Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobboau on September 06, 2010, 08:44:02 pm
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http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/burn-quran-day-sparks-protests-afghanistan-petraeus-endanger/story?id=11569820
another good example of a dick move.
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So a Christian pastor attempts to out another religion as violent by committing a violent act against that religion's holy book.
Wonderful.
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Holy War Hallelujah!
I am kind of confused as to why nearly a decade has passed and now it seems like the mob is all over turning this into a crusade.
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because they don't feel like they are in control of the situation any more.
or that would be my guess anyway.
and as a side note, I am rather personally offended that they are using 9/11 for this too.
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The troops should have joined them in burning the effigy of Terry Jones. That would have done more for American-Afghan relations than anything else and would have ended this nonsense once and for all by making it seem that if you were for Terry Jones you were against the troops.
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The troops should have joined them in burning the effigy of Terry Jones. That would have done more for American-Afghan relations than anything else and would have ended this nonsense once and for all by making it seem that if you were for Terry Jones you were against the troops.
that's a good idea, something I would do.
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The Americans just stole our effigy!
Holy *#$@ they just called an airstrike on our Terry Jones effigy!
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How about instead of just burning one religions holy book, we burn them all?
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This place is less than 5 miles from my house. I'm still debating whether to show up with a posse or fire-extinguisher-wielding moderates. My hope is that the fire department will shut them down before they begin - County Fire has already denied them a burn permit.
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American fanatic pastor burns Quran. Afghans burn effigy of pastor and American flags.
I'd like to put all the religious fanatics in Antarctica together with nothing but the clothes on their backs and play "Let's Demonstrate Natural Selection In Action." I think it would probably up humanity's collective IQ by a good 20 points.
Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
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I'd like to put all the religious fanatics in Antarctica together with nothing but the clothes on their backs and play "Let's Demonstrate Natural Selection In Action."
Better yet put them in a pyramid full of creepy space aliens in Antarctica.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060320202655/aliens/images/6/69/AVP_Xenomorph.jpg)
Love to see how well prayer works against that. :drevil:
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I don't see any stopping them as this is freedom of speech. I do however see normal people getting in there to try to stop it before it starts. Freedom of speech does have consequences when you do something reprehensible like this. And the only consequences being that a lot of people won't like the demonstration; who knows what they'll to do. Vigilantism may be at it's worst here.
If they don't get a burn permit, i won't be too surprised. Who'd want to supply a burn permit to such a showing of hate? Not unless the people giving the burn permit are convinced that islam is evil also.
They'll probably just burn the books anyway without a permit. People will call it violation of free speech when in fact that's not why the burning was stopped.
How about instead of just burning one religions holy book, we burn them all?
I think just a lot of shotguns with people wiping out the religious idiots instead would do a much better job. You just burn the books, you'll have religious idiots rewriting them from memory to fit their corrupt interpretations. I really just don't like the idea that a pastor is a shepherd for a group of people. So many people in religions don't realize it's not good to be a sheep. Even my mother discourages individuality in her christian endeavors.
You have a corrupt pastor, and people who denounce individuality in a christian community, and you'll easily have rise to bull****.
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American fanatic pastor burns Quran. Afghans burn effigy of pastor and American flags.
I'd like to put all the religious fanatics in Antarctica together with nothing but the clothes on their backs and play "Let's Demonstrate Natural Selection In Action." I think it would probably up humanity's collective IQ by a good 20 points.
Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
No the Emperor Penguins don't need that kinda scene, instead send them to the Arctic the polar bears need food.
Think of the Polar Bears!
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That parable with the sheep and the goats always bothered me when we did Godspell as the school musical back in the day.
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Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
Well, Buddhism isn't really all that great. The Buddhism we have here, in the West, is a distilled, non-violent form. In Japan, they beat their students if they cannot answer the riddles that their sensei or whatever presents to them. They're beaten to get their "ego" out of them, and what better way to gain true humility, than to be subjected to physical violence? :lol:
I wonder if the nutjobs who are doing this actually knows the difference between Sunni, Shia, and Sufi Islam. The imam in charge of the project is a Sufi Muslim. One might try explaining that they're the most peaceful kind of Muslims, but they're just Muslims in the eyes of the fanatic. A Muslim is a terrorist, and the troops are soldiers of God who will go to heaven for liberating Iraq and Afghanistan. But the thing is, they don't want the mud-people of terrorist descent to have the same rights that they do, even in America. If they can't even have freedom in America, what's the point in freeing the **** out of them in Afghanistan and Iraq? You'd think the right-wing would seize this opportunity and give their full support for this mosque, as an example of what they say they're fighting for in the above countries. It's all so very confusing! :shaking:
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Well, Buddhism isn't really all that great. The Buddhism we have here, in the West, is a distilled, non-violent form. In Japan, they beat their students if they cannot answer the riddles that their sensei or whatever presents to them. They're beaten to get their "ego" out of them, and what better way to gain true humility, than to be subjected to physical violence? :lol:
Keep displaying your ignorance man. :P Japanese Buddhists are typically Zen Buddhists, and therefore about conciliation. You mean somewhere else, possibly the subcontinent.
