Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: The E on September 02, 2010, 05:29:11 am
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Through Belisarius' hard work, it was possible to track down and obtain full permission to use the models created for the (Sadly, no longer active) FS2 conversion for X3. All credit for the models goes to lc4hunter.
Why use these, you may ask? Because they're awesome, even if unfinished.
The models of particular interest for FSU are these:
New Orion:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8505/oriondestroyer.jpg)
Model in Max format: http://www.lc4hunter.net/download/modelle/ORION_body.rar
New Deimos:
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4369/deimos.jpg)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1889/deimos02.jpg)
Model: http://www.lc4hunter.net/download/modelle/DEIMOS_body.rar
New Iceni:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5960/icini01.jpg)
Model: http://www.lc4hunter.net/download/modelle/ICINI_body.rar
There are also other models (Most of them not FS-related) to be found here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=265399 (Warning, german language site)
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I like the new Orion, but I prefer the old Deimos and Iceni.
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Well, there's a lot to be done before these babies can be used in FS2 anyway (Mapping, for example).
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The new Deimos isn't radically different from the existing upgrade, but the other two would be most welcome changes.
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Well I dunno about you, but I think the Deimos is a fairly nice upgrade (and might be an excuse to get it UV mapped as opposed to the one currently in FSU).
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That Deimos and Orion would be quite an improvement over the existing versions; however, the Iceni doesn't seem much more detailed to me than the current MVP model (it was HTLed fairly recently, IIRC).
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What you can't see in that screenshot is that that Iceni has a nicer engine section, IMHO.
And yeah, getting these ships properly UV'ed (especially the Orion!) would be very nice.
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There's a not-half-bad Colossus model there. Unfortunately, all the other models shown have already and in some cases recently been Hi-Polified.
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There's a not-half-bad Colossus model there. Unfortunately, all the other models shown have already and in some cases recently been Hi-Polified.
read the thread, mate
These models are of interest because they may be better than our HTL equivalents.
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As for the Colossus, we already have a model that is much more finished in the pipeline. Ask Galemp about it :P
In addition, the Zeus and Loki featured there are, I fear, not well suited for FS due to the polycount, and it is my opinion that the unfinished Aeolus there is decidedly inferior to the normal-mapped Aeolus we're using ATM.
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Oh, awesome! Good work... now let's get to work... :nervous:
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They don't look that different than the ones we currently have (they were obviously based off the upgraded models and not the retail ones) but since both the Orion and Deimos need UV maps, it's as good a place as any to start.
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Looking at these models, I dunno what to say. They look pure amazing :P
The Orion looks, in a lot of ways, is better than the current HTL Orion (No offense to the HTL Orion's author) and would be very nice in-game. But UVMapping it? No sir, that would be a bad move! Do consider the countless mods that use Orions, as well as those that custom texture them. UVMapping it could be a disaster.
I'm having mixed reactions regarding the Deimos. I can't decide which is better nor I don't see it needing a UVMap. As for the Iceni though, well. One again, its hard to decide which is better, although I do think the X3 one's engine sections are more detailed, so I might favour that a bit more.
Edit:
Heck, there are Sins of a Solar Empire models there too! I dunno about you, but those models would be a great leap for anyone wanting to make a Sins of a Solar Empire mod for FS. Especially love the Trade Port.
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They're all very awesome models - no doubt there, but it does irk me how similar to the current HTL ones they are. A couple of features in some places are definitely better than the current ones, but on the other hand, you're still looking at a ton of work left to do on them to get a very very similar model in-game. The main advantage would be the chance to UV map those that need it as Galemp suggested, but even then, while other ships remain un-upgraded I'm not sure it's worth it. :\
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But UVMapping it? No sir, that would be a bad move! Do consider the countless mods that use Orions, as well as those that custom texture them. UVMapping it could be a disaster.
:wtf:
Yes, sure, don't improve bad texturing of ships because it'd break mods. Mods can either update their textures, copy old orion model or keep using old mediavps. The choices are there and third option doesn't even require as much as lifting a finger.
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Did you notice the new Hatshepsut? It broke the mapping scheme of the old one as well.
The long and short of it is, if your mod hasn't been adapted for the new mediavps version, all you have to do is list an older version as a dependence until it is.
There is no reason, none whatsoever, to insist on retaining a mapping scheme that is utterly inefficient.
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They're all very awesome models - no doubt there, but it does irk me how similar to the current HTL ones they are. A couple of features in some places are definitely better than the current ones, but on the other hand, you're still looking at a ton of work left to do on them to get a very very similar model in-game. The main advantage would be the chance to UV map those that need it as Galemp suggested, but even then, while other ships remain un-upgraded I'm not sure it's worth it. :\
Yeah, these are definitely some of the more popular and heavily featured ships, so I understand the desire to get them up to the very highest quality the engine is capable of, but they are also some of the better looking ships in the current mediavps IMO. When there are already quality meshes of ships like the Hippocrates, Typhon, and others that are basically at this same stage of completion (at or approaching the UV/texture bottleneck), it seems like the modding community could get a lot more bang for their buck by upgrading those more retail-looking ships. They might not be seen as much in the extant campaigns, but if you build it, they will come.
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I am assuming they started with our HTL models and modified them, I'm assuming that because they looks way too similar to have been remodeled from scratch.
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The Orion we currently have looks better IMO.
