
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While Fury does make a good point, I have to say I'm behind Galemp's views on this one fully.
Lock away.
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I feel like Fury's point is one of the things I like most about this community. :p
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Let's just lock this thread and move on... otherwise we'll probably start debating Fury's points.
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Locked.