(Besides, beating the crap out someone actually is a pretty effective way to make them show humility.)
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Holy War Hallelujah!
I am kind of confused as to why nearly a decade has passed and now it seems like the mob is all over turning this into a crusade.
I firmly lay the blame on the fearmongering by Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. What is sad is that I used to be a member of the Tea Party back when Ron Paul was running it and before Faux News turned it into an ultraconservative fundamentalist hate group.
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an update - It seems that a number of groups, religious and non-religious, will be there in protest to Mr. Jones' fear-mongering. Hopefully a number of Gainesville citizens will show as well... I'll be joining the (peaceful) fray.
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The most pathetic part of all of this is that they are letting the bad guys win when they pull crazy **** like this. The terrorists want to make it seem like we are at war with Islam itself. We need to show that we are not at war with Islam, just with some crazy bastards who believe in a demented form of it, in order to weaken their cause. These idiots are playing right into the terrorist's hands. The government is right when they say this endangers our troops because it will supply the terrorists with more people willing to fight for their cause.
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let me know when the death threats start pouring in, i think it would actually amuse me if something bad happened to that pastor or that church.
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According to Mr. Jones, they've already received numerous detailed death threats, prompting him to not-so-subtly assert his 2nd amendment rights - which is why the Alachua County Sheriff's department is going to the rally, too.
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it would especially be amusing considering how the Muslims are supposedly the ones who need to worry about getting ganked in America.
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Actually I'd far rather see him taken out by a serviceman than a muslim. They've got about as much cause to be pissed off and it avoids the whole religious extremism issue that way. :D
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The Common House Nut, or Homo Insanus flourishes best when growing in an environment that provides lots of exposure. If not provided with such nourishment, they can wither and become unfruitful in a surprisingly short period of time...
Edit: At the end of the day, I seem to recall this Church has a congregation of 30 people? The problem is, when the Media publicise tiny groups of small minded idiots like this, it lets the disparate groups know they are 'not alone' and they start to network. I believe it was once referred to as the 'Parrot Arse Club' effect, by the creator of SomethingAwful?
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Its the sad truth about these matters; the extremists are a pathetically small minority, but the majority of nice people are too polite to be as loud. My only hope is people are able to stop it, or see beyond it and not let it affect them. Couldn't they excommunicate or shut down the church group? The Christian leaders have voiced anger at it.
Best of luck all of those who go to protest; i only wish i could join ya.
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that would work if the guy was catholic, but hes probably a southern baptist which means he has a bat**** insane interpretation of the religion.
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that would work if the guy was catholic, but hes probably a southern baptist which means he has a bat**** insane interpretation of the religion.
Perhaps the best part of the Catholic church is that there is a formal and quite rigid hierarchy. If this was some parish priest going bat**** insane, he'd be on vacation before the week is out.
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Last piece of news I saw indicated the Fire Department had "undisclosed plans" for dealing with the situation. Here's hoping they involve a pumper truck and a water cannon.
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Last piece of news I saw indicated the Fire Department had "undisclosed plans" for dealing with the situation. Here's hoping they involve a pumper truck and a water cannon.
Or at least a severe and extremely localized rainstorm. Perhaps on any and all fires set promptly extinguished.
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Maybe they'll just sic some dalmatians on them. :p
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I'd prefer if they used German Shepherds.
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-09-quran-burning-florida-church_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-09-quran-burning-florida-church_N.htm)
I've just seen multiple news outlets reporting that Jones has decided not to go through with the burning.
... Because he's gotten an agreement that the Muslim cultural center in NYC will not be built on the proposed site 3 blocks from ground zero.
:blah:
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That's the claim, though the organisers say no such agreement has been reached...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11255366
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yeah, well, it's good he didn't follow through, though it would have been nice to see the mass protest against him.
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Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
Don't we have like 4 pages of another thread pointing out that you shouldn't judge the broader group by it's crazies?
IMHO the willingness of just about everyone to do so (Battuta can probably tell you all of the socialogical science behind it) is the cause of more problems than just about anything.