The Deimos on the other hand... I dig this one a lot, except for the little extrusions it has on the front side pads. Bobb's solution to that area ends up being much more elegant in my opinion.
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I am assuming they started with our HTL models and modified them, I'm assuming that because they looks way too similar to have been remodeled from scratch.
No I think they have been redone from scratch actually - with the HTL ones as a side by side reference probably. Open your orion or deimos in untextured view and compare them side by side. It looks more like the design intent of 90% of the features has been copied, often in slightly different ways, and then there are a few differences that would have been a bit tricky to modify from the our HTL models, but would make sense if he was copying features when working from scratch.
I can certainly tell from comparing the zeus, loki and aeolus that they didn't come from modifications of my models. Besides - the fella's showing a lot of modelling prowess in the other non-FSU ships he has in that thread - there's no doubt in my mind he could have rebuilt our ships from scratch if he wanted to.
I'm wondering why he went to the effort though - if it was just for fun I would have thought it more fun to build your own interpretation of the original [v] models. If instead it was so he could ensure he could use them in a mod then that'd be pretty weird and silly cos it's not like anyone would have refused permission. In fact all he would have had to do was credit the models as having come from the FSU. He wouldn't really even need to have asked. :\
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Well, I think the new Orion is ok, though I do also like the current one. As Orions seemingly have been built and fashioned/remodeled over a course of many, many years, it might also be an interesting idea to try and produce several different "blocks" of Orion - we certainly have enough models of the ship to do that.
The new Deimos is very nice indeed, and seems to cover most, if not all, aspects of the current HTL Deimos that I enjoy.
The new Icieni, at least at that angle, doesn't really look better than what we have now. I wouldn't vouch for it alone (though with any of these, a feature merge might be interesting).
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There's another reason for wanting new htl'd ships.
Texture wise, older models have tons of them, and that makes them inefficient.
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Personally I think this version of the Orion is lightyears better in preserving the "armored box" feel of the original model then the one we have.
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Yeah, it's not a giant cluster**** of random boxes like Bob's is.
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Yeah I'm not going to tolerate such dissing of peoples work like that on a board I'm a mod for. It's just not on. Hades please either remove the above comment and/or apologise. If someone were to say things like that about stuff I'd put tons of effort into, I'd be pretty rightly pissed off, and I expect you would feel the same way.
And besides - what WOULD people be looking for in the ideal HTL orion? I mean we've had heaps of them. Far more than any other FS ship.
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Actually, IIRC, Bob said he made it that way.
But I wasn't saying that it was bad, and I'm not the first to say what I said. I think it'd look a lot less so with better mapping, however.
Sorry, Bob.
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I'm not thin skinned, say what you want.
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A lot of the added detail in these 3 models is just ... meh. I mean, there's no significant innovative stuff, just a few holes here, blocks there, grille thing in the thing...
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I'm not thin skinned, say what you want.
Cool, but even with that being the case; communities which seemingly rip on even veteran's work aren't all that inviting for new modders.
Anyway, I think overall the orion is one of the trickiest ships to upgrade, because it's SO easy to lose the design intent by adding detail. That's why so many of the HTL orions we've seen all look so similar, other than the fact that most of them pinch details from Bobs. :p
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Yeah, that's also very true. It's mainly because most of the new models are modeled in seemingly a similar way, pretty much covering the retail model in more random boxes (no offense to anyone, just an observation.)
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Bleh. We shouldn't have to cover every statement we make with "no offense" ... if someone's model sucks, so be it.
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hence, my response.
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Different people take things differently, so unless you know them well enough to know how they would take it, I would say just tone down the bluntness you might otherwise want to deliver. Also be mindful of how newbies reading the forums would see it, cos I know for a fact that blunt criticism has put some modders off HLP in the past, which sucks. :(
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*grabs hold of thread steering wheel*
I'm going to work on the Orion over the next few days, but only as a side project, as I currently have some primary objectives to complete first. Although I agree the differences are mild, I think the best comparisons will be better made when viewing these models actually in game.
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I never saw what was wrong with Bob's HTL Orion.
Maybe because the first time I saw the Orion it was already HTL'ed and its just imprinted in my head that Bob's is how it should look.
I mean, it shouldn't be our priority to redo things until everyone is satisfied, because it won't ever work out that way...
Sure, it's due for optimization, but other than that there's nothing blatantly wrong with it and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
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well, of course it looks how it should look, I made it after all.
:D
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just to prevent anyone from working on what i work, i'm uv-ing the capshipyard model.
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I honestly never had any beef with Bob's model either, although I think it could have benefited from some better texturing in certain areas.
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I'd personally like to see a line up, in game, of all the standing HTL Orion models in one scene. This might be a better way to illustrate what things are liked and disliked about the given variants.
:)
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I've played FS since the FS demo and I still like Bob's Orion more than any other attempt I've seen, but it may just be the flashy lights. Turrets could use more detail though.
That said, these models are still in the mesh stage, which is pretty early from what I've seen. Lot of work left to finish them up, and they'd have to be a significant improvement to be worth it.
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That posted Loki has a super strong Starcraft II vibe. Maybe it's the way that it's boxy but smooth?
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(http://a.imageshack.us/img37/3386/capshipy0000.th.jpg) (http://a.imageshack.us/img37/3386/capshipy0000.jpg)