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Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
Don't we have like 4 pages of another thread pointing out that you shouldn't judge the broader group by it's crazies?
IMHO the willingness of just about everyone to do so (Battuta can probably tell you all of the socialogical science behind it) is the cause of more problems than just about anything.
I've come to believe that the human mind is set up fundamentally backwards (and this is actually rather frighteningly well-supported by the data): we settle on a notion that pleases and flatters us, and then assemble all the rationalizations and selective facts we can to support it.
Goes for me as well!
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I want the book burning to happen and people to go ape ****. This would be one of the greatest days for muslims. So many people are going to buy a qu'ran just to burn it. This will drive up sales, and the holy book makers will get more money and produce more to replace the books purchased.
That scenario right there is actually a good thing. That's why i want to see it happen, almost nobody's thinking of it. The people burning the damn book are people who never owned it in the first place. They will show respect to the book by buying it, and then disrespect it by burning it. In reality i wouldn't care, a lot of holy books will be sold and produced. Great outcome for publishers of the qu'ran.
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Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait. In the BBC update a few posts back, he said:
"We would right now ask no one to burn Korans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it," he said.
I know that he never said anything of the sort, but I interpret that as 'we will bide our time and strike at a better oppurtunity'.
And then,
"The American people do not want the mosque there, and, of course, Muslims do not want us to burn the Koran," he said.
"If it's not moved, then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that."
So... if they don't bend to your threat to burn their holy books... they're jackasses?
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i kinda wanted to see the poo slinging in both directions myself. if only to satisfy that nihilistic desire i have to see the world burn.
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"The American people do not want the mosque there, and, of course, Muslims do not want us to burn the Koran," he said.
"If it's not moved, then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that."
So... if they don't bend to your threat to burn their holy books... they're jackasses?
I believe the Pastor's quote there is what legal experts would call "Blackmail"; what an utter d***, pardon my french. Don't worry too much, i think that toilet flushing sound was his little group's reputation going down the drain.
Do you think the FBI would mind, you know, "persuading" his retirement? I imagine many people would apprechiate. ;7
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Burn the holy books. It can spark something good if people oppose it as opposed to getting ass****ed by it. And don't move the ****ing community center in ground zero. I almost couldn't contain myself when the news correctly referred to the community center new ground zero correctly, and the pastor kept calling it a mosque.
Idk why that muslim guy is giving into stupid demands.
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I say that we give them Arabic copies of the bible by mistake.
Seriously, what are the chances any of these ****ers actually read Arabic?
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I say that we give them Arabic copies of the bible by mistake.
Seriously, what are the chances any of these ****ers actually read Arabic?
I'd say there's about a zero to none chance. They'd probably be surprised that Arab Christians exist.
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that would be lulztastic, we must find a way to make this happen.
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Unbe****inglievable. I'm beginning to think the only major religion with measurable levels of sanity among its devout members on this planet is Buddhism. Good grief.
Don't we have like 4 pages of another thread pointing out that you shouldn't judge the broader group by it's crazies?
IMHO the willingness of just about everyone to do so (Battuta can probably tell you all of the socialogical science behind it) is the cause of more problems than just about anything.
A moment of exasperated hyperbole does not a prejudicial blanket judgment make.
I'm pretty well-versed in the reasons we all do it too, seeing as I also have university-level education in both sociology and psychology ;) It's a part of in-group definition by virtue of shared out-group characteristics, as opposed to the traditional method of shared in-group characteristics (define what you are not, in essence). It's actually beneficial because it can bring social groups with otherwise irreconcilable differences together. These are part of the forces that produce so-called "alliances of convenience."
Not to mention, irrational beliefs are part of what make up the definitions of several psychiatric illnesses - one could argue that believe in something without a shred of evidence is the ultimate irrational belief, thus rendering all believers in religion clinically "nuts." :lol: (I make this statement with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
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one could argue that believe in something without a shred of evidence is the ultimate irrational belief, thus rendering all believers in religion clinically "nuts." :lol: (I make this statement with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
I make that statement with complete seriousness.
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I make that statement with complete seriousness.
YES, SO YOU CAN BELIEVE IN THE BIG ONES. HONOR, DUTY, TRUTH. STUFF LIKE THAT.
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one could argue that believe in something without a shred of evidence is the ultimate irrational belief, thus rendering all believers in religion clinically "nuts." :lol: (I make this statement with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
I make that statement with complete seriousness.
it'
The thing is, the believer may have their own evidence. It may not be convincing or acceptable to anyone else, but it's still rational for them to take it seriously.
Let's say that the FSM actually appeared to you while you were alone in the woods, taking you for a wild noodly ride through the stars before depositing you back where you started. Naturally, nobody else would believe your story... but as far as you can tell, it happened to you. You sensed it. It is completely rational for you to believe your senses. You'd also be rational to doubt them, but it would be irrational to discount them completely out of hand. Especially if it happened again, or you got a letter the next day saying "Thanks for the fun trip. Peace! -FSM".
My point is that not all evidence is empirical or meaningful beyond the person who experienced it, and that it is perfectly rational for people to believe in that kind of evidence too... even if, in fact, the whole FSM experience was actually the result of someone secretly putting special mushrooms in your breakfast omelet, or even if you are actually just nuttier than a constipated squirrel.
The point is, rational and crazy are not opposites, or even mutually exclusive.
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Schizophrenics are rational now?
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They're the experts of their own world i would say.
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Not to mention, irrational beliefs are part of what make up the definitions of several psychiatric illnesses - one could argue that believe in something without a shred of evidence is the ultimate irrational belief, thus rendering all believers in religion clinically "nuts." :lol: (I make this statement with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
Yet, didn't the relativity theory have no shred of evidence either?
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Not to mention, irrational beliefs are part of what make up the definitions of several psychiatric illnesses - one could argue that believe in something without a shred of evidence is the ultimate irrational belief, thus rendering all believers in religion clinically "nuts." :lol: (I make this statement with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
Yet, didn't the relativity theory have no shred of evidence either?
No; relativity was rapidly and dramatically verified experimentally.
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The point is, rational and crazy are not opposites, or even mutually exclusive.
It's all rather fuzzy anyway. To be 100% rational you'd need to be 100% dead emotionally, to make sure emotions never interfere with information processing. So a 100% rational human would probably seem (in a way) "crazy" to our eyes.
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we usually lock up or execute those kind of people.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
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It's funny... all of this talk about how people form their point of view and rationalize around it sounds surprisingly like an old boss of mine. It was crazy day every day at the office. Totally impossible to understand or keep up with.
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/11/new.york.jones/index.html?hpt=T1
Jones: "Not today, not ever."
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
as long as they don't hurt any one they are just considered freaks.
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stumbled upon this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4XJQO3
I'm think most people will find they agree with it, even if they have a momentary negative reaction.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
From what I've been taught, it's not about a person's emotions but their thoughts that could make them psychopathic. Many people are apathetic, but few if any are manipulative.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
From what I've been taught, it's not about a person's emotions but their thoughts that could make them psychopathic. Many people are apathetic, but few if any are manipulative.
Empathy, or the lack thereof, is actually considered a strong factor in psychopathologies. Empathy is in many ways a cognitive tool.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
From what I've been taught, it's not about a person's emotions but their thoughts that could make them psychopathic. Many people are apathetic, but few if any are manipulative.
Empathy, or the lack thereof, is actually considered a strong factor in psychopathologies. Empathy is in many ways a cognitive tool.
But expressing empathy is not a determining factor. Were that so, you'd see large portions of the population thought of or declared psychopathic when there is, in fact, no serious psychosis.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
From what I've been taught, it's not about a person's emotions but their thoughts that could make them psychopathic. Many people are apathetic, but few if any are manipulative.
Empathy, or the lack thereof, is actually considered a strong factor in psychopathologies. Empathy is in many ways a cognitive tool.
But expressing empathy is not a determining factor. Were that so, you'd see large portions of the population thought of or declared psychopathic when there is, in fact, no serious psychosis.
Logic failure. You assume that the fact that empathy is a strong factor in diagnoses of psychopathy means I'm stating it's the only important factor. Reparse and reconsider.
To quote an '08 abstract,
Recent advances in social neuroscience suggest a link between empathy and the mirror neuron system (MNS). Impaired empathy is one of the core diagnostic features of psychopathic personality disorder.
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Yea. I wonder, does the lack of empathy automatically make one a psycopath in action, regardless of the range of mental capacity of other sorts.
From what I've been taught, it's not about a person's emotions but their thoughts that could make them psychopathic. Many people are apathetic, but few if any are manipulative.
I guess, if enough systems get "shut down" patients cease being a threat. But a person with strong urges and desires, but no emphatic capability.. sounds like a problem.
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as long as one of those desires is to not go to jail then they'll probably not be a problem.
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as long as one of those desires is to not go to jail then they'll probably not be a problem.
So long as one thinks they will go to jail. Desiring's got nothing to do with it.